[C-Bass]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post..I finally decided I need to hear other peoples view on whats been bugging me for so long. Thanks to all who read and take the time to reply.

Here we go...I have been dating this girl for 4 months now and when we first started dating I was head over heels in love with her. One night we were hanging out and something was on TV that somehow brought up the conversation of our "past". When asked about my past I bluntly said "I dont want you knowing my past or me knowing yours, nothing good can come of it, the only thing I cant deal with is if I have a girlfriend who has a history like this slut I knew in high school, She circle-jerked 4 guys in grade 9".....right after I said that my girlfriend tells me..."well, I had a similar experience but it was 3 guys and we left our clothes on...there was just touching and kissing, no orgasms or anything like that and i didnt touch them"

I find this hard to believe, what girl wants 3 guys to just "touch her" at the same time....what do 6 hands do down there that 2 cant?...I find it even harder to believe you can find 3 guys who just want to kiss a girl and rub her vagina at the same time 2 other guys are and not get anything in return...especially when they are in their 20s and alll sexually expeirenced...seems very highschoolish and odd....i just find it hard to believe that, that is all that went on. ....why bother telling me she did that literally seconds after I called the other girl I knew a slut for pleasuring 4 guys at once. she claims she "needed to get something out of her system....I have been asked to "Tag team" a girl with different buddies on numerous occaisions...but always said no cause easy girls just disgust me.


It took me a while to decide if I wanted to try dating her or not...and I gave it a chance...for some reason I find that anytime we have sex the thought of this experience goes away for a bit...but then we started going 1 or 2 weeks before having sex again and I kept thinking "what did they do or other guys do that im not doing" .... to be honest she has no ambition when we are having sex....anytime she is on her period she bluntly says...."sorry, we cant do anything for a while" ... I would go down on her and give her oral and she never seemed to return the favour...we would just go into sex....I told her that I have needs and asked her if shes afraid or grossed out with giving blowjobs...she said no.....its been 4 months and I have yet to receive one aside from a tiny bit of action to get me up before sex...I have been going down on her alot...ill admit I like giving her oral so its not like I feel like im doing a chore or anything....but we started fighting cause I said I cant get these images out of my head when you barely want to touch me except when we have strictly sex....I have not encountered a girlfriend with a sexual past like hers and also never encountered a girlfriend who wont "help her guy out" the odd time while shes on her period. all the other times she says shes tired from work or not feeling good....but she always felt good enough to go out for dinner to restaurants and eat crappy food...I feel like shed rather eat then have some intimate time with me.

Am I selfish for feeling this way...I find i forget about her past when we have sex...but then we go right back into a drought and fight over the same thing....the last time we made up she told me she talked to her mom for advice...and even her mom agreed with me and told her I have needs and she needs to address them.....everything was all lovey dovey again the last time we made up...but we are right back in the same hole...Ive told her at least 5 times I am sexually frustrated so its not like she doesnt know whats been bugging me....I just dont know anymore....I cant put a ring on someones fingers whos had a threesome... I know she said it was just touching....but I just cant believe it...and when she tells me shes a nympho when we first had sex I was somewhat put back but excited at the same time.....yet we havent had sex more than once a week.....this is the most confused I have been with a women EVER!...we have a trip to new york coming up and I really need to make a decision before this trip as wether or not to stay with her. She said I could even ask her friend if i wanted...but to be honest...shes her friend..shes gonna back her up no matter what...and not to be rude...but I wouldnt trust her friend anyways...she had a boobjob so she could work at hooters and collect good tips...I have no respect for any women who modifies their body for a financial gain or for attention from multiple men.....im really stuck....help

[HeartTornOut]

I hope I'm not going to come off rude here, but the answer to this is pretty simple. If you can't get over something she did in the past that had nothing to do with who she is now - then you need to end it. All you're doing now is stringing her along for your own gain when your heart's not in it. You already said you won't put a ring on a finger of a girl who's had a three-some - so why are you still with her? Are you afraid of being alone? I think you need to end it, not only for your sake - but for hers as well. Good luck!

[Trippin2.0]

Agreed. You believe she had a 3 way no matter what she says, and you admittedly will continue to do so. What's the point of this relationship knowing it will lead nowhere? End it.

What kind of girl ? The kind that is exploring life and her sexuality. Figuring out who she is, what relating to people means to her, and oftentimes, it is someone who wants acceptance at any cost .

What kind of person would find her value lessened by something like this ? What exactly does this say about her to you that makes her less than? She, aside from that, is still the girl you took interest in, right ? Has anything about her diminished simply because of this one experience ?

You know, if a male is out there "conquering females", or has such an experience as she did, he's a stud. If a female does the same thing, she's a slut. This doesn't make any sense to me. It is bias. It's short sighted. It is also shallow. As this factor about her past doesn't, in essence, reflect on her value [in toto} whatsoever. A woman is not a sex, or a gender….she is an entity, sexless.

You, yourself told her you didn't want her knowing about your past….why ? Is there something there which is similar…worse ? Is her past somehow less palatable for the mere fact that she is female ?

Why would you call a female a slut ? "Easy" girls disgust you ? Wow.

Maybe it's because you are feeling insecure about your desires not being fulfilled that you resent her. Do you help -her- out when she is on her period ? If not, why should she help you out when she is on her period ?

You said * I kept thinking "what did they do or other guys do that im not doing" * What makes you think any of what is going on has something to do with " other guys" ?

"Not -feeling good- " in the context of sex, is not comparable to going out to dinner. I mean come on….sex is an emotional, physical, and spiritual exchange. it isn't like walking to your car, and sitting at a table for dinner. One often requires emotional, physical, and spiritual energy to engage. Or, I do anyway. I mean sure, a quickie is fine sometimes, but, I can go for hours on end, and prefer it that way, but I cant do it all the time. So I don't see how leaving her abode to eat food is relative ?

Who is her mom to say that her daughter needs to "address your needs" ? This is a private matter. This is essentially a mum saying her daughter needs to give you head ? What ? This blows me away. [no pun intended] . Any sexual act is a gift, not a chore. So, "needs" to give you something? Uh….I think not. This isn't the dark ages. Women are not here to service you…change your oil. They aren't -objects-. They are divas, goddesses. And I feel as strongly about men ….if attributable to the individual.

Maybe if you had a different attitude, it'd be her mission to please you in every way she can conjure. I found that in one relationship there were loads of things I -wouldn't do-. I see now…it wasn't me…it was him. I went on to a different relationship, and there was NOTHING I wouldn't do to please my partner. But, I was inspired. He encompassed everything there was to beckon such a response.

If you can't put a ring on a persons finger because of their earlier exploits in self-discovery, self-actualization…perhaps she should fly off to another love anyhow…

You have no respect for a woman with a BREAST ALTERATION ["boob-job" purposefully omitted] ? Have you any idea what pressures society places upon women to be a particular creature in order to have self-love ?

Do her a favor…end it now so that she can find someone else….someone who actually LOVES women. Because you, sir, ...do not. You see them as objects, tools, and things to be controlled and use to satisfy your own ego/agenda. Women...and men for that matter are universes .

Edit: If you want her to be more prone to satisfying you during her period...satisfy her... put a few towels under her bottom and use your hands. [orgasm diminishes cramps and are very intense during this time] Feed her chocolates, massage her uterus, give her a warming pad. Treat her like the queen she really is, and you won't be able to get her off of you. Eventually she may want to reciprocate. I would/did. You can do this for her whilst she is doing the other for you. And if you think that's not worth your time and tenderness......well, leave her to it.

I am just reading a lot of self-pity here.. and it's all over nothing. Her past has nothing to do with you. Nope, not ever. Just as yours has nothing to do with her. If you can't get over her past, then as the other said, leave her. I don't completely think this is the issue tho, as you've admitted you forget about it until you don't have sex for a while. Why is that?

And sex.. she doesn't have to do one single thing that she doesn't want to, and she doesn't owe you anything or be made to feel obliged. How about moaning less, less demanding this that and the other, and perhaps giving her some space to breathe, romance her and she may, just may feel like pleasing you more. Nothing is a promise, but you'll probably have a better luck with kindness than whinging. Sorry.

[C-Bass]

Can i please get an answer from nother guy....

and my sexual history consists of 5 women...4 relationships...one 1 night stand....hers ...15 guys..... I do not think its unfair to excpect a blowjob when im putting pout in that department constantly.....If any of you girls gave a guy head and wanted the favour returned and he never did...for 4 MONTHS...you cant tell me you wouldnt feel the same way.....and yes..Easy girls do disgust me....Women do not have to put any effort in to find sex...They can literally walk up to ANY guy ...ask to have sex...and easily 60% of them will say yes right away.....guys...we need to put effort into findng sex (if thats our only goal).....i dont care what anywone says....there is a difference between a slutty guy and a slutty girl when the chance of the opposite sex turning you down for sex is unbalanced....its a fact

[C-Bass]

Yes her mom also did say this....because her mom knows I am the one always driving to see her and putting the effort in last boyfriends never did like drive 5 hours to meet her parents...or go to wedding showers etc etc etc....she said no past boyfriend ever did that stuff with her and im trying to make a point of it.....she also talked about giving blowjobs to a guy she "wanted to keep around cause she liked him" but he left her...does she not like me then?...this is what I mean by "what did the other guys do that im not" do I have to become an asshole like past guys in order to get some oral returned?...and no i dont thinnk women are sexual objects...if they were I woulda had those threesomes myself...if you all think im an asshole for wanting oral in return when Im always putting it out then maybe I came to the wrong website....or maybe i need to hear from another guy ...we live an hour apart....I drive up 3 times a week to her 0....she works in an office and she admittedly doesnt do much all day....I work midnights in a labour intensive job....I relly do go the extra mile to try and make it work....but when all my effor is ignored how is any guy not supposed to feel like this......women....leave your sexual past IN THE PAST

[Turtleboy]

you should totally watch chasing amy

[C-Bass]

am I the only one who thinks its a little lopsided when a women can go up to 3 randon guys and ask them to go in the bedroom with her and they all say yes....but if I asked 3 girls the same thing Id probably be lauhed at...makes perfect sense

[LostNAngry]

I agree with the rest...save yourself and her the time and heartache and call it quits. You don't love her; if you did her past would not effect the way you feel about her. It seems as if you are insecure with yourself or you have a jealously problem. Maybe its time to take a break from relationships and figure out who you are as a person and what you want out of a girlfriend/wife/lady. Quit living in her past....its not getting either of you anywhere.

[Dionysius]

Seems to me that C-Bass wants a girl that (in his mind) can only be turned by him, he doesn`t like to think of her with anyone else. If this is the case he would need a virgin so that she has no-one to compare him with. If one can`t live with a woman "with a past" then the relationship will be beset with problems, but almost everyone has a past so all relationships won`t work. Accept her for who she is, otherwise end it, (just one opinion, mine) hope I have not offended.

meh, if one is brave enough to 'have' an opinion...some will be offended. I agree, personally

Yes, you are being selfish.

Quit playing games.

Break it off.

You manipulated this woman into giving you information about her past.

She was honest about it.

Now you want to hold it against her.

You're coming across as an insincere creep.

Grow up.

And, in the future don't ask a woman for information you are not yet mature enough to handle.

[C-Bass]

Originally Posted by Dionysius

Seems to me that C-Bass wants a girl that (in his mind) can only be turned by him, he doesn`t like to think of her with anyone else. If this is the case he would need a virgin so that she has no-one to compare him with. If one can`t live with a woman "with a past" then the relationship will be beset with problems, but almost everyone has a past so all relationships won`t work. Accept her for who she is, otherwise end it, (just one opinion, mine) hope I have not offended.

Far from true...the 15 guys on her iist doesnt bug me at all...its the random encounter with 3 guys...if she wanted to start making more intimate memories with me...instead of telling me about her past ones more often then we have sex...maybe I coud get over it...but when she contatntly tells me she loves me and wants to be with me forever...but doesnt wanna have sex after telling me shes a nympho....wtf am i supposed to think?

[C-Bass]

Originally Posted by Pfrog

Yes, you are being selfish.

Quit playing games.

Break it off.

You manipulated this woman into giving you information about her past.

She was honest about it.

Now you want to hold it against her.

You're coming across as an insincere creep.

Grow up.

And, in the future don't ask a woman for information you are not yet mature enough to handle.

read my post again...then repost...she brought it up after i told her neither of us should bring anything up even when I knew she would have a longer history....if she didnt have a real "threesome" why bring it up at all and put it in my mind....then tell me she used to give blowjobs to an ex who treated her like **** and she only did it to keep him around...yet she tells me Im the nicest and most caring person shes ever met...and still talks aboutpast ex's more often than we have sex....am I really a creep for feeling this way given the effort and time im putting in

after hashing it outon here...I think ive made my decision....defending my post after most of you just scanned it rather than read it hasmade me bring up many points about our relationship that shows me its just never gonna work if she wont show me she loves me and is over her past flings

BTW that treatment for during cycle is pretty much a .......quote from a dear...friend. And no, nobody can have his phone number.

[smilinside]

Everyone makes good points and I especially agree with Lux et spes. As a woman, I can say there's no faster way to turn me off and end any chance of getting sex by complaining that you're not getting enough. That really just doesn't get my motor running.

The truth is very simple. Personally, I feel you are being highly judgmental and superior, as well as sexist. But even so, if you can't accept her as she is, then there is no future in the relationship. In today's times, I doubt you will find a pure virgin, but if that's what you truly want, then that's what you should seek.

You aren't doing either one of you any favors by staying together. You cannot respect her for the person she is, and if you can't respect her, you certainly can't love her. Set her free and let her go on her way to find a man who can appreciate her for all that she is - and isn't. And set yourself free to find what you really want.

[~Christina]

Wow.. Ok I just waded through this entire thread ..

Outstanding advice given as always !

I will make this short and sweet .... You have been dating for 4 months that is a very small amount of time. Apparently you have issues upon issues when it comes to having an adult relationship.... I hope that you find a way to educate yourself and realize how selfish you are. She deserves better.

Good luck

If the issue is sex not often enough, this is an entirely different matter. This I understand. I need to be properly matched regarding sexual appetite. This doesn't detract though from anyone. It is a feature of my perceived needs. But the mum being involved and some of your other statements re: head, being owed, and feeling a person *should be* .....anything, are an entirely different matter. Plain and simple, you are poorly matched, and need to really enlighten your self in the matter of love, bonding, friendship and and their components in general. Sexual/relational constructs of any value simply fly well beyond some of what concerns you. I know you're getting blasted, I am sorry that you are...but tbh, you need a wake up call. Otherwise you have a revolving relationship issue, and become a misanthropist. How old are you? I mean you have to be really young.

Listen...sit back...and pretend we are talking about your sister, or any female for whom you genuinely feel warmly. Also...imagine this is someone whom you are surprised to discover......., is writing about a relationship with her.

[Dionysius]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

Far from true...the 15 guys on her iist doesnt bug me at all...its the random encounter with 3 guys...if she wanted to start making more intimate memories with me...instead of telling me about her past ones more often then we have sex...maybe I coud get over it...but when she contatntly tells me she loves me and wants to be with me forever...but doesnt wanna have sex after telling me shes a nympho....wtf am i supposed to think?

Now I see what you mean! I really hope you two can sort it out, cliche time: you can`t beat the love of a good woman. I`m just glad I`m past it!! Good luck.

Originally Posted by Lux_et_spes

What kind of girl ? The kind that is exploring life and her sexuality. Figuring out who she is, what relating to people means to her, and oftentimes, it is someone who wants acceptance at any cost .

What kind of person would find her value lessened by something like this ? What exactly does this say about her to you that makes her less than? She, aside from that, is still the girl you took interest in, right ? Has anything about her diminished simply because of this one experience ?

You know, if a male is out there "conquering females", or has such an experience as she did, he's a stud. If a female does the same thing, she's a slut. This doesn't make any sense to me. It is bias. It's short sighted. It is also shallow. As this factor about her past doesn't, in essence, reflect on her value [in toto} whatsoever. A woman is not a sex, or a gender….she is an entity, sexless.

You, yourself told her you didn't want her knowing about your past….why ? Is there something there which is similar…worse ? Is her past somehow less palatable for the mere fact that she is female ?

Why would you call a female a slut ? "Easy" girls disgust you ? Wow.

Maybe it's because you are feeling insecure about your desires not being fulfilled that you resent her. Do you help -her- out when she is on her period ? If not, why should she help you out when she is on her period ?

You said * I kept thinking "what did they do or other guys do that im not doing" * What makes you think any of what is going on has something to do with " other guys" ?

"Not -feeling good- " in the context of sex, is not comparable to going out to dinner. I mean come on….sex is an emotional, physical, and spiritual exchange. it isn't like walking to your car, and sitting at a table for dinner. One often requires emotional, physical, and spiritual energy to engage. Or, I do anyway. I mean sure, a quickie is fine sometimes, but, I can go for hours on end, and prefer it that way, but I cant do it all the time. So I don't see how leaving her abode to eat food is relative ?

Who is her mom to say that her daughter needs to "address your needs" ? This is a private matter. This is essentially a mum saying her daughter needs to give you head ? What ? This blows me away. [no pun intended] . Any sexual act is a gift, not a chore. So, "needs" to give you something? Uh….I think not. This isn't the dark ages. Women are not here to service you…change your oil. They aren't -objects-. They are divas, goddesses. And I feel as strongly about men ….if attributable to the individual.

Maybe if you had a different attitude, it'd be her mission to please you in every way she can conjure. I found that in one relationship there were loads of things I -wouldn't do-. I see now…it wasn't me…it was him. I went on to a different relationship, and there was NOTHING I wouldn't do to please my partner. But, I was inspired. He encompassed everything there was to beckon such a response.

If you can't put a ring on a persons finger because of their earlier exploits in self-discovery, self-actualization…perhaps she should fly off to another love anyhow…

You have no respect for a woman with a BREAST ALTERATION ["boob-job" purposefully omitted] ? Have you any idea what pressures society places upon women to be a particular creature in order to have self-love ?

Do her a favor…end it now so that she can find someone else….someone who actually LOVES women. Because you, sir, ...do not. You see them as objects, tools, and things to be controlled and use to satisfy your own ego/agenda. Women...and men for that matter are universes .

Edit: If you want her to be more prone to satisfying you during her period...satisfy her... put a few towels under her bottom and use your hands. [orgasm diminishes cramps and are very intense during this time] Feed her chocolates, massage her uterus, give her a warming pad. Treat her like the queen she really is, and you won't be able to get her off of you. Eventually she may want to reciprocate. I would/did. You can do this for her whilst she is doing the other for you. And if you think that's not worth your time and tenderness......well, leave her to it.

Right on!!!!!

Curtsies

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

If any of you girls gave a guy head and wanted the favour returned and he never did...for 4 MONTHS...you cant tell me you wouldnt feel the same way.....

I can. I fellated my (now ex) 2nd husband for years. When we had sex for the first time after I was resuscitated on a ventilator (several days on a ventilator in ICU, mind you) following a suicide attempt that was a very close shave, I fellated him for, literally, hours - our older daughter came to sleep in our bed on that night, so we did not have a bed for sex, so we went into our older daughter's bedroom, and her bed (the cheapest narrow twin bed from IKEA - imagine how firm and sturdy that is! and how accommodating for two adults!) was not fit for intercourse, so he sat on the bed and I fellated him, and then we went onto the wooden floor, and I continued, and changed positions again and I continued, and on and on. For hours. And I never got tired. As you said, giving her oral sex is not a chore for you - so do not complain then! Do not expect favors in return - you said, YOURSELF, that is it NOT a chore for you. OK, great, so not a chore is not a chore and stop the pity party!

I do not give blow jobs, at all, and why would I? I am a physically lazy person who hates chores and who has trouble with running a dishwasher and doing laundry on a suitably regular basis. So no, I am with you - I hate chores. I really do. No question about that. And that is why I do not give blow jobs, or, speaking more generally, do not do any sexual "jobs" for anybody.

But if I have overwhelmingly strong feelings for a man, then I can fellate him (the difference between a fellatio and a blow job is that a fellatio is not a JOB), on my own initiative, frequently, passionately, and, in the case of said 2nd EX H who had very loud orgasms and whose whole body sort of got distorted in that final moment of the climax, I experienced "empathetic orgasms" (this is my own coinage and I am not sure it makes sense, but I will try to explain) in that I would join him in the experience. So, it was unbelievable. And also, it changed my state of consciousness - the fellating itself. So fellatios are expressions of physical love - not "jobs".

If you are expressing physical love, do you really expect anything in return?

My 2nd H gave me oral sex (from which I could not come) may be... 5 times over 12 years together. He just was not into it. His hand was superb beyond belief (I still do not have vibrators, at age 42...) so I had tons of manual orgasms, but oral sex was not his thing.

And I do not hold any grudges (I mean, I very much do, but not a propos of unreciprocated fellatios - he turned my children against me and did many other nasty things, so I am not happy with him, but I do not regret fellating him as I was expressing the feelings that I did have for him at that time, and expressing them authentically, so I have no regrets).

That was an admittedly long-winded but hopefully RELEVANT answer to your question. And, you mentioned 4 MONTHS !!!!!

And I did it for TWELVE YEARS!!!! And never felt the way you feel.

[hamster-bamster]

PS Lux_et_spes REALLY gets it. I mean, she REALLY does - sorry I posted before reading her response. So, she uses the EXACT word I was groping for - "inspired".

Fellatios are inspired.

Blow jobs... are jobs. It is fine - we all need to do some kind of a job and there is no way around it unless you are independently rich - but, a job is a job. And an inspired work is not a job.

Also, as a woman who could get hired at Hooters without surgical interventions, I can tell you that I fully support women who do undergo surgical interventions to work at Hooters. How is that THAT different from wearing a uniform if you are in the army? How is that THAT different? It is a type of a uniform. That is all there is to it. Except that a soldier can take the uniform off, whereas implants are worn on the body around the clock. But other than that, no difference - it is an alteration of appearance to qualify for a job per job requirements set up by the employer.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

am I the only one who thinks its a little lopsided when a women can go up to 3 randon guys and ask them to go in the bedroom with her and they all say yes....but if I asked 3 girls the same thing Id probably be lauhed at...makes perfect sense

Well, I do not know - have you asked 3 girls and failed? is it based on experience or pure conjecturing?

I can tell you this. I have not had sexual moresomes (but plan to, eventually, with several men, not out of an interest in being penetrated in unusual ways or any of that stuff, since I, in general, do not have that much interest in the genital aspects of sex, but out of an interest to explore the dynamics of relating to those men and seeing the dynamics that would be sparked between them), but when I was in 4th grade, several boys - I do not remember the actual number... probably 4, but they were all my classmates, next door neighbors, buddies, and friends, mind you, and not some kind of older sexual perverts) - locked me in a room and all started to kiss me. I did fight and got out, but, truth be told, I liked it. So that kind of tells me that it might be a good thing to be locked in a room with several guys...but, it was not a sexual moresome - it was exactly as I described, nothing more and nothing less.

...can you, for a second, entertain the possibility that your GF was freaking truthful and told you exactly what happened, nothing more and nothing less? Can you give her a little respect and just believe her words and not spend days picturing something else - something other than what she described?

I also very much agree with Pfrog in that the information the GF provided was extracted from her in a manipulative fashion. As such, it is a "fruit of a poisonous tree" and should best be forgotten.

I do however sympathize with the plight of a man who works long hours doing physical labor, does try his best giving oral sex, and does not get his needs met. That by itself is well worthy of compassion.

Now comes the most important point of this post that, hopefully, does not come across as a diatribe.

The most important point is:

"PLEASE stop being so freaking arbitrary. Please do. This is so annoying when people are arbitrary and do not see that. It is just... well... not something that makes my day."

You said that you had a one night stand. And you know, I have not! I have never ever had a one night stand. Never! Never ever! So I am far purer than you are - far purer. And far more capable of forming long lasting attachments. And... and... well, just better - I am just, simply, better than you are. Better on all grounds and on all counts. I am better than you in that you had a one night stand and I have never had a one night stand. OK?

Do you see that one can criticize YOU for your one night stand just as you are criticizing HER for her more-than-one-guy-at-a-time experience? It really is horrible that you had a one night stand. It shows that you are a shallow person unable of deep relating. Shame on you!

Do you see where I am going with this? Saying that an experience with more than one guy at a time is somehow UNUSUALLY HORRIBLE BEYOND ANY REASONABLE MEASURE - this is what you have been saying - is exactly akin to my saying that having a one night stand is UNUSUALLY HORRIBLE BEYOND ANY REASONABLE MEASURE.

The unifying factor is that you are being arbitrary in viewing her experience with more than one man, and I am being (jokingly, as I hope you can see) arbitrarily "chastising" you for your one night stand.

If you take time to think about it - for one second, as that would be enough - then you would see that there is nothing extraordinary in what she did.