Hi ladies!

I wanted to know if some of you experience similar things to what guys feel when considering someone of the opposite sex. Some of the things are from my own experiences and some things are also what I've come to understand are issues for guys in general.

When we see girls or think about a specific girl we like for example, sometimes we/I feel:

1.) Like we/I are/am not good enough for her. This is especially true if she is really attractive and beautiful, has a very good-looking body, and/or is really smart and highly successful (e.g. a businesswoman or a woman in some kind of powerful position)

2.) When I have determined I am not good enough for her, there is no point even going up to her or starting a conversation because I will be rejected, so I just walk on by.

3.) This girl smiled at me, I wonder if she's interested in me (we don't know each other, we just passed each other in a shop or somewhere).

4.) This girl smiled at me and said hello, I wonder if she is more interested than the girl who simply smiled at me before.

5.) This really hot girl, like the one in point 1 whom I thought was too good for me, smiled at me in the shop. This smiling must then not mean anything after all, it's just girls being their friendly selves, like they are with each other.

6.) This girl likes hugging me when she sees me, but she hugs her friends too, so that must mean she just likes hugging in general to express herself to others.

I just want to know if some of you ladies reading this also feel these kinds of things when you see guys.

Also, please share if you have other points too! That would be great. Please tell us (guys) the things you think when you see us walking and stuff, maybe smiling at you, similar to the way I wrote it here.

Do you also feel sometimes like it's not even worth approaching a really hot guy to get his attention because it will probably just lead to rejection?

[divine1966]

I never ever think or thought that I am not good enough. I think highly of myself. And I do not have fear of rejection.

Sometimes people just smile and hug because they are friendly and sometimes it means something. It really depends. I smile and laugh a lot and hug people, most of the time it just means I am friendly and social. I think Men are the same way

No I don't feel it is not worth approaching a guy. I don't really care how people look though. Hot or not hot never bothered me. I am attracted to other things in men, not looks. I do not think of hotness as any kind of accomplishment. I am a good looking woman but it is just genetics, and looks fade. The whole concept of hot is overrated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks divine! I think you're right, there shouldn't be a thing of that person is too good for me so I expect rejection. Sadly though, among guys, you do find that sometimes. You often hear guys say "she is out of my league".

It's great that you have a confident image of yourself, it can really do wonders in life. I only possess that in certain areas, like academically for example, but then there are areas where I do feel like others have an advantage over me, beauty and "manliness" being one of them.

I don't know where many men learn this thing, but sadly it does occur. It stops a lot of guys from approaching certain women from fear of rejection. And, beauty has been portrayed as one of the most significant factors influencing that decision.

I think a lot of guys have been taught that you need to "work" and attain a woman by increasing whatever it is you are lacking. For most guys, it's the body - no fat and muscular. No real value is placed on intellect, personality, and other non-physical aspects.

The saddest thing is, most women (even including the really "hot" ones) probably don't even agree with this assessment, but it is something men have been led to believe and has been ingrained. Maybe the only reason why these "hot" men do get the ladies is because they feel they have achieved what the other men haven't, and that boosts the confidence, hence they approach and it actually works. But, maybe another guy might have found the same result, yet he perceived he wouldn't, so he didn't try anyway.

That is why I wished to start this thread because I wanted to hear what women thought. I also want you (ladies) to air some of the things you think and perceive when observing men.

I also wanted to see if we (both genders) have similar issues regarding the perception of the opposite sex, or if they are different.

Also, lastly, I thought it would also be quite cool if the ladies could let us guys know some of the things they feel, and perhaps some of us guys could tell them whether we truly think that or not.

I guess what I wanted was a thread in which we could tell each other whether the things we believe about each other are true and perhaps clear some misconceptions.

So, let's chat!

[Loss4wards]

I'm really new here, but I like the idea of this thread. I honestly believe both males and females share more in common in this area than they think. Although they(we?) always seem to think our perspectives and perceptions are so drastically different. So here it goes.. bare in mind that my own opinions and statements may be pretty different from others, but I see a lot in common with yours.

1.) I've often thought men were unattainable because they were better looking or in a position of power. I think this is partly a self-esteem issue and partly a natural yearning to be equals with a partner. I don't think anyone wants to feel inferior- that's not to say some people of either sex don't like to feel submissive or dominant. Simply that they don't want to feel like less of a person because of who they are with. Make sense?

2.) I've walked away without saying a word because I didn't feel good enough, or "in the same league"

3. - 5.) I think these 3 points have more to do with the interpretation of others signals. Individually a smile or friendly gesture can have different meanings. I try to never assume that a person is interested in me based a smile, because I've misinterpreted this myself. Thinking someone is hitting on you because they flash a smile, only to find out it was only meant as general politeness/kindness. I've had men assume that because I was being polite or kind with a smile that I was interested in them, when that was not the case.

6.) Hugs... now those can be hard to decipher lol. I don't have many friends but the few I do have I hug every chance I get. I think trying to read hugs comes down to both body language and simple discussion. People seem to press their whole body against someone they're hugging out of desire, but more casually and loosely when it's based on friendship. If you're not sure ask (not at all easy, I know) Talk about what seems like the most awkward of conversations.. " Were you hugging me because you want me, or just as a greeting of friendship?"

Hope some of my rambling helps.. I know you're post has kind of answered a question of my own. I always wondered if most guys just assumed that when a girl smiled she was interested. Thank you for proving that point wrong!!

Originally Posted by Loss4wards

I'm really new here, but I like the idea of this thread. I honestly believe both males and females share more in common in this area than they think. Although they(we?) always seem to think our perspectives and perceptions are so drastically different. So here it goes.. bare in mind that my own opinions and statements may be pretty different from others, but I see a lot in common with yours.

1.) I've often thought men were unattainable because they were better looking or in a position of power. I think this is partly a self-esteem issue and partly a natural yearning to be equals with a partner. I don't think anyone wants to feel inferior- that's not to say some people of either sex don't like to feel submissive or dominant. Simply that they don't want to feel like less of a person because of who they are with. Make sense?

2.) I've walked away without saying a word because I didn't feel good enough, or "in the same league"

3. - 5.) I think these 3 points have more to do with the interpretation of others signals. Individually a smile or friendly gesture can have different meanings. I try to never assume that a person is interested in me based a smile, because I've misinterpreted this myself. Thinking someone is hitting on you because they flash a smile, only to find out it was only meant as general politeness/kindness. I've had men assume that because I was being polite or kind with a smile that I was interested in them, when that was not the case.

6.) Hugs... now those can be hard to decipher lol. I don't have many friends but the few I do have I hug every chance I get. I think trying to read hugs comes down to both body language and simple discussion. People seem to press their whole body against someone they're hugging out of desire, but more casually and loosely when it's based on friendship. If you're not sure ask (not at all easy, I know) Talk about what seems like the most awkward of conversations.. " Were you hugging me because you want me, or just as a greeting of friendship?"

Hope some of my rambling helps.. I know you're post has kind of answered a question of my own. I always wondered if most guys just assumed that when a girl smiled she was interested. Thank you for proving that point wrong!!

Thank you very much for your posting! I have truly learnt something interesting. I never knew that women also had that perceived "out of my league" thing with guys too! I also didn't know women would actually skip the chance of talking with a guy because of this too, just like I do with women. That's truly profound.

And the thing is, as a guy, I've never actually once thought I would not like this girl to come and talk with me, because she's so not good enough for me. I can't actually ever recall any guys I know ever saying that. Most of us guys, because of our self-esteem issues as mentioned before, would actually welcome a girl approaching us, we feel flattered (or maybe it's just me). I certainly don't mind at all and I've never actually thought of ever telling a girl to get lost or telling her I don't wish to speak with her.

The smile and hug thing is still difficult for me, because I forget that all smiles and all hugs doesn't mean she is always just friendly and not interested. Sometimes she might be. I tend to err on the not interested side, so I've actually never struck up a conversation with a girl who smiled and said hello to me. Maybe I've really missed several opportunities to have a girlfriend as such? And what's really confusing, and reinforces the just friendly theory in my head, are these really hot/powerful girls who smile and say hello, someone I have designated as being "way out of my league". Because I pre-believe there can't be attraction, I assume she is simply just friendly.

Oooh, there's another thing I want to ask. Does the final decision of attraction between a guy and a girl always rest with the girl? What I mean is, does she always get to decide whether there should be an attraction or not? Sometimes a guy is interested, but a girl is not, and then a relationship doesn't ensue, and the guy just has to move on. What I mean is, can a guy initiate attraction in a girl by say him pressing up during a hug? Does it only qualify if she presses up?

Oh yeah, and do girls sometimes say to themselves "I wish he would notice me. I really like him"? I've often felt that way, many times I wished a girl would notice me because I liked her.

Another thing that confuses me is I get married women and girls with boyfriends who show me more attention than single girls. This also reinforces for me to dismiss possible "signs" because she is married, so she must be just friendly surely. A girl I used to like used to do this all the time with me - she would press up against me, sit close and with our bodies touching in the seat next to me in class, and touch me on the arm when talking to me, but she had a boyfriend. She was also super "hot". These things are pretty confusing and I always assume "worst case scenario" - she's simply only showing friendliness. When she was single, she didn't do it, she just used to talk to me.

[divine1966]

No men shouldn't initiate attraction by pressing himself to women unless of course there are already a couple. You aren't going to get a nice girl by doing that.

Yes men do like when women take initiative. But by that I don't mean women pressing themselves and touching men unless they are together. Unless you like slutty girls.

Attraction is either there or it's not. Sometimes it is there right away and sometimes it takes time to develop. But it can't be forced

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by divine1966

No men shouldn't initiate attraction by pressing himself to women unless of course there are already a couple. You aren't going to get a nice girl by doing that.

Yes men do like when women take initiative. But by that I don't mean women pressing themselves and touching men unless they are together. Unless you like slutty girls.

Attraction is either there or it's not. Sometimes it is there right away and sometimes it takes time to develop. But it can't be forced

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh sorry, no I meant when you hug each other, like Loss4wards was saying, you get a hug that is more full on, indicating you like that person. I meant if the guy did that first, then would the girl perhaps start to develop attraction, as the guy is showing the sign of it? Or is it the norm for the guy to wait and see if she does that first, and then realize it's OK because it's a sign she likes him perhaps?

[divine1966]

No women do not start developing attraction for a man because he is showing signs of it. He could be attracted and show signs but it doesn't mean she'd be attracted as well. And vice versa.

There are no rules like this in life. Sometime men show it first and sometimes women. It all depends. It all supposed to develop naturally. If you focus on who does what, it only makes it harder.

Why don't you first get to know girls and then things just fall into a place.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

Wow.

I'm honestly blown away how you were so completely blind to the fact that women have the same issues.

It's how most of the conversations in here go... things work very much the same for BOTH GENDERS.

Insecurities and feelings of not being good enough are rampant amongst both genders. People feel like they are too ugly frequently. People are frequently too shy to initiate contact.

That goes for both genders.... how could you seriously not know that? It shows up in soooooo much media - books, movies, tv shows, forums, everywhere.

Especially with women!

How many movies are there... usually romantic comedies.... where the less-appealing guy ends up with a really hot woman? Who he doesn't notice at first because she isn't dressed sexy and doesn't look attractive? There are SO MANY of those out. Yet.... if you look for movies where there's a less-appealing female.... who gets a really hot man? Not really any out there.

[I'm Worth It]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

Hi ladies!

I wanted to know if some of you experience similar things to what guys feel when considering someone of the opposite sex. Some of the things are from my own experiences and some things are also what I've come to understand are issues for guys in general.

When we see girls or think about a specific girl we like for example, sometimes we/I feel:

1.) Like we/I are/am not good enough for her. This is especially true if she is really attractive and beautiful, has a very good-looking body, and/or is really smart and highly successful (e.g. a businesswoman or a woman in some kind of powerful position)

2.) When I have determined I am not good enough for her, there is no point even going up to her or starting a conversation because I will be rejected, so I just walk on by.

3.) This girl smiled at me, I wonder if she's interested in me (we don't know each other, we just passed each other in a shop or somewhere).

4.) This girl smiled at me and said hello, I wonder if she is more interested than the girl who simply smiled at me before.

5.) This really hot girl, like the one in point 1 whom I thought was too good for me, smiled at me in the shop. This smiling must then not mean anything after all, it's just girls being their friendly selves, like they are with each other.

6.) This girl likes hugging me when she sees me, but she hugs her friends too, so that must mean she just likes hugging in general to express herself to others.

I just want to know if some of you ladies reading this also feel these kinds of things when you see guys.

Also, please share if you have other points too! That would be great. Please tell us (guys) the things you think when you see us walking and stuff, maybe smiling at you, similar to the way I wrote it here.

Do you also feel sometimes like it's not even worth approaching a really hot guy to get his attention because it will probably just lead to rejection?

It is not for you to decide whether or not you are good enough for anyone. They get to make that decision for themselves when they see who you are and whether or not you can and want to meet their needs for dating or a relationship.

And, if they turn you down, so be it. It can't be personal, they don't know you. If you aren't their type, looks-wise or otherwise, that's not your fault or theirs. It's just the way it is. They can't make themselves like you anymore than you can make them like you. Guys go through the same thing -- they go up to a girl, she turns him down, he feels bad. But the truth is there's nothing to feel bad about, it is what it is . . .

[jaymoq]

You've gotten some good responses, but I will say that I am a very withdrawn independent type woman. I am not a hugger with strangers. I am not the dominant personality so I will not often lead. I have had men that were also submissive types and those courtings went nowhere. I do not like to make the first move. I will talk a LOT via technology because I feel comfortable but can be very quiet in person. So, not all girls are going to be the ones to initiate a conversation. When I was single, I saw many males that I found attractive but I never acted on because I do have some insecurities. I have had to deal with some shallow personalities and even though it shouldn't have, it gave a swift kick to my ego.

I eventually gave up on what is 'socially acceptable' and just started doing what I was comfortable with. I also don't focus on a man's physical attributes as much as I do their personality. I have strictly dated online (for the most part) because I am not a social butterfly and I do better in a neutral ground of communication than face-to-face.

I have been married and divorced and am engaged to be married again. I have found there is no right way to interact with members of the opposite sex. Love yourself and do what you want and you will find those that want to do the same. I don't take rejection personally. I once had a drunk man laugh in my face and call me a bunch of cruel things. I didn't let it phase me. We just obviously aren't compatible!

Stereotyping women is like stereotyping men. Or, people in general. We are all still human beings. You can't approach everyone the same. Be yourself. Act yourself. The rest will follow.

[divine1966]

Good point: there is no right way. Outside of obviously Bad behavior there are no rules

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arwen_78]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

1.) Like we/I are/am not good enough for her. This is especially true if she is really attractive and beautiful, has a very good-looking body, and/or is really smart and highly successful (e.g. a businesswoman or a woman in some kind of powerful position)

I can say that I have felt this way at one time or another. I think it was mostly because I didn’t feel, think, that I could give him the emotional support he deserved. I’m not sure that I can now but I am here for him and try to be the one who is up when we’re both feeling down. I mean he was a shy 26 years old and I was his first girlfriend and I didn’t really know if I wanted to be his first heartbreak if it happened.

Originally Posted by StbGuy

2.) When I have determined I am not good enough for her, there is no point even going up to her or starting a conversation because I will be rejected, so I just walk on by.

Yes, I think women do! I was the kinda of girl to jump first then ask question, I was the one who usually asked guys out. Most of the time being rejected but I’m not sure if I ever knew how to truly deal with emotional side of things. In fact now that I’m being honest with myself I’m emotional stupid to others and sometime myself.

Originally Posted by StbGuy

3.) This girl smiled at me, I wonder if she's interested in me (we don't know each other, we just passed each other in a shop or somewhere).

Oh, all the time! Bad thing is I sometimes think they really do want more with me. So, I try not to see things like that. It’s a real problem as when I end up chatting with guys at a bar, not looking to be picked up, they get the wrong idea and I can’t tell when the friendly chat ended and they started flirting with me.

Originally Posted by StbGuy

4.) This girl smiled at me and said hello, I wonder if she is more interested than the girl who simply smiled at me before.

Same as before

Originally Posted by StbGuy

5.) This really hot girl, like the one in point 1 whom I thought was too good for me, smiled at me in the shop. This smiling must then not mean anything after all, it's just girls being their friendly selves, like they are with each other.

Part of this is true, you don’t know what “kind “of smile it is unless you start talking to them. I mean maybe they like you as in maybe he looks cool as in friend or it could be more. Yet, friendship should come first always!

Originally Posted by StbGuy

6.) This girl likes hugging me when she sees me, but she hugs her friends too, so that must mean she just likes hugging in general to express herself to others.

Here, I would ask her if she shares your feelings. I mean with smiles there is a difference in them. I’m not great as social queues but it’s another stupid thing about social rules that most of us miss.

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

Wow.

I'm honestly blown away how you were so completely blind to the fact that women have the same issues.

It's how most of the conversations in here go... things work very much the same for BOTH GENDERS.

Insecurities and feelings of not being good enough are rampant amongst both genders. People feel like they are too ugly frequently. People are frequently too shy to initiate contact.

That goes for both genders.... how could you seriously not know that? It shows up in soooooo much media - books, movies, tv shows, forums, everywhere.

Especially with women!

How many movies are there... usually romantic comedies.... where the less-appealing guy ends up with a really hot woman? Who he doesn't notice at first because she isn't dressed sexy and doesn't look attractive? There are SO MANY of those out. Yet.... if you look for movies where there's a less-appealing female.... who gets a really hot man? Not really any out there.

I'm sorry for being offensive, I really didn't know that.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Why don't you first get to know girls and then things just fall into a place.

I've been trying that for many years, and they never do, which has truly convinced me I am not worth being attracted to, and nobody is attracted to me.

I can't recall in my entire life anyone ever being attracted to me, saying it to me, or showing it to me. I've only been attracted to women (not vice versa), and then those specific ladies made it clear they are not attracted to me, so I get the message I must leave her alone which I then accept as I don't have any other choice. At that point the friendship dissolves too as she is totally grossed out by me and I've seemingly scarred her for life with the image of me and her being intimate.

I feel like such a horrible piece of trash.

Originally Posted by jaymoq

Be yourself. Act yourself. The rest will follow.

It's not working though.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Good point: there is no right way. Outside of obviously Bad behavior there are no rules

I have a serious problem, approaching women feels wrong and like bad behaviour. As a man I feel like a pervert, gross, dirty and lecherous.

When I approach a woman, it feels like she's already decided no and I'm just wasting my breath. I wish women would approach me because then I'd know she is interested, but it's never ever happened.

[jaymoq]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

It's not working though.

Perhaps it isn't working today. Sometimes, these things take time. Sometimes, you're not in the right arena. Sometimes, you over analyze and speculate so much that it can drive you crazy. I went through months of anguish convinced my being single and not-wanted was a flaw. But, I had to realize that my single status doesn't mean I am not living. I started taking myself out. I would go on hikes, I would go to museums, and I had some penpals in the meantime just to satisfy conversation with another human being. I started feeling better about myself and eventually stopped caring about what other people thought or felt. My standards grew, I was able to say "No" to people I wans't interested in (whereas before I would talk to just about anyone in fear I might not EVER find ANYONE) and after several months of that, I found a handful of great prospects for a relationship.

I can understand how some people need companionship. I am one of them. I just really like having that person in my life that I can rely on, talk to, etc. But, you have to also be able to embrace yourself and realize "Hey, I can do the things I want still, even by myself".

Stop placing so much pressure to meet OTHER people's standards and focus on what makes YOU happy. For example, what are some hobbies you like? DO them!

If someone rejects you because you're being YOU, that is their problem, not yours. It seems like you're so eager to change yourself or present yourself in a way that is suitable for a partner. That is not only being fake, but it is also not satisfying for you I'm sure.

Originally Posted by jaymoq

It seems like you're so eager to change yourself or present yourself in a way that is suitable for a partner. That is not only being fake, but it is also not satisfying for you I'm sure.

I've landed myself in a predicament. I've left behind, or gave up, all those things that made me, well me. But, at the same time, I have realized I am unable to adopt whatever it is I wanted to become, because it was never going to be me.

Basically, I'm stuck now with nothing, not me and not who I thought I want to be either. I can't go back because I threw my identity away (as of course I believed it was that that was holding me back), I can't go forward to who I wanted to be because that turned out to be not someone I can be. I don't know what to do.

You guys have seen my posts, I am now nothing more than a soulless monster.

[jaymoq]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

It's not working though.

Originally Posted by StbGuy

I've landed myself in a predicament. I've left behind, or gave up, all those things that made me, well me. But, at the same time, I have realized I am unable to adopt whatever it is I wanted to become, because it was never going to be me.

Basically, I'm stuck now with nothing, not me and not who I thought I want to be either. I can't go back because I threw my identity away, I can't go forward to who I wanted to be because that turned out to be not someone I can be. I don't know what to do.

You guys have seen my posts, I am now nothing more than a soulless monster.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way. That sounds very difficult. Are you seeing someone or getting any professional help for some of these social issues you're having? Your posts don't make me think "soulless monster". I am troubled that is how you're seeing yourself.

Unfortunately, it seems like some of this goes beyond the extent of what we can provide over a forum. It seems like you are really struggling with your identity. That will make it hard for you to be comfortable in your own skin and maybe is even causing you to project negative emotions on to others, which won't aid you in striking new bonds.

You have gotten some really good feeback from our members regarding your post. Only you can make the decision and determine who you want to be. Don't place barriers around yourself out of fear of not being enough. That would be my only additional advice.

I personally have had to come to terms with my extreme anxiety. I can be incredibly moody, irritable, and downright cranky at times and then slump down in to a pretty dark depression. I know I will always need a partner that can see past my bouts of irritation and not engage me during my worst; someone that will lift me up. They do exist. There are people out there. I know it might not seem like it now. Just know you are not alone. You have us for your support! And, hopefully, you will consider seeing (or continuing to see) a professional locally that can provide more substantial supports.

1.) Like we/I are/am not good enough for her. This is especially true if she is really attractive and beautiful, has a very good-looking body, and/or is really smart and highly successful (e.g. a businesswoman or a woman in some kind of powerful position)

I wouldn't say "not good enough" but some people do have very specific preconceptions about who they will date or have a relationship with. Two examples that come to mind are people who want to be a "power couple" and are looking for someone who fits that description and people who come from very wealthy families and don't have relationships except with other very wealthy people.

Those examples come from my own observations.

2.) When I have determined I am not good enough for her, there is no point even going up to her or starting a conversation because I will be rejected, so I just walk on by.

Okay, you're talking about starting a conversation with a stranger here. If I'm in a position where it's reasonable to chat (like waiting in a line, browsing in a bookstore) I probably would strike up a conversation anyway. I would just keep it to general chat, though.

Some of this stuff I'm saying is from "me in my 20s", since I'm not interested in starting a relationship now and am more likely to chat with anyone who seems interesting UNLESS they seem like they might be interested in me.

I would suggest chatting to people other than women that look like a romantic prospect. It gives you practice in talking to people, and especially if you see the same people a lot, it can give you access to people that they know.

3.) This girl smiled at me, I wonder if she's interested in me (we don't know each other, we just passed each other in a shop or somewhere).

1. That guy smiled at me. He seems interested. I might be interested. I smile back and say "hello".

2. That guy smiled at me. I think he's just being friendly. I smile back. If I'm in the mood to chat and there's an opportunity, I take it. I might make a new friend or just have an interesting exchange.

3. That guy smiled at me. He looks hungry and he's looking at me like I'm a bucket of fried chicken. I nod and avoid him.

4.) This girl smiled at me and said hello, I wonder if she is more interested than the girl who simply smiled at me before.

Pretty much the same reactions as to "3".

5.) This really hot girl, like the one in point 1 whom I thought was too good for me, smiled at me in the shop. This smiling must then not mean anything after all, it's just girls being their friendly selves, like they are with each other.

A guy, who I've classified as probably not being someone who's interested in me, smiles at me in a shop. I smile back unless I think he's creepy, then I'd probably just nod. (Yes, there are absolutely people that I wouldn't WANT to date in that group of people who probably wouldn't want to date me.)

6.) This girl likes hugging me when she sees me, but she hugs her friends too, so that must mean she just likes hugging in general to express herself to others.

Ah, I'd better skip that one. Too complicated. I try not to read things into hugs. Very hard to sort out all that body language.

The Other Points:

1. You seem to mostly be talking about approaching strangers, or near-strangers, here. In my fairly extensive experience, I have only ever ended up on a date (that's what people my age call it) with someone I've met in that way when there was either very obviously a strong physical attraction on both our parts or when I've really liked someone's personality and enjoyed their conversation (or all of those.)

That didn't necessarily mean I wanted to have sex with the person right away or be in a relationship with them. The date was more of a "trying it out" sort of thing to see how we got along if we spent more time together.

2. I think it's important to talk to and to have acquaintances and even friends of all ages. A good conversational exchange is a goal in and of itself.

3. I know people always say this, but I met a lot of guys that I ended up dating through things like parties at a friend's house, playing on a sports team, participating in volunteer activities, and at church. In other words, I was usually busy doing something else other than looking for someone to date when I actually met someone to date.

Actually looking for someone to date often seems to have the effect of making it more difficult. The corollary to this is that when you're dating someone, many more people will sudden become interested in you. It's extremely frustrating.

4. I know that you wrote this post specifically to compare women's reactions to your own, but whenever I read posts on this forum where men are discussing how to approach women and how to notice that they are interested, I find myself wondering about other aspects of their life. Do they have a job or studies that interest them? Do they have hobbies or interests that they pursue? What kind of things do they do or think about - do they read, really like certain types of film - what are their interests? Do they have life goals or do they kind of just float along? (I'm not wondering about these things in relation to your attracting women - I just wonder what else people who ask about attracting women focus their attention on.)

5. Okay, this one IS advice. I imagine you already do this, but you did ask for other advice. Appearance - I look at hygiene. If a person looks unbathed or their clothing is disheveled, unless they've been working hard on a project or studying for a test or just finished some sporting or work activity, poor hygiene is a big turn-off. Especially dental hygiene. Fingernails or toenails, dirty or unkempt hair. Filthy glasses. I'm not saying all women will reject a guy for this. If I want to do some redecorating or remodeling, it's going to be furniture or a house, not a man.

Clothing. Shouldn't look like you sleep in it. Should at least look like you think a little bit about what you wear. Unless you are a charming nerd, then you may get a pass here.

I look at posture and overall physical fitness. I do this more as a measure of self-esteem and overall healthy attitude than because of "good looks". It's sort of a body language thing, I suppose.

6. Money. If you have dysfunctional habits with money (either spend too freely or not freely enough) that's not a good signal. If you have a plan for your money, that's a sign of maturity and good judgement. Women who are family-oriented will probably find this especially appealing.

7. Forward momentum when you're young, and comfortable with where you are with positive things going on (work, interests, social connections) when you're older.

8. Be reliable. (This is my personal preference.) I know that some women go for guys who are spectacularly unreliable, but a lot of women find reliability and steadiness to be very appealing, especially if they've had a bad relationship with an unreliable guy.

Do you also feel sometimes like it's not even worth approaching a really hot guy to get his attention because it will probably just lead to rejection?

My idea of a "really hot guy" isn't anything like the stereotypical idea, so it would probably depend on my mood and self-esteem that day. If I'm in a good mood, I will walk up to pretty much anyone and talk to them.

I would not try to "hit on" someone I don't know, though, because I think it's creepy and rude. But yeah, I might walk up to a guy I find totally hot and say "Hello?" and then attempt to chat.

Last comment. Whenever a man approaches a woman, he should keep in mind that the large majority of women spend a lot of time getting hit on by unpleasant men.

I'm over 50 now, and would certainly expected it to stop by now, but it hasn't. It has gotten worse in some ways, because of my income level being a lot lower since I've been on disability.

I'm not able to afford to dress very well or spend much on hair or makeup anymore, and this seems to have led to my being classified as being on a lower "pecking order". It may also have something to do with the fact that I ride the bus for transportation.

I get men I don't know asking if I want to spend the night with them, asking if they can come home with me, suggesting that I might want to go to a motel with them. I try to laugh about it.

But that's probably not relevant to your situation.

My point is that women are often already a little on guard when they're out in public.

I know that hearing that usually just makes shy men think "OMG, am I being that guy?"

These interactions are unquestionably difficult. If you're not sure if a woman is interested, one thing to try to observe and decide is if she's shy. If she's pretty upfront generally, then if she's hesitant or makes excuses if you ask her out, then she's probably not interested. I'll let the shy women tell you how they operate.

You are one of the more interesting (to me) guys who have posted on PC about approaching women, because in reading your posts, I get the impression that you're perfectly self-confident in most areas but not where it comes to women.

I don't know if life coaches are abundant where you live. Where I live, you could totally find a life coach to help you figure out how to meet women. It really sounds like you just need some in-person advice and maybe someone to do a "ride-along" (so to speak) to watch you as you interact with people. Just something that you might think about.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

I've landed myself in a predicament. I've left behind, or gave up, all those things that made me, well me. But, at the same time, I have realized I am unable to adopt whatever it is I wanted to become, because it was never going to be me.

Basically, I'm stuck now with nothing, not me and not who I thought I want to be either. I can't go back because I threw my identity away (as of course I believed it was that that was holding me back), I can't go forward to who I wanted to be because that turned out to be not someone I can be. I don't know what to do.

You guys have seen my posts, I am now nothing more than a soulless monster.

Yes, you can. You can start learning to be yourself. You can start working towards being who you want to be.

You can't only because you say you can't - which means that you gave up trying. Of course you won't get anywhere when you've given up trying.

Currently, you are someone. If you don't like that someone.... find what parts you don't like, and work to change them. It will be slow yes, but it can be done. You just have to find the drive to be persistent and not quit.

As to your other posts - really, approaching strangers in random situations I think is the least common way to initiate relationships. Like... just to use myself as an example? Every guy I've dated, had a one night stand with, people I've befriended..... I've met through people I knew, or in situations where I would have repeated meetings with them (work, school, clubs, etc).

If someone introduces themselves to me randomly, I'll happily have a conversation with them (unless they start saying things that creep me out) but I wouldn't give them my number or contact information. Even if I was attracted to them I wouldn't, because you just never know. If I was to then run into them again - well, the more I run into them the more likely I am to share my information with them. But that's the same at work or in clubs or anything - I get to know someone before I give them my contact details.

Thank you for your very insightful post! I do quite a few of those things I think I shouldn't be doing. Growing up poor is difficult. I've realized I'm probably only ever going to truly be attractive once I've managed to exit my quite toxic home where I grew up in. It has always been so that I've always just had enough to make it to university and to study, the other students seem to have a much greater life advantage in all areas, their parents seem well off. I struggle basically to reach the end of each year. I will probably only become appealing/attractive after 30.

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

I get men I don't know asking if I want to spend the night with them, asking if they can come home with me, suggesting that I might want to go to a motel with them. I try to laugh about it.

I'm so sorry, that's just horrible.

Thanks guys! I think my lack of success has resulted over the years from a mixture of bad advice, bad life circumstances that just found me somehow, my toxic relationship with my dad and emotional deprivation as a child (which I think has made me quite a sick and depraved individual).

I was led to believe relationships and sex were the same thing. I thought you pick up women in a bar, in the shop, etc. I believed if you were friends with a woman, then that's the only place it will stay.

So, sure, there was "evidence" to support this, but I didn't look at it in it's entirety. Guys were picking up girls in bars or in the shops, girls they didn't know, but what I forgot was that girls can be slutty too, and of course they would not be interested in a guy like me who wants something more special, they want sex, and so of course physical attraction will be on top of the list there (guys with muscular bodies basically).

I had to shift the idea of me being "wrong" to those two individuals simply being shallow and lustful (the guy and the girl that hookup).

The other thing was to realize that I didn't notice if girls liked me, and here I really think the autistic thing comes into it, in the sense of I don't notice anything emotional/feeling wise/body language from people. So, maybe girls were trying to show me, and I didn't notice.

So, yes, the "doing other stuff and not thinking about relationships and then it simply happens when you're not looking" theory works, but for normal sort of people who then can still notice it at the crucial moment. When I'm busy with my work, I'm too immersed in it to notice anything else. There was a girl at church who I think perhaps liked me, thinking back now, but at that moment I would never have thought so. I've been researching body language, etc. of ladies when they do like you, and I must say, I can actually recall girls in high school doing the things mentioned (staring at my lips when I talk, etc.). Never even caught my eye at the time. Girls coming up to me and introducing themselves, didn't even ring any sort of bell with me. Maybe I deserve to be alone now for being so stupid. I've surely created enough "bad karma". Maybe some female force of the universe is angry with me.

Let's face it, I've probably humiliated all those girls by not noticing them. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Oh well, I'm screwed then I guess.

In the situation that you're describing, you may need to develop some longer-term goals. (or very likely you already have them if you're managing to stay in university even though it's a financial strain)

I will probably only become appealing/attractive after 30.

Well, if that does turn out to be the case, you will have missed some age-specific fun maybe, but unless you live in a really small town where everyone pairs off in their teens, people are still dating and having relationships very enthusiastically in their 30s.

And well past that, of course. I get a big kick out of hearing my mom describe the dating scene among the people in their 70s in the town where she lives. It's amazingly active.