Marriage separation after deployment

I haven't gotten any type of proposal

I find it troubling that from what you have shared in this thread she had said she had sex with this man. So now she is denying it? There has to be honesty in a relationship for it to work.

Exactly. She tried calling me last night like 3 times. She texted me with the following messages: "So I guess you refuse to talk if we are not fighting", "I would like to talk to you but ok Goodnight". I did a hard 180. Didn't answer her calls or texts. I just need time to think about everything and if this is something I want. All I see in my mind while I was deployed he took her out to the movies, gun ranges, food places..drinking art my house or his and touching/kissing/Fing my wife...that's all I been replaying in my head and it's a straight horrible feeling

I am seeing my therapist today and see what theybsay

I think that your choice to not engage was fine. If you are hurt and angry, which you clearly are, it's better that you don't talk when you are that emotional because you will probably just get angry and any conversation will end up getting too emotional and I have a feeling you end up expressing too much anger.

What you have said here is that you feel deeply violated and how you feel that the companionship went too far and crossed the line into becoming sexual. I know exactly how that feels and what it's like to have that play over and over in the mind the way you have described. I had to distance too, I was way too angry and hurt to have the ability to sit and talk.

I will say that alcohol definitely played a role in the cheating that my husband engaged in. It happened in our early 30's too. Had I known about the cheating I probably would have divorced tbh. It's hard to say for sure but I do know when I did find out I was devastated. And I know how you feel about "do I even know what I want?".

That being said, what you will need to do is step back and slowly look at the entire picture. I do think you have been trying to do just that and you have made it a point to reach out for help. In order for you to be able to make a logical choice about your relationship you do have to see your own part in the picture that contributed to the outcome that you are becoming aware of now. You have to get to a point where you can say "I did not appreciate what I had even though my wife was a good wife and part of what I am experiencing now is a result from that, so I have to learn how to see the entire picture and not just how "I" feel cheated on". When you just focus on one part and not the whole of it, you are not being honest about all that went into what happened as a result of "how many years did you not appreciate her?".

One night my husband came home from an AA meeting and he talked about what the discussion was in that meeting and how I should have been there because of how it touched on exactly what I am experiencing. He told me that what a lot of alcoholics don't realize is that once they get a certain number of years being sober, FINALLY, the wife gets to grieve what could be "years" of how the problem they had affected "her". I appreciated him sharing that because it was nice to know that was discussed among these individuals who were all absorbed in their own problems which in this case was the alcoholism and how just because they have gained, the wife or SO, will get to a point where they need to work through all the harm/hurt/emotional challenges it caused to them. It's a hurt that a simple "I am sorry, cards, flowers and promises" don't suddenly "just" fix. The truth about this is the years of living in an unhealthy relationship and all the damage that causes that accumulates.

Maybe what happened with your first wife contributed to not appreciating your second wife. Sometimes that takes place on such a deep level that one is not consciously aware they are protecting their hurt from one person hurting them and taking it out on another person that doesn't deserve it.

Also, it could also be that your wife was hurt in her first marriage and that hurt that affected her self esteem and sense of self worth carried on to your marriage with her where she unknowingly accepted not being appreciated even though she was a good wife to you. All it took for her to "break" was just seeing you texting another woman.

It could very well be that once that happened and then you went away for 9 months she was lost and emotionally confused and began using alcohol to help her distance from her confusion. And then she began combining alcohol with socializing and began trying to figure out her own deep hurts that "accumulated" over the years.

I have a very strong feeling that when this other guy entered her life as "just friends", your wife began to experience something she had needed for YEARS, and that includes two marriages where she was not appreciated. Some of what you have shared that she has said, "I need to do for me" is her slowly recognizing that she did not do that in either marriage, she was a good wife but was emotionally neglected.

The problem with your wife is that because she did not experience therapy where she could slowly learn to see "her own hurts" and years of being neglected emotionally, she doesn't know how to communicate it. Instead, she uses the alcohol to numb herself emotionally because she never learned how to resolve all these confusing emotions she has inside her.

You are looking at this as "the punishment doesn't fit the crime" and you are seeing "self" in this big picture, but there is another side of this big picture you don't really see and your wife doesn't have the skills and knowledge to understand it herself let alone be able to talk to you about it. Your wife doesn't know what a healthy relationship is, she never experienced it, except for some guy that showed her different things and while she liked it, it also confused her too.

This whole idea of "friends with benefits" comes from people who don't know how to have a healthy relationship so all they do is this "friends with benefits" so they don't get hurt.

One of the things I have noticed when it comes to men and women is how much a man feels violated if his wife cheats and engages in sex outside the marriage. Even if the man does it himself, it's always a lot more "evil/bad" when the woman cheats. Actually, if you look at other cultures, some cultures punish women by death if she is caught cheating, and some cultures actually remove the part of a woman that experiences sexual pleasure too.

I think this is a very deep primal thing with men where in most cultures this is considered the worst of crimes a woman can commit. Yet throughout history men had their wives and the women they cheated with outside the marriage. Men think about sex in a different light then women do and I think this is more about nature's design.

I understand some of you valid points you make. Well I hope she found the attention she needed from another man to make her feel "Not hurt". I get your vein point completely but she didn't have to sleep with another man to feel validated. She CHOSE to do it knowing she was married to me. She CHOSE to continue this behavior, it's not like it was a one time deal. She CHOSE to post it on a website, saying "I wonder if his wife knows I'm Fing hi" which is malicious in intent. She knew what she was doing and almost floated about it.

Your right, I'm at the point now do I want to be with a woman who spreader her legs to another man. I'm going to continue ignoring her, doing the 180 and move forward with my life. Every time I think about her now, my heart turns numb to her. My feelings are starting to go away for her now. After trying so hard to rectify my wrongs, admitting and wanting to seek help for us she DIDNT WANT TO EVEN ADMIT IT!!! I don't think I can move forward with a untrustworthy liar to be honest with you. She tried texting me a few times today but I'm ignoring everything till I come to a point to know exactly what I want to do. I know eventually I have to talk to her about the kids stuff, but for now, I need time away from not talking to her to have a clear sense of what I need to do. There is too much pain there right now. To not be remorseful is what's kills me the most...just admit it, be honest and throw it all out on the table...why lie????

One of the things I have noticed when it comes to men and women is how much a man feels violated if his wife cheats and engages in sex outside the marriage. Even if the man does it himself, it's always a lot more "evil/bad" when the woman cheats. Actually, if you look at other cultures, some cultures punish women by death if she is caught cheating, and some cultures actually remove the part of a woman that experiences sexual pleasure too.

I think this is a very deep primal thing with men where in most cultures this is considered the worst of crimes a woman can commit. Yet throughout history men had their wives and the women they cheated with outside the marriage. Men think about sex in a different light then women do and I think this is more about nature's design that remains to confuse and frustrate beyond one's ability to rationalize.

I understand what you are saying in that you feel deeply betrayed. I don't think your wife feels "safe" to admit everything. I remember my husband telling me that there were many times he wanted to get it off his chest and tell me. He was told to carry it to his grave too.

Yet, I think your wife was telling you, but in a way that tested the waters where you questioned if she really did cheat or if she was playing head games with you.

It's understandable that you would see her as an untrustworthy liar. I think her alcohol use enabled her to engage as that is typically what can happen once alcohol is in the picture. I think your wife had too many things come into the picture that made her very susceptible to going down this path of deception too. Being hurt, being alone, meeting others that party and drink and she got swept away by it all.

I think your distancing is wise because you are simply too emotional right now and you need time to work through this, seeing your therapist today is good and you may want to schedule a few appointments together so you can vent and get help so you can slowly move past all these negative emotions you are experiencing.

Your right, she got swept away...now she also might be swept away from this marriage....If I wanted the party life, I would have stayed single and not married. I'm not saying she can have friends but all of her friends are cheater for real. So what kind of example of a friend would that be? You are what you hang around mostly

Well, a lot of people in your age group have experienced some kind of marriage problem that often has included one or even both partners cheating. I was reading about the percentage of this happening being rather high these days.

Some marriages can be repaired even though this has happened and some don't.

It's not surprising that your wife has friends that have experienced marriage issues. And yes, she ended up with someone that cheated in his marriage too. Yes, I think your wife got swept away, and I have a suspicion the alcohol is a part of that too.

So let's see what your therapist has to say.

My therapist brought up some good points but she said I was right. Make a ultimatum. Counseling or move forward. If my wife wants this to work, she would be willing to do whatever it takes to make our marriage work which is counseling at this point

My wife actually invited me over tonight to sort things out. So I guess we will find out tonight what the deal Is. if she slept with the guy or not I just want to truth and everything

She is going to say she didn't. You'll probably never know for sure. It's not what is most important. I know a marriage the survived infidelity. Became a good and stronger marriage afterwards. Your marriage has way bigger problems. Your wife has profound damage in her whole mindset. This was due to influences that go way back before you even met her. Something was wrong in her parents' marriage. Something about the home she grew up in stunted her development. The needle on her compass is broke. You have a concept of what you think a marriage should be. Your idea if marriage may be a bit rigid and rather idealistic, but she doesn't even have a concept. She has no idea what she believes in.

Try to consider that she may not be capable of having the level of integrity that you feel a spouse should have. Somewhere along the line she never had certain values instilled in her. She's trying to create a value system for herself, and she is starting from scratch. She's like someone wild in the woods - a feral creature - trying to reinvent the wheel. She's like a primitive human trying to figure out what it took civilizations thousands of years to figure out. Her future isn't very pretty. Someday, I'll bet, you'll find yourself feeling pretty sorry for her, regardless of what you do. It feels to you like she has all the power right now. Her aporoach to life is not how anyone builds secure self-confidence and independence. You getting mad isn't going to phase her in the least. She doubts all the basic things that most people feel sure of. She's probably not going to live long enough to figure it all out. She's thrown off constraints and is conducting a big cynical experiment in "Let's see what I can get away with." She feels self-empowered by this. This is, basically, an amoral approach to life. I'm not judging her because she might have had a sexual fling. That's nowheres near the big deal that you think it is. She has no scruples. That's the big deal. She honestly thinks scruples are for suckers. That's why I say she has a streak of the sociopath in her. It's probably not her fault. You have to look at how she grew up. Something was very wrong.

You can move on. Your kids, however, are stuck with her. They don't seem to trust her either. You have to try and keep them from being damaged by her patterns. So you need a cooler head and less outrage that your manhood was insulted. Berating her is a waste of time. Her moral compass is different from yours. Her needle is broken. She knows it's different from what people generally believe. That's why she wants nothing to do with counseling. She thinks life is a game where first prize goes to whoever can be the trickiest. That's not how life works. But she wasn't taught right.

Many times when women want to break free when they have felt trapped in life they react this way. If they dont have a good strong moral value system internsl to themselves whivh basically society today has thrown out the window anyway, that direction is easy to follow because there are NO VALUES.

Getting angry at her will ONLY PUSH her away farther because it is what pushed her away from you in the first place & into the rebellion state she is in right now. With the lack of moral values thst you hold (at least for women) its no wonder her rebellion has taken on this direction.

I know when I got fed up with my H's behavior & was basically separated while trapped financially living in the same house, I could have gone either way if I didnt already have strong moral values I lived by.

All you really know are words you have read...you really DON'T KNOW exactly what your wife REALLY ACTUALLY did.....and just for your information....even if you did its NOT SOMETHING that can be used in court because all divorce unless there is physical abuse is considered to be "NO FAULT" on either side. It is considered irreconcilable differences.....if you think otherwise, you are living in the past as divorce no longer points fingers at fault unless there is actual PHYSICAL abuse involved.

Your T is right at this point without marriage counselling there is no way for your marrisge to be reconcilled. She is fighting against what was & you are desiring to go back to the way it was. She is striking out having wrong relationships while still being married & you are still striking out with anger & jealousy, exactly the things that csused her to strike out against the marrisge in the first place....so BOTH of you have a LOT OF WORK learning how to make a REAL MARRIAGE WORK.....if its even possible.

Yes, there is truth in this. You have described "what was" and you have talked about not treating her right, not appreciating her and how long that went on, "years right?". So what did she really experience of that relationship? She never was a "bad girl" and always was dutiful from what you have shared. She was like that for "years", and yet what did she get from that? It sounds to me like what she got was being unappreciated and lonely and a man who had anger issues that probably were setting the tone of the relationship. It sounds to me like she was basically living as a codependent. Actually, that was "customary" in the old ways in being a "dutiful" wife. So, there were lots of marriages where the husband and wife were just roommates. And women were not really "valued" and that began to gradually change where women began collectively wanting to be treated where they had "value".

For a long time your wife "felt" a certain way in her marriage, and she has realized that her reality is that she was unhappy and lonely. So, that is what she doesn't want to go back to. The problem is that your wife did not know how to find her own sense of value and happiness. All she knew is she was in a marriage that left her feeling she had no real value and was not really loved and appreciated and then when she caught you texting that was her breaking point.

We can LOVE someone and yet not really be happy with that person in a relationship. When the person one loves treats them poorly and then hurts them by further gazing towards others, that can be devastating "sex or not", because it's accumulative. Yet, it's not just that either because often there can be years of investing in "doing the right thing and being dutiful" and not really being appreciated. That can actually leave someone with a question, "what is my value and how can I actually be appreciated?".

Often, when this happens where someone is dutiful and ends up lonely and unappreciated, they begin to set out to do the opposite of what they were because of how it did not work and that person was unhappy and unappreciated. And your wife had nine months to practice trying to be someone very different because in her mind it led to being a lonely unappreciated person. During that time she mingled with individuals who listened to her woes and hurts and she got pulled into ideas and thoughts that led her to look at things differently. While she set out to explore however, she was out of her comfort zone and also feeling rejected, hurt, vulnerable so she began to use alcohol to help her relax and have some courage to explore. She has been trying to find herself, and probably for the first time too. So she got into a group of friends and went out and drank and slowly began to "feel" like she was developing her own identity. Within this group was this guy and when she was with him she felt "heard, seen, appreciated" and she began to realize how much that was missing in her life.

In a lot of ways your wife was inexperienced and unsure and she began to use the alcohol to help her be able to relax and be less inhibited. Unfortunately, that slowly becomes a crutch and a person is not going to think about it like that as it becomes an accessory that goes with the journey of exploration.

The "truth" is that while you were away she wasn't thinking about you. Instead she was thinking about how she was "hurt" and "unhappy" and she began looking for companionship and advice. She was also questioning "her" value and she was actually very insecure about that. So, this made her very vulnerable where when she began spending time with that other man and getting appreciated and having fun and adventures to giving in to also being more intimate sexually, especially when alcohol is involved where the person slowly loses any inhibitions and even caring about what's right and what's wrong. Actually, I remember having a conversation with someone who developed a problem and when I asked them about the sex itself, the reply was, "honestly, I was too drunk to actually remember". But, I only got that information when the individual realized they had a problem and was on the path of living their life "sober" and was FINALLY willing to admit they had a problem. The choice of that woman when it came to alcohol was "wine". A lot of women choose "wine" because it has a tendency to be considered a lesser evil when it comes to alcohol and is somewhat a "lady's" drink.

So, you were away for several months and by the time you got back, your wife was in a state where she was not "oh so happy to see you". While you thought of that length of time as being a long time, your wife was more of "it's wasn't long enough". That's because the entire time you were gone, she found a way to escape from the hurt she felt just before you left. However, she was going to experience another kind of rejection and that was yet another hit to her sense of "self". And that is what you witnessed when you were sitting on the bed and she was hurting and confused and you did not know what to do, neither did she. What she was experiencing that night was not feeling "safe" with her "now", and not feeling safe with her "past" (you) and not knowing what to do.
Because now she has been hurt in both ways she tried to be "valued and appreciated".

Well, from what I can see of what you shared, your wife genuinely doesn't know WHAT to do. I think that what she was doing with that "whisper" site was she was using it to figure out what she did experience and how to actually look at it so she can get over yet another form of rejection. Your wife is very confused about "relationships" and she is not ready to actually commit to anything in the state she is in right now. And she knows she can't be honest with you because history has shown that you will just get angry and judge her, and she can't really handle that right now either.

IMO, her reaching out to you that night where you ended up having sex was more of a very lonely confused woman that wanted to be held and comforted. But, that was also kinda lonely in that she was not really able to say, "I am so lost and hurt and confused and here is how I tried to change and I ended up just getting hurt". Also, "I was so hurt and lonely and felt like I had no value when you hurt me, and in my effort to see if I had value, I ended up getting hurt again and NOW I am very lost. I experienced things that showed me what I was missing, someone came into my life and made me feel good and I had fun, and I loved experiencing that, yet, that ended up in yet another confusing hurt too. But I can't tell you about any of that because all you will do is get angry and tell me I am a bad person and I don't want to feel that way right now. I can't really tell you the truth because you would NEVER understand it and would just get angry".

Well, I don't know how your conversation is going to go with this meeting to talk things over. It probably won't go very well because I don't think your wife has the ability to articulate her "own" personal challenge without you getting all angry with her. All you will think about is the "cheating" part and how that makes you feel, and you won't be able to understand how, in the scheme of things, while that may have happened, what your wife was trying to find was her own sense of value and to learn how to "feel" wanted and appreciated verses just playing some kind of role where she was lonely and unhappy and then hurt.

I get your point, but she MADE THE CHOICE to cheat. It's wrong regardless. Either way, I was willing to overlook it to get back on track with marriage counseling. Even my therapist said one on one friendships of the opposite sex are bad for marriages. I never said she couldn't go out, find herself and have fun. Getting drunk at clubs and sleeping with men is hardly "Finding" yourself. If that's the case, maybe I need to "find" myself too lol.

As for last night it was a bust. She still denies everything. We ended up kissing and doing the usual sexual stuff and I stayed the night.

WHY? If you want to end the marriage because she wont tell you what you want to hear why are you sending her mixed messages?....ah, it's just about the sex?

you MADE THE CHOICE to be angry & jealous before she ever cheated....That is wrong regardless too.

The sad part about this is that you're actually being serious, and not attempting humor or sarcasm...

I've got 3 words: Apples and oranges

What "did" she talk about with you?

She said she wants to be an individual and have friends.

And your reply to that?

Go for it. But understand that it's not respectful if a woman who is married is going out with other men. Then I asked what if I did that?

And how did your wife reply to you asking her how she would feel if you went out with other women?

Actually sometimes that approach works in that you get the other person to consider how they would feel if you decided to go out and have fun and have "women friends".