Does he have a girlfriend???

why did you come asking for advice? i feel that you are asking for what you want to hear.

No, I want real advice, not preaching! calling me a stalker is advice????

i said what you are doing is considered stalking here. i did not call you a stalker.

Well, same difference. I think it is perfectly normal to search for a few clues. I didn't go to his appartment (don't even know his address, coz I didn't try to find out) to check out his car. So I don't see when by behavior could have been considered stalking. He gave me countless clues as to where I could find him. I never acted upon them, because if he wants to see me, he should say so.
But I can't act as if I was indifferent. Besides if I had found something, it would have helped to move on. So I almost wish I had, but there was nothing, so I was still clueless. Yet, enough is enough. He had some excuses until now, but not anymore.

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pimprenelle said:
...if he wants to see me, he should say so.

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Pimpernelle, I think you gave yourself the best advice so far. Having dignity means that you do not go through such lengths to get somebody to ask you on a date.

Thanks. Well, I still feel I did what I had to do. At least I can say: hey, I tried.
Pride is a tricky thing. It can help but it can also mess it up. I never stopped thinking I had dignity. Luckily.
Let's put it that way : I am fed up.
Since he seemed changed, I put him to the test one last time, you know, to help ending this stupid game one way or another (didn't ask for a date, merely for a small favor you would ask a mere friend). He blew it. OK, that's it. Was the last chance. The rest is his problem. Right ?

Exactly.

Hi P.

I'm sorry to see that you have suffered with this situation for so long. It felt to me like a negative thing from the start, but only you could make the decision to end it.

Sometimes we stay with unsatisfactory things because we don't have what we really want, I know that I have done this in the past.

If you feel like PMing me, please do. I may be of some help having been around the block so to speak (and having a guy's perspective).

Good thoughts, Myzen

Thanks ! I just sent you a private message.
I think this guy may fall into the category : "Fuis-moi, je te suis. Suis moi, je te fuis" = Run away from me and I will follow you. Follow me and I will run away from you). How pathetic is that ? If I am like that one day, I will know I have really messed up!!

Actually, some guys want girls to flirt to them. Maybe he's one of them. He even said that he wanted a girl to take the first move. Yeah, I think he's trying to make you feel jealous to keep the romance alive.

I agree. But 8 months is pretty sadistic.
Well, I played along. I may be what is called in France a "bonne poire" (a good pear meaning : too soft and too sweet).
Well, I have turned sour, coz the situation was rotting.
Thanks for your opinion. It is always great to have also a man's perspective!

And don't be too hard on yourself for your reactions. As Piggy says, some guys just enjoy the flirtation and game playing with no intention of getting seriously involved. Actually, I think there are some people (men AND women) with "radar" which allows them to identify those of us who might be susceptible to their games. It also occurrs to me that this man might be a bit of a misogynist.
Seeker

I believe you are right. He actually told me he was a misogynist. But would you believe that if somebody told you ? I thought real misogynists don't go around and say they are. When I told him I didn't believe it, he seemed relieved and said I was right. How odd is that ?
Now I start wondering if in fact he doesn't have a woman in each city. The story of the *****y secretary doesn't sound as preposterous anymore (she said he had a girlfriend but that he neglected her). She may hate me and want to get rid of me but that would fit the misogynistic picture so well (everybody else said that he was a single, but what does that mean ????). On the other hand no woman at all, ever again, fits the picture just as well and explains a lot too.
And have you ever met someone who told you he was alone that evening, at home, and when I said he shouldn't neglect his girlfriend answers in a very provocative tone he should go to her then, shouldn't he? He always makes fun of me. I always feel a hidden agressive feeling behind it.
His best friend said he had a lot of female clients because he was single, but he wouldn't elaborate. When I said to him I was a bit shocked by what I heard, he seemed very cross at his friend and said that he never lied to me (when he said that he was single or when he said he had a girlfriend???). Weird. He then told me this story about his ex who left him years ago and he was so GLAD she did.
The more I think about it, the more twisted it gets. He has definitely issues with women. I just wonder how ugly the truth really is. As a lesson I guess.
Do you make any sense of such a weird behavior???? I don't. How can you not feel stupid ?

You know what. That just reminded me of some guy I dated in the past. His girlfriend left him after 6 years or so because he didn't commit. He was alone in his corner, going out with buddies, ignoring women. As soon as he was with me, he started flirting with very woman at the office. Probably a way to feel free, unattached. When I noticed this I stopped seing him.
He was always guarded. It was probably more of an infatuation than love.
So of course I wonder if it's not the same here. If I am not a specialist of those cases. But I am not enjoying any of this so I don't see what could motivate me to look for that. I am too patient. That's true.
What made me think of this old story is the fact that this one said he "imagined me as a painter, an artistic person". The other one always said he was imagining a lot. Daytime scenarios, you know. So of course, this made all alarm bells ring (more than the girlfriend story!).
On the other hand, the other one wasn't exactly romantic. This one seems to be. Don't ask me why. He thinks a man has to take care of a woman. That's very old-fashioned but I thought it was sweet.
I am trying to find a pattern but it is not that easy. Is it the same ? Hence : will it be the same ?

My first therapist had the following advice for me:

"When somebody tells you that they have a bad habit about something, believe them".

I would apply this advice to his statement about being a misogynist. Don't question it -- if he believes it about himself, then it might as well be true. Never try to change somebody -- we should fall in love with people as they ARE, not who we think they COULD be.

Easier said than done, I know.

So, Pimp...my intuition was right (for a change!) in suspecting that this man has a disdain for women in general. When you described how caring he seemed to be about family members, yet no evidence of a committment to a female partner, some red flags went up in my head. I've actually know a couple of men who devoted loving and loyal attention to family and even friends, but the "special" woman in their life is a doormat, treated like %#@&#!. His taunting, making fun, and setting up scenarios for humiliation are truly the sign of a misogynist.
Seeker

Yes you are both right, but I must admit I was surprised at his reaction when I said I didn't believe him. He readily admitted that he did it to drive people away. He said :"Why did you insist?". He was pretty puzzled and he didn't seem to realize that he had encouraged me otherwise, which is amazing, coz it was pretty obvious!!! Except to him. He then said his friendliness had been unconscious, as if that made it less real!! On the contrary in my opinion. He apologized.
But then he went back to his jokes. He is humiliating to drive me away. That is obvious to me, but as soon as I go, he is nice, caring and completely the opposite.
I think his statement "I am a weirdo" comes from other people's reaction. He must have heard it quite a lot with his stupid games. In the beginning that was my opinion as well. I could be wrong here, but I think he has given up because he is convinced that sooner or later he will drive anybody away. I felt sorry for him when he said "I am happy alone with my daughter!". I do hope his daughter will never disappoint him. He has put so much on her shoulders that if she goes away for her studies or job, his whole life will crumble down. He must think that the daughter is the only female creature that will never disappoint him. It is his choice. He has to live with the consequences.
I do think the misogynistic attitude is partly authentic (to get even with women), partly a wall he built around him. So I don't judge him on that.
My defense attitude is smile and indifference. A friend got pretty angry once and said to me : "Do you want to sell something ?". I liked this friend and I suppose I was afraid of getting hurt. So I guess, it doesn't really show when I feel hurt, which encourages others to go on with their silly games (it takes 2!)

That being said, I don't accept it even if it a defense mechanism. After all, I don't want a man who considers me a threat to his well-being, his way of life.
I never tried to change a man. I never tried to change this one. I didn't buy it, that's all. I still don't, but that's not the point at this stage. Right ?

Hmmm... where to start.

I think it's doing to be darn near impossible to you to ever figure out by speculation whether or not this guy has a girlfriend. He's already fed you so many contradicting stories that I, for one, would be hesitant to believe anything he ever said to me. My dear, that's game playing and I'm never one to get involved with anyone who plays games. It's just too much of a hassle in my book. You don't much seem to mind, though, because you have played along for 8 months. Now let me ask you this... if he has played games with you for 8 months and you've yet to have a first date, if you were to finally get that date and then another and then fell into a relationship with him, what kind of relationship would that be? I'd bet my bottom dollar that it would be a relationship that followed the same lines as the "courtship." Do you want to be in a relationship with someone like that? Many people have a ton of awesome qualities but one or two that make them not worth the trouble. Game playing and lying are two of those bad qualities that will end a relationship at the drop of a hat for me. He's obviously lied to you because of the contradicting stories he's fed you. I guess what I'm trying to say is that IMHO, this guy isn't worth it. There are just too many red flags. Why is he lying? What are his intentions toward you? That's another one that's damn near impossible to figure out.

If you don't mind what's going on, or you're willing to put up with the hassle, then go on with the charade. If you want that date with him, I'd be incredibly direct with him... and honest. I'd say something along the lines of "Look, we've been playing games for 8 months now. I'm obviously interested in you, but you keep giving me the run around... the hot and cold treatment. So here's the deal. I would like to go on a date, but only if you're single and interested. No more games, no more BS, no more 'I'm not interested but want to let you down easy' or whatever it is that you're doing. If you're just not interested, then say so. If you have a girlfriend, then say so. Otherwise, the game is over." By doing that you're not only telling him your exact intentions, but you're making the first move in a bold way... which is what he said he likes. Give it a whirl.

This is all just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth. I'd never have spent this much of my time and energy on something like this. But we're not talking about my time. We're talking about yours. Good luck with this. Let us know how it turns out.

Ry

Hey thanks. That sounds very convincing.
Yes too many lies. I actually stopped all contact with him. He seems pretty angry but I don't care. I made it very clear that I wanted more, that I wouldn't accept a girlfriend etc... But since I played along for so long, he had no reason to believe I would really quit the game. So I actually did it this week. I cancelled all my appointments at his working place and I won't show up anymore.
He is a compulsive liar. He doesn't think twice about it which explains the wild contradictions. Yes, a relationship would have been tough I guess.
Thanks for your advice!

Hey, no problem. That's what we're here for. I think you're making a wise choice. Take care and good luck.

Ry

Thanks!
Yea, I have been very patient but he just ran out of excuses. We all have our limits.

It is really hard not to care when you "meet" him on the road.
Good thing I am angry. It helps!! He noticed I didn't pay attention anymore and that I was mad at him. First he seemed angry. Last time he stared and stared at me. The funny thing is he is probably as puzzled by my behavior as I am by his. Life is strange. I am not the only one who's been driven crazy by this silly game of his. Why do people play games if they are unhappy with the result ? At least, I feel better not having to go to his working place anymore. I just wish I could have told him what I thought of his game playing.

Hi everybody,

I thought I should keep you posted! You helped me a lot with your advice.
Today, I am over the hill and even though I still meet this guy I am now the wiser.
I told him a few months ago in a note to leave me alone with his disrespectful behavior and I didn't see him for a while and when I did he was pretty angry but left me alone. At last!!!! He even went to great length to avoid me. I have never felt that important in a twisted way.
He even thought about what I said! I am organizing an exhibition and he went to see it last week and took friends along whom he told about my pictures. The week after that he went again with other friends and he told me he loved my work (I believe that. I know his tastes). Yea, well thanks. Boy, was I surprised ! I wondered if he had some temperature.
I joined their group after a while and he mentionned the note about his behavior so I explained to him what I meant. He apologized and said he didn't mean harm but this brand new friendship is a bit fishy to me.
There was a very sweet girl in the group who turned out to be his girlfriend. They both told me that it was over between them (they broke up it seems around the time I wrote the note but it may very well be a coincidence, Christmas time being a typical braking up period). He told me about his brake up with a big enthusiastic smile maybe hoping that that would attract me (well, I was just talking to her about his behavior) or trying to be provocative (to get even with his ex). The poor girl was clearly hoping for a reunion, but he got drunk (obviously trying to escape any discussion) and he talked to me the whole evening (I felt a bit embarrassed, he didn't even look once in her direction). She doesn't live here and he didn't really seem to care about her in the past year even though he planned to buy an appartment with her (he plans a lot). They broke up right after making those fantastic plans (I suspect she dumped him because he didn't show enough interest).
This is amazing, don't you think??? His behavior doesn't make more sense than before. He is on friendly terms with me now but I am not sure I want to keep contact at all. The last note made quite an effect so maybe I should once again state clearly that now that he is single (if they don't go back together), it doesn't mean that he can play the same game with me than he played with her.
She said she had to wait, in love as in friendship, for him to come along and sometimes to force him a little bit. Didn't do her any good so far, did it ? He can't stand criticism at all (very low self-esteem). He is a great friend according to his male friends and some of his female friends but I am not sure I should risk any kind of relationship with him. Even though some things seem to have changed in his behavior towards me, which really amazes me, I wonder if it isn't too good to be true. He always tried to keep me around. He still does without risking anything. On the other hand, he seems still jealous about my friendship with his best friend and I guess he doesn't want to suffer again like he did.
His ex-girlfriend said to me : "he will never change". Towards her or in general? Should I wait and see if his behavior has really changed or should I just avoid him as I did in the last 3 months ? It is tricky. Usually I don't give second chances but my behavior may have been suspicious to him as well (best friend).
I saw him today in front of the supermarket. He didn't come over (snow storm) but he smiled and was very friendly. I am very very suspicious, you know, given his past ambiguous behavior. It is rare enough for people to evolve but has he really or is it just temporary and superficial?

Is he really the kind who needs soft bullying ?

At the same time I wrote him a note, I wrote another to his best friend, telling him that I had no intention of interfering with his relationship to his girlfriend and that I didn't appreciate some of the things he said. It also had quite an effect but he is much more self-confident. We are very good friends now but he didn't come to my exhibition. You can't have it all it seems.