[PapoPez22]

I met my boyfriend 4 years ago. Since the very beginning, he told me he had a huge student debt and several money issues. I'm not a materialistic person, so I decided to overlook this fact and, actually, even tried helping him a bit with his student loans.

Later on he moved to NY to pursue his luck as a musician, and we spent 1.5 years apart during which I also helped him sending him money here and there to get by. I was accepted to a school in NY and, as soon as I saved 10k to make the transition, I moved in with him, agreeing that this was the best way to split the bills and expenses. But then he decided to quit his job and collect unemployment to give another shot to his music career. Since then, we have had a lot of money arguments because all of his projects and risks to make a living have failed, and his student loans have doubled for lack of payments.

I know that he literally doesn't have money and some people have deceived him with promises they haven't kept, but I can't put his financial weight on my shoulders. I'm a struggling student with a part time job that pays me enough to pay my bills alone, I have goals in mind, and having my life and financial matters in order is very important for me even though I'm disorganized. To this day, he owes me more than $5k (because he rarely ever pays me back). It makes me incredibly mad and resentful that I have to use my hard earned money to pay for his rent as well, even though I know he is struggling immensely... but I'm tired of promising myself that this is going to be the last time, of hearing his plans to pay me back that never happen and of hearing his carefully-chosen words or his extra nice behavior to manipulate me into bailing him out. I feel like I can't trust his word, or respect him, or even see a future with someone who's situation hasn't changed in 4 years. And still, I'm broken into thinking that I'm not a good girlfriend for refusing to be there when he needs me. Every time we talk about this, I'm made to look like I'm making this about money and that I'm greedy. I feel incredibly trapped and powerless because I can't talk to anybody about this.

Right now I'm debating on whether paying all of our rent yet again, or paying my part and telling the landlord to keep the deposit because I'm moving out.

What should I do??

[Little Lulu]

It sounds like you already know what you want/need to do but having the courage to do it is another thing. You will need some support to make any changes in your life and this relationship.

[lilypup]

I had a friend who stayed in a situation like this. She lost MUCH more than 5K. I'd run as soon as you can. The poster above had a good idea about therapy.

[PapoPez22]

Ugh… I know what to do, I just feel trapped. On one hand, I can look at the big picture and see that this is not what I want for my life, or my future. I’m not an ambitious person but with small steps and hard work, I’ve been able to grow professionally, financially and academically. It’s true that I’ve been lucky with some opportunities that I’ve been given without asking for them,… but I can’t understand how he hasn’t been able to get his life together for the past two years since I moved here.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for him because I can see him struggling… some of it has been bad luck, others have been due to bad decisions. He tends to be a dreamer, not basing his views on reality, and then things don’t turn out as he expected and I have to “pay” for it. Last time I gave him a verbal ultimatum, and he said “we can even sign a contract, this is the last time I’m going to ask you for money and I will pay you back by september”. I didn’t do so because it’s cold and insensible to reduce a relationship to a signed piece of paper. But september is here, he didn’t pay me back the last amount of money I lend him and he is asking me, yet again, to pay for his share of the rent, at the last minute, when I have no other choice.

I haven’t even kept track of all the money I have given him out of good faith, trusting that he will pay me back someday. But now I feel like this piece of paper is necessary. Should I do it?

[~Christina]

He is only "struggling" because he knows that you will go ahead and just pay the bills . Why? because you have in the past ...

You already know what you need to do .. Put that love aside and look at it with logic ..He not a responsible person when it comes to financial matters and has made many many promises that he has yet to keep, do you really want to proceed down this dreary path with him.

[hvert]

I'm sorry you're stuck in this mess. I think you need to cut your losses and run. A signed piece of paper isn't going to do you any good -- it will cost more to enforce than it would to just accept that your 5k is gone and stop spending anymore.

Can you evict him and get a roommate who pays the rent?

[SnakeCharmer]

Darling, he's not struggling. He's playing while you struggle. As long as he knows he can fall back on you, why should he do boring things like get a part-time job to help pay the rent.

Why he's the way he is with money is not important at this moment.

What you're going to do and how you're going to do it are the more important questions.

You know what you want and need to do and that's to stop paying his way. First off, you can Just Say No (thank you, Nancy Reagan) to paying his loans, credit cards and whatever other debts he runs up. Practice saying it. No. No. No! NO!

I bring up the Just Say No campaign because it was aimed at steering young people away from drugs. Well, is there any drug stronger than love? And feeling needed? This guy has been able to sweet talk you into giving him money against your better judgment, so practicing saying no may be an important skill for you.

You need a place to live and if you live in NYC that doesn't come cheap. Not paying the rent, even if he doesn't have his share, would be a bad choice because you don't want to end up homeless in the city. But if he doesn't start pulling his own weight, you may need to figure out how to end this whole thing with him, find a new place or find a roommate who will pay up.

You might consider some self-help groups like Co-dependents Anonymous. You might get some books like Co-dependent No More or Women Who Love Too Much. As soon as you started paying his student loans when your weren't rolling in wealth yourself you kinda sorta displayed some glaring co-de signs right there and when you continued to pay his way despite not getting paid back, you sealed the deal.

It's important to get some help, either self-help or professional help, because even if you break it off with your Dreamer boyfriend, you're in serious danger of getting involved with another workless, but dreamy, man and paying his way again. Why?

Because when push comes to shove, bottom line, the final analysis, all those good cliches -- it's about the person who keeps giving and giving when they get only empty promises in return. That's the person who needs help.

I'm all for giving. I'm a giver myself. But there's a point where generosity can become pathologically enabling and it's no longer healthy or even generous. It wouldn't hurt to take a look at that more deeply. I wish you the best. It's not easy to break free from this dynamic of dysfunction. But it can be done and your life will be immensely better for it. Take Care.

[Rose76]

You don't have a boyfriend. You've adopted a child. As long as you stay with him, there is no hope of him starting to grow up. So do yourself and him a big favor and get out. Consider the 5K a gift and forget about it. 5K is not a lot to pay to learn a big lesson. (I've been in your shoes and it doesn't get better with time.)

Once you leave, he will be looking for another woman to take him in, and he'll be likely to find one. He'll bleed her like he's bleeding you, until he wears that situation out. You can not fix him. Save yourself. That is not selfish. That is being responsible. You have the stuff to make a nice life for yourself. Stay with him and you will be dragged down and may ruin your whole life. He genuinely may not be capable of being any different from how he is. I'm all for accepting that people often can't help how they are. That doesn't mean that you have to appoint yourself his personal savior.

There's tons of good advice above. Get free of this guy. Somewhere out there is a guy who shares your values about being responsible. You would be a good catch for a good guy. Don't waste yourself. Don't waste your life. And, if you have any hopes of ever having children, don't burden your future children with this hopeless specimen for a father.

I totally get that you love him. Life is not only about love. Being in love is not a good enough reason to stay with someone. Right now you don't see that. Someday you will. There has to be shared values. Self-sacrifice can be very noble in certain contexts. This is not one of those contexts. This is nothing but a trap. And don't delude yourself into thinking that at least you're saving him. You are getting between him and what slim hope there is of him growing up.

If you extricate yourself from this relationship, then your main challenge is to not get into another similar relationship. That will be hard for you to avoid. Needy men can spot a gal like you from a mile away.

I used to pride myself on not being "materialistic." That is dumb thinking. Concerns about material things are appropriate and mature people take those concerns seriously.

And don't keep buying the b.s. about people "deceiving" him. If that is happening to him, it's because he won't grow up and separate real offers from fantasies. He lets himself be deceived because he'ld rather live in that alternative universe that is divorced from reality.

Good luck. You sound like a fine person who can have a great future, IF you decide not to let that be taken from you.

[Koko2]

You know what they say about artists and musicians. Don't quit your day job.

[Alt77]

A man doesn't rely on others to pay his way. I'm a muso too and I take care of myself.

[surfacetoair]

You say you aren't ambitious but you were disciplined enough to save up 10k to make the move to NY. Good indication to me that you have your act together. I'm an artist and I actually sell some, but I work too. Creativity is a feel good thing but it's a bad career choice statistically speaking. One of my best friends (best man at my wedding ) sounds like your boyfriend and you sound like his ex girl friend. She had enough of him and moved out. I don't know what the love equation is but sounds like you need to act on your instinct, or at least give him an ultimatum.

[ChipperMonkey]

Uhm, do you realize that its not YOU who is making this about money, it is HIM! He is being a master manipulator by turning HIS money issues around on you, and its working because now you feel guilty!

Its sad, but yes, you always have to be looking out for number one. If he is dragging you down, why stay with him? Are you willing to have your credit ruined, possibly be evicted, and have no savings all because of this jerk? Heck no! Love is important, blah, blah, blah, but its those extra things that truly decided if a couple is truly compatible---money being one of those extra things.

Unless you want to be a sugar mama for life, jump ship now. This has nothing to do with love, and yes, he is being emotionally manipulative rather than taking responsibility for himself.

[Rose76]

Not every woman would put up with this for as long as you already have. Ask yourself why. It's not just because you love him. At some level, you are holding on to him out of insecurity. Also you tend to see your worth as a "good" person to be all tied up with how willing you are to be giving. That's kind of materialistic when you think about it.

It's okay to choose to love him AND to leave him. The heart and brain do not have to always be on the same page. It does take experience with life to see that. This is why so many women stay in bad relationships for so long before they leave. It's not that the guy necessarily becomes any worse, but the woman becomes more mature. That makes a woman less vulnerable to being exploited. It is hard to face that a guy you believed chose you out of love was really most attracted to your innocence and vulnerability.

What other relationships has this guy had . . . and how did they go? Look past the self-serving version he related to you about each failure at love. He probably had a few false starts with women who refused to be taken to the cleaners.

[IceCreamKid]

I think you should tell the landlord to keep the deposit and move out.

[Bill3]

I am wondering about something. What does he contribute around the apartment? How much does he plan meals, cook, clean up, wash dishes, change the bed, keep his stuff in reasonable order, do laundry, care for pets and plants (if any), go shopping, clean bathrooms, fix stuff, do favors for you, make you feel treasured in non-monetary ways? It would seem that he has the time to contribute in these ways.

[PapoPez22]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I am wondering about something. What does he contribute around the apartment? How much does he plan meals, cook, clean up, wash dishes, change the bed, keep his stuff in reasonable order, do laundry, care for pets and plants (if any), go shopping, clean bathrooms, fix stuff, do favors for you, make you feel treasured in non-monetary ways? It would seem that he has the time to contribute in these ways.

I’m glad you’re asking me this. The reason why I don’t talk about this with my loved ones is because people are quick to say “Oh, leave him, he’s using you!” … and I don’t know if that’s fair either. He does cook, also does laundry (although I have to fold the clothes ‘cause he sucks at it). He looks after me whenever I’m out late at night, whenever I have panic attacks (I live a very stressful life) I call him and he stops what he is doing to sooth me and help me get through those few panic minutes, and he is very loving with me. For our last anniversary, he paid for dinner even though he was VERY tight on money ("You have done too much for me already, this is the least I can do") and that made me cry...!

As far as relationships, he had an on-and-off girlfriend for 7 years. Money wasn’t an issue because they were both students. They broke up because of they would fight a lot,… and we also fight a lot too, even though I’m not a person that gets easily irritated. I can surely say he has been the person that gets the worst out of me. Someone here mentioned “co-dependency” and I think that makes sense… I need him for emotional support, and he needs me for finance. And I have no doubts that he loves me as much as I love him,…. and that’s the reason why we endure our differences.

What bothers me the most is this money thing and not being able to get his ***** together, and the things that he says in order to convince me to pay his share of the rent or to lend him money. He just got a job as a salesman (obviously, he's great at it) … and maybe a should give him a last opportunity to prove himself, but I fear it might be too late. It’s been a week, and even though I’m in a business trip and taking a “break” for myself, I still feel like I resent him more than what I love him, you know? The only person that knows about this is my BFF and he tells me “You are not gonna break up with him just yet, I know it” … UGH! I feel so embarrassed. I mean,… I have enough to pay for my basic needs, I barely shop or hang out, I try to save money because my parents taught me the importance of it, but with him, I can’t. He does drags me down, and I can't believe in his words anymore.

[Bill3]

It sounds like you might consider giving him one last chance since he now has a position that suits him--if he takes it seriously. What is your thinking about having a discussion along those lines with him? Or is it truly too late.

Good idea taking a break, I'm glad you got that opportunity.

[Rose76]

I don't care if you give him 50 chances and 100 ultimatums. What you see is what you got. He is already doing the best he knows how. He will always be a dependent on you.

That doesn't mean you have to dump him. He has the ability to be soothing to you emotionally. You would not be the first strong woman to have a lapdog type guy in your life and find that kind of works for you. Just be clear about the trade off you're making. He will take care of you and the house. Someday, he might even be good with the kids. As long as you bring home the bacon. He is offering you his caretaking abilities. Let him take care of the home, and stop giving him much money. (You could give him a little pocket change, but no serious money that he will tell you is an investment in his career.)

Think of him as your wife. It may not be a bad arrangement. Supporting a man who warms your bed can be better than coming home to an empty apartment. You already know that. I think you've already decided you are okay with the exchange.

Just make up your mind that it is what it is and stop hoping he'll turn into somebody he hasn't the capacity to be. Then you can stop fighting.

You are angry and resentful towards yourself because you are supporting him.
You are hurting yourself by doing things you regret.

It honestly sounds like you're being taken advantage of. I'm sure it's hard to separate any feelings of fondness you have for him from the idea that he's taking you for a ride (whether consciously or not), but he certainly is. You aren't doing anything wrong, but you are certainly enabling his behavior every time you make a concession. Maybe he isn't a horrible person, we all get down on our luck, but he certainly seems to be a selfish person.

Might be time to focus on you and let him, like the adult he is, work out his own financial issues. That's your call, of course. But your posts make it sound like you're ready to get out (maybe not break up, but separate your finances). It's up to him from there to get his ducks in a row; not up to you to wait and continue playing the patient and supportive partner when resources are finite. Tough situation all the way around. Best wishes.

[PapoPez22]

OMG, guys... something weird happened today. So, I woke up this morning and noticed there was a dead pigeon about 5 feet across the door of my house. I didn't think anything of it initially, but a couple of hours later, my boyfriend called me up to ask me something and, after noticing my consistent monosyllabic attitude towards him (that's my way of dealing with anger) he quickly changed the subject and said: "OK, so, what's the deal? How long are you going to behave like this with me?". I didn't answer. He continued:

"You're tired of helping me out, I get it. What do you want? Do you want to move to separate apartments?".

"That might be a good idea", I said.

"Do you want to break up with me?"

"That might be a good idea as well".

And he hung up on me.

Then, I remembered the dead bird and got curious about it, and this is what I found:

What does seeing dead birds mean? (...) It represents a death, but it is a death of something you have been focused on. It could be the death or “end” of a bad relationship, or a bad financial situation, or a behavior pattern you have been wanting to break, etc. And with all things that end, the way is then clear for new opportunities to come into your life. For instance, if you are in an unhealthy relationship, it is unlikely that a new healthy relationship is going to come into your life if you are still involved or healing from the unhealthy one. Once you have dealt with it and are ready to move on, the universe will send you a message to let you know that it is now time to move forward with your life.

Isn't this absolutely creepy?? I'm not even superstitious but... the bird wasn't hurt or anything, and this door is located at the side of the house, facing another house, both are three stories high, so it's very weird the fact that it ended up right there in front of this door in particular.

Anyway, my boyfriend came home acting as if nothing's wrong and then asked me if I wanted to give us another chance now that he has a new job, and see if things can get more stable financially. I feel particularly bad that his birthday is next week... We always just go to dinner, maybe with another couple, and have a good time together. It is not like we have many friends in the city, you know? I'm still angry, but I still care about him...

By the way, I showed him the dead bird omen meaning and he was all like "oh! the dead of a bad financial situation!" and I was all like "uh, no... the dead of an unhealthy relationship". And he said "You say that as if our relationship was all f***** up. Bad relationships have verbal/emotional/physical abuse, or that sort of thing. We are just going through a financial hardship". What?? Four years (and two years of living together without the 50/50 financial support we agreed on) is just a financial hardship??

"What if the tables were turned?? What if it was you who had a terrible luck with jobs and was having money difficulties?? I would still help you no matter what!" ... this is what he always says to win an argument. "But that's not the case and has not been the case in FOUR YEARS! I can't put this burden on me! This is not what we agreed on when I moved here, and you know it. You can't tell me you are happy in this relationship!" ... then he came over to kiss me on the cheek and said "I still love you, even when you are angry with me"... "You are insane".

[Bill3]

That was spooky about the bird!

What will you do now?

Great Story! It seems you have made a break-through and will soon be free to fly...
Congratulations!

[PapoPez22]

I should add... I'm not the only person helping him, although I'm the one who's handing out more money. His family puts in small amounts of money every now and then.

They too have a history of bad finances. A long time ago they used to be quite OK, living in a very nice neighborhood, going to private schools and such. All of their friends are reasonably wealthy people and they like to live a good life with a live-in-the-moment mentality, which was an issue for me because I come from a humble middle-class family that was wise enough to have long-term goals with their modest income... and I'm proud to say that my parents' future is quite sorted out already now that they are about to retire. Well, something went wrong with my boyfriends' family business and they pretty much lost everything, and they have had quite a hard time recovering from it. Both parents have weird priorities, which worries me too, even though all of this hardship has taught my boyfriend to really think about what's important and what is not, so he has been making a real good use of the little money he has and says this is a valuable lesson for him and his future.

Anyway, he has ADHD with a tendency to depression. He talks a lot –and a considerable portion of it is not entirely realistic–, but has a hard time taking action. Might have a very mild bipolarity? Last year, I was feeling sort of happy that we weren't fighting anymore, but I noticed he would spend the whole day lying in bed in the dark with closed windows and wouldn't talk much, ... he truly looked miserable. I know he feels lost and overwhelmed with the amount of debt that he has, with his inability to make a career out of all the money he invested on his education, and the guilt of ruining his family's credit with his student loans, and the ongoing money shortage that his parents have. But again... I cannot solve this. He always sees me as a privileged person, and I feel he is always going to see me this way as long as I have more money than him, even if it is just $100.

[PapoPez22]

Originally Posted by Bill3

That was spooky about the bird!

What will you do now?

I don't know... I guess give it another chance to prove himself with this job? Ugh, I feel like I'm betraying myself after I gave him that ultimatum last month!