Feeling like garbage... can't find any dating mojo...

That would be a first. If anything, I've gotten suggestions to turn down on the manly-man stuff that I'm into so it wasn't all heavy metal!, fast cars!, guns!, action movies!, cooking meat with fire!, and whatnot.

Well, like I said earlier on in the thread: I had to dig up the profile pieces from drafts and whatnot, so there might be spelling/grammatical errors that got fixed upon reviewing... Also, spelling errors = gay? I'm not sure I follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prefabsprout I read 'garbage face' and 'dumpster truck' as being down on your appearance, I apologise for my part in any misunderstanding, but the use of those words sounded emotive and negative to me.

That's 'dumpster fire'... a dumpster truck would be kinda useful and cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prefabsprout I'm glad you're happy with yourself, that is a great place to be.

Happy with oneself, yes, is a good place to be. Depressed to the point of being on the suicide hotline about what the world thinks of you... yeah, not so much.

This is hard for me to get my head around, for me the idea of worrying about what others think of me is bound up in how I feel about myself, thank you for explaining that it is quite independent with you. I'm trying to understand this, and I'm very sad to read it drove you to feel SUI.

Is it really the world though? You say you have great friendships, that would tend to suggest people do like you.

Okay I read your situation and I feel like I have some kind of answer for you I know what it is like feeling like nobody wants you and feeling inadequate but you have to realize this is not your problem these girls you speak of could just be girls who are struggling with mental illness, no job etc and therefore are in no state to even think of dating anyone. Please don't take this personal because we don't reply some of us are in our own **** and think that a guy hitting on us is the last problem we need in the sea of the problems we have (or at least that's how I see it because I am depressed and men seem to trigger deeper feelings of depression and helplessness) but honestly it sometimes is the two right people but the situation is just ****ed because they both have different problems that they each can't balance out... I hope this helps good luck to you

Hi Burnt Out.

I'm afraid I'm late to the party here, or rather, your thread. I am in the same pickle as you. I tend to be positive and happy when out and about, shoving my insecurities deep down inside, but no matter what I seem to do, I can't for the life of me give off that "I'm single and looking for something more than casual sex" vibe to the single men out there. It seems the men in my area just don't want a curvy, redheaded artsy/geek chic all that much.

Now, I wouldn't try to tone down your manliness. We ladies like a man who knows his way around a garage, etc. At least I do. While I know a few names to car parts, I am clueless as to how they go together to make the car work. I'm more the gets her fingers dirty with painting a picture, rather than engine grease. So, a car savvy boyfriend is very useful in that way. Besides, nothing is hotter to me than a shirtless young man sweating over his car engine on a warm summer day.

Okay, I'm digressing, I know it's beyond frustrating and it seems that all the good single women are taken, or are just too picky to even consider looking your way, but I think it helps to picture what exactly you want from your ideal woman, or whomever you desire, and start looking from there.

I'm still looking, hoping, and praying to anything and everything Divine that will listen to me to bring me my ideal life partner. Maybe I feel absolutely crushed, and like the search will never be fruitful, but that's just when another lead pops up and I get that tiny bit of optimism I need to keep going on.

Maybe you don't believe in anything divine or godly, nor that things work in mysterious ways in our Universe, but I was once told that for every pot, there is a lid. So there is someone out there looking for you, just as there is someone out there looking for me.

Maybe I should follow my own advice.

Straight up question: Do you know that people here are complimenting you?

Interesting that you would put it that way: "straight up question". I also felt that the OP tried to obfuscate. Imo this is a trait that might turn people off, not his physical features.

Just wanted to agree with Unaluna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prefabsprout This is hard for me to get my head around, for me the idea of worrying about what others think of me is bound up in how I feel about myself, thank you for explaining that it is quite independent with you. I'm trying to understand this, and I'm very sad to read it drove you to feel SUI.

Well, you are correct, it does lead to that... I just don't see what specifically is so bad about me that no one is interested.

Basically it boils down to focusing on oneself and one's life the best you can, getting up in the morning, putting oneself together, looking in the mirror and being happy and proud of that... then that feeling deteriorating over time as no one shows interest, your messages are ignored, your swipes unrequited, and finding oneself three drinks deep at the end of another day/week/month/year of being unappreciated by the world, utterly exhausted by the energy put in... and yeah... some days it gets darker than others. It's an endless cycle of that same course of events. Staying strong and positive only to be chiseled down to self-loathing by one's actual experiences.

Quote:

Is it really the world though? You say you have great friendships, that would tend to suggest people do like you.

They do. Though, I can't say I have a lot of friends to substantiate a sample selection. Some of that comes from bouncing around during my early thirties, so they're scattered about a bit.

I'm going to go back to the concept of people liking you as a friend doesn't mean they want to be with you romantically. There are other prerequisites to romance where I obviously fail. That's why I tend to default to simply being ugly. Friends don't generally care (or even think) about how attractive their friends are. It's just not a prerequisite like it is in dating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by black-roses Okay I read your situation and I feel like I have some kind of answer for you I know what it is like feeling like nobody wants you and feeling inadequate but you have to realize this is not your problem these girls you speak of could just be girls who are struggling with mental illness, no job etc and therefore are in no state to even think of dating anyone. Please don't take this personal because we don't reply some of us are in our own **** and think that a guy hitting on us is the last problem we need in the sea of the problems we have (or at least that's how I see it because I am depressed and men seem to trigger deeper feelings of depression and helplessness) but honestly it sometimes is the two right people but the situation is just ****ed because they both have different problems that they each can't balance out... I hope this helps good luck to you

It's an interesting theory... but I somehow doubt that even 50% of women on Ok Cupid, Plenty of Fish, Tinder, etc. are struggling with mental illness, unemployment, etc. I'd think I'd hit at least a few fairly even keeled after six years and thousands of contacts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artchic528 ...but I think it helps to picture what exactly you want from your ideal woman, or whomever you desire, and start looking from there.

^
I think this is brilliant advice... and it's not the first time I've had it thrown my way. The crux of it is: How does one apply in in practice? As much as it's my bane in the quest for love, online dating has got to be one of the best places to apply that mantra. You've got all sorts of people corralled in one spot, in (at least, semi-) perpetuity, and you know a good bit about them. A lot more than strangers, for sure... unless they come vetted. Believe me, I've come across that profile of what (on paper, at least) appears to be something in the vein of an "ideal" woman. Sometimes it's hard not to get so utterly excited when a number of things line up... and then you send them a kind and smart message... and then: Nothing. If anything, in the online world, the few that do reply aren't exactly "shoe-ins" in terms of the sordid details. I've oft been bewildered by who chooses to respond and who doesn't.

Outside online dating, all I can do is go about doing things I enjoy to hopefully be in the context of similarly minded women, like going to shows, hipster bars, car shows, and whathaveyou, in the hope I meet someone that makes half-way decent sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artchic528 Maybe you don't believe in anything divine or godly, nor that things work in mysterious ways in our Universe, but I was once told that for every pot, there is a lid. So there is someone out there looking for you, just as there is someone out there looking for me.

I'm an atheist and science-y kinda person so I don't put any stake in the destiny front. Sorry. I figure I either figure it out, or rely on luck/chaos work for me (or not), and the second is out of my control, so might as well focus the first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artchic528 Maybe I should follow my own advice

Yup, at least until it's not working... then try some other suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiesmom Straight up question: Do you know that people here are complimenting you?

I do... and I sincerely appreciate and have tried to acknowledge the praise, as I've given many thanks and hugs. That said, I don't want it to look like I'm fishing for compliments... as that's definitely not what I'm doing here. I don't think it's healthy (both from the standpoint of self-esteem, and interacting with others) to think good of yourself based solely on the externa to prop yourself up. That ultimately has to come from within.

I'm not here to feel good about myself. I'm here to find the means to posses/convey enough worth to qualify for love (or at least pre-qualify to at least date and fail at trying to find it)... and in Maslowian fashion, find actualization that way. I want to fix my relationship with the world... not pad my feelings against it so I can feel "okay" about being isolated and alone. It's not okay. Humans are not meant to live that way. We're social creatures.




I don't quite understand what it is I'm trying to obfuscate on my prof, and how or where I'm going about it? My apologies if I'm confused. Clarify, please.

Burnt_Out, you've been given lots of helpful suggestions here from some very good and experienced members. I would like to suggest that you do not try so hard in your profile, be the real you rather than making yourself look like a superman type. I hope you will take my suggestion at face value rather than (more-or-less) saying, 'Yeah but...'

You've also said that you have had several girlfriends in the past, I would suggest you look at where these went wrong rather than writing 'thousands' of messages to women on these dating sites. Maybe you should try another technique and learn from previous experiences.

Look outside of yourself and learn from others.

I'm not saying this to compliment you--

You are intelligent and witty. You are handsome. I just don't get why no women are responding to you.

Some people made metrosexual/homosexual innuendos, but I don't see that at all.

Could it be you are saying or doing something else that's really off-putting? I'm baffled, if they don't even swipe ...

Maybe it's the women?

I looked at your About Me. You have the interests of a Renaissance man, very sexy stuff. Then you call yourself trash and say you have self-esteem issues. Does this carry over to RL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegasus Burnt_Out, you've been given lots of helpful suggestions here from some very good and experienced members.

Who said I wasn't applying any of them? I'm not doing online dating right now as I'm at a transition point with relocating and all, but I'll surely put them to good use in the future. I said Artchic's suggestion was brilliant... I also said I'd take Divine's advice of eHarmony once I'm settled in some new environs. No point in delving into that here when I'm going to move anyway. And don't be so bent because I'm a tough nut to crack. I went through three therapists that didn't get the situation either... and they're supposedly paid professionals on the human mind. I think things might have been clearer if they ghosted my actual day-to-day life, but that's not how it works. Thirty minutes is all you get. Well, it doesn't play out like people think it does. Life isn't a TV sitcom.

I feel like this getting to be more about people feeling good about feeling like they can offer up help, more than me actually receiving any help that fits into my (somehow) complex situation. I'm sorry I'm not at textbook fix. Honestly, if that's kills you, feel free to abandon ship and let the thread die. No one is being guilted into having the answers here. If I'm on the Ultimate Metal forums and someone asks me who produced the first Parkway Drive record and I don't know... I just don't hit the reply button. Simple as that. I'm not gonna be mad. I've got a post over there inquiring about what cities have a good music scene with ZERO replies. None. It happens. I'm not mad about it. I'll find the answers elsewhere (Vice posted an article on it a few weeks later, actually).

Quote:

I would like to suggest that you do not try so hard in your profile, be the real you rather than making yourself look like a superman type. I hope you will take my suggestion at face value rather than (more-or-less) saying, 'Yeah but...'

I'm 100% open to profile-by-committee if you've got a clearer perspective here. You all know enough about me at this point: Sweet cosmos, if you're really experts, then script away. If it works, I'll send $1000 to each of you. I am not joking. Not in the least. The money is in the bank. I'm a scientific sort and more than willing to test any hypothesis.

I've tried a number of things (including a non-"Superman" profile... which I don't think what I posted here really is all that superlative) and nothing works. I know I'm "yeah, butting" but after six+ years, I've got a lot of yeah butting built up. Sorry if that's the situation. Sorry for trying different things. It comes with being a trial-and-error sort of person. Like I said: You got the skills? Write it for me. I'll put the check in the mail.

Quote:

You've also said that you have had several girlfriends in the past, I would suggest you look at where these went wrong rather than writing 'thousands' of messages to women on these dating sites. Maybe you should try another technique and learn from previous experiences.

Who says I haven't learned from those experiences? My last girlfriend was too young for where I was in life. I was trying to keep an open mind when she contacted me, but being too far off in our respective careers it made it impossible to spend time together outside of work. Long ago, I dated a girl who wanted kids younger than most, and my uncertainty about it at the time drove her away. I've got a better perspective on all that now... and am flexible on at that. I HAVE learned a lot. Give me credit where credit is due... or at least ask before trashing on me with a drive-by post just because you're sick of my depression trigger getting bumped to the top of the stack or if you don't really want to get to know/engage me at length.

Like I said, if you hate my qualms and frustrations in life, just don't post. It's just text... just bits, and not clamoring up any servers airing my woes. One pic upload and I've done 100x the damage.

Thank you so much for the positive input, Tisha! I think the homosexual stuff on here might be someone on here projecting their own issues, but I dunno. I'm very far from homophobic, but I'm a fairly straightforward person not ashamed of who I am & who I'm not... so if I was gay (or even bi)... the reader would know it... trust me! LOL! Actually, thinking about it, as a member of the metal/hardcore music community, it's been a bit of a fight over the years to get rid of the homophobic stigma more than anything. It's different with this generation, but it's taken a lot of work for the scene to get here.



I dunno. I'm starting to suspect that my cultural alignments are out of phase with my own age group, and that (combined with looking somewhat young) isn't winning me any favors with mid-to-late thirties women. I mostly lack a sense of nostalgia overall, and as an artist, I tend to follow what resonates with me, which continues to be what newer forms of culture have had to offer up over the years... so I've evolved into that as a persona (albeit along with the underpinnings I've had in the past). It's hard sometimes when I see people even a bit younger than me crapping on things I might appreciate as "hipster/Millennial trash", whilst I personally struggle to identify with a good part of the aging Gen X'ers issues. I feel like my style and interests might irritate many of them more than entice. Everyone seems so angry at everyone else right now over such shallow s___. It's all worn me down to be sure.



Despite what I just wrote above, pigeonholing people by age, culture, gender, etc. is a slippery-slope that I refuse to engage in because that's not how I want to be evaluated myself. Women are a diverse set of human beings, each with their own perspectives. I'm sure/I hope there's a good chunk of them out there that aren't that superficial and/or part of a hivemind perspective on what us as individuals are. And I hope I fall in love with one of them...



I try not to let it. For the most part it doesn't. I say that because the rare times I've reveled my inner struggles to my friends, they've been pretty much aghast with the idea of me feeling that way. I'm one of those people with depression, low self esteem, and alcoholism that hides it like a boss. I'm actually not proud of that... it's just a survival mechanism, and a mechanism of hope in a way.

Even through your music, you aren't attracting women? I'm curious about your heavy metal music. Do you write lyrics, music, play an instrument? Just bang your head?

I have to say I too am surprised you don't get more response post gigs. My husband has been a lifelong musician and he and his fellow bandmates were never short of women - that said he wasn't shy and quite open to opportunities. Mind you his genre was never heavy metal and we live in UK so there are those differences.

I'd think there would be ladies in hardcore/metal community. Or at least ladies that like musicians, which are plenty. Or men who know single women?

But it's if one actually play music? Do you actually perform? In a band or solo?

Do you just play for yourself or belong to a band? Know other musicians? Belong to some type of organization? Participate in concerts/gigs/events? I'd assume you know a lot of people, men and women, if you are actually in music community. So when you refer to music community what exactly do you mean?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have a certain strength that's very appealing.

However, you also have self-esteem problems that take away from that strength. You perceive an awful lot to be criticism and get defensive about it. That looks like weakness to some women, I think.

If you don't think that the second paragraph applies, then that would be a step in the right direction imho

I honestly don't think self-esteem problems or any possible metro look/vibe (not getting this from you, but) will keep people back if they really like you. Anyone expecting people to be perfect or perfectly unaffected by the sickness in this world isn't someone you'd want to be with anyway! As tough as it is to be yourself when it feels sometimes that others dislike it, it's the only way.

I play guitar, bass, do vocals (I won't say "sing" as that's not necessarily the vibe), program drums/beats, arrangements, synths, and engineer/do music production. I've written lyrics in the past, but in my last band that was the domain of our singer. In that particular context, I was the lead guitarist, had my hand in some songwriting, shared production duties with the drummer, and helped generate concepts as well as art and all online media.

I'm not in a band at the moment. The last one I was in was back in Portland, Oregon... well... going on four years now. On top of almost meeting no women since moving back here to Phoenix, Arizona, I've not run into any prospective band mates either.

When I was active, I only got one number from a girl after a gig (who I texted her a few times, and she never replied). That said, we didn't play out much at all. We were a five-piece with a lot of expensive gear, so it was a hassle (and a risk) playing out at venues, so we did it sparingly.

In this day-and-age, playing out is generally a waste of time. It's a DIY and Internet driven world, so your time is better spent crafting your songs, getting them recorded and produced in the studio & writing spaces, and feeding them through your crafted social media presence online. That's generally the best way to get your art to the ears that will appreciate it. Grinding local gigs just isn't the way to do it... and it's not like labels scout clubs anymore. You play out because you like to perform. We were artists, not performers I guess you could say.



Not really. It's VERY heavily male biased, particularly in the States. The media on this side of the pond hasn't been very kind to what, statistically speaking, is a rather popular genre. I won't pretend to understand the social science of it, but scenes which aren't given much credence in the mainstream are very unappealing to women en masse over here. Places like Scandinavia, Northern Europe, heck... even Mexico, have better M:F ratios at metal and hardcore gigs. The U.S. cranks out a lot of heavy music acts, most of which sell all over the world, but in general we are treated like garbage and looked down upon for our craft in our own boarders.

As for women simply interested in musicians for the sake of being musicians (or creative, et. al.), I don't get any of that... ever. Outside of what I play, I'm interested in a lots of different forms of music from blues to alt hip hop to ambient electronica, but I've never had a girl inquire about my being a musician on my profile. I don't beat anyone over the head with it, but I'm not coy about it either, and have had a picture of me playing live on there a good part of the time:



I get the general impression women don't care much about music and musicians anymore.

You're part of the heavy metal community by participating in it on any level. At the most basic level, it involves buying albums, going to shows, buying shirts, representing the artists, being part of discussions. As much as it's a collection of artists, commerce drives everything in our world, and the heavy music community is no different. A lot of it is online these days: Forums, blogs, purchases. Metal doesn't work well as a local phenomenon. It's not like the local jazz society. Metal is constantly evolving and refreshing it's ranks, so it's actually driven by the young (and followed by all ages), and is fueled like anything new these days: Kickstarters, Patreon, social media promotions, YouTube vids, e-commerce, and so on.

Yeah, if people don't like you, they don't like you. If they don't like long hair, tattoos, piercings, the music you listen to, the car you drive, the shoes you wear, etc., what are you going to do about it? I'll admit it wears you down over the years, but you develop a huge amount of ambivalence to it all. Just relentless nitpicking, oft uninitiated. I think people a just willfully ignorant and close-minded more than anything. They want someone to hate more than someone to love. I guess I should feel good that they feel good when they swipe me left. It's fun to reject people, I guess.

I'll just be over here being lonely I guess until someone's willing to give me a chance. Until then, I'm busy with freelance work, looking for a new job somewhere outside Arizona, tinkering with music, or whatever.

It's not fun to reject people at all. But at the same time no one is obligated to date anyone they are not interested in.

There is no such things as collective "people" like you or don't like you. Everyone is unique. I don't know why you are saying people are ignorant and close minded. People date and marry all kind of people.

We went on vacation recently and there was this married couple on a train with us , they were young maybe like early 30s, she was very cute and he had a disability that made walking hard, he had to walk with two canes, perhaps was born with palsy. He seems such a fun guy, they were clearly enjoying themselves laughing and having good time. My husband has Tourette's syndrome, is a total dork with weird lol hobbies and is on a heavy side. I can give you tons of examples of people of any ages living in different places and not being close minded about who they like and love at all.

I understand it's frustrating but blaming people for being close minded is just going to make you bitter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm married (albeit unhappily) and 50 (too old for you) so I'm not coming on to you, but I gotta say I think you are super attractive and here's why:
1. I am a sucker for musicians, all genres. I might hate the head-banging metal and screaming, hateful lyrics, though. But I used to have a thing with a guy in a punk band in the 80's.
2. You are very intelligent and also have a real job.
3. You are handsome. Is that you with the long hair?
4. That photo of you sensually wrapped around the guitar while wearing a button down shirt and tie is tooooo sexy.

Am I the last of the red hot groupies? Lol

BTW- I have a niece in Seattle who just turned 32 and you two would probably love each other!

Well, people don't date and marry me.





Pretty much. The rock star fantasy isn't really a thing anymore with women my age and younger. There are more girls into gaming, Comic Cons, and other esoteric stuff (not that I got anything against that... just not my bag). If there are any "rocker" appreciator stragglers, there are not anywhere near enough to go around, especially in heavy music circles.

Also, not all metal lyrics are hateful...or not even most. It's a hugely diverse genre with subject matter spanning the whole spectrum of topics, emotions, and viewpoints. Even the (sometimes) Satanic black metal movement spawned a Christian black metal counter-movement. You've got environmentally conscious bands to bands writing about alien invaders to high concept storytelling.

Finally, yes that's me with long hair. It got cut off to where it is now a bit over a year ago. For years, Internet "experts" insisted I would get dates from online dating if I cut simply my off my lame hair. Turns out no. I've had zero dates with short hair. You can see why I'm weary of peoples' collective advice.