Remember me and admin guy?

butterflylady, I didn't cause this "kind of upset".

I just started a thread about something happy that happened to me.

People who responded to my thread caused the upset.

Let's not go off topic on this thread. The original topic was that I'm happy I got a hug from Dr. Bob.

> Dr. Bob is not a predator!

You don't know him at all.
For what it is worth, I agree. But...
You don't know him at all.

A lot of people have history with sexual abuse, Deneb.
A lot of the time children are sexually abused and it starts with being hugged and being brought alchohol and things like that and it progresses to sexual abuse.

I guess you don't know. I guess you never really thought about it but for someone with a history of that how do you think they are going to feel when they read you talking about it every single day?

Oh yeah thats right - happy for you.

Jeepers.

I've stopped reading your posts because I can't take them any more. One person gets blocked for saying x and other people don't and all you can say is 'I love you for your faults Dr Bob'.

Jeepers.

It is hard to be someone's friend when the friendship is all one way.
Do a search of your posting names and see how many threads YOU start vs how many of other peoples threads you post to.

Me me me.

And it was pretty clear this was going to get out of hand like the last ones. But drama means a lot of responses and now we can cry to Dr Bob about people being upset with him.

Jeepers.

as you can tell i'm not happy

I WONDER WHY?????????????

do you have any idea?

but of course you thought i'd jump on this thread...
come to your defence...

You need to think about this idealisation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

You don't look at his faults
You don't properly acknowledge his faults
You focus on the nice qualities you project on to him
You focus on those
You work yourself into it
You intensify the feelings
You block out anything else
You affirm those feelings every day

You don't moderate those feelings.

And one day you will think of him
And you won't get that magic buzz.
Or you will wonder what on earth all the fuss was all about.
Or you will feel a little ill.

And then disillusionment will kick in.

And then...

Rage and hatred.

The trouble with idealisation is that it leads to devaluation and rage once you perceive the object of your *love* isn't worthy or whatever.

A block could be the thing that flips the switch.

You can work on having a balanced view now...
Or...

It is a well documented phenomenon.

Sorry Deneb...

But I need a break.

I can't believe you sometimes.

oh honey...you need to take a good look at yourself.....

So does *everyone* hate me now?

I see that I'm not good enough.

I recognize that I need help in the empathy department. At least I'm acknowledging that supporting others doesn't come naturally to me.

Am I like Lou now?

Cannot be accepted?

i should have specified.....that was directed to you greenleaves

I'm not very good at making friends, if you haven't noticed.

Yes, I have problems. Personality problems. Am I the scum in the pond now?

Does that mean people can be mean to me?

I accept you no matter what you do special k.

Apparently you don't.

Am I supposed to force myself to reply to people I don't have feelings for just so you will like me more?

It takes time to learn to be empathetic.

Do I have to hate someone just because my friend hates that person? Can't I be friends with both?

I know I like attention (online, not in person). I know I'm dramatic. I acknowledge that. I love it when lots of people read my posts. I love it when lots of people reply to my posts, as long as they are saying what I want to hear.

I acknowleged I'm not a very good human being, so there, is that what you want to hear from me?

I'm trying to slowly change myself, but it's not fast or good enough.

i'm sorry my post sounded harsh.

take a couple deep breaths.
do you really think i hate you?
can you remember some of the things i've posted to you?
can you remember some of the times we have chatted?
can you remember me saying anything hurtful or mean?
take a couple deep breaths.
do you really think i hate you.

i love you deneb.
you mean a great deal to me.
i've stuck by you since i've known you
and i'm not planning on withdrawing my support just yet...
;-)
i'm not going to turn on you.

but...

i posted out of anger too.
i'm sorry for that.

deep breaths for me.

you aren't scum.
you didn't do anything wrong in telling people that bob hugged you.
but you have been asked not to talk about him on these boards...

kids start out with an egocentric world view
they think they are at the centre
the world revolves around them
insofar as they ARE the world
then as they grow older they discover their needs are not
(can not be) met on demand.
that is a hard time... a hurtful time...
THE WORLD ISN'T FAIR!!!!!
boy do i rail at that at times...

but our parents love us
and they show us how to cope
and they show us skills for coping with
the obvious disappoitments in life

and some people have a hard time learning that
because their needs weren't met
and that is harder to cope with
because their emotions / distress was much more intense
and that is harder to cope with
because their parents didn't model healthy ways of coping with the distress
and the distress is harder to cope with

but it is something that people need to learn.

i understand that real life relationships can be hard
people do hurt and let down and disappoint
people do have their own needs and that means they can't always focus on our needs on giving us what they need
and that can be a hard thing to cope with
and i get this push pull thing where i push people away because they will disappoint me because they have disappointed me
and i pull people because i long to be closer and because i long to feel more connected with them
and i vaccilate
and sometimes i need the person to just get the hell away from me
and sometimes i need them to be closer
and real life relationships can be hard

and then there are ideals...
there are ideals that we can fall in love with
and we can kind of come to terms with minimal input from a person
indeed because there is minimal input there is so much for our interpretations and our projections

and there is something in that
and i understand.

but as i have said if you foster the ideal
what happens is that you will swing to disillusionment
it is like how if you focus on the negative things
really focus on them your distress is worse
if you focus on the ideal really focus on it
then the let down is only going to be more painful

i know it is hard...
but a balanced view... is more likely to turn to long term caring
whereas falling in love with an ideal... leads to a short term high
and a long term fall
and some people fall into these patterns in relationships
over and over and over
they meet someone and they think they are wonderful
the perfect person and they will save them
and then the person does not live up to expectations
and they ignore those aspects trying to retain the ideal
and all of a sudden the good feelings go and then disillusionment kicks in

that is why it is important to foster a middle ground.

you are self focused.
but then... a lot of people are.
i can be quite self focused too lol.
;-)

there is a difference between TALKING
and DOING

but how are you supposed to know if people don't teach you?

it is hard. sometimes i look at myself and i don't really like what i see. sometimes there are things that can be hard to face up to.

YES you deserve to be happy...
but you deserve to be happy through your life
not intense high now and intense low later
vaccilation... vaccilation... through your life
YES you are a wonderful person
i think you really are
you can be wonderfully supportive and caring at times
you can
you can be wonderfully empathetic
i think that people with borderline personality disorder...
scrap that...
i think that people with intense emotions
people who have to learn how to manage those
i think that they have a gift in the sense that...
once they have learned something of it
they have more capacity to empathise with others
BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW IT FEELS
but it takes time.

yes sometimes you should post caring responses to others whether you feel caring towards them or not
why?
because it is possible to act ones way into feeling different.
how so?
because if i post a caring response to someone who i don't know
they might respond
thanks for that
and you know what? then i feel even more favourably disposed to them.

so yes you should do that.

this is hard.
i understand i had to learn the hard way
and i think i should be more gentle
i should be a lot more gentle with this
and i'm very sorry but at this point in time
i don't know how to be.

this will hurt a little.
did you get to go to the babble meet last time?
did you want to go?
a lot of people wanted to go but they couldn't go
it was impossible for them to go
and it is hard for them when people come back from the babble meet
and talk about having met and say things like 'now we feel so bonded' and 'this changes everything'
because they feel left out.
they feel left out.

and your posting about it every day...

is hard for people.

and people who have history of sexual abuse...
where that sexual abuse started with what is referred to as 'grooming' where the person offered a lot of hugs and brought the kid alchohol and stuff...
that is a hard thing to cope with
and when you post about him in a way that is idealised where you focus on the qualities you have projected onto him
when you say you love him you love him you love him
it can bring back memories of abuse
and people worry for you and people feel mistrustful of bob for (what may be seen as) fostering those feelings in you
and it brings back memories of abuse
and people feel worried for you
and when they think of their lives...
they feel sick

so when you post every day about your bob love
that is hard for people

and you don't know this.
i understand that you don't know this.
how are you to be expected to know
if nobody tells you?
so i'm letting you know.

i'm not trying to manipulate you
or cajole you
into working on your idealisation
into working on your posting style

i'm going to use an i statement
this is about how i feel

when you post a lot about how much you love bob and how much you love him for his faults as well, when you post a lot about him hugging you

then i feel...

worried for you (because of my history of abuse)
nauseous (because of my history of abuse)
left out (because i couldn't go)
mad (because i feel like bob turned on me)

and when did he turn?

he blocked me while he was at the babble meet deneb.

he knew i wasn't going to aprove of the hugging...
because i'd talked about that already
about how he couldn't go around doing that
because we would lose respect for him if he did.

seems he disagreed.
and he blocked me for saying x
while he didn't block others for saying things that were comperable
he didn't read my posts charitably
he won't converse with others...
he won't converse with me...
about why he did that.

and you can't face that because of your ideal...

and so you see now our issues really do clash...

but i'm letting you know how i feel.

just so you know. just so you know that that is why i (and others) have a hard time reading about your bob love...

and why others may be mistrustful of what he did... of what he is doing... of what the ***** he is up to.

instead of talking about it...

maybe it is time to... just do it as best you can
and trust...
trust...
trust people enough that they will notice that you are noticing
they will notice that you are...

trying to help other people because of how they feel

and not expressing your feelings
expresssing your feelings

with little regard for the feelings of others.

clash of the issues and stuff...
but there is a lot of hurting people in the world
and sometimes...

it is about meeting them half way
half way

for every new thread you start
one reply
(just as thoughtful)
to another

that is meeting people half way deneb

do you think that is too much to ask?

i do care about you.

hunt through the archives for my past posts
if you doubt me.

I'm sorry special k, I lashed out and posted bad things. I lost it a little.

I'm still trying to write a meaningful reply to at least one person a day.

I thought you hated me. Sorry I think in black or white.

I really truly didn't know that my talking about loving Bob triggered abuse stuff for people. I'll try really hard to cut down on my bob posts.

I'll try to not idealize him. I'll try because i see now that I've hurt people as a result of my idealization.

I'm sorry I wasn't more supportive of you when you brought up the inconsistencies.

I'm sorry I posted about my experiences on the trip in detail. I thought people wanted to know the details. I wanted to include people by telling them all exactly what happened. I didn't really bond with anyone on the trip at all. There wasn't any special bonding going on, not that I know of. I just know that I felt a little left out during the last trip. I wanted people to tell me everything about the trip. That is why I went into so much detail.

> I'm sorry special k, I lashed out and posted bad things. I lost it a little.

It's okay. I've been known to do that myself...
For next time...
Even for this time...
(Apparantly)
;-)
It can be helpful to phrase things in terms of how you feel.
So...
When you say xxx I feel.
Kind of like when you said xxx I felt bad about myself.
Or when you said xxx I thought you were trying to make me feel bad and so I felt mad with you
That kind of thing...
When you said xxx I thought I must be a bad person.
And then we can try and talk it through.
It is hard.
It's a skill...
One that goes out the window for me when I'm upset
Sigh
But I'm working on it.

> I really truly didn't know that my talking about loving Bob triggered abuse stuff for people. I'll try really hard to cut down on my bob posts.

Yeah. I find it triggers me. I suppose I shouldn't really speak for others. But maybe it makes sense of why people tend to jump to the notion that there is something sexual. Maybe it makes sense of why people tend to jump to the notion that there is something unhealthy / obsessive. Why people jump to the notion that it isn't so good... Because people are concerned about you (little them) and worry that you are giving him too much power... Worry a little about whether he will use that power for good or for harm... For people who have been harmed... I guess they aren't so trusting with that.

> I'll try to not idealize him. I'll try because i see now that I've hurt people as a result of my idealization.

It isn't just about other people. It is about you as well.
Because...
I hate to go here...
But what if you do get blocked for something you don't understand?
Thus far... You have come to understand your blocks.
But what if you do get blocked for something you don't understand?
Something that the community doesn't understand either.
Then how are you going to feel?

The way you currently focus on the good qualities...
It can be helpful to focus on the good qualities
It can be a nice thing to let people know that you appreciate them.
It can be PARTICULARLY helpful to focus on the good qualities when you start to feel upset or disillusioned with the person.
Sometimes it can be helpful to think about the negative qualities too.
Nobody is perfect and everybody has faults, human imperfections, things they can work on to be better.
Thinking about those things can help moderate the idealisation to keep it in check.
Just about balance.
If you have a balanced idea
Then you are less likely to swing to the negative (painful)
extreme.

> I'm sorry I wasn't more supportive of you when you brought up the inconsistencies.

You were supportive to me. But then you seemed to put them out of your mind and focus solely on the good qualities so you could retain the ideal.

> I'm sorry I posted about my experiences on the trip in detail. I thought people wanted to know the details. I wanted to include people by telling them all exactly what happened.

Yeah. A lot of people like that. Some find it hard, but some want to know everything that happened. I think it is fine to do that. Sometimes... People don't get what they want and they need to work on managing their own emotional responses. It was nice to hear about it. It does help people to feel more included.

But every day... To hear references to it every day...

And Bob love too...

It is nice to appreciate people
To let them know you care

But I think it is about having a more realistic idea of them.

I also think... While real life relationships can be hard...
Boards are most helpful when we generalise back
Rather when we use them to escape / avoid RL interactions.

Don't let bob love blind you to people IRL
To potential relationships and friends IRL
And to potential relationships and friends on boards too.

I'm sorry I hurt you.

I guess I'm pretty self absorbed at the moment...

this is abit off topic, GL you say you want to be supportive but some times don't know how, okay has your chance. My family lost a very dear loved one yesterday, she was 91 yrs old, we can't pay our respects because she's being flown to CA , honey I need your support
Love ya
Angie

Jeepers, who wouldn't lash out when this many people attack you? It's sad, IMO. How we react to her posts is up to US. She doesn't incite riots. These are a result of PC posters reactions. We are all responsible for our own posts. If you don't like/agree with her posts...frankly that is your issue. She still has a right to post here, there or anywhere.

And can we PLEASE quit the Babble bashing? I used to engage in it myself, until I experienced PC bashing occuring at Babble. It really hurt, and I learned my lesson. It VERY rarely occurs there now.

GL's feelings are her own to feel. They will be sorted out over time. No one can tell her to feel differently and expect that to actually work, right?

I really wonder why her feelings have many people so up in arms. Are they protective of GL? That doesn't seem so since so many were also mean to her here. So what is it? Anyone want hugs from John? From your T's?? I dunno. I just don't understand the animosity in this thread.

em

> GL you say you want to be supportive but some times don't know how, okay has your chance. My family lost a very dear loved one yesterday, she was 91 yrs old, we can't pay our respects because she's being flown to CA , honey I need your support

Er... The answer isn't contained within the question...
The problem doesn't contain it's own solution.

If someone says 'i don't know how to do accounting'
and you say 'here is your chance you can do my tax returns'
then that doesn't show them HOW to do it.

I'm sorry you lost a loved one.

angie.......... i'm sorry, sweetheart........p

I just have one question. If all these people are so happy at babble why come here to post? I mean don't you get support over there? just curious because I refused to register there.

Sorry about your loss Angie.

I hope you find some way to pay your respects without actually being there.

Please everyone, this thread is turning into a nasty thread. I think its important to remember that we are all individuals. From the little that I am aware of, Greenleaves is in the process of figuring herself out?! I think there was a time that we all went through this and some of us are still actively going through this process. Why such anger? In reading Greenleaves posts, I agree, she has an obsession with this admin guy, But, why do others care so much that her thread has turned into a war. I was reading some of her posts and it sounds like she has come far, yes? The direction this thread has taken has gone in all the wrong directions. Who cares? So she has an obsession with admin guy. I have a great fondness for the man who gives me my coffee in the morning. he reminds me of my dad . Maybe, I love him, I would be very sad if something happened to him. For someone who has opened up to everyone on these boards and said, I have trouble with IRL relationships and that online is her most frequent form of communication it does not suprise me that she feels happy to talk about him! It is really not much differnet then therapist discussions, and if I was limited to my IRL communication I'd bet I would talk a lot about the man who serves me coffee. Let her be happy. We are all differenet and we all need different amounts and different types of support. It sounds like greenleaves is trying to learn how to communicate with others and at the same time is managing her feelings well.

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bebop said:
I just have one question. If all these people are so happy at babble why come here to post? I mean don't you get support over there? just curious because I refused to register there.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

There are good people on both sites.

ok gl

Greenleaves, ty for caring, I know deep down you know how to be supportive of others, you just need to forget how desprate(sp) you get in needing friends, just being a friend gets you friends
Thanks again , where trying to set up a memorial service for my hubbys Aunt