Establishing boundaries with friends...

...when they treat you like their own personal therapist.

I touched on this briefly in another thread as it related to something else. But to recap, I've got a friend who, on a weekly basis, will come to my house and dump her emotional baggage all over my couch while I listen from a computer chair at my desk. She even asks my advice, and I offer half-remembered psychology tips or help problem solve or whatever else. I know I'm not qualified to be a therapist, and I'm not saying my advice is so good that she should be paying me. I also understand that it isn't uncommon for friends to discuss their problems with one another when the occasion calls for it. But the weekly schedule of her sprawling out on my couch and venting about her various life issues feels too much like she wants me to play therapist, and I think there are some lines being crossed here.

Moreover, I'm a psychopath, which is something she isn't aware of, and that only exacerbates the boundary issues and potential for manipulation or hurt feelings or whatever.

Am I reading too much into this? She has expressed a desire for me to open up to her (considering my condition, that's unlikely to happen regardless), but I'm getting the impression that this therapy-like relationship would be very much one-sided. I don't really bond with people, so I can't tell if this is normal bonding behavior, or if she's just using me as an emotional dumpster. I've had friends vent about their problems to me before, but not like this.

Well I am not a psychopath but I’d not tolerate people sitting on my coach and moping about their lives. Certainly not on a weekly basis.

I find it absolutely unrealistic.

First of all in order for them to come to my house they need my permission to do so. I am either not home or too busy. So no they can’t come over. Sure i might arrange lunch date or coffee meeting which I’d have an hour for. Then I move on. They can come over sometimes too but not to endlessly mope every week and sprawl on my coach lol.

Yesterday I went for dinner with a group of old friends. We mutually talked about life. If someone complained about things like illness or what not it was brief. If it was a moping session I’d skip our next get together. Now I have close friends with whom we do mutually share some sad news and sometimes people need the kind of support in hard times but it most certainly isn’t moping and venting one-sided therapy session on a weekly basis.

Listen you are saying you are a psychopath yet you often share your difficulty saying “no” to people or setting common sense boundaries. I’d think someone who has no feelings and no empathy would have easier time to just tell people to F..off. I have feelings but I have way less patience for BS than you!

I’d not tolerate this whatsoever.

Are you sure you were diagnosed correctly? Why can’t you set up boundaries?

Yeah, this is the sort of moping I'm more familiar with.

Which posts are you referring to?

I'm a psychopath because I have no qualms about violating other people's boundaries. Also, I don't get emotionally affected by other people's moping, so her venting on my couch is far more detrimental to her than it is to me. If I were to tell her "no," it would be for her benefit, not mine. Until I get bored of her moping, and then I'll put a stop to it. Or start billing her.

It’s nothing to do with being emotionally effected. I personally have low tolerance for people complaining too often (occasional is ok). Certainly not weekly but not because of emotional effect. I have other stuff to do, which I find more enjoyable and valuable.

Moping on my coach would take time away from me doing what I want to be doing at the time, which wouldn’t be listening to weekly venting.. Plus taking space on my coach. It appears that you are listening to her so that means you stop doing what you are doing unless you manage to still do what you want to do while she talks. But if you are having no issue with her venting every week then it’s all good. No issues then

As about posts re boundaries, you posted about this girl moping and venting and you not knowing how to stop it before. There were posts where you shared that you have hard time standing up for yourself. That’s why I don’t understand how you can be a psychopath yet hesitant about setting boundaries. That’s why i wonder about you doing additional evaluation to see if you are diagnosed properly. You might be low on empathy scale but you might be higher than many other people who’d have no issue with getting people off their backs

But if it doesn’t bother you or take away from your time when people violate your boundaries, then I see no issue with it. It’s all good

Okay, let me back up a bit. Yes, I do enjoy discussing people's issues, largely as a problem solving exercise and because I like trying to figure people out. If I had had something to do that day, I would've told her to get lost. I have no problem establishing boundaries. The problem is that I sometimes indulge in unhealthy relationships out of boredom, even though I know it's going to end badly. It's like waiting to watch a train wreck. I'm getting the feeling that this is one of those cases.

There's still a lot of value to be had out of this friendship. We're planning on becoming roommates (along with a third person) because rent for a single bedroom apartment is way too expensive. Also, we have a lot of similar interests, which can be hard to find. So my question is -- can this be a healthy friendship, or should I trust my instincts that this is a train wreck waiting to happen and start throwing up walls asap?

Also:
It's the same person.

I can’t tolerate people venting to me like this. People have done this to me at work. I don’t know what it is about the workplace that gives people the idea they can use their coworkers as a dumping ground for their emotional crap but it happens all the time. Do you think you’ll put a stop to this? Does it annoy you or do you just find it intriguing?

I'm leaning toward 'yes.' It just happened last night, and there are a lot of things I have to consider, not just her venting.

I like offering advice, so I didn't mind it at first, and I enjoyed hearing her rant about a lot of our colleagues. But it won't be long before I get tired of it.

To answer your question. No this isn’t a healthy friendship and it has no potential to be one. Just my opinion. But certainly you can be roommates. Or occasionally keep in touch.

Personally I’d not indulge in unhealthy relationships out of boredom. I don’t understand boredom. There isn’t enough time in the day, no time for being bored. And life is too short for unhealthy entanglements or being bored. Just my take on it

Saying that, there is no problem with becoming roommates unless of course it will mean moping sessions will become daily hahaha not weekly. Oh boy. Train wreck is understatement.

Thanks. It's a shame, because I really like our mutual friends, and it's nice to know someone who has interests similar to mine. Oh well.

As for us being roommates at a distance, I highly doubt that would work, and I wouldn't trust her if she promised to respect my boundaries. If I do put up boundaries and she crosses them, it's gonna get ugly.

Boredom is like a form of torture, and I indulge in unhealthy relationships to alleviate it. Most of the things I do are to alleviate boredom.

Why are you bored? Is there anything you enjoy? Hobbies? Reading? Making something? Learning something? Fun stuff? Do you have too much free time?

I'm always bored.

I like being challenged, and I think that's why I tend to indulge in relationships that involve manipulation and control, because I see it as a challenge. It's a game. Otherwise, I like a lot of sports and other physical activities such as hiking, card games, arguing, learning new skills, etc. I've done a lot of weird stuff for the sake of curiosity.

But I don’t see how you manipulate and control anyone if these people in fact take advantage of your valuable time and energy by making you listening to all their boring venting. In what way you manipulate these people when they are the ones benefiting here? It sounds like they manipulate you into providing them with pseudo- therapy for free and a shoulder to cry on, sounds boring. Fighting boredom with more boredom. Not sure where is the challenge there?

Learning some new exciting skill would be more challenge, wouldn’t it be?

I never said the subject of her venting was boring. In fact, it involved someone nearly getting stabbed, so it was a rather exciting story. Also, I wasn't just passively listening, but offering my opinion.

Considering the severity of the incident, I'm really not surprised that she would want to talk with someone about it, and it would've been fine if she had stopped there. But she didn't, and it seems as if she's trying to make this pseudo-therapy into a regular thing. Therein lies the problem.

It's definitely manipulative on her end, which wouldn't really bother me as long as I was getting something out of it. My thought was to figure out a way to set up a boundary tactfully in order to preserve the friendship, or at least so we could still be roommates. But I don't think that's possible.

Ongoing resentment (resulting from not saying anything) of her invasion of your physical and emotional space is going to destroy, not preserve, the friendship.

Yep. I'm just trying to figure out a way to say it tactfully enough to not destroy our friendship. Or determine if that's even possible to do that. Like I said, if I establish a boundary and she crosses it (which she will), it's going to get ugly.

You can tactfully tell her that weekly hang outs just aren’t possible. Suggest to see her in few weeks and make interactions less lengthy. You can maintain friendship with less frequent interactions. Also suggest doing something together rather than just sitting on a coach.

I also think it’s ok to do some white lies if you don’t want to hurt her. Tell her you are busy and will see her next week or whenever you want to see her. You don’t need to be always free for her

I've had friends like this (and been that friend). Have you tried changing the topic before she gets on a roll with her rants? That technique has sort of worked for me with one friend who can't stop complaining, but if I don't catch it in time, there's no stopping him.

Yeah, I know how to redirect conversations and white lie my way out of situations. I'm pretty good at the game, and I even enjoy it most of the time. However, if we're going to live in the same house, I'll need to set up strong, healthy boundaries and make my intentions clear.

Also, let me clarify on the psychopath thing. I know the psychopathic way of establishing and defending boundaries, but I'm trying not to be manipulative or blatantly mean. Rather, I'm asking how a normal person would establish healthy boundaries in a way that doesn't destroy the relationship. If I want to live with someone, I need to learn healthy boundaries, which includes defending my own boundaries in a healthy way. I don't handle it well when other people try to manipulate me or overstep my boundaries.

You can establish healthy boundaries but you cannot control how she will respond to them. She could destroy the relationship over your healthy boundaries, but that would be on her, not you.

Absolutely true. But how, and how to defend them in a healthy way.

I don't get bothered easily and I've learned to restrain myself somewhat, but in the past, I've threatened the lives of friends and family members over minor inconveniences. It can get bad real quick.

Have you ever considered medical school? You might make a good physician. Never time to be bored or curious and you’re already good with boundaries.

It isn't really my cup of tea. My current job keeps me pretty entertained at the moment. If I do decide on a major career change that requires me going back to school, it'll probably be law since I already have a background in it.

And it isn't merely lack of things to do. I'm also terribly bored by responsibilities that are tedious. But isn't that normal?

Law school was the other thing that came to mind for you. Yes, I agree that every day responsibilities can become quite tedious.

Maybe you could avoid indefinitely, but to me, in order to set a boundary, one needs to say it out loud.

One could begin by saying how much you value the friendship—but one thing has been difficult for you, which is ...

And therefore you are asking...

Because you wouldn’t want anything to come between you.

Once you have a boundary, you can use gentle, non threatening humor to remind her of it.

Okay, if that's the case, you may want to set boundaries with her in writing rather than in person or over the phone.

This way, you have time to think about what you write in response to whatever she writes.

If she starts guilt-tripping you over text or email and you see yourself getting increasingly frustrated with her, walk away from your phone or computer, take a deep breath, go do some processing or go do something else and come back to it when you are calmer.