[LMo]

I don't want to hijack Rhapsody's thread, but a few of us feel strongly that non-selfish men need to be represented. I'd like to start a thread where we can appreciate men in our lives. I'll begin...

(thinking... thinking... drawing a blank... thinking... -- hahahaha!)

Ok, well let's start with my husband. He has his selfish moments, sure, but then again so do I. He takes very good care of me emotionally and I never doubt where my place is in his heart. I have complete confidence that he'll put our child first, which makes me really happy. I have never once heard him say anything bad about another person - he cares greatly about people's feelings.

My ex-husband, despite dumping me like a hot potato at the end, also was very unselfish. He would go to the ends of the earth for the people he cared about, and always found something good about any person he encountered, no matter how annoying I found them to be.

I also know that my brother would throw himself in front of a speeding train for me.

And it should not go unmentioned that most of the men on this board are truly life-savers. There aren't many men who participate at PC, but those who do are quite generous, thoughtful, considerate, and compassionate.

I guess I am not a person who likes to compare genders, races, ethnic groups, etc. I am a woman who works in a man's world, but I have never once felt discriminated against or limited by my gender -- it has truly been a non-issue. 99% of the men I know have given me their full respect and I know that I hold credibility with them. Just thinking about my current project, I know that I am one of the team and that I can count on the men on my team to back me up and help me if I need it.

I'm sad for the women in the world who have had bad experiences with the selfish men out there. I believe you, and I do know that selfish and cruel men do exist, as do selfish and cruel women. My heart goes out to any human, female or male, who has been badly hurt by someone of the other gender and subsequently fears or resents that gender.

But in general, hooray for men... I think most of them are terrific, and the world would be an unbalanced place without them.

[Peacemaker]

LMo,

it is nice that you started this thread because, like you, i am truly blessed with a great husband. actually, we've known each other since 5th grade and grew up in the same neighborhood and played together. we did kinda go our own ways until our junior year in high school and began to run around together with another good friend. finally, we both wanted to move out of our parent's house. He travelled all the time and wanted a roommate to watch over his stuff, i worked full time and went to college p/t and need a roommate to help with rent as i didn't make enough $$$ to go alone. so, we rented a small house together sept. 1 of '89. amazingly, by november, i knew that i a man i totally loved and wanted to marry. had to keep that a secret for months until the other friend tore it out of me (in May '90). I was thrilled when he said that he felt the same way. we agreed to take it slow and not change anything. oct. 5, 1991, we were married. oddly enough, it wasn't until after we married before we went on dates. LOL

given all of the poor choices i had made previously, i was blessed with the good sense in marrying him. he has never called me names, manhandled me, or turned his back on me. the last 10 years, i have had a lot of mental and physical issues that forced him to be the sole caregiver of our son for 3 years because i was too depressed to do so. i had fibromyalgia for 4 years so severely that i could work but then have to lie down when home. he became caregiver again and had total responsibility for the household, cleaning, making meals, and yard work. we had a few years where i was able to help out (the fibro went away) then became sick and went through 8 surgeries over a few years which started the cycle again. where other men would have thrown in the towel, he stood beside me, supporting me and even left work to take me to appointments out of fear that i would not be able to drive safely.

i have always appreciated him. i cherish him even more so now after having read so many posts and talking to less fortunate women in chat. i'll never take him for granted.

i really pray for all the women (and men) on here who are hurt by their boyfriends or husbands on so many hideous ways. i wish that i could reach out and "save" them all. everyone deserves unconditional love where they feel safe, secure, and supported.

Blessings to all who live with indifference, abuse, and controlling, selfish, hateful, self serving men.

[bebop]

I too have a wonderful man in my life. yes I have experienced very selfish men in my life but also women. I can't even begin to name the goodness of my husband other than he has stuck with me thru this whole injury mess and me with no income and to me that is saying alot since I was the main bread winner in our home for quite a few years.

[sunrise]

My husband is very selfish and we are getting a divorce, but I can't even say his selfishness is the main reason. There's a lot of negative stuff in our relationship and it has not worked for years. But despite this, I still have faith in men! I don't think that they are all like my husband, and the truth is, maybe my husband would do just fine with some other woman. (I wish her well!) I think there are a lot of nice guys out there. My therapist says I "chose" my husband because his behavior patterns are similar to those of significant people in my childhood and this was my psyche's attempt to at last work out those early dysfunctional relationships. It took 20 years, but I am finally working it out. Slow learner....

[Sabrina]

My husband is very good to me on a practical level. I certainly can't complain there. Sometimes I do feel that he is emotionally selfish. By that, I mean that he rarely talks to me about his feelings. He also tends to say "end of discussion" whether the problem has been dealt with or not - that hurts. But ok, that isn't because he is a man - it is just him!

I am truly grateful for my husband even though he sometimes only has his own interests at heart.

I feel that women can have as many "selfish" moments as men. I agree with what LMo said about comparing genders. Sometimes I know I give as good as I get .........

[AAAAA]

I think that anyone can be selfish from time to time, I do not think it is gender specific.

[salukigirl]

if it is gender specific its not their fault.

how do we expect them to act when their whole lives are spent being told that they take what they want, they have to be big and strong, they shouldnt care about people. they are basically brought up to be manly men and manly men are selfish. guys are brought up to not show emotions and then are totally baffled when thats what women want from them. they really are not raised to deal with relationships. They still think that all we want is a bread winner.

If women were raised in the same way Im sure it would be flipped. But women are mostly raise to think about other people, specifically their fathers and husbands. and were also brought up to be nurturing, not selfish. so its kinda nature versus nurture.

plus women can be selfish also but its disguised. we find different justifications for it so it never looks like selfishness.

thank you womens studies 201 lol

[Cyran0]

Thank you for this thread. I just left Rhapsody's thread and was really upset. I know she's just venting but it felt hurtful. I certainly would never talk about any group of people like that.

Maybe it's because I'm a story teller, maybe it's because of therapy, but my wife would say I probably share a little too much. I spend a lot of time analyzing my emotions and have become quite good at articulating them. I've also learned how to say, I don't understand what I'm feeling. Because sometimes, I don't. Remember, I'm crazy.

If we want a better world with more decent men, we must as a culture focus on teaching the skills needed for emotional intelligence. I would imagine that in some instances, selfish people simply lack the capacity for empathy.

So thanks again for giving props to those of us who try.

Cyran0

Being the only Man to respond to this thread so far, I would like to say that a certain females thread, that is not dissimilar to this one, only of the men hating kind, is proof enough that there are female equivalents to what she sees in men in general, bigoted ignorance is all I see when I read the thread

[seeker1950]

The other thread of which you speak, Mellors, has some fairly balanced responses. I doubt you read it!
Patty

[LMo]

Mellors, I think that Cyrano is a man...

Look, I started this thread because I wanted it to be dissimilar to the other one. If you don't appreciate the attempt that's fine, but no need to throw it back in the faces for those who don't feel hatred toward men.

I know you're upset and rightfully so, but please remember that some of us (myself included) like you and are your friends, ok?

[LMo]

actually, nevermind - I think I misinterpreted what you wrote, possibly influenced by your mad face in your mood on the left.

we're cool, I think

Sorry cyrano was typing and did not see your post, my bad sorry.

I read all six pages before I posted here seeker, I choose then to post in here first

LMO I was not criticising you or your thread, I was comparing Rhapsody’s thread to yours to try show an equal balance, what’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[LMo]

who you callin' a goose? ;p

[salukigirl]

how was what i said bigoted ignorance? i was defending men. did you even read what i said?

cyran0 got it right - we need to face it as a culture and not tell men that they cant cry, they cant be emotional, they cant be close to their kids - those are all things we, as a society, tell them.

Society has some jacked up ideals though - take, for instance, the family. most people see a wife, father, 2 kids and a family pet. but how many people actually came from that background? and in the past it was the same. people have never, normally, come from that. but thats what society sees as the family.

and im trying to change my view on men but its so hard when all i hear all day is judging women, calling them too fat or too ugly. You realize how hard it is to feel good about yourself when men idolize women who are fake and photoshopped? and how hard it is to see good men out there when that's what youre surrounded by?

so please dont label me as ignorant when you obviously didnt read what i said. I was trying to help you out from a woman's perspective.

[Perna]

Saluki, no one referrred to you or your words specifically; they're still discussing the other thread and people's opinions there.

It's not easy but possible to feel good about yourself and women by realizing that the people around you are individuals, not a "group". There is no such thing as "men" other than in a statistical average sort of useless construct. "All men" is a meaningless term just like the way marketers try to make a joint feeling of pain/hunger/sorrow, etc. Thousands of hungry children are no more hungry than one child. You can't get "more" of something by lumping individuals together unless you're doing group/mob behavior and there you don't have individuals.

It's our individual thinking that gets skewed; deciding that "men" (or "women") are a certain way limits us, not any individual men. We become blind to individuals by allowing ourselves to look at the world that way. Someone using derrogatory terms about me or acting poorly toward me just quickly confirms for me that they do not know me and tells me valuable information about them!

You should reread my post in here before jumping down my throat, you will see that i was refering to rhapsodys male bashing thread when i said what i said, not your post, which i clarified 3 posts up if You had cared to read it before posting this longwinded, uncalled for rant directed at me personally

Ps i changed the name back to the original threads name

[Raynaadi]

LMo you rock!!! I was thinking about starting something about the good men as well.

(I haven't read anything but the positives here)

I just wanted to talk about the wonderful man I have found. Sure I've been through my not so great ones but that was when I was a lot younger.

I'm 28 and my boyfriend is 40. It just happened that we were attracted to each other, not knowing each others' ages. I was shocked when I found out!! He was 39 when we started dating. I have to say that it is such a blessing to find one who's mature, who's been through the young and shall we say "thinking with the other brain" part of his life lol!!!

He is so caring and warm and puts me first. Sure, he's selfish sometimes but so am I. We went through a rough patch where I felt like I was playing third fiddle to his job and is sports. I thought I'd have to leave the relationship. What I tried instead was talking to him.

How simple.....yet so hard. I didn't want to sound like a nag. I wanted to be the "cool girlfriend" who has no problems, but that wasn't working, and it wasn't fair to him because I was developing all these issues but keeping them to myself so he had no way of knowing how unhappy I was.

It came to a head and I almost left him. But I told him how I was feeling, about how we ALWAYS watched sports.....and he was like "but I thought you enjoyed it??" Well....that was my bad. I tried to watch it all the time because he likes it and his job is stressful etc. But doing nothing but watching sports was driving me nuts lol. So after I tell him all this stuff he's like "I love you. You are the most important person in my life and I'm not gonna loose you. We don't have to watch sports all the time, I just thought you enjoyed it."

How simple. I tell him my needs and he says ok. And now I actually offer to put on the game when he's at my place. He's been a bit shocked, constantly asking me if I'm sure. But it comes down to feeling like I have a choice in the matter, not having it shoved down my throat. And at my place I can jump on the computer or crochet if I get bored with the game.

This a very simple issue (we've got others but thats for another forum lol). All it took was a little comprimise. The fact that he's willing to comprimise is another way that he shows me how much he loves me. He may appear selfish, but generally thats what I see if I don't speak up.

He's not the only good man I know. I know so many good men now that I'm getting a little older. Most of my guy friends are in their late 20's and up and they have finally settled down a bit and I love them all!!!

Men rock!!!!!!!

[sunrise]

I don't like even going to that other thread because it's so judgmental and harsh. It seems to treat men as a uniform group instead of individuals. I stopped reading it after the first page or so. I thought this thread would be more positive, but here people are also discussing that negative thread! I wish discussion of that thread could stay in that thread, and the discussion here could stay on topic.

To keep discussion here on track with the topic, I'd like to share a very positive interaction I had last night with a guy I don't even know. My youngest daughter is having a very hard time right now, as my husband and I have just separated. She is very smart, but is failing in several classes in school. Last night her social studies teacher, a guy, called me at home to discuss my daughter. He said he just wanted to let me know that he really enjoys having her in class, she is doing great work, and she brings something really positive to the class. She is delightful to have as a student, and he is so glad she is in his class. That was totally unnecessary for him to call me up to say those wonderful things. It is not part of his job description. I almost started crying on the phone, he was so nice, and getting some reassurance about my daughter was such a relief. It has really been stressful lately, and both my husband and I are doing our best to look out for our kids during this really difficult time. This teacher really reached out to me and helped (he knows the family is going through divorce). He is the antithesis of selfish.

[salukigirl]

mellors, you reposted that as i was typing so thats why i couldnt read it and its not unnecessary, i was defending myself. and sorry, when it says re:salukigirl i assume its directed at me.

my cat has been throwing up hairballs so i didnt have time to go through and read each individual post - i have been using up all the resolve lol

i thought that once i graduate high school it would all change. then i thought, well maybe freshmen in college havent gotten past it yet, then sophomore, then juniors etc... im not blaming men for what they do or how they act but there is no denying the domestic violence facts or the fact that every day no less than 3 women die from domestic violence from their partner.

im not blaming men for it, im saying we need to change their situations from the get go. my ex boyfriend was very abusive in all aspects but his father had abused him and his mother left him when he was young. so i dont blame him, i have compassion for him. (took a few years for me to get that but i did).

what really sucks is that the people that understand that its not a man's fault why he is the way he is, figure that they cant do anything about it.

so in no way was i trying to bash men. i was actually doing the opposite. and sorry, once again, that i didnt see your posts because it took so long for me to re-post while chasing my cat around hearing hacking all morning.

[LMo]

These are nice stories, ladies, thanks! You all sound blessed with decent men in your lives. Thanks also for keeping it on track.

I also want to mention my stepbrother. He spends every bit of his free time helping people, mostly elderly or youth, at his church. He is very handy and is always there to help them (or me!) replace a window, fix a leaky faucet, paint, you name it. He is truly a generous and selfless man, and I love and respect him with all of my heart.

[salukigirl]

sounds like my step-brother. after he graduated with his masters he joined the peace corps. he lives in honduras and el salvador for about 2.5 years for around $80 a month with no floor in his house, no stove, no fridge - nothing. but he did it to help the kids in the area, give them food, teach them etc.... he is now camping in alaska. talk about a free spirit lol

my brother also came up with the idea of fasting on thanksgiving and volunteering at a soup kitchen. to try and feel what these homless people feel everyday.

my boyfriend also goes with me sometimes to volunteer at the humane society. he used to hate cats. now he says he cant hold them because he will want to take them home lol

[Raynaadi]

Wow your step-brothers sound like awesome guys!!!!!

[LMo]

I didn't even think about volunteers! For crying out loud, I manage a nonprofit - you'd think that my volunteers would be the first people I would have thought of! Doh! Some leader I am....

So, we have a board of directors (unpaid, of course) of 9 people; 6 of them are tirelessly dedicated men. And we have a volunteer base of about 35 people; about 1/2 of them are men. It is a lot of work dealing with a nonprofit in addition to my full-time job, but their dedication and generosity is truly an inspiration to me to remain in service to my community.

[heyjoe]

Perna it was very heartwarming to see that your thinking has taken a 180 degree turn from your less than flattering post in the other thread about men.