The dating world makes me want to roll in glass

Oh I am sorry Night Whistle. I assumed you were a woman. I don't know why. It makes sense that the gay community has its own set of rules. All groups are different. I am a straight woman and based on what you and gay friends have shared, I'm sorry that I don't have too much to offer.

Just one thing to add, I had a male gay friend who told me that he was offended when he went out with men and they assumed that he wanted to have **** sex right away. I don't know if that helps you at all. Just wanted to share some truth.

There must be some other men on PC who can help. If in doubt, head over to the sex forum. Good luck

No you're right, some of us give out our "love" more freely than others. I'm also not very clear with them about what I want. I don't go in saying "I'm looking for a longterm relationship" because 1) that's gonna scare them off and 2) I also don't know if that's what I want with this particular guy. I think a relationship should develop organically over time.

Your post has the best title.

I wonder if the dating app culture is more about hookups than long term relationships at this point. It's possible that other people out there looking for long term relationships are not using those dating tools because they just got burnt out, the same way you're feeling. I wonder if something like Meetup would be a better way to meet people? Or what if you *did* say that you are dating in order to find a long term relationship to weed out people who only want a hookup? You'd only be scaring off people who don't have the same long term goals.

Honestly I've been single a year. I'm a professional in the medical field and have many single male friends on dating apps. I found found a nice single woman (RN) and started her about 10 months ago.
We had sex after 6 weeks of dating, but that's about as long as I was willing to wait on her. Things are going very well now for us. I would not spend ten mins on a dating app.

Your gender makes no difference to my advice. If you are looking for a meaningful, long-term relationship, and sleeping with them too soon leave you with not getting a phone call again, then hold out until there is more than sex.

Hey TheNightWhistle,

My advice about postponing sex still stands. There's a great article in GQ online about your conundrum, "Not Every Gay Man Is DTF." Because it's true, isn't it? You're battling with perceived stereotypes about gay men, in addition to the social pressures and expectations of being a gay man -- to have sex casually with every guy you meet.

Go against the grain and just date without sex on the table. Sure, that will totally feel awkward and even uncomfortable for you. BUT, the upside is, it takes the pressure and expectations OFF you to just enjoy the other guy's company. And if he runs away b/c you won't get DTF within minutes of meeting each other, well, wave goodbye to the guy.

Classy guys -- even the gay ones -- have standards and will wait for the right guy.

So, relax, don't do it, when you wanna go to it. When you want to ----, as our friend . Don't listen to me. Listen to Frankie!

If it is the common custom for sex on the first date, it makes it harder for you to stand up for your values. But you are not a piece of meat! Who made the rules that you are obligated to have sex because someone takes you out for a lamb chop? Someone who also wants a meaningful relationship will find your values refreshing.

All I know is I have heard WAY too many real life horror stories about online dating. It would not be for me.

@Have Hope...I sure YOU are a very nice person. But, dating sites are rife with those who are not. I could tell stories about it by seeing others and their fiascoes.

I would hesitate to over simplify and say that if someone uses a dating app that there is something wrong with them. There is quite a broad variety of dating apps and with it being online a variety of types of people that use them. Some of them are pretty much for hooking up with others and others are more tailored to finding lifelong relationships.

I will agree that in many cases its not ideal as the sole method for finding dates and agree with some of the points you make about being able to sell anything online. While that's true, one needs to be careful with how they approach people and take security very seriously, not believing everyone is what they say they are, but those things considered, I think it can help people to find the right person, just not, in every case.

@TheNightWhistle: you said that the guys that you get intimate too soon "hit it and quit it" and those that you don't let that happen get bored and leave anyway. Seems to me that it's the quality of men you are meeting. Likely the ones that didn't 'get it" from you and left would have been in the same category as the first that would just be gone afterword anyway. Find better men, and take your time actually getting to know them first. Sex will never be a good basis for a lasting relationship.

Here are two examples of people close tome who have been the liars. A female friend told men that she was "voluptuous in a Kate Winslet" sort of way. The woman weighs 300 lbs. I asked her outright if it bothered her that she was going to look like a fool when or if she met anyone. I have nothing against overweight people and never have, I am currently overweight myself and have battled the spare tire all my life. I have dated fat guys. It's no big deal. But don't lie about it. Sure enough... it didn't not workout for her. Now for our ex-room mate. After his 2nd divorce, which left him penniless for a long time, he decided that he was going to, ummmm.....make up for lost time, so to speak. Now this is a close friend of ours. A GOOD one. but here goes. He went on a "lie journey" of epic proportions. He would have several women going at the same time...citing work as the reason why he could not be with them at certain times. What blew it was when one certain woman found out where he was living and came to my house and started questioning ME about who I was. Long story short, THAT did NOT go over well, I am extremely territorial and when you are on my turf, you don't come demanding anything from me. Mind you I had NO idea he was doing this at the time. He had one girl he was officially seeing, and she had been a co-worker of ours years before. She was very busy with her grandchild so she did not want a 24/7 relationship. Understandable. So, his little BS fest caused trouble for people not even involved. Lots of people got hurt. But this is not an isolated incident. One of my girlhood friends met a guy online years ago and went out to see him at his request. He was all excited about seeing her, blah, blah,blah. Well, she flew to see him and when she got there he acted like he did not even know her. His room mates had to take her back to the airport, etc. So, that is my stance on it.

I am sorry in that I did not know you were a gay male. However, I suppose that the same may ring true for gay males as well. Perhaps you might try not having sex right away with other males and let them know that you want to see how you get along first before you just begin getting physical with them.

I think that this comes down to a deeper issue I have. I think that I'm worried that if I don't put out, then I won't be interesting enough for the guy to keep around. I don't think I'm charming, funny or cool enough to fall in love with, so I just have sex as a way to make sure that they have a good time with me. Maybe I need to learn how to love myself before somebody else can love me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusax Ok. I am going to give my honest opinion here. I KNOW that you of the younger generation basically live online, and I realize that perhaps online dating is a quicker way to meet people, and also it broadens your "field" a bit. However... I grew up with no such things. We all did. We all met people and dated. You dated people you knew or met through people who knew them, and could tell you about them, at least basically. Online, you can basically be anyone, and sell anyone on anything. I know a guy around here who brags online to be a big cowboy, that has used a Youtube video, saying that it is HIM riding a bull. My attitude about online dating is, if you have to use it, there is something wrong with you. You have exhausted your opportunities locally and need to reach for those who don't know you or know anything about you. Just my opinion.

I feel like this is really unkind. Technology is here-like it or not. The world has changed. I too met my husband the old fashioned way and it was love at first sight and we are married 23 years. If I hadnt met him and was still single I guarantee I would have used online dating. It may not be perfect and sure people can lie but so can people in real life. (ever seen Dirty John?) I think it can be a way to cut through some of the pick-up BS at bars- and for someone like me who cant drink- I wouldnt be at a bar anyway. Some people do not want to complicate their work lives by dating coworkers which is understandable. My mom met someone who was very much in love with her through eharmony. It didnt work out because she just wasnt feeling it but it worked while it did. I think that its natural for humans to want the love and comfort of another human and if online dating helps mitigate that then its a good thing. The other thing I thought of.... I am not gay and not an expert but nearly all of my gay friends have met their partners with online dating. They all tried the conventional way with bars and hobbies but they couldnt seem to find the right person. With online dating they have told me that they were able to find people that had common goals. In fact my BFF is getting married to his partner in July and he thought he would be single forever.

You are right that online dating isnt for everyone but its really really unkind to say that something is wrong with someone because they use it.

EDITED TO ADD: I wanted to say that there is also nothing wrong with doing the real life meet-ups. I am 44 and met my husband that way. I do not think there is a right or wrong way about meeting people and its very much influenced by your experiences. I do not know if my mom (who is 66) will use online dating again because she was a bit hurt after the last guy and like Blanche said it was the worst 5 years of her life and I just want to validate that. My main issue was saying that there was something wrong with a person for using online dating.

Now you’ve touched on two different issues. The first is putting out too soon. The second is self doubt. You do want someone in your life who loves you and who you love and have every right to that.

Maybe it will help to take inventory of your self. Make a list of all the qualities you have and of all the qualities you want in a mate.

It's good that you recognize these two issues you have with your self esteem.

While it's easy to advise you to "just be yourself," if you don't like who you are, that can be difficult to do. I've been there, where I didn't value myself enough and had terrible relationship and dating experiences, because the guys I was with sensed I didn't have high self esteem so they really treated me badly.

The first thing you need to decide is, how are you going to address these insecurities that you have about yourself? You may not need therapy as much as you need to decide what is it that you can do, to become more comfortable with yourself, more accepting of yourself?

The more comfortable we are with ourselves, the quicker people pick up on that and are attracted to it. Of course you have the predatory people who look for people with low self esteem, poor boundaries who don't set limits with other people, and take advantage of them.

It's like I said. You're letting yourself be the gay stereotype with your casual sex relationships. Don't be a stereotype. Don't fall prey to the social pressure to go out and get DTF with every guy you meet.

@sarahsweets....Of course, not EVERYONE online is undesirable. But it DOES make it much easier for people on whatever mission they are on, to scam on people one way or the other.

I feel like these guys are so successful, beautiful and disciplined and I just don't feel like I can compete.

I just don't think I'm at the same level as they are. They have these cool jobs, live in these chic downtown apartments, have greek-god bodies, bikeride to work everyday, and live these amazing lives, and I don't feel like I measure up. I obviously get that they worked hard for these things, and that's what I'm trying to do now. I work out as often as I can, I'm studying hard to get my degree, and do as many hours as possible at work, all to try and get to that level. For the time being though, I don't think i'm ready to join the race. Having someone to run alongside me in that race would be a dream come true, but it seems like everybody is already ahead.

Ahhh flashbacks... triggered

I feel like at one time online dating had reasonable people on it. I know a few people who met husbands on there - like 1997 - But I feel like at some point people figured out all the potential for abuse and online is now used that way. It is too bad.

I feel like this is the great tragedy for my generation... if you didn't find your mate when you were young, you are out of luck as there has been a temporary shift in figuring out how to find your mate. Or even the appropriate or helpful roles for males and females in a relationship. I feel like this is leading to separating people ( e.g., incels) almost needlessly.

Many guys I know complain they go on line and never get a response and become discouraged - taking it as a rejection. But to me that is just an obvious issue with the service not getting rid of old profiles as it makes it seem like they have plenty of people to choose from.

I know so many great women out there, accomplished, thin, generous, witty, and they are all alone. Most have given up trying to find a guy. Personally I am starting to think there is just a lack of good men out there. Online seems to flourish because it allows bad men to indulge in their selfish desires. But the chance of finding a good guy on there is very low.

I wonder if it always has been this way, a certain percentage of men even back in the 50s who were "dogs" but kept their behavior hidden because it wasn't socially acceptable / they had to marry to get any. Is it made even worse by having so many people around? Recently I saw a movie with an epic love story. But the thing was that both lived their lives on an island. Well of course you can be epically in love with someone else if they are the only other person around. Many of the literature stories I see from like the 1800s or something, you can see how few people are even available to a main character.

I have given up.

Dear, that's your low self esteem and distorted thinking guiding you. Stop that. I recommend that you read psychologist David Burns books. I did and those set me on the right path towards higher self esteem, and learning how to spot distorted thinking and other dysfunctional thinking patterns. Cognitive therapy is amazing and oriented in Buddhism, because it's about self-actualization, not in the kooky new-age way, but in the, hold-yourself-accountable-for-your-thoughts-and-actions way and you learn how to become more self-aware and you also learn to recognize healthy and dysfunctional speech and thought patterns in other people.

Don't compare yourself to these men. The grass may be greener but you don't know if they use fertilizer, had someone give them the green grass, or they stole that green grass, or pretend it's their green grass. You don't know. Don't envy those men b/c you just don't know. Focus on yourself; focus on being really satisfied with the man you've become RIGHT NOW, in the present, and this light you exude about being happy with who you are, right now, will attract other gay men who appreciate who you are on your journey.



Everything in your post bolded, I 100% agree with. I think my window for finding a man was before the internet came into existence just after I graduated college in the very early 1990s. But I never met "the one" in college like many love stories talk about, with married couples who've known each other a long time.

I've given up on love because I won't use online dating ever again. I will never invest myself with a man online, since I think that's false investment. You're essentially investing in the fantasy they create with you. Exchanging messages back and forth does not a real relationship make. It means you're just pen pals. That's all it means to me. And, I had pen pals growing up who lived in other countries, but we never got a chance to meet in person.

Stupid online dating has altered the way people interact with each other at bars, at Meetups, etc. and that drives me crazy! It's very likely a lack of good men/good women left to date...or, everyone is so glued to their cellphones, they could care less about interacting in person with each other anymore. Everything is "text me" "email me" but never "call me" anymore. I think I'm the only person I know, who STILL loves to talk on the phone. I hate texting and instant messaging and emailing where dating and romance is concerned. Words on a screen are meaningless to me, b/c they aren't spoken to me, face-to-face. Online dating is just...yuck...to me.

I didn't even try in college because I presumed I would have my entire life. But I was so wrong.

I now work with some millennials. They are accomplished, rich, thin, good looking and they are already complaining about not being able to find a guy. Makes me feel a little better. I have advised them not to go on online dating but they are having a tough time finding alternatives. Most of them spent their college and post college years getting degrees.

I think about 1/3rd of the population of men are taken early with marriage; 1/3rd are hiding out in some way or just not in the dating game and 1/3rd are "dogs" that are about their pleasure for the moment. In past years they had to get married to get what they wanted. But they don't anymore and the online dating world insures they have an abundant way to meet marks for as long as they wish.

I think honestly most men want to be in the driver's seat. They want women to be dependent on them or to "need" them in some way. Once you get equal to them, they don't really want you because you can drop them anytime. When they tell a bull story you will be there to say "that isn't true". They want to give you advice and have you lap it up. When you don't need their advice, guidance or anything else is when you become less attractive to them.

I agree. I do think you need to take some time to build your self esteem. There is so much to be said for liking and valuing yourself, knowing your strengths, etc. I also wonder, like Sandman said, if its the quality of men you are dating. I'm willing to guess there are other gay men out there not just wanting to have sex, and wanting what you want. A relationship. Take some time to work on yourself.

I also want to acknowledge what you said about sex and gay men being like shaking hands. I have a gay male friend, and he told me this is true. He is in a relationship now, but he said for gay men, the dating world is different. He has had many sex partners. He also mentioned though, that it was a phase. Like he did it for a while, but he has a partner now. Yeah, look for the guys who are more serious, and work on how you feel about yourself. With time, that can be changed.