Shyness and relationships

Hello all,

I'm a shy man who is relatively successful in education and work, and who has some personal interests like riding the bike, reading, cooking, playing video games (if that counts), walking, watching movies, ... etc. However, I have difficulties making relationships. As you can see my interests are mostly private, I prefer to do them alone, and they don't involve other people. Even if there are other people around me, say in the movies, I won't talk to any one. Also in my workplace meeting someone is out of question. I've tried online dating sites, but didn't work. I'm sure you can see the dilemma by now: how to find someone while you're that reserved? Do some women even like shy men, or they are perceived negatively by all women? I know I need to approach some women and try, but I always become nervous around women, and my voice and hands will be shaking. Yes, it's that bad, and I guess these are not good signs for women, but do women understand that it's difficult for some men to make the move, or they expect men to be confident before approaching them? I'm not that bad in talking after knowing the person and feel more relaxed. The beginnings are just the hardest.

Thanks

Not sure about your shyness question since I'm sure I know some.

Depends on the woman as far as wanting to be approached, which would require a twinge of self confidence. I think the entire online aspect has skewered the way people form relationships. I for one, prefer the old fashioned way of meeting people, but at this point in my life, it's neither here nor there because I honestly cannot fathom where romance could squeeze into this life that I have.

So all in all I'm probably not the best person to answer this thread.

Thanks. You may not have given solutions to my questions, but you gave some insights.

I understand that women need confident men to be able to take care of them and the demands of life (this is the only reason I can think of, at least). I'm confident in other settings in my life, and I speak up and defend my rights. So, I'm not sure why confidence in approaching women is that important, and a deal breaker for many!! It's an automatic reaction I guess. For me, I just have problems in initiating a talk with women. I'm working on it, but I need to go through some rejections to get it right, which I'm not sure if I can endure.

I agree about the online part, but I also think romance/Love cannot be predicted where it could squeeze.

It's not so much that it's a deal breaker, it's just that someone has to be the first to approach the other person, otherwise nothing will happen honestly, I wouldn't care if someone was nervous. I'd much prefer someone shy over someone too confident/arrogant.

Just depends on what type of woman you go for, I guess. Someone who is shy herself might be more open to a shy guy.....

Thanks. I understand that men need to approach women, but could it work just because a man attempts the approach regardless of how (of course with being polite and not rude)? I'm not sure. You said you wouldn't care if he's nervous, but what does that really mean? Would you try for example to help keep the conversation rolling and make it easier for him? You also made a comparison between shy and arrogant men (by equating confident with arrogant, which I didn't mean).

For shy women the role is passive. I would do much better if someone initiated a talk with me. But for me initiating a conversation, I play all these scenarios in my head, which makes me so nervous, and most of the time to abort the attempt.

By the way, I initiated talks with some women (not necessarily for romantic relationships), but because I needed to kick the initiation every time, I felt that they are not interested, and thus stopped the process after a couple of times. If they were, then they didn't help me. Which is fine, and I understand it, but it's harder for some men to initiate and keep the momentum.

I hope you are looking for someone who matches your shyness to some degree. I dated seriously a shy introvert who was a wonderful person (I initiated it), but as I was neither shy nor an introvert the continual disconnect on socializing really began to weigh me down. And he began to resent me.

Anyway, your interests can definitely be solitary, but they can also be great with someone you connect with. I'm not sure how 2 shy folks meet each other . . . through friends/acquaintances and online dating sites would seem like good avenues, although the dating sites are not your preference. (Are they really anyone's?) Coffee shops, libraries, museums, the gym, perhaps. Hey, what about a cooking class?

I've been to gyms, libraries, and coffee shops, but then what? What to say for example to get someone's attention without making fun of myself? Obviously flirting is not the door, as many stated so in their online profiles. I've tried on online dating sites to comment on things they say or show, and the responses were nil most of the time. So I'm thinking why in real life things would be different? I may be wrong.

It's ironic when I think about it: I get nervous of being rejected because of being nervous. Nervousness begets nervousness.

I strongly relate to your post and what is interesting is even if I successfully meet a woman, it isn't long before I feel crowded and begin to miss my alone time. I struggle with the issue am I just wanting my alone time and hobbies or is it simply I haven't met the right lady yet.

I actually disagree that it needs to be the man who approaches the woman, I just said that someone had to do it. You think a lot of men approach shy women? Maybe if they have supermodel looks..... I personally never get approached by men at all. So I don't think it is any easier for shy women at all.

I also did not say confident is the same as arrogant.

What does it mean that I don't care if someone's nervous? Well, I wouldn't run away screaming or laugh - or think negatively of someone just because they are nervous. I probably wouldn't try to keep the conversation going, simply because I have zero social skills.

I do feel a little more confident when the other person is shy as well but it makes the conversation more difficult...... So really I can't give you any advice, I only wanted to answer your initial question in your first post that yes, there are women who prefer shy men..... But it's not always easy to get to know them.

OK, thanks for clarifying. I appreciate your response. I was under the impression that if you have to choose between a shy and confident/arrogant (to me this combination meant arrogantly confident), then you prefer shy guys. Which would've implied that if you have to choose between a shy and a normal confident guy, you would choose the confident guy, probably. Which is understandable even if it was the case, as I said before.

What I meant is that usually men who make the first move. I'm not sure about the supermodel hypothesis, because men are less selective than you think. I assure you that. For me personally, I try to approach normal women, and they are not even fit. Today, I tried to talk to a girl who sat on the same table where I was having my lunch, I could say she was a little overweight, but she was beautiful nonetheless. Of course, I didn't . Women are harsh on themselves when it comes to beauty.

Have you considered seeking help from a therapist?

Not really.

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I've got some good news for you. There are women who absolutely adore shy men. I know a few couples like that, and their relationships are extremely close. The challenge for you is to encounter such a woman. As you've discovered, some women really do expect the man to take most of the initiative. But that is not all women. You just have to circulate and be willing to expose yourself to a lot of women. That increases the odds of you encountering the kind of woman who will give you the encouragement you need.

Don't keep your existance a secret and you might mention to people in your daily life that you are shopping for romance. A huge turn-on for some women is when another woman tells them that a certain guy likes them. So, if you find it hard to tell a woman directly, talk of your interest to others who know the woman. They will pass that on to her, and she might then meet you more than half-way.

Don't make the huge mistake of thinking that, because some women don't respond to you, then that means no woman will. Also, tell yourself that it won't kill you to get some rejection. That is part if the process. You have to think like a salesman. Maybe most of the people he approaches decline to buy the product, which just means he has to make his pitch to a lot of prospective customers.

Here's an important thing to know. It is a turn off to a woman to think that a man has approached her because he is looking for a girlfriend. A woman wants to believe that you have approached her because something special about her is making you interested. Often you can't really know what is special about a woman, until after you have started dating her. But never let on that you just want to try her out like test-driving a car, even if that is the truth. Get in the habit of talking to every woman you meet as though you find her unusual and remarkable.

My theory is that a woman will either like or not like a man. If she finds him attractive and if he established eye contact with her (very important), she will be responsive, even if he is shy and even if they are both in a noisy crowd. If he doesn't speak very loud she will lean towards him. She will draw him out. On the other hand, if he is an extrovert and she is attracted to him, she will laugh at his silly jokes. He may talk very loud and make her blush but if she is attracted to him she will put up with all kinds of crazy behavior, even rudeness. Extroverted men can be clownish and kind of rude and somehow get away with it!

It's mainly a numbers game. Men who find women to date are relentless searchers. They keep at it. They will talk to everyone. They will flirt with all women regardless of age, or appearance...just for practice. Women know it is a numbers game, too, and they also know it is fiercely competitive. Young women who are very serious about finding someone will diet, exercise, and diet some more. Because men are visual women know they must look appealing. Even at the gym. Everywhere they go there may be a potential mate in the area. A woman doesn't have to be a model but she has to have a sparkly confidence. She has to play up her strengths.

If you want a girlfriend I would advise you...get fierce. I mean...realize that men are in competition for women...and you are going to join that competition. You need to start talking to women everywhere, and noting what makes them smile, what makes them laugh. Or be shy and mysterious, BUT learn how to make eye contact and just smile a little smile. That can be pretty sexy, the man hiding halfway behind a black cape! Smoking cigarettes is now yukky, but it used to be that men smoked to keep calm and look cool. I know this because I grew up with a bunch of brothers. They carried cigarettes but didn't really smoke except when out and around girls -- and needing to appear calm. Nowadays I don't know what men do. Maybe they twirl their bike helmet!

You remind me of someone. He had similar problems as you. He seems to have left this community for awhile. I wonder if he is hiding out in his cave, busy developing a game plan.

I pass on this information from experience. In many ways the dating game is a cruel, cruel game, and not for the fainthearted. You may be dating someone and feel it is not going anywhere so you dump them. You feel a bit guilty, but relieved. The next thing you know --- you fall head over heels with a girl, she leads you on, you are in love, and then she dumps you! It is the game of the dumpee and the dumper. My girlfriends and I never liked to dump someone because we were superstitious. We always said if you dump someone then you will get dumped within a year. Often it happened like that. A cruel game.

Until finally you will be exhausted and you will tell yourself you are ready to go back into your man cave and remain single for 33 years.

Then suddenly --- there she is! Unexpectedly. Surprisingly. Excitingly. But remember, you did your homework and that is how you got to this place, now knowing exactly what to do and say to draw her into your world, perhaps forever.

I like shy men. Now i don't like men who accomplished nothing in life, but shy is no problem. I am not shy myself

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I always dated extroverted Alpha men. Always. But they wear you down.

Starting up conversations are so easy for some people, me being one of them. The other day I was in an elevator full of people at a business fair. It was awkward standing there in silence. There was a man in front of me holding a box. I asked "What's in the box?" And he started talking with me and filled the silence with some light conversation, breaking the ice.

Did you and the attractive woman just sit at a table, eating, not speaking at all? I hope someone outgoing just breaks the ice with you, if you feel too shy to do it yourself.

It doesn't even matter what you say. You could just look at her, smile, and say hi.

If she seems really closed off and gives you the cold shoulder, then just back off. But I have always found people happy to chat.

reading through your initial post and your responses I have come to a point that I would like to make you aware of. You make many assumptions in your outlook and perspective on this whole thing. first,

"I understand that women need confident men to be able to take care of them and the demands of life (this is the only reason I can think of, at least). I'm confident in other settings in my life, and I speak up and defend my rights. So, I'm not sure why confidence in approaching women is that important, and a deal breaker for many!! It's an automatic reaction I guess. For me, I just have problems in initiating a talk with women. I'm working on it, but I need to go through some rejections to get it right, which I'm not sure if I can endure."

First assumption that is really not accurate is the one bolded. Partially anyway but it assumes that shyness, reserved personalities and introversion is the opposite of confidence.

Also by stating that women "need" what you've stated makes a huge assumption that all women are after being taken care of etc. Pure bs. Some want that, others do not. Dont' lump them all in one big group that women are all alike and want some set scenario.

"Thanks. I understand that men need to approach women..."

Not true. It helps if the female or the male approaches the other but there is no rule stating that the male needs to be the one to initiate. Speaking from experience, I have been approached by the women I've been with in almost every relationship I ended up in. This happens and there is nothing wrong with the female doing the approaching.

"For shy women the role is passive."

Again this assumes that males need to be the one to approach etc. So when a female is shy in your thinking it's passive because they are not responsible for being the one approaching. Simply untrue.

"you have to choose between a shy and a normal confident guy"

I don't agree with your thinking here in that shy guy is the opposite of "normal" and "confident" Don't for a second assume that your introvertedness is odd or weird. Thing is there are far more introverts and shy guys in the world than the world allows you to see... after all we are the quietly reserved ones in the groups so the introverts of the world are not making themselves known... they are in the background. Introverts are entirely normal and fine but different. Some have said that the world is really run by the introverted. I dunno if I believe or agree with that but truth is that the outgoing tend to steal the spotlight and not really because they are trying to but because that is how they are, they are social, outgoing, verbally louder than us, so they are always seen.

Please embrace your shyness and realize the potentially positive traits of your personality. Stop making it an obstacle and use it to your advantage, do what you naturally do and be confident in that. it will show in the end. Trying too hard to be something that you're not is always going to end in utter failure to achieve the goal.

Thanks. I'll read it. I conceptually know why I'm shy, but this knowledge hasn't helped me. I'm open minded, though, because I want to change. Congratulations that you beat your shyness

Thanks. You're right, my challenge is meeting a woman, and not sustaining a relationship. I think shyness is a mild term for my social anxiety, which prevails in all of my social life. So, I don't have even friends, or anyone to connect with me and me with others. I know this isn't good (first not for me but also) if a woman knows that. This might be perceived as a red flag about me. Right? I'm not the beast Aristotle talked about.

I think the repeated encounters will tell which direction it will take, and I'm cool with any outcome. At the moment, I'm thinking just to talk to some women, without any further plans. Just a little chat, and let her decides if she wants to talk more or again. Later, when I'm more confident, may be I'll make some invitations. I'm not sure if that sounds a good plan.

I used to hide in my shell, so, no wonder why no one notices me. But in the last couple of days, I've changed my strategy, and began to sit in some open spaces where there are a lot of people. But the thing is that, when I sit in those places, I don't sit and look around, which would make me look weird. I keep my head down in my eReader reading a book, or in my phone. This might be perceived that I'm not interested to talk, if anyone is ready to make a move, which negates the whole idea of being there in the first place!!!

Thanks. The problem of eye contact with me happens before talking. No way I can look at a woman and make an eye contact with her when she's close to me. I sense sometimes they look at me, but I'm not sure because I don't look at them. I don't know why . But when I talk I keep an eye contact, at least most of the time, and I smile, at least once or twice. I did it recently in some work setting. But it was awkward nonetheless. I didn't think of dating as you said, but I think you're description is fair

The thing is that I've accomplished many things, but ended up alone and lonely. So, this has begun to affect my performance at work and I'm loosing interests, because they in themselves mean nothing (For example, I've read many books, and I think I know a lot of stuff, but have never had the chance to talk about them). May be they give you joy momentarily, but without sharing them they loose their values, in my opinion. I know loosing my interests and skills will make my chances even slimmer, but it's difficult to keep the momentum with no real change.

I'm not a big fan of the term "alpha male", because it implies there are "beta males". I'm not sure if those exist in humans. Males are different, that's all. Some are better at things, like approaching women, while others may be better at other things, like sustaining a relationship.

Thanks. I wish I could see it as easy as you do. That girl, she was with her friends, and they came to my table because I was the only one on the table, so, they asked if there was anyone else on the table, and then her friends went to buy something from the cafeteria, while she stayed alone on the table with me. I guess they reserved some space, and she stayed to watch their stuff. Anyway, no, I didn't talk neither did she. It's not the idea that I initiate something that dreads me the most, but what's next. I thought of telling her something ready in my mind, but then I was afraid that I couldn't follow up (which made me nervous), which would make things awkward. I think you're right. I talked to a couple of girls, but no one declined me upfront, but I found the least awkward conversation goes when I'm not prepared and when I don't think too much. That's why I think I would do much better if some initiates the talk with and surprises me, because most of the time I overthink the possible scenarios