Goodbye to Toxic Relationships

To me it sounds likes he is too attached to his mother, thus he can not have a healthy relationship with a woman. I don't now. You have put me into thinking now...

Well, to me it's not a glaring red flag that would end the relationship right now, but something to be cautious of and to sit back and observe over time.

If it hasn't come up several times before that he seems overly attached, then one time alone is not really enough (imo) to conclude that he cannot have a healthy relationship with a woman.

But as my therapist says about yellow flags, they are something to watch and observe.... to be aware of and to see if a pattern develops. Where it can be unhealthy is if his attachment negatively impacts your relationship or your own mental health.

My therapist compares the feeling out period of relationships to buying a car... driving it, looking under the hood, kicking the tires, etc etc before committing to a purchase.

I will be trying to work through our relationship, but for me this is the last time. when I have a T again, he will be going with me, so we as a couple of over 26 years learn the important ways to communicate, without all the extra difficultys on both sides.

Not necessarily.

I have never met my mother in law as she passed away from cancer many years ago. My husband sometimes mentions what she liked (something that I like too). My husband is wonderful and has no “mommy” issue. Although he does miss his mother a lot. I think it’s red flag if people are obsessing or bringing up their mothers up at inappropriate times (during sex of other extreme cases). Other than that I don’t think it’s wrong. I bring up my mother randomly as she is on my mind (very ill with cancer right now) we also bring up our kids randomly (not mutual kids) at all times.

But there are no red flags in our marriage. In fact loving one’s mother and being a good father is a green light for me rather than red flag.

So it depends

Update:

He wrote back and replied to my email. I saw the first few words, I could tell it was going to be super nasty, so I DELETED it without reading it.

I am SO proud of myself for doing this.

In the past, with each toxic relationship, I have engaged in their toxic, negative communication styles and I've fought back, defended myself and also went on the attack against their abuse towards me. I stooped to their level, each and every time.

This time, I did it differently and I deliberately CHOSE NOT TO ENGAGE.

This has done wonders for my mental health!!!

I feel empowered. I feel strengthened. I have chosen positive mental health and self-care, vs. negative behavior. This is a BIG step for me.

Previously, through all toxic relationships, their poor treatment of me stuck around for a very long time. Now, I can rinse myself of him, of his toxic ways and not engage in it... I can skip happily away, with my self-esteem in tact.

I feel I have really come a long way. This is a turning point for me in life.

Although, I have now had several nightmares since of being attacked. I know it relates to his email.

This morning I did an energy cleanse, and it's working. I lit a white candle, I burned some incense, I put on ocean waves in the background and asked the universe to take away the negative, toxic energy from me. And I do feel lighter, better... weird, but effective.

I’m surprised. That’s a man who sat there and percolated on your email, then a week or so later, replied telling you off. I see this as you got under his skin. I assume his email was him defending himself and probably saying your behavior was bad. Too bad it wasn’t just a kind apology and mature closure.

Possibly.. or he didn't see the email until just recently. He doesn't always check email. But it is possible it got under his skin.

Yes, too bad he couldn't be mature. But how could I expect anything different from someone so lowly?

TY for your reply!

Yes, good bye to toxic relationships. The fact that he had to write you back nasty, shows it was toxic. What ever happened to chivalry? Why couldn’t the man simply say he’s sorry it didn’t work out and wish you well? Why the fight? So much would be better in the world if people just apologized when they hurt someone. So much of the time the apology is what the hurt person just wants to feel better. It’s FREE and so easy to give. What’s wrong with people?

I say that ALL the time -- "what is wrong with people??"

Seriously. Is it SO hard to apologize and own up to one's behavior and wrongdoings?

Yes it is, for toxic people. He is far too immature, far too toxic, far too full of ego and narcissism to ever believe he could have wronged me or done something bad.

If someone had said those words to me, I would have apologized. But then again, I'm an adult and can own up to my mistakes.

He clearly is not one.... he probably is a narcissist. They never own up.

I see it differently. He is a user and an abuser. So he waited to respond and responded negatively because he knows the OLD Eve would get upset and he could continue his drama with you. He wants to keep you engaged to feed his supply. Good for you for just tossing it. Trust me, he will be more upset and angry that you NEVER responded to his response than anything else. It will eat him up inside that he couldn't get a rise out of you.

Seesaw

You're right. I know this to be true based on my experience with toxic people.

Often THIS is the true closure a person needs to experience. It's being able to vent grievances, and coming to the realization that the other person is not actually capable of or mature enough of being able to LISTEN and CARE the way you needed, wanted, hoped for and tried to invest in creating in that other individual. Also, your closure is finally no longer allowing this other person to have the power over you that is TOXIC for you too. It IS important to see "your" part in how this dysfunctional relationship lasted as long as it did as well. Recently, in this thread you were triggered and talked about how you have a right to your "feelings". While triggers are difficult, often these triggers can become a sort of "revelation" about "self" that needs to surface too.

Also, golden_eye, this man that you invested so much time in did NOT want to feel his feelings so he turned to the alcohol and that became something he became addicted to, his go to instead of growing up. He probably had a few drinks before he emailed you back, that way he could be ok with not actually "feeling" and dumping the problem on you in some way.

You have been spending a lot of time growing and learning, asking questions about "how to feel when it comes to facing others that can be selfish". In that you have been "growing and gaining" in understanding toxic behaviors in others and what that means and how to see the red flags you need to identify so you don't end up in yet another toxic relationship. The closure you got with this experience isn't what you thought, yet, the delay of getting a response actually gave you time to sit and think about it and then you finally got to that point where you realize the response itself was not the closure, it's you finally realizing for yourself that YOU needed to be the one to say, "nope, there is nothing there in that email that will mean closure, instead I have found that in "myself" for a change.

TY -- you make a few great points.

In all abusive situations, I have had a strong need to stand up for myself. It has been for my own sense of self-respect that I have done so --- to fight back, to let them know that they have not gotten away with their poor behavior and treatment of me -- for the sake of justice, for my own sense of justice. To NOT let the abuser walk all over me -- to not be a doormat or a passive recipient of abuse.

Hence also why I sent that email. For justice, for closure, for my own self-respect, for inner peace, and for ME.

YES, the closure also involves not getting roped into or engaging any further in the negative, toxic communications.

You're prob correct in assuming he drank before emailing me back. Not an unfair assumption.

With regards to getting triggered, people on here trigger me often. Often I feel that I am being harshly judged, overly criticized, and quite frankly, treated poorly and not the way people should be treated on a mental health forum. I stand up for myself on here too, because there are toxic people everywhere, not excluding this forum. I have been severely abused in my life, as have been many on this forum.
People need to be far gentler and far more understanding in my personal viewpoint. I almost left this forum because I have been so frequently triggered.

Good job!!

I'm still working on that NC thing. Getting a lot further. But still working on it.

Thanks!

I will tell you -- NC does WONDERS for your mental health!!! I highly recommend it as the best course of action you could possibly take!!!

Now that being said, I also fully understand the need to get it all out there, all that you need to say!!! I did that myself. So I suppose it all depends on whether you have said what you need to in order to move on?

He is.a user. Users don’t apologize. If he felt bad he’d do something about it. Like pay you money back.

Good for you deleting it. There is nothing else to say to him

Yes, yes and YES! You are 100% correct!

And thank you. I feel very good about deleting it. It was the best decision I could have made.

I don't really have anything to say, the woman he cheated on me with (well, one of them, the one I confronted) has a wide-open FB account because she isn't very smart, and I have a habit of wandering over there sometimes. And no, it isn't wide-open because she wants me to see anything. She is just literally not very smart. Very polar opposite to his other supply sources. *shrug* Not much for me to see. She deleted him a couple of weeks ago. And now he's back. Typical J roller coaster. I think I'm starting to lose interest. It's like meh. Seems familiar. Have fun!

Losing interest is a good sign.

Golden Eve!

I'm so happy to read this 😊

I haven't been posting much recently, but I still read a lot, and wish everyone well.

Much love to you

Well, it's a waste of my time and energy. He's mentally ill, and not self-aware. I highly doubt he wants to be, and if he were, he doesn't want to go to therapy in the first place. And I've heard therapy can make his disorder worse, so. Everything for him is motivated by a need for attention, sympathy, or to look good. If he couldn't stop lying and cheating for women he professed to love, he wasn't going to do it for me. He's never going to not be this way.

I've made peace with the fact that nothing was real; everything was a lie, and pretty much everything out of his mouth is a lie. I was ego supply for him, and that is it. It's not my fault, it says nothing about who I am, it just is what it is. And he's no longer my problem to have to deal with. It must suck for him to have to deal with the tornado in his head every single day of his life, and the complete void where his heart should be. I understand that total, life-sucking loneliness that is an un-checked, cluster B personality disorder, especially since ours fit together like two ugly interlocking hands. I kind of feel sorry for him. Just not too sorry.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. Back to regular programming.

No worries -- these are really important statements and realizations for you on your own path of healing and recovery. You've made amazing progress -- and that is what this thread is about anyways -- saying goodbye to toxicity and toxic relationships.

You've pinpointed that he is not stable and has a personality disorder that makes him the way he is -- similar to my ex being mentally unhealthy (but also generally a low life to begin with). I came to the same realization about him as well and realized that it's not me, it's him. I was taking things far too personally -- thinking what did I do to deserve this kind of treatment??? I was nothing but good to him, too good in fact.

But alas, my ex is severely disturbed, and now I know that there was nothing I could have done & I am wiping my hands clean of the whole thing.

Here's to good progress.

I do still cry. But it's mostly me saying, "Why couldn't you have been the person I thought you were? Why couldn't you have been just bipolar like everyone thinks you are?" It's difficult mourning the death of a person who is very much alive.

There are some tiny indications that he has heard a therapist mention "NPD" to him before. And some tiny indications that he hates being how he is, which would be weird. Then again, I don't know. Don't care.

Yes - there's mourning that is necessary for healing. But then, there's the beauty of it ending -- you don't have to care anymore. Tra la la... skips away in delight!

Writing a letter is a good way to "list" one's grievances in what they experienced in a relationship that turned toxic for them. It allows a person to identify the interactions that brought them hurt and grief and anger and disappointments.

I have written a few letters myself, but I did not send them. I have sent angry texts or emails, but, the responses I received where always dismissive, critical, condescending and did nothing to validate the other person's behaviors towards me that were toxic, dysfunctional, and dismissive and even controlling and invalidating.

I thought to myself that in order to write a letter I "could" actually send, I have to be able to do it without expressing anger and blaming at the other person. I had gotten to a point where one day I felt I could write a letter without the "anger and blame" directed at the other person. I sat all day and wrote a rather long letter. I still did not send it, yet, it was an improvement where I was better able to identify toxic and dysfunctional situations where this other person's behaviors towards me were very unhealthy to the point where the behavior this other person displayed actually traumatized me. In this particular situation I happened to be visiting my mother when she experienced a stroke in front of me. I had never witnessed that before and it frightened me. I had gotten her to an ER and suddenly my older sister came through the doors and right away was "angry" and directed all her anger at me and even blamed me for causing my mother to have this stroke. She was so angry and mean towards me everyone in that ER waiting room was staring at us, it was so embarrassing. It was scary enough to witness my mother experiencing a stroke, but to have a presence come at me and attack me and blame me for making that happen, really traumatized me even more. That was about 9 years ago and my sister NEVER apologized for raging at me that day and blaming me for something I genuinely did not "make" happen. My sister has directed her anger and accusations at me several times since then and she can get bossy and mean and very controlling. I have to say that I can't even be around her without getting triggered badly so because she has moved both my parents in to live with her, I have not been able to visit them. Even trying to call them is met with my sister "lecturing me" and if I don't sit and listen to her lecture the right way she has actually yelled F you and hung up on me. So, even just being able to call and talk to my parents has gotten to a point where I don't do it because of having to deal with my sister and whatever her mood at the time happens to be.

Yes, I wrote a letter and did not send it, I doubt that I would EVER get a "healthy" response, unless of course my letter was focused on "her and validating her". I have noticed that is pretty much the only time she is genuinely receptive. I don't believe I will ever truly get the validation and closure I need from her. Instead, that will have to occur within "myself" and that's not "easy" depending on how toxic or dysfunctional another individual's behaviors are.

The "healing" and gaining has to take place in "you" golden_eye and finding your way to identify what was toxic about this other person and what you can learn from it for yourself, including the ways you engaged it only to be hurt and disappointed yet again. Truth is, a person can behave in toxic and dysfunctional ways that can most definitely be hurtful, often these individuals will refuse to take responsibility for these toxic behaviors as well no matter how many ways you try to communicate with them so they might recognize the things they do and say that are dysfunctional and hurtful. This is something that most definitely has to be "grieved" within self, especially when you wanted to love and be loved in a "healthy" way. And getting to a point where you can make some kind of inner peace with whatever it is can be quite the challenge too.