Selfish MEN! - Grrrrrrrrrrr

For you AAAAA I am glad..... and please count your self to be blessed among the relationship realm.

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muffy said:
I have been watching this post for along time. I do not want to upset anyone.

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Muffy..... you would NEVER upset me just by sharing your POV on a topic posted here at PC.

Thanks for caring enough to share how you feel toward the subject of "selfish men" - you too are counted blessed by me for life has not given me the same POV that you have toward men.

The effect of gender on everything--emotional processing, relationships, personality--has always fascinated me. I think it's fine to diss on "selfish men" as a group. The size of that group makes no difference in how I'd deal with it, and to assume figures, even general ones that use words like "many" or "most," isn't rational or useful.

I'll agree with you. I don't like selfish people, but selfish males in particular frustrate me. Perhaps it's because their motives differ because of their gender, and it's hard for me as a girl to understand them. But I can't hold them responsible for that.

Anyway, I feel for you. There are too many selfish people in the world, and I'm sorry you've had bad experience with them. Apparently there are people reading a lot into this, when I'm sure all you're looking for is support.

I did say an initial "Amen" when I first read Rhapsody's outcry, for I too have had nearly as many years experience in being exceedingly disappointed by males. However, I do know some exceptional males (as rare as hens teeth) who generally don't epitomise the rest of the male species.

Women can be bloody orrible also though.

I dunno,. ... it's good to vent huh! :-)

BIG HUG

I too know a few "selfish" women, and one in particular shines out. I work with her, and she is so self-absorbed. She is married, and as I listen to her go on and on about herself, I often wonder how that works with a partner!!
Patty

I don't know what to say but that this thread hurts me. I've spent my life trying to be a good person and yet I've been told by many women that men are selfish and evil.

I feel a deep sympathy for the historic plight of women. In fact, you can add gays, minorities, the handicapped and yes, even us, the mentally ill, to that list. To be taken advantage of by those in power is horrible and inexcusable.

But where does this leave me? Where does it leave my sons? Why, in fact, are women even interested in having male children if they are hopelessly doomed to this fate?

The whole thing feels hopeless.

I shouldn't have read this thread but I did, I found it upsetting, and so I'll be on my way.

Oh, and both my wife and I work full time and we both split the housework/child rearing responsibilities.

Cyran0

CyranO...You sound like a wonderful man, and an ideal partner. Please don't be upset by us blowing off steam.
I wish I had had the good fortune to find a man like you.
You and your wife sound like the perfect couple!
Patty

I'm feeling better now, thank you. I just needed to get off this thread for a bit. I read all six pages in one sitting so, umm, that was probably bad.

*big exhale*

As for being the perfect couple? lol. I don't know about that. We're both complicated and we don't always agree. But we try and I feel lucky to have that give and take in my life.

Cyran0

This is not the first, or last time you women have started a men bashing thread, and I doubt it will be the last time either, Before you continue your bigoted responses towards men in general, generated from the actions of a few, but not all men Do yourself a favour and look in the mirror, see the female version of everything you hate about men, how does it feel knowing the same sentiments you portray towards men is thrown right back at you in your own reflection, only look at it from a males point of view, mine, does that make me a bigot also? I do so like being labelled.

actually what i was trying to say but more directly to the point.
When you generalize and categorize negatively a whole entire gender it says more about you than it does about the group you are degrading.

So much of how each gender behaves is constructed by the society we live in. We have all heard of media influences from Fashion magazines, television sitcoms, scripted talk shows and we have assessed the roles we teach our children by buying them pink frilly things for girls or aggressive toys for boys. We have also heard of competitive natures in males and passive natures of females....blah blah blah. The problem is we really do get influenced by these gendered roles our society pushes on us constantly. When relationships develop, males have been taught to behave in a manner different from females and we then have conflicts because our partners do not understand us or think as we do.

We have to stop expecting things to be the perfect fit. Nothing ever is. If we are not willing to bend (EQUALLY) for eachother, it will not work out. Notice I have said EQUALLY. That is the key point. What will each person be willing to bend for? What bending do we expect of our partners? We need to be willing to negotiate, and be willing to communicate with respect. Things can workout if there is communication and respect.

P.S. My marriage didn't work out either. His behaviour was totally unacceptable as a father and husband, BUT I saw that in him before he proposed. I had seen his flaws since the first date and I kept forgiving it until it reached a critical level. So, I was as much to blame for that period of unhappiness.

I guess after thinking about it...I'm selfish.
I indulge in my hobbies, spend my money as I please and travel and spend time with friends, as the occasions arise.
I also encourage my wife to indulge in her hobbies (and she does), visit her friends and travel (she does) and buy whatever she needs (she doesn't spend as much as me but she buys whatever she needs)
So, I agree...men can be selfish...if you define selfish as taking care of one's self.
But I take care of her needs too.

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gtrplayer said:
So, I agree...men can be selfish...if you define selfish as taking care of one's self.
But I take care of her needs too.

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Then YOU my Dear MAN are not SELFISH........ as a SELFISH MAN (or person) only takes care of their needs / wants and forgets about the needs of the other people in their life at least 90% of the time.

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magasanguis said:
I'll agree with you. I don't like selfish people, but selfish males in particular frustrate me.
Perhaps it's because their motives differ because of their gender, and it's hard for me as a girl to understand them.

Anyway, I feel for you. There are too many selfish people in the world, and I'm sorry you've had bad experience with them. Apparently there are people reading a lot into this, when I'm sure all you're looking for is support.

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- for seeing what my HEART was NEEDING.......
and for not reading more into what I said othre than what I was doing "complaining about selfish men" - and for not taking it personally against all "man" kind.... just the selfish ones.

YOU are a DEAR Lady.....

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Cyran0 said:
I don't know what to say but that this thread hurts me. I've spent my life trying to be a good person and yet I've been told by many women that men are selfish and evil.

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Dear Cyrano,

I am sorry that my thread hurt you, but please know that it was not meant to hurt you or any other man that is not selfish..... my words were directed towards "the men that are selfish" to others in their life with in every way known to man kind.

Please take my thread as it was written and do not let it ponder into your mind, for as you said you are a nice guy that tries and loves (you give & take)...... and that in my book is an A+.

While I do know a few good men that are not selfish (my older brother being one of them) - I still have to VENT as to release the anger that still lies with in my after seeing how selfish men can be.... for if I do not vent then the anger will consume me one day - after I vent I am better, I heal another inch of my wound.

I personally wish for the day to come where one can post on PC with out it being taken to heart as an attack on them or their entire gender.
- - just because words are stated negatively about males or females that does not make it true for their entire gender / all mankind (all PC members should be adult enough to know that).

I for one do not and will not take words stated against females, ex-wives or girlfriends as an attack against me or the entire female species.... I would only see it as an attack IF it personally held some truth in it toward me and my life.

Take-care and know that MEN are still LOVED by ME..... I just have ANGER for the SELFISH ONES.

Selfish could be defined as an action my ex-husband took. He had the children and I going to the food bank to get food, because money was not in the bank for groceries, meanwhile, he would suddenly show up with a $5000 piece of computer equipment. When I confronted him about it and asked if we could take some of his computer money to buy food, he gave me $50 to buy the basics. That was a selfish man.

........A few years ago, I would have said "amen, amen, amen" to everything you have said about men and would have "with glee" added my comments which of course would have not been very nice.

I think when we are still feeling the "sting" of being hurt, neglected or not understood by our male companions we tend to lash out at all men. I know I did.

I also know that I have encountered some pretty "nasty" women too. But I have also met and made friends with some wonderful men and women.

I guess what I am trying to say is there are some "good guys" out there in this big bad world. Not all men are abusive and cruel. Not all men are "pricks". I have met both "pricks and good men". It seems I get along better on the "friendship" level. And so I stay on the "friends" level. Maybe for me, it is meant to stay single. I've been married twice and my dreams of a happy family was shattered both times.

I may be playing it safe. Well I know I am. Because I have shed 25 lbs and starting to get scared that men will be "checking me out". But then shedding lbs. is not for the men. It is for me because I feel better when I am thinner. I also get in more "trouble" when I am thinner. hmmm

Ok, I may not be making sense. I on one hand say there are great guys out there and on the other hand saying I am terrified of being in a relationship.... shrugs shoulders.... For now, single is safety. Single, is also lonely. I will still choose a movie or a book or ice cream over a real live date. lol

Lordy, I am talking in circles. I just know that NOT ALL MEN are jerks. And to carry all that "anger" inside because I have been hurt has only weighed me down and caused me anguish. So I have learned to let it all go. Be careful and be hopeful. Just maybe one day something good will come my way..........

i was under the impression that this was just a ranting page not necessarily hating all men. i have said so many times "all men are pigs" but i dont really feel that way. but when you catch your boyfriend cheating, or your husband is abusive or every guy you date is a jerk you need to vent.

i dont think the intention was for anyone to become seriously offended. we know deep down that there are nice guys out there. but usually those nice guys dont have game LOL so we never meet them lol

Ok, I may not be making sense. I on one hand say there are great guys out there and on the other hand saying I am terrified of being in a relationship.... shrugs shoulders.... For now, single is safety. Single, is also lonely. I will still choose a movie or a book or ice cream over a real live date. lol


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I feel the same way, radio_flyer. I am much happier now with a slight distance between myself and men. I like them and respect them, as acquaintances, but if they become interested in dating me....my trust ends there. I cannot take the struggles anymore. I am comfortable with my independence now. I don't want to change that anymore.

Hey!! My quote didn't work!!!! Grrrrrrrrr

Men are fine but computers are my enemy!! LOL

I am sorry but the way this thread is going is just exactly what I am talking about. Anytime a woman talks about legitimate problems with the lack of equality between the sexes, people (women too!) call them "man bashers" and then women start backpeddling and apologizing. When are women going to stop apologizing for asserting themselves and saying what the reality is? The fact that there are a few good guys in the mix doesn't mean that there isn't a problem -- a systemic social problem. That's the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. Look at the statistics, everyone, they are a google click away. Look at the statistics for women raising kids without support, women getting battered, sexual abuse in families etc. If it's bad in North America where there are laws to protect women, imagine what they are like in places where there is no protection.

This is not about making men and the women who love them feel guilty. But it is important to recognize a problem. As for women who have sons, what to do? Raise them to respect women. Show them a good female model by respecting yourself. The more guys see women letting them get away with stuff, the more they will feel comfortable doing it.

Well, yes, Spal, there is a problem...but how do we take care of it? You come up with the solution, and I will gladly be behind you.

Its horrible (beyond horrible) that stuff like this happens...but its almost like any other kind of atrocity you can think of...one person cannot do much, and even all of PC cannot do much...but as you mentioned, raising children (NOT JUST THE BOYS) to respect WOMEN. Thats part of the problem too...some women dont respect themselves...

Of course, it never justifies someone getting hurt, but I dont really think all the blanket solutions we have here are never gonna realistically help anyone, sadly. I really wish they would. And yes, I do teach my nephews (and my nieces) to respect women AND men. Without respect, you get all this crap that goes on now...violence against women AND men...violence against both sexes of the elderly...prostitution and the like of both sexes.

Its not just a women thing...I really think that is part of why the "men" got mad.

I DO see your point, and I do agree--but just having men be respectful doesnt mean a thing if women dont respect themselves as well...

Ingridave said, "Ok, I may not be making sense. I on one hand say there are great guys out there and on the other hand saying I am terrified of being in a relationship.... shrugs shoulders.... For now, single is safety. Single, is also lonely. I will still choose a movie or a book or ice cream over a real live date. lol

I feel the same way, radio_flyer. I am much happier now with a slight distance between myself and men. I like them and respect them, as acquaintances, but if they become interested in dating me....my trust ends there. I cannot take the struggles anymore. I am comfortable with my independence now. "

I could have posted this same comment! I feel the same.
It's actually not a bad place to be.
Patty

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spal said:
I am sorry but the way this thread is going is just exactly what I am talking about.
Anytime a woman talks about legitimate problems with the lack of equality between the sexes, people (women too!) call them "man bashers" and then women start backpeddling and apologizing.

When are women going to stop apologizing for asserting themselves and saying what the reality is?

The fact that there are a few good guys in the mix doesn't mean that there isn't a problem -- a systemic social problem.

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AMEN! AMEN! - You have what I have been thinking about for the last two days and what I was going to come here this morning to say......

YOU just said it way much better than I could have -

What I have personally found as a member here on PC is that I am one of the rare few women here that will express what they need to concerning our thoughts and fears of being in a relationship with a male - BUT then we inadvertently after speaking our mind (from our POV) we sit back and wait for the "back lashing" to begin, we wait for more trouble to be stirred up than what needed to be in the first place by the protesting that comes in the defense of MEN instead of trying to help with the problem at hand.

I personally would not feel the need to come to the defense of ALL WOMEN just because a MALE member on here might have expressed an issue they have with the opposite sex..... I personally would validate his feelings from his side of the fence and then see what solution we could come up with together.

Maybe the next time a female expresses her feelings about a male or most men in general - maybe just maybe we all can see the problem from their concern and not act a little child that just got scolded by mommy....... all feelings are real and should be validated not bashed or more wrong is being done than any good can ever come out of the bashing when some one is brave enough to express their true feelings.

I feel the same way for any MAN that needs to talk about how HE feels toward FEMALES....... I am not one sides here, for if a male needs to express how he cannot trust female or how he believes that most females are *****y - I would allow it (always have) - for ALL FEELINGS COUNT (even if I see the subject in a brighter light).

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Here I finally found it - some scientific research of what I have been trying to say........ being selfish (or selfless) is in our genetic make up (our inner blue print - DNA), and not just a social thing.

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Are Women Less Selfish Than Men?: Evidence From Dictator Experiments

Research in social sciences other than economics indicates substantial differences in behavior between men and women. The general conclusion drawn from this work is that women will be more socially-orientated (selfless) and men are more individually-orientated (selfish).

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=ecoj

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Hmm- not what do we do with this?