Goodbye to Toxic Relationships

I identify with this. I'll admit that I enabled my abuse for sure, and that's why I've struggled so hard with my own victim-blaming, because I'm not a stupid woman, I knew on some level exactly what he was doing, and I told him I wanted to be done many times. He was just really good at smoothing things over, and also at breaking me down to the point that I the self esteem I had going in (and I was at a weird place to begin with) was slowly whittled away. As garbage as the guy was, he is smart (it's one of the things which attracted me) and knows how to do his thing well.

I'm glad to see you're doing well, golden_eve! I wish it were as easy for me to find someone who treated me as well as your current boyfriend treats you. I don't think I'm at the point yet where I want to trust that there is someone out there. Also, it's not every day that men want to date me.

Abusers are VERY good at manipulation and at smoothing things over, especially when they know you're about to leave. I told my ex many times that we were "done". But I couldn't pull that trigger for a long time because he was SO good at saying exactly what I wanted to hear and also at talking me down when I was upset.

My boyfriend and I met through a social scene. I knew right away that he was a good guy, but I had the same mistrust and wariness. He was interested, but I said we had to be friends first. So he respected that and then I liked him.

((golden_eye)), you look for the good in others and you have a kind heart. When it comes to relationships, a lot of people genuinely struggle and a lot of this stems from the unhealthy relationship they witnessed happen with their parents as well as the lack of having their own needs met when they were children.

As a parent, the one thing I wanted for my own child was to help her develop her "own" identity. I really wanted her to feel loved and I also wanted her to feel she could talk to me about anything too. I had also made it a point to learn about child development instead of just doing what my own parents did with me. However, even when you make such an effort to do as much as you can to genuinely "love and nurture" your child, your child can STILL get hurt simply because they have been loved and nurtured and end up experiencing other children and human beings that don't have the same kind of love, respect, and nurturing. When I was raising my own child and also spent a lot of time around a lot of children in general, I saw a lot of things that really upset me in how my daughter's piers were raised and often "emotionally neglected".

When you meet someone and you are considering that person as possibly becoming "a life partner", you are meeting a person who has a whole history of experiencing all kinds of behaviors, including how their parents interacted around them that will also be "part of" the relationship you have with this person.

What have you learned from this? Truth is that what you ended up getting trapped in was being treated badly and then you got to hear things you were literally "starving" to hear. This is how "toxic" relationships typically run. YES, you were being manipulated, and in the past relationship you were dealing with an individual who had an addiction problem and you have learned how THAT COMES FIRST. Then you talked about meeting a guy that stood in front of a mirror for a very long time (admiring himself, all of himself) while you sat there "waiting" , well, what you were seeing in that experience was also "what came first" for that individual.

There are times when a person fails to see "red flags" simply because when they were growing up they were sent messages from their parents where the parent's needs came first and their needs and seeing them only happened "sometimes". Often, attention was given when the child did something that "pleased" and noticed the parent's needs and that became what that child grew to see as "normal". This is something that happens to a lot of "children" and because of that these children end up having a difficult time when it comes to relationships. You are really "not" the only person that stayed in a bad relationship much longer than you should have. At least you did not have a lot of baggage to deal with when you finally got to a point where you said ENOUGH.

TY, Open Eyes.

Yes, I learned to put my own needs aside due to a narcissistic father. I learned that a man's needs come first as a child. Obviously wrong, but that's how I grew up. I also learned to not take care of my own self by putting others' needs first all the time.

So who did I end up with? Narcissists, self-serving people, self-centered people and men who neglected my needs because that is what I was used to. Like the guy who stared at himself in the mirror admiring himself. That's who he loved the most -- HIM.

What I learned? Is that my needs are just as important as my partner's, and so is exercising self-care. That I count too, that my feelings & opinions matter, and that I should have an equal partnership, not a one-sided partnership. I always gave and gave with not much in return. Yes, I have a kind heart and see the best in everyone, to a fault. I was not discriminating enough. I didn't give enough importance to ME. With my ex who is an alcoholic, I did this. It was all about HIM -- always. I gave and gave in that relationship and got squeezed dry. Then he walked away owing me a LOT of money, leaving me bitter for having given SO much of myself....

Now I see this. Thank God my current boyfriend is the exact opposite from my ex. And you're right - thank you for pointing it out - at least I didn't stay in that relationship for years on end. I did have a hard time leaving it, but I do that until I see it all in plain black and white writing that says "GET OUT!". I gave it chance after chance until there were no chances left. No options left but to walk away.

Thank you again for your kind words and your nice post. I really appreciate it!

You are finally recognizing how you were "unknowingly" groomed by your father to give up your own needs to please him and you probably were starved for healthy attention. Remember, a child literally has no idea what a narcissist is, or what is toxic and what isn't. A child just wants to be loved and "seen" and if the parent is narcissistic that child learns that love is conditional and all about "pleasing" dear old dad.

Narcissistic parents don't "know" they are narcissistic. These self absorbed parents genuinely don't realize they are neglecting their children either. I met a mother who wrote a "self help" book and she was getting ready to do a big tour but did not know how the time that would take away from her young daughter would affect this child. I was going to work at a party she had for her daughter and she asked me to observe her daughter and let her know what I thought. Well, this child did nothing but literally hang onto her mother's clothes the entire time, would not leave her mother, not even to enjoy what I had that children are typically very attracted to and drawn to.

Children who are neglected can develop some deep life long challenges. Some turn to drugs, and some create their own "illusions of grandeur" that is eventually diagnosed as NPD while others struggle with low self esteem not really knowing where that came from too.

YES. Precisely! I also learned unhealthy habits where I didn't learn how to really care for myself and protect myself. I was so naive about men and people in general. And yes, I used to always worry in relationships about pleasing the other person. That was my biggest concern -- THEIR happiness, not mine.

Thank you for helping me with this. I see it plain as day now. WOW. It took most of my adult life and many toxic relationships to finally come to this point.

Yes, I believe you yet this happens to a lot of people.

How did your father treat your mother?

You're so fortunate to have found such a man. My mantra comes from a c and w song that says 'if it don't come easy you got to let it go'. Good words to live by.

First, I am happy for you. Second, would it be off topic to state some of those red flags in relationships, so people can has some information? Perhaps we can open a new topic for this?

While growing up, my father was a bit hard on my mother. He would chastise her, put her down, correct her and criticize her. I ended up with similar men.

TY!

Well, the red flags I ignored most recently are that my ex stole something for me on our first visit, got drunk and fought with me. Another red flag: he kept saying he would get a job ASAP early on to pay me back for our trips together, but he never did. He kept dragging his heels. I should have known and seen then that he had ZERO motivation. I also experienced false accusations early on and turning of the tables (blaming and accusing me when he was at fault for something). He also asked me to do illegal things for him. He has no morals.

Other relationships? Oh lordy. Too much to write on that, and yes, maybe better for a different thread, but I am open to discussing it here.

The last guy I dated stared at himself in the mirror FAR too much -- indicative of probably a narcissist.

Another one lied in the beginning and was still living with his fiance when we started dating (I didn't know this right away). He was lining up the next one while still in a relationship! He ended up being a liar, a cheater and very abusive towards me. That was a toxic relationship.

And another was sexually aggressive with me..... he ended up being abusive too.

So many.... too many really!

TY!

So my ex has not written me back.. yes, I have checked my filtered email several times to see if he has. I couldn't help it.

But now I am recalling my therapist's previous words to me about this: she said, you wouldn't actually drink poison would you???? And that's what this is. His words are pure poison. HE is pure poison. So anything he has to say in reply (and I am sure it will be mean, very hurtful and harsh), will be poisonous & hazardous to my very being and soul.

I keep thinking this every time I check email now. And every time I do check, I brace myself.

Now I am convinced I have to delete it ASAP and not read a single word that he has to say.

I see my therapist tomorrow eve and will talk about this final email I sent. She will most likely repeat the same advice about drinking poison.

And the other thing is, I am so happy now that I don't want anything interfering with it. Words from my ex could bring me down and backwards. I know myself too well and I would take it all to heart. We've discussed that one here, and I will bring that up to my therapist, too... about not believing others' mean and false words. But still, it is for my own mental health that I must DELETE his response.

I have found that men do not sit and percolate about an email response. They either write back right away or they don’t ever write back. That’s how I surmised your ex would not ever write back. Rarely you will get a man who ponders something and writes you later on, but in your break up case, I didn’t think it would happen. He was not classy enough to apologize and he certainly did not want to discuss his bad behavior.

YEP, you nailed it. He is not classy enough, certainly not mature enough and cannot help himself BUT be mean.

Thing is, having lived with him, I know how little he checks his email. So it's very possible that he hasn't seen it yet. I made sure to send it to all email addresses I had for him (three). He was even having trouble accessing a couple of his accounts when we were together.

He COULD respond. Knowing him and how emotionally reactive he is, he will want to tell me off and put me in my place somehow so he can feel he has the upper hand.

But as others on here have pointed out, we don't need to allow someone to abuse us. So in this instance, IF I read his response, then I am allowing him to further abuse me. That is also how I need to view this.

But you're right -- he may not even respond. I have NO idea.

I didn't mean in your relationships only, I was speaking generally, from the experience from all of us, signs that warn us to leave and we don't even pay attention while being in a relationship. Signs that tell us to say "goodbye to toxic relationships" as your topic says.

OH! LOL. Gotcha.

Well, here's an article that I wrote that outlines healthy vs. unhealthy relationships, which may help:

https://happinessblog.net/unhealthy-relationships/

And here's another article, 51 signs of an unhealthy/toxic relationship:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...y-relationship

And here's one more: warning signs of a toxic person:
https://facthacker.com/18-signs-of-toxic-people/

Ok, then what you have to sit with and take into consideration is what that relationship meant to you as a child both psychologically and emotionally. Little girls "want" love and approval from their daddy and when they don't see their mother get that, it can confuse them about love, and boundaries and respect. Also, what that child in you "learned" without realizing it is the things your mother did to handle your father's behaviors towards her. You also watched her "accept" his behaviors and she probably was on the passive side too. Your mother probably "took care of" your father and you learned from her "acceptance" and "patience" despite these times when he criticized her and talked down to her. You also developed certain "loves" for when your father was kind and charming. My guess was you got used to seeing how the world in your family revolved around your father and his opinions and needs.

This can all lead to how a child can be naive about what is acceptable and what is wrong on a subconscious level. Also, this can affect the child's self esteem which is something a child feels not really knowing what that is. You have talked about the "red flags" you did not see, or possibly overlooked where you hung on to the relationship much longer than you should have, also I remember how you wanted to believe your ex was good, going to change, going to somehow appreciate you more. These are all things you "unknowingly" learned without actually realizing it, after all, your mother is still with your father right, she showed you how to excuse the bad and think about the crumbs of love and approval your father bestowed upon her (and that child in you too). A lot of times what a child also sees is how a father will take out his frustrations and anger on the mother. Often a father will only be motivated to spend money on things HE wants, not what the mother wants that will make her happy. This is something a child witnessing can take in where that child "feels" their needs are only important when the authority figure in the home (ends up being the work place challenge too) decides their needs, opinions, and contribution is "worthy".

These "feelings and fears" are behind what you "fear" when it comes to standing up for yourself with that letter and anticipating how a response can be "hurtful" and leaving you with feeling the "emotional sting" from a toxic response. This is something that has been subconsciously instilled in you long before you had any choice or understanding of what behaviors are acceptable and what behaviors are not. Even when a child doesn't know the difference, that child can "feel" it.

When you talk about "closure" golden_eye, a big part of that has to take place in "you". The person who needs to step back, look at what has been and is "toxic" about a relationship the most is "you". The truth is that even when you write a letter that reflects what you have learned and how badly you have been treated, when the other person behaves in "toxic" ways, the response you will get will lack as did the relationship itself. The TRUTH is you gave this man love and you tried to help him and you had a good heart and you WANTED to trust him and at times he said nice things to you. However, no matter how much you tried, you cannot give him something he doesn't have and needs to find for himself "self respect". That man stopped growing and maturing when he began using alcohol and drugs and ran from his problems. His problems began long before "you" entered his life. Sit and allow yourself to genuinely "think" about how that man survived. How can you give that man control over "your" feelings?

You know what the best thing about that letter is that you ended up writing?
It's an essay about what you have learned about that relationship that was so unhealthy for you and actually "hurt" you. I have noticed how much you have been trying to LEARN golden_eye. You have had to LEARN what "toxic" really is, and as you have been doing that the child part of you that tended to accept certain toxic interactions that you grew up witnessing and "feeling" is finally learning to see the things that were "unhealthy and wrong". The naive is in your heart and that developed long before you had ANY idea what that was, but you felt it. Also, because of what you grew up witnessing you also imprinted some "unhealthy" things that you unknowingly grew to accept and thrive with. That is why you have attracted individuals who tend to be on the narcissistic unhealthy side. It's also why you "stress" when you encounter individuals who insist on doing things "their" way even when you try to tell them that what they are choosing to do is wrong. That "stress" is learned, and was learned in your childhood.

I have been discovering these challenges in myself as well golden_eye. I loved my father, but, he was often selfish and self absorbed and when it came to my mother the only things he gave her were things HE wanted or approved of himself. My father also was a binge alcoholic and the behavior patterns he exhibited with that were behaviors I had "thought" were normal.
There were things I looked for in a man that were not things my father did that I did not like, but I missed a lot of red flags and ended up marrying a man a lot like my father. Unfortunately, a lot of people make that mistake.

You have been learning and you know what? We actually do learn our entire lives. Relationships are very challenging because there are a lot of things we learn as children to accept simply because when we are children we don't have any idea what is healthy and right and what isn't.

Naive is present in everyone and often people "judge" based on what they know, and that can mean they are often making "wrong" judgments. So, given that statement, this letter you sent to this ex? What does he actually "know"? He knows how to escape and say things that tend to work where he gets to continue his "escape" from "himself and learning and growing and becoming more functional".

Open Eyes, your username certainly suits you!! You said this better than my own therapist could have!

THANK YOU so much for such a thoughtful, well written explanation and post! I fully appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed and heartfelt analysis.

I will need to further absorb all that you have written and probably need to read it several times for it to fully sink in. But I believe that you are 100% accurate in your assessment.

Another thing -- my father exhibited poor boundaries with us as kids. I learned that unacceptable behaviors were in fact acceptable and OK. As you said, my mother passively accepted my father's treatment towards her and towards us. So I learned that self-centered and denigrating behavior should be overlooked, like you stated.

Funny thing is, the moment I decided enough is enough and that I wanted to move past toxic relationships and stop ignoring red flags is exactly the moment when a non-toxic person walked into my life. I find that to be very odd or oddly coincidental. It's as though the shift in my own thinking and approach to dating allowed me to finally meet someone who is far healthier for me. VERY WEIRD.

Anyways, thank you again. You have opened my own eyes, which is partly why your name is so appropriate!!!

It's not weird, you have decided to establish better boundaries and you are more open to experiencing a healthier relationship. You can still be fooled so you still have to be careful, nothing wrong with being "careful" and making sure to pay attention.

Thank you.

Yes, I will still be careful. As my therapist says, you are still driving the car and looking under the hood before you decide to buy it!

I’m very happy for you Eve! You made a huge leap in self love when you realized that you deserved better than a toxic relationship.

TY! YES, I have made a huge leap!! It feels good!

Speaking about toxicity and red flags, when you are dusscussing with your partner and say what you like and what you don't like and all suddently out of nowhere he starts saying what his mother likes, while you are speaking about you two he brings his mother into his thought and into the discussion, isn't it a red flag?

Personally, I am not sure if that's a red flag, but it could be a yellow flag? He could have mother issues.