Problems with parent?

Might as well jump right in:

I've wanted nothing more than freedom from my mother's involvement for years. Yet she never leaves me alone: when I was at college she called me almost daily, keeping me for 20-45 minutes each time. As I first became depressed the first person I cut off was her, and she actually sent the campus police to tell me to call her and let her know I'm okay, and yes, I resented that.

I came home and got shunted off to another school, which was a terrible fit and I ended up leaving and living at home again for two hellish years. My mother and I were just on the phone now talking about those years, and it seems I can't talk to her without devolving into a screaming maniac. Here's more or less what happened:

I had little interest in studying in college - I have/had no direction or strong interest, and little ability to actually work. All it provided for me, though, was a chance to have a life of my own. Mostly, I was involved online (for the two years I lived at home, all I really did was sleep, eat, read, and spend hours online. My mother constantly called me an addict and threatened to send me to rehab for internet addicts, and my laptop - oh sorry, her laptop - was kept locked in a safe for weeks on end, wherein I would just go and spend all day at the public library), and while it actually kind of fueled my dysfunction, it was also incredibly liberating. I felt for the first time like I was part of something, like I had a life and a self, and when that was taken away there was a profound feeling of disconnect from everything.

For two years I was barely left alone - or at least that's what it felt like. Honestly, I feel so pathetic, so juvenile whining about this, getting so upset over a parents nagging, but it felt like torture to constantly interrupted while thinking or reading, the more it happened the more disproportionate my rage gets. My mother would come into my room and talk at me so often I actually started to become paranoid, hearing her screaming for me when she wasn't even in the house, or was but hadn't said anything. I brought that up to her today and her response was "That's what parents do when their adult children live at home and don't do anything - nag them and bother them until they get a job and get out of the house." Yet to me, it felt a bit like those mental handicaps in Harrison Bergeron, where a sound plays every few seconds to scatter a person's thoughts so they never think too deeply. Like it was just making everything worse and making me want to retreat further

I have no justification. I'm a vile, selfish, childish piece of nothing. But living like that killed me. All I wanted was to be alone with my online life. I did try, feebly, to get a job, but got rejected from everywhere (which is still going on now and, when my mom tells me "All you had to do was get a job and I would have left you alone" ) Because of my status as an unemployed dropout who couldn't pay rent to live at home, it turns out, I never had any right to privacy or solitude. It would have been nice if I knew that, I would have opted for homelessness.

There's another part: my mother says I was the one horrible to her. That all I did was swear at her and call her names, that I made a mess of the house then demanded my dinner - which isn't true. At the very least, I never asked for food, if anything I preferred to prepare my own and eat alone. I spent most of the time in my room, and trying to barricade myself in was treated as a horrific offense (she threatened to take the door off the hinges multiple times). My mother says if I was left alone in a kitchen it would look like a toddler tried to make dinner for 10 people - meaning there would be a couple of dishes in the sink. She goes on about how I demanded to have my clothes washed or otherwise wore filthy clothes - because I wasn't allowed to use the washer and dryer, she claimed I was too stupid to handle it and would break it, though once I was so desperate after not having clean anything for a month that I did take my clothes and ran a cold wash. It went perfectly fine.

I could go on. We have claims against each other, and I've even wondered about getting someone to help sort it out legally, who's in the right or wrong. My mom always claims that her side will completely negate mine, that when she explains what I did I'll be in jail (the only thing I can think of there is money. I did steal money. She knows and I intend to pay it back, I've already started. That was the worst of what I did and I knew it), for things like bringing vermin into the house (we found a mouse shortly before I left). The more I look, the more I realize how invalid my suffering is. It all boils down to "I was upset and in a bad way mentally." Which no one cares about. Now I'm thinking, what if I'm actually an abusive deadbeat who ruined someone's life and really am responsible for her drinking problem and mental breakdown? What's all this victimization I feel? Narcissism? Insanity? When I was talking/yelling this afternoon and tried to explain what I experienced, she said I was making up fantasies of how things were.

I'm inclined to think part of this rage comes from how we've basically spent our lives together. Neither of us had any friends in our area, we were together 24/7 while I was growing up. And all I wanted was to have a life of my own where I didn't have to keep everything hidden lest it incur criticism or be used as ammo against me when I wasn't performing to expectation (when my mom found out about a bunch of internet friends I hung out with, she threatened to hunt them down and kill them because they were distracting me from my studies. I just recall this and think "Your kid makes friends for the first time, and you want to kill them. That's healthy"). I could be fully real online, express whatever I wanted and someone would be there to join in or commiserate instead of brushing it off. It was freedom that I'd never know offline where my mother seems to be around me constantly, even when there's physical distance there are still phone calls and full inboxes. Hell, she called me at work recently because I hadn't spoken to her for a glorious 4 days and she "didn't know if [I] was alive or dead".

As usual, I don't know where I'm going with this, other than I'm worried and disturbed.

Sorry you haven't had a response until now. I guess it's unclear what the question is here. For what it's worth, I relate to what you're saying.

It's unclear whether you're still living at home with mom or living on your own now. I think if you're not independent that should be your focus right now. Get yourself free.

I think being independent and being away from your mother for an extended period will give you a wealth of insight as well as peace of mind. Stay away as much as you can. It's obvious she upsets you greatly and you need the space and autonomy to nurture yourself for a while.

We don't always get the parents we deserve. It's a shame, but there's hope on the other side in adulthood.

I'm really sorry about being so incoherent - I suppose I wanted insight, who's right and who's wrong. Am I bratty and abusive and trying to make myself into a victim, or are the social workers' claims that I've been mentally abused correct? Or am I just an insane freak overreacting to totally normal things?

What prompted this is that I did move out - I basically ran away about 4 months ago. I've been on welfare those few months (which could be a thread all by itself, I have so much guilt and shame about the way I handled my money, and feeling like a worthless leech), and I'll be getting off soon since I have employment now. I live on my own, but the calls still don't stop. Like I said, she's even called me at work.

Another huge problem is that I'm still on her health insurance, and that seems to be a reason for her continuing to be in my life - "If you want nothing to do with me, stop taking my money". I've honestly considered moving out of state to get away. This afternoon she talked about making "arrangements" so that we never have to speak to each other again. Which doesn't make sense to me: why do you need legal arrangements to leave me the hell alone??

It's like I'm free yet not free, and this lessening ability to control my temper around her is worrying me.

"If you want nothing to do with me, stop taking my money." I've heard that before!

It sounds like she's manipulative and controlling. I come from a similar household and it was very important to my father to be involved in my finances, whether that meant paying for my phone, my insurance, *giving* me a car (but it was in his name). Some parents want to keep their kids helpless so they'll need them. They might even complain that the kid is a freeloader or too dependent, but it's a situation of their own making, they love to play the martyr and complain while also making sure you can't sever ties with them (they must know they're terrible to be around).

I tend to agree with the social worker, too, because he/she is a third party with a lot of information. It's not like they go doling out that kind of advice to everyone. Something must be amiss.

I understand where you're at. I had that "last tie" to sever before I was free. It was the car. I had to save up money for 6 months in order to afford to buy a used one and it was torture having to wait that long.

You will be free. Just be patient with yourself. It's not you're fault you're in this position and you're taking all the necessary steps to get yourself to a better place.

It's horrible that she won't give you your space. It's just more evidence that she doesn't have appropriate boundaries and doesn't respect yours. I understand if you lose your temper with her. All I can say is, don't get physical!

I changed my phone number and blocked my father from my email. He has my address, but he lives 1900 miles away. Hasn't shown up on my doorstep yet. If you say you want to move out of state, I'd support that decision. It's a relief knowing I'll never leave the house and run into the narcissistic miser.

I think you have a;
Engulfing narcissistic mother. A mother who 'owns you' who is ALWAYS right, and you? You, are always wrong.

If the daughter ever does try to assert her individuality, perhaps in her teen years (which is another natural point at which people individuate further), the engulfing mother will react badly. She may manifest Narcissistic Rage at attempts by the daughter to separate, and terrorise the daughter into submission. Or she may sneer or gaslight the daughter. This can be hugely shocking to the daughter who'd never known anything but approval and (what felt like) love before. The tactics vary, but the result remains the same: an engulfed and trapped daughter.

engulfing mother - daughters of narcissistic mothers

I don't know if it's as black and white as who is right or wrong, though I do believe you're being abused verbally, mentally, and emotionally. Some of the things you've experienced are exactly what my mother used to do and/or say to me as I was growing up. It was only the two of us--she shunned all relationships, and all but demanded I do the same. While I'm somewhat introverted, I'm an only child and had kind of a natural inclination to make friends at school. As I got into high school, she didn't handle this well and the abuse got worse. It was something that was incredibly defeating, caused me to be somewhat "stunted" in my relationships with others, and I never had any real security growing up. But long story incredibly short, I was put into foster care at 15 and that is the last time I saw her. Though I will always bear scars from that upbringing--I don't know how to read people, tend to default to always being on alert in relationships, and my horrible trust issues are almost legendary within my friend group, lol--I am thankful that I got out when I did because I believe that it saved me.

Point is that I think you have a decision to make: continue to be put down and belittled or care for yourself no matter what. It's not an easy decision. Believe me, I've had to make it on more than one occasion and at the expense of more than one family relationship.

I've mentioned the whole "mental abuse" thing to my mom, and she just ells me that they haven't heard her side yet, and once they do, they'll have no sympathy for me, especially since she's richer and smarter and has documentation for how much I've leeched off her, or something like that. The thought of it terrifies me, and yes, it makes me doubt my own perceptions. Like I said, what if I'm some kind of sick narcissist trying to get attention and sympathy, when I'm actually hurting everyone around me? I had a thread a little while ago about how my mom basically had a breakdown after I left, how she's had multiple mental health emergencies and has been in and out of therapy in the last few months, due to the shock of my up and leaving...that it's my fault basically.

Over the last few years I kept wondering why my mom never taught me little life skills. She insists she did, I just refused to learn, or she expected me to learn by watching. Or, she didn't want to be one of those parents who raises their daughter to be a housewife, so she figured I could learn to cook and clean when I had to (to be fair, I did pick up some things about self-care, especially cooking).

I've never gotten too physical in the past. We've had minor physical altercations, usually not more than slapping or hair-pulling (always her on me though, I've honestly been too afraid of what she might do if I ever hit her. Hell, I once tried to push her out of my room because she had woken me up every couple hours throughout the night and I just wanted to sleep...and she threatened to break my arms when I pushed. while my mental health was on the decline I would throw massive, screaming tantrums that included self-harm that was, frankly, turning aggression on myself. It seems kind of pathetic: I want to slap you but I can't do that, so I'll just bash my own head with a door).

The idea with boundaries seems to be if you're a useless deadbeat, or otherwise a dependent, you don't get boundaries. My house, my rules. If I want to wake you up in the middle of the night to talk about nothing, or ask you to find something for me because I keep weird hours, there's nothing you can do about it since you don't even pay to live here. She talked a while ago about my moving back home, saying that now that I'm a working adult I would "need my own space"...I'm sorry, why didn't I get that before?

I can't help but feel like I'm something of a scapegoat at times. Some of the things I've heard from my mom - you living here is so awful it drives me to drink, I can't sleep normal hours because at night is the only time I'm certain of where you are and what you're doing, I'm having a breakdown because of your leaving.

I'll be honest, I feel infantilized. I have for a long time. Even little things, like how when I lived at home, one of my mom's gripes was that I don't say good morning to her, or how if I left the house I was expected to leave a detailed, time-date-stamped note explaining where I was, what time I left, and when I would be back. My mother insists I'm not street smart and can't handle myself. During those years at home post-dropout, I told someone online about the kinds of things she claimed would happen to me if I left - this person said they fell into the "terrorizing" form of emotional abuse. Things like how if I went to a shelter, I would be beaten and raped and have everything I own stolen within the first 24 hours (I lived in a shelter for 4 days and the worst thing that happened was I got scolded for lying down on a couch), or that if I found a job, my coworkers would beat me half to death if they caught me reading during a break (my mom is ridiculously classist and it's always frustrated me. Her explanation for illogical things like this is "That's what those kinds of low-life people do. They hate anyone that's different"). Insane stuff that makes no sense.

She claims she didn't want me to remain at home, but to follow a respectable path, go to college or training, or get a proper job. Not run away, take welfare for several months before begging my way into a job.

Sorry to ramble there, guess I'm just letting thoughts pour out.

And yet there's still a back-and-forth emotionally. She'll be calling me a ***** and a loser in one phone message and telling me she loves me and is worried in another. I've gotten this for years, a seeming push-and-pull of care. Coupled with mood shifts it always worried me....though I should probably mention my mom has recently been diagnosed (at last!) with a form of bipolar disorder. That's basically gone untreated her entire life - though I'm not sure if that plays in. Neither of us are healthy, mentally.

Isn't it logical that if you aren't helping with bills as an adult in one's parents home, that one is expected to move out?

I wanted to focus on this, because it struck me.

I mentioned in my previous post (if you want to go through that wall of text, lol) that my mom is a ridiculous classist. That and genuine difference from people around us is why she didn't have any friends in the area (just a few old friends from school that she talked to occasionally on the phone). For the most part, we were a white collar family in a blue-collar area. My mom was often one of the only people in a group who had a college degree, and basically had nothing in common with other parents. I can half-understand it.

Me? I was naturally asocial for years, and my parents didn't believe in forcing socialization. According to my mom, I often appeared depressed around other children, but perked right up when I came home. I naturally pushed people away, rejected invitations, etc. People here on PC have suggested it's some kind of intimacy fear. My social interest only began to kick in during my late teens. Basically it was never addressed when I wonder if it could have been.

Add to that the fact that both my parents are quite introverted. In fact, my mom has brushed off my concerns about my asociality with that: I worry about how distant and separate I am from other people, how difficult I find it to make friends or relate to others. My mom just told me "Your father and I are the same way. There's nothing wrong with it." Well it bothers me, isn't that enough?

I don't mention my dad because he hasn't been around for most of my life: he died when I was 7. It's mostly just been me and my mom: I remember she used to call us "the world's smallest family", and had this subtle emphasis on staying together, supporting each other, etc, that I seldom really felt. Admittedly, I did fear losing her - when she was in a deep depression she would sometimes talk about suicide, and yes, I was terrified of being an orphan. Yet now I realize how much that emphasis on togetherness has changed. In the last few years when I tried to get counseling, my mom developed this attitude that if anyone suggests she did something wrong, or was exasperating my issues, let alone causing them, they were "trying to turn me against her"...against "the only person who cares about [me]", which quite frankly, disturbs me.

I guess so. Provided one has a place to go and some kind of income with which to support oneself.

Of course stability matters, but that doesn't "cause emotional breakdowns." Maybe a little empty nesting. I find it hard to believe that a legal lawsuit would hold up in court if a parent made a choice to support their grown child. That's their choice.

Ah, that's what you were getting at. I thought you were criticizing my living at home for free - the main reason I did so is because I had nowhere to go otherwise (no friends or family in the area), and no way to contribute to bills. I could do a little house and lawn work and that was it. Sure, I'd have paid some if I had a job, but if I had any money at all it was cash my mom gave me.

But yeah, I wonder about her threats of legal action. Supposedly the resources I consumed were "stolen" because of my not-paying, also the emotional damage caused by my behavior. Or so my mom claims.

That sounds very familiar.

I don't know what made me break away. I think it was the state getting involved through the actions of a friend's parent. My mother would regularly kick me out of the house, ever since I was 7 years old--one time I was in nothing but an oversized tshirt and this was in the dead middle of a South Dakota winter. One time she chased me out of the house with a knife and I finally decided that was enough--I begged quarters (this was back in the days of pay phones) off of strangers and called my friends until someone came to pick me up. I stayed with a friend, borrowing her clothes, for a week until my mother demanded I come home or she would turn me in as a runaway. I refused. The cops came, and I told them some things that made them decide not to take me home (basically made threats against myself). Yes, I did manipulate them, but I was NOT going home. I was taken to an...idk...halfway house? Detention center? I awaited a court hearing and eventually did get sent home but the difference was that the state was now involved and visiting weekly, plus we were ordered to go to weekly counseling, together and separately. All of this (and a LOT more) is what eventually led to my being put in foster care. Point is that I had to put my foot down; I was just freaking done. I think in high school I had some sort of foresight about what my life would look like if I continued in the same environment, and it wasn't good. I'm not saying my life was rainbows and kittens otherwise, but I definitely had more choices and room to heal. And now things are pretty good.

I definitely wish the best for you.

Why on earth would I sit here to criticize?

No need to explain how things are when living at home. Of course the average parent willingly helps their child regain their foothold.

Don't allow yourself to subject yourself to feeling powerless to this nonsense on your mother's part.

Maybe you did have your share of heated arguments with her. It was her duty to settle the situation down, not you. Lead by example, they say.

Sure. But living under one's roof doesn't mean you can treat them poorly, whether they're an adult or a child. That's what abuse is.

ScientiaOmnisEst I can't imagine your mom has a leg to stand on in court. It's incredible the lengths she's gone to in order to make you sweat. It amounts to emotional torture.

Money is power, huh? It's also success, achievement, self esteem, happiness, contentment -- oh wait the people who believe that never seem to have any of those things.

I relate to everything you said. I wasn't allowed boundaries either (even physical boundaries) because dad put a roof over my head.

I know all this makes you feel crazy while you're in the thick of it, but it will get better. The fact that you're so insightful, you recognize the situation, you're being proactive and trying to care for yourself, it speaks volumes about where you're headed. The fact that you've kept it together this long means you're incredibly strong, much stronger than you probably realize. You didn't put yourself into this situation. You're making all the right moves to get out of this carefully laid trap.