I wrote earlier about a man I've known for over a decade who I'd recently sparked kind of an online...thing with, then subsequently pushed away with some insecurity and mismanagement of a lot of stress going on in my life. I'd also been talking, in a few threads, about how I wrote and sent a concise letter, taking responsibility for my actions, stating somewhat how I felt about him (not gushing, just that I had been insecure about being totally transparent before, and now I was being more so), apologizing for my actions, and saying, "I don't want to not know you." The letter was sent last Wednesday (he lives 8 hours away from me), and Monday morning, I got a text with a photo of his hand holding the letter, and another which read, "Reading and considering. I would like us to keep knowing each other." I told him to take his time, I would be here. He texted again a few hours later and said, "Forgiven, btw."

We shared a few subsequent texts of no consequence, and I asked him later how his evening was going. And he is responsive, but there seems to be...something. My problem is that I don't know what exactly he wants from me at this time. I plainly asked, stating I didn't need a big discussion, that it was just a request for information. And he said he didn't want anything from me right now other than a little communication, if I wished. I said sure. I then said that I'd just assumed I was still leaving him in peace to consider, as he'd said earlier. His simple reply was, "I missed talking with you."

I'm happy to be forgiven, and I think that's huge given that I pushed pretty hard and was pretty darned rotten (which is even worse considering his ex-wife's emotional abuse was instrumental in a breakdown he had 10 years ago...I wasn't abusive, but I was kinda mean). And I'm not his girlfriend; he truly owes me nothing. However, we've known each other for over a decade and been in each other's orbit now for about four years. The things we talked about before we'd had our rift were pretty intense, and now it's like...I don't know. I am okay with whatever he wants; I'm fine letting him take the lead on this. I think I know why he is responding/reacting the way he's reacting. My insecure self jumps to all kinds of conclusions: He's having second thoughts, or he's talking to someone else who has completely rocked his world. As I said, I'm not his girlfriend so it's possible, but it's been 17 days since he was telling me I was the best thing since sliced bread and this guy is pretty legit so...it's not probable. Actually, neither of those things are that logical.

I guess I need some clearer boundaries. Or do I? Guys, I haven't been around really any healthy relationships really ever. And my family's idea of handling conflict was to a) run away from it b) manipulate the other person or c) out-yell/out-anger the other party. I'm doing the best I can, and could use other, outside perspectives.

PS I mean it when I say this man is legit. I have been able to observe and interact with him for a long time, and he's solid. My best chance at something with a decent guy is probably someone long distance...the distance at least is a buffer to keep me from effing it up til I can stop being so paranoid. At least he's no stranger to MI, having battled it himself.

Okay. About 10 minutes after I posted this, he texted (he was just getting home) and the exchange felt totally normal. I'd rather talk on the phone or Skype (it's just easier for me to see and hear the person I'm speaking with), but I don't need that tonight. The guy has been going since early this morning and has said he's tired...save it for another day.

Things are fine. This is why I come on here and post rather than fire off a needy, demanding text, because preserving my friendship with this person is more important to me than the momentary need of getting my paranoid insecurities pacified--yeah, I want to feel secure, but I have that by now from this person. Time to use some skills and work my way out of feeling like a little ball of wahhh.

(Thanks for letting me be a little ball of wahhhhh on here.)

[Trippin2.0]

I have an "evidence box" and a "bf bashing journal"....

The former is for me to look through when I need reassurance, because my bf is legit and I don't want him repeating himself all the time, my insecurities are my problem.

The latter is for when I feel the overwhelming compulsion to spew vitriol at him.

I write exactly what I want to say to him in the journal, no holds barred, then sit on it for a week.

In that week I probably edit it at least 10 times, if by the end of the week the content is relevant and not just a bpd trippin episode, I say what I need to say, but am much calmer by then so its minus the vitriol and we can discuss calmly.

These two coping skills have saved my relationship as I also used to push and shove... Once I pushed him so far out the door it took him a year to find my house again!

When we got back together he made "pushing" his deal breaker, he just can't deal with it, he finds it emotionally abusive, extremely confusing as well as hurtful.

So I wasn't exaggerating when I said these two methods have saved my relationship.

Great post! Thank you! I will try those things!

We aren't really dating, per se. That's the thing, I don't have any definition, and I'm someone who needs lines drawn a little more clear. I know life isn't black and white and that this is sometimes really frustrating for someone. But I do feel like I'm in limbo right now, and I think at some point I'm going to need more defined boundaries. I don't know why I'm still blocked on social media, for example, and my brain wants to go to worst-case scenario. For my own self-worth, there are certain things I kinda need to ask. If that makes sense. I'm willing to go with the flow, but I can't drift in the wind all the time. It's just not how I work.

[Trippin2.0]

For the most part, me neither, and when we got back together things felt very "up in the air" for me, which was scary as all hell!


But I will say this though, going with the flow, at his pace, and just trusting my bf's character and his intentions, was very challenging, yet the most effective "exposure therapy" I could have ever asked for.


It taught me to trust the strength of our relationship, it taught me to stop looking for signs that he was about to jump ship, it taught me to self soothe, and best of all I think, it taught me to stop catastrophesizing.


I have MUCH less relationship anxiety now than I had before these changes took place.


I'm not cured, my mind still likes to run away with me, and I still get insecure, but for the most part I am pretty good at reigning it in.


And when I'm not, or when I'm struggling he's more than willing to help put my mind at ease because he's noticed the change in me.


Ps. Glad I could be of some help Practice really does make perfect. Or perfectish at least.

Good you return to the communication state. But for how long do yo think you can accept vagueness in communication? I mean it's possible that he is talking to someone else, and if he does, it's better for you to know to decide what to do early on. You mentioned once you could meet in the midway between you and him. Are you still considering this? Talking online is all good, but a meeting and a clear goal are very important.

I feel like I'm doing better. But it's not been that long. The better I do, the more that little part of my brain wants to tell me stupid, illogical things.

What's logical: this guy knows how I feel about him. He wouldn't have bothered to come back into my life if he didn't want to.

What's illogical: There's someone else he's chatting up in some other city, he's got multiple women he's paying attention to, he just wants his ego stroked, he isn't who he says he is. Ugh, it's so stupid. We talk via text most of the evening, he wouldn't have time to talk to anyone else. Also...just...why?

[Trippin2.0]

"Also...just...why?"


Exactly.

I also like to add that I know I'm very high maintenance at times, so where's the logic in investing so much time in me for an ego stroke or whatever, if there are supposedly other "simpler" women waiting in the wings?


Know what I mean?


I also got blocked from FB at one stage, and this logic helped ease my panic and fears.


Just doesn't make sense to invest so much time, (we live 30 minutes apart), money and effort into working things out with me if there are available women at his fingertips.


True it helps that he actually said those words (after I tried convincing myself) but I thought I'd share them with you nonetheless.

He does have a history of dating some he's met the same way he met me. Hey, we all get sick of the local dating pool. But we all have a history of lots of things. The past is the past. He is far more type B, laid back than I am, and it is necessary for my to just go with the flow of I'm interested in communicating with him.

We have texted a ton, spoken on the phone a bit, but last time was our first Skype and it was great! But I got super shy all of a sudden! And he enjoyed every minute of that, haha! I felt badly about being shy for a bit because I think some men find that to be a turn off, but at one point he said, "That blush of yours is just so darned cute." I fired back, "Oh, you're just eating my discomfort up, aren't you?" He just smiled and said, "Very much." And I just can't even with that Eastern Tennessee accent.

It doesn't make sense that there is someone else. Given that he said he was single at the beginning of April, and I believe him (he's not a liar), it makes no logical sense. There isn't time--time spent not talking to me he's working or living his life. Like, I don't keep track of him, but he alludes to what he's doing.

And yet, that little part of my brain STILL wants to fight me: he doesn't feel the way I feel. I'm just a passing flirtation. I'm just a pass time. I wish that part of my brain would just shut the **** up!!! Just enjoy a man saying you're beautiful, negative little part of my brain! Stop trying to ruin everything nice for me!

PS I'm not blocked anymore. I asked him point blank why I was still blocked and he said just because he hadn't gotten around to unblocking. I told him I figured that...I came clean and said there would be times, very few, when I'd ask dumb questions because part of my brain wants to spew illogical BS at me and it's just easier to ask for clarification. I said it wouldn't happen often. He said, "That's fine. It's flattering when I know you've been stalking me on FB anyway." I think I've been demonstrating that my behavior is not the same as before, anyway.

[RomanSunburn]

I had that little (occasionally very loud) voice in my head about my husband leaving me pretty much up to the day we got married. And that's after being together for, what, 7 years? It wasn't always too bad, but every so often it would come out of nowhere, and I'd just be a wreck. Probably not what you wanted to hear. But then seeing him so happy on our wedding day... it finally clicked.

Sounds like the two of you are back on track I think it's good you're being proactive about your insecurities.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I have an "evidence box" and a "bf bashing journal"....

The former is for me to look through when I need reassurance, because my bf is legit and I don't want him repeating himself all the time, my insecurities are my problem.

The latter is for when I feel the overwhelming compulsion to spew vitriol at him.

I write exactly what I want to say to him in the journal, no holds barred, then sit on it for a week.

In that week I probably edit it at least 10 times, if by the end of the week the content is relevant and not just a bpd trippin episode, I say what I need to say, but am much calmer by then so its minus the vitriol and we can discuss calmly.

These two coping skills have saved my relationship as I also used to push and shove... Once I pushed him so far out the door it took him a year to find my house again!

When we got back together he made "pushing" his deal breaker, he just can't deal with it, he finds it emotionally abusive, extremely confusing as well as hurtful.

So I wasn't exaggerating when I said these two methods have saved my relationship.

Oh my gosh, trippin, I admire you for being able to cope this way and have formulated your own method to do so. This seems so effective and wish I could do the same. albeit, if... I had a gf again haha. XD This is good information. Sorry this response isn't at the OP :/

Okay.

Should it bother me that he doesn't text me to ask how I am during the day, or interact with me on social media? Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one initiating...but then again, this time around, I haven't really given him a chance...

Ugh!

I KNOW I'm probably being dumb. But this is the place to do it, hey? Not in real life, where I might have serious repercussions!

[Trippin2.0]

Things might still be a bit raw for him, he's probably treading carefully.


Exercise a little patience and compassion, but by all means, if it feels too one sided for too long, address it with him calmly.


@S4, thank you, your message means alot to me. I hope you do get to make use of my tricks in future.

[divine1966]

At this stage I wouldn't worry about interacting during the day as it might be just taking it slow kind of thing plus it depends on a type of job one does. I would give it more time but after some time I think it will be ok to ask about it but now as long as you interact at some point like talking some evenings etc it's okay. Keep building friendship with him and when you feel bothered with things come on here for distraction and blowing steam. It's safe on here

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[Chyialee]

Tripp, I would like to second this: how smart I think you are w/ these self-care tactics. Amazingness. <3

In our relationship, it is Crazyman who's the "push push push" person, and he's really good at it, heh. But he hasn't your ability to back off a couple of paces & look at this with less passion but more perspective. I get it that his anxieties kinda take him over, & when that's the case it is just exactly like living w/a pre-schooler... yeow!

It feels very manipulative, which also feels like bullying. He's better than he was when he was 23, but holycow!

So yeah, OP, from the viewpoint of a very difficult and resentful-of-pushy-partner-tactics woman, I gotta say the best thing imo is just to ease back, relax, and let the relationship come into its own on its own terms. Hard to do, I'm sure -- but if a friendship is to be real, it cannot be forced nor demanded into existence, can it?

Very best of luck, hon.

xo
Chyia, on the other end of the :seesaw:

Yeah. He didn't text or anything today. Before, the exchange was pretty mutual--one of us would always say hello by lunchtime, at least.

This feels one-sided, and pretty superficial on his end, as he tends to flirt with me more than anything else. Before, it was deeper and I felt like he liked ME. Now, I feel like I'm just someone he passes the time with. He said that my letter touched him, but not anything about feeling the same way I felt.

But I know if I bring it up tonight, four days after we started talking again, it would be pushing too much. I just feel like I know what's going on, and I want to save myself the pain of disappointment. If he feels like there's possibly something here, then I'll chill. If not...Idk if I can put myself through it.

[divine1966]

I wouldn't ask anything yet. Wait few days and see how he acts. Give it a bit time. See how it goes tomorrow. If you notice him not initiating and not contacting you or not expressing genuine interest and then trust your guts. But do give it few days. When you feel urges to contact him distract yourself right away but doing something going somewhere or even browsing on dating sites of talk here. Do not initiate right now

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Originally Posted by divine1966

I wouldn't ask anything yet. Wait few days and see how he acts. Give it a bit time. See how it goes tomorrow. If you notice him not initiating and not contacting you or not expressing genuine interest and then trust your guts. But do give it few days. When you feel urges to contact him distract yourself right away but doing something going somewhere or even browsing on dating sites of talk here. Do not initiate right now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ugggghhh I already did. *hangs head* About an hour and fifteen minutes ago. It took him an hour to respond to my "Hey, what's up?" with, "Sleepy, playing Uno with friends. You?" I said, "Same, minus the Uno." I went on to say, "Was gonna call you for a sec, had a purpose. But it can wait. " There was no reply. If he's hanging out with friends, I doubt he would reply.

The thing is that I think he's setting boundaries by not being so responsive, by not chatting every day. But that's not how I need boundaries set; it's too ambiguous. I feel like I'm guessing, and it makes me too anxious because I am afraid to guess incorrectly. I don't need to talk to him everyday, don't need him to respond to me immediately. But I need to know that we are on the same page. That's all.

Yesterday, he was all about the Skype, flirty, sweet, all about it. Today though...

[healingme4me]

I hear what you are saying though. It's about building up that level of trust. Who doesn't want to be the first hello in the morning and the final goodnight of the evening? Which the pattern did set day 1 and 2?

It might be important here to play it "cool". That doesn't come easy as one of your posts mentions worry about being "enough".

He's been single since earlier this month. It's Thursday, what field of work is he in(vague being more than ok)? Payday? Does he exert self control if drinking, for instance? No drunken drama? :\
Basically logically think him over. Oh yeah...nba draft night...is he into sports?
Things like that...

I think you need to set your own boundaries for yourself, and not act a specific way because that's what HIS boundaries are...

This won't sound right, but it's the only thing I can think of: Lower your expectations. Better yet, don't have any for a while.
Maybe your boundaries could be that you won't text or call for..say..4 days? Then only reply one time?
I'm not saying that specifically, but perhaps write out some rules for yourself and stick to them...make it a challenge

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I hear what you are saying though. It's about building up that level of trust. Who doesn't want to be the first hello in the morning and the final goodnight of the evening? Which the pattern did set day 1 and 2?

It might be important here to play it "cool". That doesn't come easy as one of your posts mentions worry about being "enough".

He's been single since earlier this month. It's Thursday, what field of work is he in(vague being more than ok)? Payday? Does he exert self control if drinking, for instance? No drunken drama? :\
Basically logically think him over. Oh yeah...nba draft night...is he into sports?
Things like that...

Not at all into sports (that made me chuckle a little).

He's a reporter, he's a huge nerd, into SCA, teaches fencing (which stems from SCA...he's really good at it, though). He's a nerd, but he's a ruggedly attractive, sword-wielding one. He will have a few drinks here and there, but doesn't get crazy anymore. He's in his mid-forties; while he has what can be categorized as a serious MI (he's bipolar, he's been open about it since I've known him) he has lived past the instability. He's very stable and has been for years.

He was playing cards with friends tonight. I wrote out a whole message to send. Didn't send it. I had a message exchange where I was very honest about where my head was at, basically saying that I felt a bit shy about the fact that I was feeling like "classic Ruari" and had some things on my mind which may come off as needy or pushy, and wasn't sure how to voice them. He said, "Like what?" I talked briefly about the boundaries and, since he was at the store at the time said, "Hey, it's not an urgent matter. This isn't grocery-disrupting-worthy. " So he messaged when he got home and it was an okay exchange. He's pretty easygoing, and I think he sees a change in my behavior enough that he's willing to give me some leeway...I'm working on how I cope with stress and relationships, but I'm not a totally different person.

I'm trying to play it cool. I'm horrible at it. I so so so wish I were better at it. The less chill I have, the more ashamed I feel. OMG, I had no chill when we were on video chat last night. Thank goodness he found that ridiculously amusing and cute, and not annoying.

Oh, we talked about the level of communication. I said I didn't need to talk everyday, I just needed to know we were on the same page, basically. That, and a "good morning" is really nice. He said, "It sure is. I just got busy with things today." I told him this wasn't about that at all (I guess it is, but...) He said he didn't think it was. Really, I've had questions since we started talking.

Trying to play it cool. Trying to lower my expectations. I've just always been awful at this. Awful. That's what that other "I feel hopeless" thread is about. I'm being really hard on myself. I've never had any relationship last longer than a year. I don't really even know how to do this. I feel confident in myself in every other way except for how to interact with someone I think is awesome. And how to trust, work out conflict, and just freaking chill (yes, my T and I are actively working on this).

OH. I should also say that he was at a big SCA event this past weekend (before we were talking again), which he hasn't done in a while and he's back in the swing of his hobby with his crew. He's also started going to the gym. Before, he wasn't doing much but work and hanging out with his son on the weekends. He said that he's getting all kinds of new ideas on lots of different fronts: work, and etc. So I think his attention is more divided, yes. But it's not what that dark little part of my brain wants to tell me it is. And I'm okay, happy even, that his attention is divided in this way. This stuff is his thing.

Restraint is not easy for me, either...

I know that men perceive some behaviors as needy and a turnoff, even though (for me at least) it's just the need for some rules.

I haven't dated in ages though...so don't take my advice. I do know about needing definition and plain-speak...it's just part of my nature that I'm constantly working on.

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

Restraint is not easy for me, either...

I know that men perceive some behaviors as needy and a turnoff, even though (for me at least) it's just the need for some rules.

I haven't dated in ages though...so don't take my advice. I do know about needing definition and plain-speak...it's just part of my nature that I'm constantly working on.

I think he's willing to put up with it, to a point. If he were totally ignorant to the world of MI, self-doubt, and etc I think it would be different. But he's been there before as well. However, I can't rely on that and then just act any old way I choose.