Married before I could see myself as adequate

You wrote:
"I still don't know if average is good enough for the kind of love I desire" --

And "average" refers to your looks. Love isn't about looks. It really isn't. Lust is; infatuation is; but true love is internal, not external.

I hope that helps.

[QUOTE=Your friendships, growing up, were they strained and sparse? Your parents, is their dynamics different than what you have with your wife? Trapped in marriage, does she have a certain dependency on you? Not necessarily in a financial way, but more indescribably so? Not even paternally so, yet in fear of independence or aloof to the concept?

Aside from work and your homelife/family life, do you have any hobbies? Maybe expand more on those? Any ambitions for volunteer work or a separate path from your current field? That, also, could help? I reckon that it's difficult to have a social life with your wife? Do you have couples friends?

When I mention resentment, it can also mean towards the life you are living/leading, not entirely at your wife, but why not some resentment towards her, a little?

About passion, is there not a zest for life, in your home? One thing is the five love languages, it's a small insight in compatibility, yet, if not mirroring one another, left unaware, it can be a big deal. My cousin and his wife, gifted that for my wedding. Didn't read it, until after the divorce, but it's a good read, my ex didn't go for such things. Wasn't open to counseling, among numerous other aspects, that are neither here nor there, but for you, before a marriage counselor is found, it's a small step. Ever read harville and hendrix? There's some good stuff over there for relationship building.QUOTE]

My friendships were few but deep. I had a small group of three or four close friends with whom I remain close.

My parents divorced when I was ten. I don't remember them being close, or much about their relationship before they separated. I do know that I felt like their actions were immature and irresponsible. I didn't suffer from their divorce. In many ways it improved my life, but my mother in particular seems to remain irresponsible, and I think I've put great pressure on myself to stick things out and accept my dissatisfaction to prove I'm not like her.

The trap is my own making. My wife is a fully formed adult. She would have no problem living without me. I just worry for her happiness, and I don't want to hurt her or my daughter. My wife deserves to be loved and appreciated.

Oh I most definitely have hobbies. I've thrown my energy into art and music. I'm very active in those communities. I can't really expand those activities or I'd never be home, and it wouldn't help. Like I said, I have thrown my passion into other things hoping it would compensate and bring me more contentment.

Our social life as a couple isn't good. We don't have common interests. We do have a few couples friends, but I don't enjoy spending time with them and they aren't available often.

I do resent my domestic life. I never genuinely wanted to get married or have kids. I thought I could grow into it. I felt a lot of pressure from family and friends to acquiesce. When I told people I didn't want to get married, they were disapproving and sort of made me feel I was being unfair to my wife - who was my long time girlfriend at that point. I also thought I was being unfair, so I just did it with the determination to be an honorable and loyal partner.

I haven't read either book. A zest for life? No. But my idea of zest is probably more extreme that others'.

This is what terrifies me.

Have you considered that you might have narcissistic personality disorder? Perhaps your internal emptiness demands more and more outside stimulation --- more than any human being, activity, or situation could possibly provide?

Yes, I've considered that. It seems unlikely. I don't have many of the documented symptoms or feelings. My insecurities are well known and not a secret to my friends and family. Most people tell me I'm too hard on myself, but maybe that's just a variation of the condition. I've taken an online test that indicates I'm not even close to that diagnosis. But it's worth posing this question to my therapist. If I do have narcissistic personality disorder, then man, I don't know what to do. That seems hopeless.

I do think I'm special, but in the same sense that I think everyone is special and unique. I think my wife is special. It just doesn't make me love her in a romantic way.

I still think it's most likely that the basic problem is that I felt repressed as an adolescent and young adult. I felt unworthy of anything. When a young woman came along and wanted me, I gratefully accepted her affection and tried to reciprocate it. In my mind I was going to reward her with loyalty and affection, and make myself love her as fully as possible. I ignored my doubts because I wanted so badly to meet her love with my own. I think I unconsciously tried the "fake it until you make it" strategy, but it never materialized.

I still can't tell what romantic love should feel like. I'd love to know how a really satisfying long term romantic relationship should feel. Can anyone describe that to me?

Your story sounds so similar to mine with my ex-spouse I am going to have to stop responding to your posts as I might be triggered. Especially this last post. I think every single thing you said is exactly how my ex-spouse felt. I think the one thing that is different is that there was a lot of passion and romance present in our relationship. Although my ex is not a full blown narcissist, he does have some of these qualities, and I am sure you know that at the core of narcissism is insecurity. That is really narcissism it in a nutshell. It's a compensatory disorder.

My ex-spouse went on to remarry. He even called me before remarrying to excitedly tell me he had met his soul mate. I wasn't sure what that meant because I thought we were soul mates, having met and bonded at an early age.

One thing my ex told me at the time of the divorce always stayed with me. He said everyone creates a story that is their life. It isn't fact. It is just the story one creates. So if my ex created a story that he never really loved me, and that story enabled him to leave me and marry another...well, you can see how everyone's story benefits them.

My ex fell in love with his new soul-mate in mid-life, among other things such as getting tattoos, buying a sports car, setting up a man-cave apartment etc. etc. I felt his behavior was ridiculous.

Falling in love is for youth, in my opinion. I had a lovely passion for my ex, which was reciprocated, when we were quite young. We are selfishly absorbed in one another, we went out often and had an active social life, traveled, danced, partied, and enjoyed life. He was my everything and I was his everything. Being young and pretty and with little responsibilities outside of one's own life lends itself to passion and romance.

You are already past that and what you are longing for seems a bit ridiculous but go for it. What do you want from PC? Permission? Not to be judged? Support to leave your wife and child?

Just do whatever you are going to do, and be responsible for the consequences. Good Luck.

I'm sorry if I've reminded you of a painful part of your life. What I wanted from PC was simply to find someone who had been through this from my side and come out okay. You know, from my perspective there's no good outcome. I was hoping someone would have been through this and found some meaning or happiness from it, like perhaps finding a new love for his or her spouse, or even a story of two people separating, making peace with it and both being happier in the end.

I'm really very sorry. I didn't know where else to turn. When you feel like you have an unsolvable problem, sometimes you just look for help in crazy places.

If separating from my wife is going to cause her the pain it's caused you, then I won't do it - no matter what. (And for the sake of clarity, I would never leave my child. She is part of my soul and I couldn't live without her.)

I do think it's interesting that you see infatuation as something for young people and that you never wanted to experience that connection again after settling into a more companionate relationship. I wish I could be like that.

Good Luck

This is excellent advice.

To address the other point about staying together and my hand being forced by meeting someone else, that's already happened twice. I've been through two very bad infatuations which I never let become anything more than secret crushes. They eventually passed - more or less. They will never completely go away. (I still have a place in my heart for a high school crush for that matter.) But I don't think about these women night and day anymore. The worst crush I had lasted three and a half years, until life circumstances made it so I didn't see this woman anymore.

Anyway, I know I can conquer infatuation without being unfaithful. Nothing will force my hand. Things may suck for a while, but I know I can get over infatuation eventually.

It's certainly possible that the best thing to do might be to just raise my daughter and reassess things when she's independent. I'll be in my fifties. Maybe by then I won't care anymore.

Sorry, I meant to respond to this statement too. That does seem very ridiculous to me too. I've never wanted any of those specific things, but maybe that's just a superficial difference. I also don't believe in soul mates. I believe in understanding and bonding. I know people think I'm just looking for excitement, and I am looking for excitement, but in combination with some kind of real understanding and connection. When I dare to fantasize about what I want, I imagine myself with a creative, artistic woman who really understands how my mind and emotions work. I think about silly **** like reading poetry together, or talking about philosophy, or playing music together. I also imagine being with someone who approaches physical love the same way I do. That would be a nice little bonus. I never think about being young again. I'm not trying to relive a missed youth. I just want some understanding and passion. When I talk about stimulation, these are the things I mean; intellectual and emotional stimulation. I want to keep growing.

It's not that I've been through it, but was rather close to someone that had. They just hadn't any children. I asked some of those questions from the perspective of knowing what they went through. It was a no choice seemed the best scenario. Parents hadn't divorced, however, yet shaped the dynamics of the marriage. Manic depression was more like it well over narcissism.

My parents had divorced. It was messy in its own way. I was also 9/10. Through therapy for myself as an adult, narcissism was tossed out there about my dad. He doesn't think through things the way you do or aforementioned individual. Concern for causing emotional distress towards others is an important fact.

As far as healthy relationships, if passion is a need, that's an important piece of your marriage missing. Passionate discussions are helpful and beneficial to those in long term relationships, it creates a sense of connection. Devoting time and effort fuels the flames. Being somewhat on the same page does matter.

Oh, okay.

It is hard to read you. You seem to want it all. That's a lot!

I think soulmates means understanding and bonding plus passion and kismet.

Yes... Perhaps I do want too much. Like I said, I'm an intense and passionate person. Maybe my desires are completely unrealistic. I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm like your ex. I'm sorry you were left high and dry. Maybe some of us are just psychologically unable to maintain a bond with a single person for life. Culture pushes us to conform to the standard progression of a relationship with the perceived goal as marriage and family. It's hard to resist this, especially when you care about someone who desires it wholeheartedly. I never meant to let anyone down, and admitting I'm struggling makes me feel so very ashamed.

I'm scared that there will be no more surprises in my life and that things will be completely static from here on out. 35 seems too young to have nothing to look forward to. I wish I were like you in the sense that you were able to fully appreciate the certainty and comfort of companionship with your partner - until he ruined it. I don't want to be that guy. There are enough of those guys.

If you were really compassionate you would divorce now so that your wife would have a chance, at a young age, to build a new life. It is horrible you are staying married to her while having all these kinds of thoughts in your head.

Maybe you don't want to feel guilty for pursuing your own happiness. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know you. Good luck. I can't continue to comment on this thread.

The heart wants what the heart wants.

Peace to you.

I disagree. While yes, if he continues to desire to be "elsewhere" and searching for this passionate love in other places or even wondering it would be a sign to get out, I think it's rather simplistic to say that it's horrible to stay if you have these thoughts. Thoughts, doubts, concerns and such are entirely natural in life and every relationship will run warmer at some times and cooler at others. Many many people do go through this and get past it, rekindling their love for the one they are with. So my point only being is that having the thoughts is one thing and is a sign that SOMETHING must be done but leaving out the ability to reconcile this doubt in his mind just leaves out something that should be considered.

That being said, again something must be done and that is making a choice to either resolve this and get past it with thoughts of staying with her but only if he can reconcile his doubts first, or... the other option of yes, leaving her because continuing in a relationship where you're still looking is unfair to the spouse.

Depends on intensity of thoughts. This OP said things like he hated to be around his wife, found her boring, was not interested in anything she was interested in, was not attracted to her as a person. He also said he felt his marriage was like a business partnership. Would you want to be with someone looking across the dinner table at you with these kinds of thoughts running through their head? I know people who put up with not just thoughts but a stream of daily verbal abuse from their partner. Yet they stay. To each his own. I just gave my opinion...

And I don't necessarily disagree in some instances that that suggestion is an appropriate one but just when it comes to marriage, especially ones that have lasted a long time, I'd just rather the person exhaust the other options first.

agreed that it depends on the intensity (and frequency) of the thoughts and those other things you mentioned are a serious consideration too.