Feeling like garbage... can't find any dating mojo...

I understand your frustration, my suggestion of taking a break wasn't a solution for your dating woes, it was rather more it appears to me (and I may have this wrong, just going by what you've written) that your self belief is taking a battering from the dating or lack of. Only you will know whether you feel able to continue putting yourself out there without your self belief suffering further.

Yes, it is a challenge when we find our lives moving in different directions to our friends, it can be quite isolating. I think this is something that happens to many of us as we move into 30s/40s. In my experience I realised I was staying in touch with people I no longer had anything in common with for no good reason, my challenge was to make new friendships. Much in the way you've hit a brick wall in your dating I hit a wall trying to expand friendships, like you I started to believe there was something wrong with me* - looking back there wasn't, it was just a case of not meeting people who were a good fit for me. It took a whole lot of time and some let downs along the way but eventually, expanding my hobbies and volunteering I did get to make some new solid friendships who were a great fit for me. It did not come easily but I can personally recommend branching out to meet a variety of new people - ones whose company enriches you and does not make you feel like a loser.

My impression is that it is portrayed by online dating sites as almost a simple procedure to meet someone special, of course they would say that, it's their business and they want customers. However the overall situation does not appear so simple for many people, you just need to read this forum regularly to see the disappointed posts from people such as yourself. I'm sure there are lots of satisfied customers but I suspect they are not the majority.

It appears to me that for people who do not find success with these agencies the impression that they 'should' be able to find someone (which these agencies are asserting in advertisements) is like rubbing salt in the wounds.

In other words, it's not that there is anything wrong with you personally just because this method is not working for you, and I do believe there is a good chance things will fall into place for you eventually. Whether online or not is another matter.

*= I think some of us are more inclined than others to self blame when things do not go right for us, it often underlines a core lack of self belief which can have it's roots way back in our childhood experiences.

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I have met my fiancée on eharmony ( wedding in less than two weeks). There was no questions that pertain to views on sexuality whatsoever. I am a very liberal and progressive person and would not be on something conservative. My fiancée is a big time nerd. I am a liberal Jew and he isn't religious whatsoever. There was nothing that would even remotely indicate that it's pro Christian or conservative or have any views on homosexuality at all. Nothing. Questions pertained to personality types and traits. There was nothing even remotely on a subject you describe, I have bisexual daughter and plenty gay friends and students of every variety, id never look for a date on a site that would even ask me about it or let alone condemn anything or deny admission. . I really don't understand what you are referring to? I am straight though and was looking for a straight man, maybe they don't match homosexual pairs, thats I don't know but it didn't pertain to me. I really don't get it. Perhaps you are talking about years ago. Not how it's currently is. Strange

Like I said, I looked at it quite a while ago right after my last long-term girlfriend and myself broke up. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut down on right wing stuff after they caught heat in the media for it. I haven't really revisited the idea of eHarmony since, TBH. The way it delivers matches (as opposed to letting you browse) is rather unappealing. You can't really see what's there in terms of of a user base. It's what I disliked about Coffee Meets Bagel as well. It's just too nebulous. I might give it a try on a free trial. That's about it.

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Sometimes it's ok for the person not to be 100% a match in terms of interests and likes/dislikes. What if you challenge yourself and go for women who don't have the same tastes? Come from a different background? What if you go for complementary personal qualities? What if they are just good people but don't like the same things as you? Or aren't nerdy etc or are older or maybe are clean cut etc? Expand your horizons? What if you describe personal character qualities rather than your interests? I am just trying to come up with something, there got to be something

I never said it wasn't. Again, if we're picking apart my profile here, which is something I was very hesitant about doing for a reason: A good part of the time that I've spent on dating sites, I've had little-to-no outline of what I was specifically "looking for"... figuring that people would take it wrong (like they often do... like has happened on here already). I'll say it again: I've tried a lot of things.

My modus operandi has been to peruse profiles myself, and contact those that read like they might be a fit... and frankly I've been quite open minded about it, I'd say. I have never avoided say, non-nerdy or non-clean cut women or women from different backgrounds or with different tastes in my searches... at all... I've messaged thousands of women since ~2010. The vast of them were hardly a mirror image of myself (that would be a tall order). Heck, I've taken a lot of chances on profiles with not a whole lot info in them to begin with. I feel like if anything, women are being way less open-minded about me, than I am about them.

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I feel as if you want someone specific (not that you do, that's just the way I read your profile). I would tell myself that I couldn't measure up to you. I have been married forever, but I do have daughters who are dating so I know what they think. Please don't take my words as criticism. It is just an honest reaction to your profile. (I do get it, it's lovely, but a lot of women think they have some kind of checklist.... but, really, they want to be swept up in a grand romantic gesture....then get to know who you are)

Like I said above, I haven't always had an outline for what I was specifically looking for. I've tried it both ways. A lot, I mean A LOT, of people who've reviewed my profile insist that you won't get anywhere if you don't put in what you're looking for. I've been back-and-forth on so much of this for so long now. Seems like no matter what I write, it's wrong.

Well you are on dating sites to meet women, right, not just do things that make you comfortable. It's safer for a woman when matches are delivered. If I don't want to speak to that person they will never see my profile. On other sites men sometimes wouldn't leave me alone ever after a rejection. Also I was getting a lot of messages on other sites and there is no way I would even have time to reply. Eharmony felt safer to me. That's why I initially decided to try it. Some other women might think the same. But that's just a suggestion.

Thousands of women and none respond? Thousands?

You keep saying whatever you are doing is wrong yet when people suggest something you always decline ( looks, sites, profiles etc )and kind of make it sound that you do things right and have a reason not to make any chances. Could it be you subconsciously sabotage yourself. You describe your modus operandi yet it's not working. You are saying you are open minded but your profile strikes me as very specific.

What if you just say you are a good person and looking for the same? All we really need is kindness, everything else could be worked out, it doesn't matter what music they like or what restaurant they eat.
When you finally get a date you can figure out details.
Again a suggestion that you will probably decline

Sorry I don't seem to be able to help you. Good luck with everything. Maybe when you move and get a job things would change for you. Sometimes location makes a difference. I won't be posting on your thread.

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Originally Posted by divine1966 Well you are on dating sites to meet women, right, not just do things that make you comfortable. It's safer for a woman when matches are delivered. If I don't want to speak to that person they will never see my profile. On other sites men sometimes wouldn't leave me alone ever after a rejection. Also I was getting a lot of messages on other sites and there is no way I would even have time to reply. Eharmony felt safer to me. That's why I initially decided to try it. Some other women might think the same. But that's just a suggestion.

That makes complete sense. I do understand some of the struggles women have with dating (safety, angry replies, etc.), but keep in mind I'm not that guy: I've never said anything cruel or suggestive in a message; I'm reasonably well written, keep things personalized and topical; I don't follow up with anything angry if I get a rejection (which by the way, can be very cruel coming from the female side of the equation as well ), I just suck it up as I'm used to relentless rejection & move on; and when I've asked women out after a number of exchanges, it's always somewhere public & safe during normal hours, and give them the option of choosing what they're comfortable with. That said, I'll give eHarmony a chance next time they run a free trial. I'm sorry I haven't tried it. Their monetary commitments are a bit lofty.

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Thousands of women and none respond? Thousands?

Well, I haven't kept an exact tally (I never thought I would need to keep track of such a depressing record of failure)... but over the years, the numbers have got to be in the vicinity of that. Say 40 a month (sometimes it's been more, sometimes less I'm sure) x 12 months year x 6 years. That's 2,880 right there. It might not be that many, but I wouldn't say it's a crazy estimate.

And I'm not counting apps like Tinder or Bumble here where you can wrack off 100 - 200 matches a session (and yes I'm reading profiles before this goes there). My swipe-right percentage on those apps were probably in the 60% - 70% region.

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You keep saying whatever you are doing is wrong yet when people suggest something you always decline ( looks, sites, profiles etc )and kind of make it sound that you do things right and have a reason not to make any chances. Could it be you subconsciously sabotage yourself. You describe your modus operandi yet it's not working. You are saying you are open minded but your profile strikes me as very specific.

I don't see what's so specific about my profile. Like I said, disregard the outline at the bottom as I've not generally used it. It says what I do for a living, a few of my hobbies, a dynamic list of things I would enjoy with a partner which aren't super weird. Is saying I like comedy or art walks or cooking super alienating or something? What should I say I like to do?

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What if you just say you are a good person and looking for the same? All we really need is kindness, everything else could be worked out, it doesn't matter what music they like or what restaurant they eat.

I don't care at all what anyone's favorite food or music is. When did I say that? I mean, I'd like a significant other that could appreciate music in general (some people just don't think it has any value whatsoever and is a waste of time) as I'm a musician, but nowhere do I say that they need to like specifically like what I like. I've messaged (and dated) plenty of women who like alt rock, sushi, football, courtroom dramas, and other stuff that aren't necessarily not my go-to preferences, but I still can appreciate. IME, that stuff is often filler that doesn't define a good relationship. Actually, I've left those things off a lot of the time for that exact reasoning.

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When you finally get a date you can figure out details. Again a suggestion that you will probably decline

I've had a few dates. Not many... four in six years. One told me I was too short (at my stated 5'-10") when I tried to get a follow up date, one was verbally aggressive and downright mean to my friend who owned the bar we met at, one turned into 6-month relationship that didn't work out, and the last was just an awkward date as she was not very talkative and it seemed like every topic that came up, she didn't know anything about (just general culture stuff). None of that really clarifies why no one will reply to me. Three out of the four of the dates, they contacted me first. Not very useful data other than maybe I'm too short to be loved... but like beards, I see plenty 5'-10"-ish guys with girlfriends. It can't be that.

Also, I've had girlfriends before. I think there might be this idea that I'm on the way to being a 40-year old virgin perhaps. I probably dated ten or so different women in my twenties and into my thirties. A few were short-term relationships, a couple were long term (over five and six years). Why one woman likes me over the next, I couldn't tell you other than "they were attracted to me / I was their type".

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Sorry I don't seem to be able to help you. Good luck with everything. Maybe when you move and get a job things would change for you. Sometimes location makes a difference. I won't be posting on your thread.

That's okay. I don't expect you to have the answers. Maybe that's someone else. You should never feel pressured to have the answers. I'm just trying to make people here who are tying to help me understand that I have tried a lot of things, so I'm not trying to be a ___ about it. It's unfortunate that I've failed this long. It doesn't seem right to me.

I really don't mind that I don't have much success. Not everyone is going to like me, and that's okay . It only bothers me that I have no success whatsoever. That no one will give a chance to prove that I might be a worthwhile partner. That's what makes me feel ugly and worthless. It would be nice to catch a break every once in a while.

I was just stating what it looked like to me. I thought it might help you if you understood how you are coming across.

Never mind, though.

Good luck to you.

Which part though? The parts I said wasn't using a most of the time? Or something in the main body of the profile? What should I write? Help me out here as I'm obviously very bad at this.

Well, it seems like a charming and well-written profile. I found after reading it, I was thinking, "He seems interesting! But I want to know more about him personally." You write about what you do and what you like, which is good - the only thing I'd personally ask for is to know more about *who* you are. Personal traits/qualities. That is what I tend to look for. I hope that was at least a little helpful, or at least not offensive.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a HELL of a time finding quality people to talk to. That's with having a good brain and being reasonably attractive.

I do agree that location can really limit your dating pool (sometimes unexpectedly). Sometimes there's just no one around for a bit.

You're not garbage.
(I know saying this probably didn't help a single thing but I wanted to point it out anyway)

I don't think you're garbage. I read a lot of this thread and even though you're good looking and the profile was good its just "the luck of the cards" I have to say I have tried online dating in the past and sometimes I still browse my old OKCupid profile. I even got excited about a message I got even though it was just a "hi" because his profile was awesome. This is how our exchange went:

Him: hi
Me: Hi, how are you doing? I had a fabulous weekend going to the mall and the beach with my sister. How has your weekend been?
Him: it was ok urs?

Crickets......

I mean come on not only did he not give a crap what I said but totally ignored it. There are just people LIKE this out there. It really probably even isn't your fault.

Try not to be down on yourself. I know you feel alone and you really want to connect but this is consuming ALL of you. I guess I came to the realization that I didn't NEED anyone to be happy that's why these days I am content. I let go of all the desperation and expectation and now I am just living my life.

Sometimes you just need to do just that.

Life for you.

I do wish you the best though and I hope your search does end with you finding the women of your dreams. Best of luck to you!

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Well, it seems like a charming and well-written profile. I found after reading it, I was thinking, "He seems interesting! But I want to know more about him personally." You write about what you do and what you like, which is good - the only thing I'd personally ask for is to know more about *who* you are. Personal traits/qualities. That is what I tend to look for. I hope that was at least a little helpful, or at least not offensive.

Not at all offensive. I've tried to drop in traits like honesty by mixing it in with humor, or mentioning my family and friends being important to me. Ultimately, this stuff should get felt out on dates, but since no one wants to date me, I have to wonder, does any of it really matter?

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If it makes you feel any better, I have a HELL of a time finding quality people to talk to. That's with having a good brain and being reasonably attractive.

I'm not so sure why that is. While there's a lot of not-so-well written profiles out there (which like I said, I give a chance too), I do come across ones that do have depth, character, and wit as well... but it's almost always a case of dead air, or at best, a very unenthusiastic conversation.

Honestly, as self-defeatist as it may sound, I was chatting about this topic more generally on another forum, and I think it just boils down to me being straight-up ugly. I simply don't bring to the table what gets one considered for relationship material, and there's nothing I will ever be able to do about it. There's just got to be so many better options out there than me, and if there aren't (like I've heard women oft lament), they'd all rather be alone than give the dumper fire of a mess that is my physical manifestation a chance.

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I do agree that location can really limit your dating pool (sometimes unexpectedly). Sometimes there's just no one around for a bit.

Yeah. I'm not putting to much stake in it as I wasn't very successful dating in Portland where hipster beardos like myself were more prevalent, but I want to get out of the area for a host of other reasons so why not, right?

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Originally Posted by LadyShadow I don't think you're garbage. I read a lot of this thread and even though you're good looking and the profile was good its just "the luck of the cards" I have to say I have tried online dating in the past and sometimes I still browse my old OKCupid profile. Try not to be down on yourself. I know you feel alone and you really want to connect but this is consuming ALL of you. I guess I came to the realization that I didn't NEED anyone to be happy that's why these days I am content. I let go of all the desperation and expectation and now I am just living my life. Sometimes you just need to do just that. Life for you. I do wish you the best though and I hope your search does end with you finding the women of your dreams. Best of luck to you!

Well, for me, life is about being happy. I'm simply not happy being alone. Unlike you, I do need someone to be happy. I'm not ashamed to admit that. I want love, sex, companionship, family, home, etc. just like most people... and while some people can be happy being loners (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that), it's just not for me in particular.

That's not to say I still don't derive pleasure from all the other things in life like friends, hobbies, food, travel, etc., but that's just not a complete life to me. I'm left longing for more... female companionship and all the things that come with... and I've never been the one to chase one night stands at singles bars. That just doesn't work for me. I think most of us get to the point where we just want someone to come home to.

I've read this several times and it absolutely mystifies me - you've had feedback contrary to this from many of us on this thread, I'm not sure where you get these feelings from.

Once more, from your photo you appear above average looking, you are clearly intelligent, varied interests - yet you are doubting your own worth/attractiveness. Not only that but you are using very negative words such as 'garbage faced' about yourself, I really hope you are at the very least addressing your self-esteem issues, if not working with a T.

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Originally Posted by prefabsprout I'm not sure where you get these feelings from.

1. I haven't had a date in over three years
2. In the last six+ years, in two different large metros, I've had a grand total four dates

Hope that clears that up.

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Once more, from your photo you appear above average looking, you are clearly intelligent, varied interests - yet you are doubting your own worth/attractiveness. Not only that but you are using very negative words such as 'garbage faced' about yourself, I really hope you are at the very least addressing your self-esteem issues, if not working with a T.

I'm not really doing anything. What's there to do? I do my best to be the best person I can be, and despite that I still do not posses the value to be worth dating, replying to, swiping right, showing interest in, etc. A therapist isn't going to fix that. A plastic surgeon, maybe.

Occasionally men and women don't communicate very well. Women think they send signals and say what they mean, but men don't hear them or they hear something different...
In my opinion flirting is an art that can be learned. If you want to learn it you have to learn to listen.

Just speaking from this woman's perspective.

Aww, I hear despair and defeat. Please try not to give up! I think that there are relatively few matches out there for quality people like yourself. So you end up having to wait for another person of your sort to come along before anything really happens. You're definitely not ugly! Even if you *weren't* what is commonly considered attractive, you have a lot of great qualities, IMO. Not everyone cares only about salaries and god-like looks. I personally give no damns about such things if I don't like someone's mind. Salary only matters to the point of being able to support one's self and contribute. Surely I'm not the only girl who thinks that way.

Oh, and the comment about dating to find out about your personal qualities - throwing some of those out there would be what would more likely get you the dates, act as that hook to get someone to take a step towards you. Unfortunately, a lot of people are time-crunched and want to have an idea ahead of time about what personal qualities you might have that would make them want to invest. It's tough to go on a bunch of dates just to figure out if people are honest, sensitive, creative, heart-on-sleeve -- whatever. It's also telling what you would choose to say about yourself, what adjectives you would use. You know?

Most intelligent women aren't superficial, aren't into looks and money or particular tastes and only care about human qualities.

There are plenty very average looking or frankly physically unattractive men out there who are happily married or dating. There is way more to people than looks. Plus many women don't even care how men look. I am a good looking woman but never cared about how men look. Unless you are looking for very young ditzy girls, women wouldn't worry about looks that much. There is no accomplishment in looks, it's just genetics. Saying all that I think you are good looking but even if you were not, it means very little to most people

Same about salaries. Most intelligent people want their male employed and self sufficient but particular salary means nothing, most people wouldn't even know your salary until you get in a serious relationship.

Unless again these are ditzy gold diggers, women don't care. I know I had no clue what my husband makes until we got serious, he makes same as me, he is also just average looking and a bit on a heavy side so he is neither rich no gorgeous yet he is the most wonderful person. That's all what matters

Don't feel defeated. Or put yourself down. Focus on positive qualities of yourself and potential mate and that would happen

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Hey Burnt-out, I'm a little tired today and tbh everyone has pretty much said what I would have only better than I could.

One thing really leapt out at me from this:

I could have written word for word what you said here when I was young. I understand all to well the urge to kick yourself harder when you are down, to self-blame, I've done it all before.

Life got much better when I stopped doing that (or at least mostly stopped doing that, I guess you could say I'm in recovery), my relationships improved, friendships developed, because I was accepting of myself. It might sound simplistic but when you are not accepting of yourself that self doubt tends to come across to others, you can fake it but false confidence can be read by others too.

Maybe a T could help you understand why you beat yourself up like this, maybe that's not necessary you might be able to work on this yourself, there is a wealth of self help stuff online about self compassion. Here is something for starters:

Self-Compassion

Hi Burnt Out,

I read most of this very long thread.

You're very good looking. I like the beard

You write intelligently and witty.

I have no idea why you are not getting dates based on what you said.

If only I were younger and single...

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Originally Posted by kamikazebaby Aww, I hear despair and defeat. Please try not to give up! I think that there are relatively few matches out there for quality people like yourself. So you end up having to wait for another person of your sort to come along before anything really happens.

I dunno. I don't think I'm all that great. Just average really, maybe a bit above average in a few respects. I mean, are there that few single ladies out there on my level? Or that few not on my level but wouldn't mind giving me a shot anyway?

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Oh, and the comment about dating to find out about your personal qualities - throwing some of those out there would be what would more likely get you the dates, act as that hook to get someone to take a step towards you. Unfortunately, a lot of people are time-crunched and want to have an idea ahead of time about what personal qualities you might have that would make them want to invest. It's tough to go on a bunch of dates just to figure out if people are honest, sensitive, creative, heart-on-sleeve -- whatever. It's also telling what you would choose to say about yourself, what adjectives you would use. You know?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to express those things a bit better in a profile if I decide to put myself in the line of fire that is online dating again anytime soon. In the past, I've tried to project that a bit, but also avoid going overboard with it because anyone can pretty much say anything in a profile, true or not.

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I could have written word for word what you said here when I was young. I understand all to well the urge to kick yourself harder when you are down, to self-blame, I've done it all before. Life got much better when I stopped doing that (or at least mostly stopped doing that, I guess you could say I'm in recovery), my relationships improved, friendships developed, because I was accepting of myself. It might sound simplistic but when you are not accepting of yourself that self doubt tends to come across to others, you can fake it but false confidence can be read by others too.

I don't think you're understanding me here. I like me. I've said it a few times already: I'm happy with who I am, I like how I look, my friendships are great, and I'm confident about my capabilities. But that doesn't inherently make me attractive to women, though. Being sexually attractive has everything to do with what other people think (be it woman or man), and nothing to do with what you as an individual thinks. Sure, I see your point: If one is a navel-gazing, pouty, anti-social drag, that's going to project and people will read off that... but that's not really my sitch. I might not be the most outgoing extrovert that consistently wedges his way into being the proverbial life of the party, but I'm hardly wandering around the ether with a grimace on my face and an invisible cloud over my head.

For example, my buddy just had a rare weekend off from having his kid, so I entertained his want of hanging out in our favorite bar down in Tempe (even though I'm not drinking as such anymore), so after some righteous Texas barbecue, and mediocre coffee at the Barnes & Noble, we ventured down to kill our Saturday night at the pub. It wasn't very long until some rando guy came by and chatted us up, followed by his buddy whom I promptly gave props for his legit Rick and Morty / Run The Jewels mash-up shirt. That's not uncommon. I'm think a reasonably capable, upbeat, and relatable guy when it comes to waxing casual in conversation. Said guy threw me his card and thought we should hang again in the future. It's highly doubtful that these guys would call me "unconfident", or "dour", or whatever else you might suspect I'm projecting. I was just having a fun night out with a friend.

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Maybe a T could help you understand why you beat yourself up like this, maybe that's not necessary you might be able to work on this yourself, there is a wealth of self help stuff online about self compassion. Here is something for starters:

I've done the therapist thing on three separate occasions... and well... I didn't get anything good out of it... and just spent most of my time trying to explain myself. I'm a solutions oriented guy, and I didn't get anything empowering out of it. They just made me feel helpless and unfixable. I'd be willing to try again but not without a reference that the person was good and had an understanding for men's issues to boot.

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Originally Posted by TishaBuv Hi Burnt Out, I read most of this very long thread. You're very good looking. I like the beard You write intelligently and witty. I have no idea why you are not getting dates based on what you said. If only I were younger and single...

Awwww... thanks, Tisha. I don't know why, either.

Your comment makes me wonder though. How many of you guys and gals trying to help are in single, thirty-something, pre-marrage territory? A lot of the times when I've sought advice, I feel like while it was certainly well meaning, is a bit alien to world that I'm in here in 2016. Different circumstances, different places in life, found love in a different time period. Not to say you can't know more than my own experiences which are admittedly limited. Just curious.

Maybe its the metrosexual vibe? Which might be leaning a little too far to the gay vibe? I kinda have the same issue except for being a girl, which is that gays think im straight and straights think im gay. So imo there is a sense of unconscious contradiction coming across in the profile. Like i would think a polymath would know how to spell cache.

I read 'garbage face' and 'dumpster truck' as being down on your appearance, I apologise for my part in any misunderstanding, but the use of those words sounded emotive and negative to me. I'm glad you're happy with yourself, that is a great place to be.