Attitudes towards women.

Er... I'll give this a shot?
First, disclosure:
After the initial post I didn't read any of the others.
sorry

I've gotten the impression that if there is any kind of bell curve regarding "typical" expectations, conduct or communication style amongst dating females, I would like fall far to either end.

I might agree with this, depending on the day, how honest I am being with myself or anyone else and how hard Special Snowflake Syndrome happens to be manifesting at that particular moment.

That said...

I've pretty much always been really, sometimes shockingly, honest with people.

It gets mixed results, but usually gets me where I need to be eventually.
But that doesn't mean that I am not very protective of myself.
i can tell someone that I am really attracted to them, drawn to them, even that I might be falling in love with them [a lot of the time I don't know until i turn around and realize "wait I have actually BEEN in love with them for some time"]... but then again, maybe I haven't even been in love yet? [ok let's not open that can of worms....]

But I can also express that I need to have some sense and logic about the whole thing, that I don't agree that like, exverything should be sacrificed for this notion of love.

Just because I get a tingly feeling whenever I talk to someone, it doesn't mean I can trust them implicitly and I make that perfectly clear.

Trust, dependability, communication, understanding [not always the same as communication], enjoyment and tolerance of eachother, ability to support and BE SUPPORTED by one another, knowing how to say what you need and find out what the other person needs...

That all takes time. Lots of it.

So you can throw out there that "WOW YOU KNOCK MY SOCKS OFF" but you can also hold back at the same time and be smart about passion, which may seem impossible.

So, you don't have to be stand offish. At all.
But it's harder to get hurt when you understand that, no matter what the Beatles say, Love is not all you need.

When you start to grow up, it's not.

And having been through a long term relationship that didn't work out already, s4ndm4n2006, you probably know that.

but I'm saying it for everyone who just throws all they have at something because they feel starry eyed, over and over and over.

Then feel heartbroken. over and over and over.

If you have questions, ask.
if you have doubts, give it time.

Don't hide your feelings, but don't let them control your destiny.
That's how you get lost.

From what you say, OP, it seems like you are much smarter than being constantly yanked around by women who are not genuine or who want to hide behind "oh I didn't know you felt that way".

Also... I've pretty much always done the "build intimacy by way of friendship first" thing.
It seems to work out so much better.

RE: girls like bad boys.

Most bad boys are so much less intelligent than they think they are.
Also, they think they can get more by taking advantage of people in a negative way- see? stupid. "bad boys" are mildly entertaining for a time.

The good ones are worth more than gold.
Women who don't understand this probably don't have their priorities in order.

Most of the ones who do, in my experience, know when you are putting on a show as well.

I don't know if I can really add much to this conversation, but I want to say that I'm very similar to you only my reaction to guys is:

"Oh my God, he was nice to me, treated me like an equal and a person, AND he acts like he cares what I have to say/listens to me?! I must marry him. NOW."

And as soon as something goes "wrong", I get extremely upset and depressed. And possibly even self-harm.

I'm very glad that you don't react to that extreme….

I also wanted to say (like it hasn't been said a million times in this thread) please, please, please don't change yourself. Why? Because more guys should be like you. You know, the whole being nice and actually caring about the girl? Guys being mean is why I'm so emotionally f—ed up. I mean, I expect it now. My expectations are so low that just treating me like a person that matters will probably make me develop a crush on a guy. And yet, I'll still expect to be treated like trash and if I am, I take tally of all the reasons I deserved it. So for goodness sakes, don't be mean.

Also, one question: somewhere on this thread you mentioned coming on too strong (or something similar to that…I can't find it now). Do you mean in an emotional or physical/sexual sort of way?

Maybe just let it go for now. Put your energy towards something else.

Just dont be mean be yourself. You like someone, show it

thank you for your reply...

To be honest I've thought a bit about this, i remain feeling like I need to be at least a bit controlled more than I am emotionally but yes, I agree with everyone that I am who I am... Not gonna worry too much about it.

By coming on too strong, I mean emotionally, definitely do not breach the physical barrier or sexual one with a girl very quickly at all. I mean i may comment on how pretty or cute she is but no. Shoot the more I like the girl, the harder it is for me to actually think of her sexually before she's mine officially, it's like a mental block....

and the "omg she paid attention to me, I MUST MARRY HER" is kind of what I think if I don't keep myself in check too. hahahaha. I completely understand.

I still think you're relatively in control of your emotions, but that's compared to me where everything becomes life and death immediately and for no logical reason. I'm sure we both could be more in control of emotions…I just don't know how without simply squashing any feelings that I'm attracted to someone immediately or just not pursue it at all and keep it in my imagination.

yes here I am again. But these are serious questions. >.>

Ok so from multiple people, primarily other single guys, they've sid time and again to stop letting myself fall into the spell of women that end up flirting and then when I fall, I fall flat on my face as they step out of the way. I know that this is 99% my own fault because. well. EMOTIONS! Being BPD, I suffer from many things that makes it hard to avoid this.. but I need to.

So... they say to stop caring so much about the attention you get and not to let on that I'm really interested. Some guys and one of my friends said that even being "mean" works. well. truth be told, I can't see myself going that far but what of this casual attitude? Is that true? Does that make women more attracted to men? I would never outright treat a lady badly but even just being a bit more relaxed about it is very difficult for me.

Something I realized though. I thought about this and tell me if I'm accurate here. Being interested, and not showing it so passionately or so openly is not necessarily being disingenuine? I always have a battle going on in this area, in that I've always thought that if I wasn't quite such an easy "catch" for them they might take to chasing me more but at the same time I'm at odds with it because I've always felt I would be being deceitful. I have fought for so many years as a submissive type person that goes along with everyone, to find my own way so it's hard for me to go against the natural way I am. Does that make sense?

Anyway I'm just wondering, especially from the ladies, is this more attractive to women, for a guy to just kind of "not care"? That is without being rude or cocky.

Just curious.