So You Like The Advice, But.....

Basic question. You like the advice coming from a certain person, but when you stand back & look at the situation you realize that this person cannot take their own advice.
So is it good advice?

First example I think of is a personal trainer. Normally I’d want a personal trainer that “looks” like they take their own advice, right? They keep their body in shape. This builds trust. I find it hard taking advice from a GP that is obese to tell me to lose weight.
Make sense?

So I’ve had a person I’ve been using for advice. And advice is something that I’m seeking someone with knowledge & wisdom in the subject. Not a person with an opinion.
The track record of the advice I’ve been given from this person I have to say, has been pretty good. Difficult to take & use which is frustrating, but looking back, it’s been pretty good.
But if I really look at this person, they don’t take any of their own advice for themselves.

So now that I see this it makes me second guess the advice that was given.

Any ideas?

I'd liken it to nutrition. Had this one seminar, in a room full of 'experts' talk about better choices for better health, yet, she admitted to a love for carbs or whatever it was on vacations with her husband and how even a moment of weakness would find herself pulling out the scale to provevto her husband how she wasn't kidding as to why she couldn't "keep up" with him in all the delicious vacation choices. So yes, a nutritionist can guide towards better eating, yet, can struggle themselves. So, in her case or the field in general, perhaps realizing that there is solid and sound advice despite the real, valid struggles in life's practice?

Thats a toughie. I had advice for my relatives when they were raising their kids, but i never had my own kids. I couldnt stay in a relationship long enough, basically. So - now that we see how the kids turned out, you can say i wasnt wrong, but i dont think you can say i was right, because i really did not walk a mile in their shoes.

So if this person doesnt follow their own advice, i guess i would ask them why. Maybe that would give both of us more insight into the issue. Like a therapist doesnt give advice, really; they might get you to discuss other options and why or why not?

You say the advice was difficult to use so maybe it was the same thing for the person who gave it. Also, it takes time to make changes.

It has always been much easier for me to follow advice from people who are kind and moral from my POV (I suppose morals differ depending on what you value.) In high school, college, the Air Force, etc. many times when there were friends, coworkers, supervisors, etc. whom I admired, I tried to adopt some of their practices and began believing in some of their POVs. They were all the types of people who tried to help others. If the person was a person I admired in some way, I could take the advice even if they were not practicing it. Perhaps they are also trying to follow their own advice but it is a lofty goal?

When you see someone who has used the advice they give, you know it’s humanely possible to execute said advice

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I'd sooner have advice given to me by someone who has taken said advice before and is proof positive that it's beneficial in some way than someone who just gives advice out without any proof to back it up.

If I were in your shoes, Patagonia, I'd be confused and second guessing my life choices based on the advice given to me from someone who doesn't follow there own advice at all. It's a perfectly natural reaction to have. It's also perfectly natural for mistakes to happen. Nobody is 100% perfect in every way. We all make mistakes.

"To err is to be human" as Alexander Pope once said, "and to forgive, divine." I suppose that means to forgive the person whom you feel gave you errant advice now that you look back upon it, and to learn from what you've observed and done so that you can better make decisions and life choices with confidence in the future.

We can't change what happened in our past, but we can learn from our pasts and use what we've learned to better be prepared for the future. That's a lesson I learned from a beloved, wise and wacky baboon in a popular Disney movie.

People might give good advice precisely because they know “what NOT to do”.

For example an addict would advice not to take up recreational drug or drink too much because you run a risk of becoming an addict. Because that’s what happened to them. Or someone in a bad marriage would advice others to avoid particular people or situation so they don’t end up like this. Or people diagnosed with cancer would advice others to do timely check ups because they didn’t.
Etc etc etc etc

I think it’s different than people advising on things they know nothing about

You might be interested in this podcast regarding the ethical behavior of ethics professors:

philosophy bites: Eric Schwitzgebel on the Ethical Behaviour of Ethics Professors

What makes advice good advice? It will get you what you want.
If it works, does it matter from whom it comes?

I just commented on another thread that I gave such good advice, but ironically, I didn’t use that same advice to free myself. Does that make my advice, bad advice? No. I’m sure it was still good advice. But, it came from an idiot.

Advice has to be both 'good' and 'convincing'. So naturally, four different types of advice will exist.

Obviously, many people don't follow their own advice.

It’s been difficult to unwrap the complexity of this person & the advice I’ve received.
Like I said, most of the advice I’ve been given & asked for has been beneficial & useful in helping me grow. The last time I saw my T & explained some things I was surprised to hear my T uttering a concurring direction to look at, one I don’t relish. And I was like “crap, this person said the same thing....maybe their right?”

The teachings & advice I’ve been given from this person has been very enlightening & life changing. I can’t go back now to the person I was before bec of this knowledge I’ve gained about myself.

So yes I feel like proof should be in the puddle so to speak, but it’s not 100% there. Typically most find their way & prophetize (so) it to others. I mean isn’t that how self help books r set up?

This person is beyond intelligent, extremely well read type philosopher/ teacher/ guru. And I guess they take their own advice, but seems to have human hang ups too, like all of us.
It’s just very hard to listen...& not point fingers then.

I found this article on the subject interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...liver-burkeman

I think the general gist is in order to give helpful advice it helps to have struggled with the same issue yourself, but not necessarily been successful. Kind of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

I like the references posted. It helps to look at a different angle.

So another example is my anger & rage & how to deal with it. Yes there many people that have anger issues, but there are so many different philosophies about handling it, self help books, work books, etc you know what I mean? And yeah I’ve tried a few, but no help yet. So if I read everything & try all these changes, well it could take yrs so I get frustrated...& angry! Lol.

So I do see a lot of this “do as I say, not as I do” theory. It doesn’t seem to be the quickest way for us to evolve.

Proselytize - usually means like to preach religion, but yeah i think it makes sense the way you used it. People are trying to convert you to their way of thinking.

You are very gracious Unaluna, thank you. Yes I think that’s the word I want....words sometimes r difficult to string together for me from my head to the screen.
Thank you!

I think many people have a general idea towards the best solution to a problem, but aren't able to really manage it themselves. For example, if I told my sister I need a car, but don't have enough money, common sense says she would tell me to save up. If I said I can't, I don't have an income, she would undoubtly say find a source of income, as would many others. If I said I wasn't getting called for interviews, she may say try a staffing agency, or take a class in a particular skill if possible, and so on.

It wouldn't be hard to determine those bits of advice as a possible solution. The kicker is that if that advice came from her, well... she's never worked more than a year and has never bought her own car.

This world would be a very different place if people actually went and did what they have already recognized to be good solutions in life, but I can say atleast part of it depends on what I want in life vs. the person advising me. My sister has no interest in getting a job or car so she's not likely to take her own advice in that situation, even after advising me on it. Sometimes people can come up with ideas/solutions that wouldn't even apply to themselves in an effort to try to give someone else an idea of what route they could take. But it's still best to be advised by someone who is knowledgable with the issue I suppose. If not just because their advice would probably be more thorough, rather than just generalized.

I dunno, there's several factors to consider I guess as to why someone is not interested in taking their own advice.

Agent Misty
I was thinking about the dilemma you stated above. You said:

“sometimes people can come up with ideas/solutions that wouldn’t even apply to themselves in an effort to try to give someone else an idea of what route they could take.”
And this made me think of what I was taught in school. I was taught to seek advice from family, but also the clergy. And many times I did go to my church leaders looking for advice on marriage, communication, family & child rearing etc & now I think wow they had NO experience, but always told me what path to take based on a book & teachings. Yet this person in the clergy clearly didn’t have the experience.

So this person I’ve currently gotten advice from is maybe similar to someone in the religious life..?? Not experienced in their own lives in certain areas, but refer to a higher power for answers.
Idk it makes me second guess every single thing I do, every small decision & every word from my mouth bec I just don’t know anything anymore

http://www.lifehack.org/464077/dont-...some-solutions

I always like to go back to the beginning and figure out my values and goals. Like make a mental fresh start, then figure out where you are and where you want to be.

I was never taught about seeking advice and from whom at all. Nothing like that was ever said in my upbringing. I was taught right from wrong by my mother, as time went by, as situations occurred, or as I watched things unfold for others in my family or friends.

I was taught to trust my own instincts. I was taught that nobody knows more than I do, deep down, like clergy. Pshaw! Every person of stature turned out to be a fraud! My mother was very vocal about that. I guess it unleashed with Nixon and The Beatles, and that’s how I was raised.

So, the advice I feel that I can give is only on subjects that I feel competent, of course. It is either through my mother’s teachings, or from what I’ve learned from seeing for myself.

I love getting advice from others, and everybody loves to give advice. But, I never thought about if that person is giving good advice because they are successfully living their own advice.

Maybe there’s a type of intelligence, ‘people smarts’. I have a good sense if I do X, then Y will happen. I’m not sure how I learned human nature so well.

So are you saying that this has worked for you? Through your life? Or did you make changes?

You stated that “nobody knows more than I do.” I found that extremely interesting. I was taught the exact opposite. I was taught that I don’t know anything & when I thought I did, voiced it especially to family, if I disagreed, I was condemned for it bec I was not following along. I was not taught to be a free thinker. I was also taught that I shouldn’t be confident in my thinking bec that came across as arrogance & I needed to go back & be humble. (I think this was rooted in my religious upbringing) I still hear this today from my own parents.

Then enter most of my life with huge issues of MH & well I was labeled “sick.” Sick people don’t make good decisions or even think straight so any decisions I made out of confidence were construed as wrong bec “I’m sick”, just listen to everyone else. And I did. I’ve been “sick” for a very long time.

Looking back on this loop of indecision’s throughout my life it’s made me second guess just about everything. Anything I can point to in confidence from then, a part of me can taint that memory with a bad outcome. So to have confidence, listen to my own intuition or feel like I’m doing the right thing....leaves me walking in circles of self doubt. Constantly!

Even people now that offer advice, maybe even good advice, a part of me looks for the negative, the places I could fail & this loop breeds so much self doubt I become frozen. I just don’t do anything out of fear. And that breeds anger into rage over what I’ve become.

I find this an interesting thread. I have often received advice from people who had no clue what they were talking about. First, if it's unsolicited advice, I just say thanks and move on. Try to cut off the conversation quickly because there's nothing more I hate than getting advice I didn't ask for. If I need help, I will ask. Otherwise, don't assume I do and start telling me all your worldly wisdom...especially when the person typically doesn't know any of the details of what I'm dealing with and their advice is moot.

BUT, when I do seek advice, I don't mind if the person has no experience in what I'm dealing with. I take it with a grain of salt and also remember that it's advice, I can take it or leave it. If it seems relevant to me, then I can choose to try it or not. I've learned that even someone who hasn't experienced my problem, may have experienced something else, and they may have a unique viewpoint that could help me figure out how to do something. So maybe their advice has an indirect effect on my solution. Like if I'm looking for a job and someone who has never been employed gives me advice, yeah, what do they know? But they are still a person with common sense and good ideas. Maybe it's a good idea to consider?

I think, in the end, you have to consider all the advice and decide what's best for you. I don't think that someone's whole life experience should discount that they may have a good or new perspective for you to consider on something.

On the other hand, there are some people who have no business giving advice. Lol.

I don't know if this ramble made any sense.

Seesaw

Yes, thinking for my self, going with my gut, trusting in myself and my points of view have never steered me wrong.

We are all born babes to this world. What makes any one of us know any more than any other? Just because clergy have mastered their knowledge of religion doesn’t make them any internally smarter, deep down than you or me. Plus, I’ve personally known some to be super messed up and hypocrites!

Now, in the case where you know you have MI, and you know that can cause you to feel like something is a good idea that is certainly a bad idea, well, there you make a good point. I try not to be too impulsive. If I have doubts about something, I may take my time before doing it, run the idea by others, get feedback. Do you learn from your mistakes? Do you really make terrible choices? Or have you been led to think you always make terrible choices?

If you run an idea past several others, you’ll usually get a general consensus that will be good advice.

I feel for you in never knowing who to trust and feeling like you can’t trust yourself.

Now, my mother is rather narcissistic. She did teach me her POV of how things should be. But, she also did teach me to think for myself and I did defy her if I thought that’s what’s right. I did what I wanted to do. If I made a bad choice, I learned from it.

Thanks seesaw
Your ramblings make sense to me. I don’t want unsolicited advice either which I think is why I don’t say very much irl. In fact, irl I don’t really talk to anyone. I talk to my kids when their home & talk to my SO about the day, schedules & on the surface life stuff. That’s it. Deep conversations r out of the question. So I keep to myself. I hate to socialize. Hate to visit my family which very much likes to get into my business, ask probing questions I don’t answer, offer advice I don’t care for & label it as “caring.” My views are not valued so I stay quiet. It works.
I used to value the advice of my family, but there’s too many things I disagree with. Nobody in my family understands me or really cares to bec I don’t hold their values or ethics. Mine r just seen as wrong. So that well has dried up. And I don’t trust myself.

My family is just the opposite, we talk and over think everything! We do care about and help each other with good advice, although we laugh about how none of us use that good advice to help ourselves. (That’s a totally different issue!)

And, yes, my mother is very judgmental and won’t “approve” of anything we do that doesn’t meet her values and she’ll loudly let us know. But, then we do what we want anyway.

When I was 4, I got hold of a book of matches and lit them, and got caught doing it. My mother turned on the store burner, not super hot, and had me put my fingers on it to feel what getting burnt would feel like, and so I’d never play with fire again. That’s just an early example I could think of that taught me to think for myself. Good parenting, IMHO.

“Yes, thinking for my self, going with my gut, trusting in myself and my points of view have never steered me wrong.”

See this, to me, is just amazing. Really. I’m jealous over this statement. I want that or even a year or 2 where I can look back & say, hey you did a pretty good job there patagonia.


“Now, in the case where you know you have MI, and you know that can cause you to feel like something is a good idea that is certainly a bad idea, well, there you make a good point. I try not to be too impulsive.”

This is a sticking point for me. Sometimes I don’t know if I’m being impulsive. I feel like I’m making good sound decisions. I’ve checked all the boxes for go & move in a forward direction. Then....something happens. It could be just one person saying what a bad idea that was....didn’t you think about this or that....even one bad day of negative thoughts & it comes crashing down as a huge failure & im devastated for awhile, then angered. Now recently I’ve tried not to point out all the bad, but to see the positive parts too & that’s difficult to hear in my head when the negative is so loud!

“If I have doubts about something, I may take my time before doing it, run the idea by others, get feedback.
Do you learn from your mistakes?”

What I’ve learned from yrs of MH issues is not to make important decisions, just let it go until things r better. How do I know when I’m better bec when I think I’m better it could be just another part of my MI playing games (omg I’m talking in circles!) sorry.

“Do you really make terrible choices?”

When I look back, well hindsight taints everything, yeah I can point out all the mistakes. Sorry.