Now this isn't one of those looking for support things.. I know it, people don't really like me. They aren't loyal to me.

A few years ago I joined my condo's board. I was with two other women, I thought they would like me but, they definitely didn't. Once I got off they stopped talking to me. One of those ladies is well known for being horrible and a pain. And she has driven many people off the board, but, those same people STILL talk to her. But, not me.

I got back on the Board because of one of the worst members of all time. This member is just horrible. He is rude, he lies, he patronizes women, he says no to every maintenance request. 2 others got on the board in direct response to him but, they both had zero loyalty to me. In fact, one of them, a woman no less, is now his BFF and loyal to him.

With 5 members I am basically all alone. I thought it would be a good way to make friends in the condo but I have only alienated all of them.

I don't really even know how. I respond quickly, I am never rude or put anyone down. While "the idiot" as I like to call him is always rude, wrong, patronizing and bullying. He even lies about the residents but they all love him.

I have complained about this before at work as well, my co workers are not "LOYAL" to me. I have many co workers who I get along with and sometimes if not one else is around they will do stuff with me but I am not the #1. If their #1 shows up, which is typically anyone but me... they will go with them first.

I have been thinking about it and I don't have much of a relationship history. Many guys just have been super luke warm toward me. I think now that some of this goes into it. To have a relationship they guy has to really really like you. But no one every really really likes me. I am never the #1 choice of anyone for anything...

I think I want to change it...

My guesses:
1. I am boring. I don't head off to Europe or buy new cars or have a significant other. These things seem like catnip to everyone else... but I don't want them.
2. I am honest and accurate. People like to gossip. They like to lie and say "yah" and when someone doesn't tell the truth, I like to correct them and find out the truth. People don't like that.
3. I like to get back to people and not make them wait. And, I think other people don't like that and also, take it for granted.
4. I inadvertently show people up. I don't do anything at all unless I do it right and quickly. I research things before I ever present it. Other people don't do that because they are off on their trips to Europe. So, when I shine, they resent it.
5. I hate pretense. If I am not happy with you I don't lie to your face like a psychopath. But some people do, and people can't see through their lies.
6. Sort of related to 5... I am not an extrovert. Often the crazies will go right up to residents and chat with them... I don't like to do that. But it seems people respond to talking in person.
7. ETA.. I never give anyone reason to worry about me. I am never in trouble at work, never have issues at home, never get sick... no one ever had to feel bad for me or worry about me.

Some of those things I don't want to change but I am starting to feel like if I don't I will end up all alone eaten by my cat when I pass.

[Bill3]

I think I want to change it...

When I want to change something specific about myself, I find that a good first step is to notice it.

Without judgment--

Just notice.

"There it is again."

I find this to be helpful, in time, in bringing my mind--more or less on its own if you will--to start to change that specific thing.

[Open Eyes]

1. I am boring. I don't head off to Europe or buy new cars or have a significant other. These things seem like catnip to everyone else... but I don't want them.

Did you ever watch the movie "Sabrina"? I don't know if you can get access to that movie where you live, but it's a good movie to watch. One of the character's in the movie is always the one that is busy working and never really learned how to "play". This character is the oldest male and he has a younger brother that tends to play while he took over the business his father had and focused all his attention on running that business. At one point he talked about how his younger brother used to go to the office but just stopped going. Sabrina told him that the reason he stopped going when asked was "Why should I go when my older brother is there running everything".

You say you don't travel, that you were not interested in getting married and that you are very honest and proficient. You shared that you don't really stop and chit chat with people that travel either. When people travel Emily, they like to sit and talk about all the interesting things they saw and experienced. It's very possible other people don't take time to fact find because they all know YOU will do that. It's very possible that you are just too private and withdrawn where other people feel you are just not interested in them personally.

[winter4me]

What do you mean by "loyal"? Why would you need to be #1?
At the risk of pissing you off, you sound judgmental and impatient with others. Maybe if you can step back a bit and watch situations with some interest and empathy...?

Originally Posted by winter4me

What do you mean by "loyal"? Why would you need to be #1?
At the risk of pissing you off, you sound judgmental and impatient with others. Maybe if you can step back a bit and watch situations with some interest and empathy...?

You didn't risk it, you did it.

It is stating the truth about others. Not my fault if they are legitimately this way.

You shared that you don't really stop and chit chat with people that travel either.

No I didn't. I swear to god this is how my day goes..

Co worker: Blah blah blah blah blah about me,
Me: Yeh I know what you mean I did....
Co worker: Gotta go!! Work work work.

They literally have been known to hang up on me.

It is possible that people get used to my being available for them to spew too and since I don't have a ton going on that is considered major -- like oh this weekend I went to Paris, as opposed to, this weekend I finished cleaning my car... they don't want to hear anything that isn't "major".

I have seen Sabrina, that could be at play in the condo situation. People let me go and I outshine them and then they don't want to be held to the standard I hold myself to. They would rather be friends with someone who won't be expecting a lot of them.

[unaluna]

You never talk about your family of origin. But i can relate to a lot of the things you listed here, so i wouldnt be surprised if there were some similarities in how we were raised.

My mother always pushed the idea that we were the best of all the relatives - they were the best parents, we were the smartest and tallest and most talented kids, also the oldest (except for the ones who were older, but they didnt really count for some reason!) - and i bought into it.

This did not serve me well when i entered the real world. Im not sure i ever DID enter the real world!

The seminar How to win friends and influence people showed me that i did not consider other people equal to myself, and that THAT WAS HURTING ME. That was holding me back in life. I fear the same thing is happening to you.

You dont need to surrender ALL judgment. But it is simply not true when you say:

It is stating the truth about others. Not my fault if they are legitimately this way.

You dont own the truth. You own YOUR truth, but not THE truth.

THE truth is offputting. Sharing YOUR truth honestly may be interesting and friend-making.

[Open Eyes]

I have seen Sabrina, that could be at play in the condo situation. People let me go and I outshine them and then they don't want to be held to the standard I hold myself to. They would rather be friends with someone who won't be expecting a lot of them.

Let's refrase that, people don't want to hang out with people who tend to be too rigid and closed. They prefer to spend time with people who are more open and less controlling. One of the sayings used to describe the controlling older brother is "he is the only LIVING heart donor".

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

One of the sayings used to describe the controlling older brother is "he is the only LIVING heart donor".

That must have been the remake!

[Open Eyes]

My older sister has this presence about her that turns people off. That's because she seems to need others to measure up to HER standards all the time. She was/is very talented in her own way yet she tended to be too bossy and controlling with other people. I was able to play with her (I am 4 years younger than her) as a child, but I always knew that when we played SHE had to play HER WAY. She tends to turn people off having that kind of personality.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by unaluna

That must have been the remake!

Yes, I was thinking about the one with Harrison Ford playing the oldest brother, not the earlier version where that role was played by Humphrey Bogart.

[MickeyCheeky]

I understand what you mean, @Emily Fox Seaton! Even though my situation is completely different from yours, I can relate to your wanting to make friends but never really knowing how. It's hard! I'm not the most qualified person on the matter and I won't tell you that you need to change or what you need to change since it IS important to stay true to ourselves. At the same time, sometimes certain behaviors can come in handy during some social situations - even though I don't know what they may be!! Lol!! My advice is: stick to your guns, but acknowledge the situation you're in. Even if you don't make lots of friends, you'll still be able to make at least some friends who will TRULY Accept you and Love you for who you TRULY are! That's what I Believe anyway! You seem to have good social skills so that's good at least even though it IS difficult when we ourselves are introverts. Definitely keep fighting though! I'm sure good things will come soon to you! KEEP FIGHTING! Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, Emily Fox Seaton, my dear, sweet friend, and ALL of your Loved Ones!

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by unaluna

You never talk about your family of origin. But i can relate to a lot of the things you listed here, so i wouldnt be surprised if there were some similarities in how we were raised.

My mother always pushed the idea that we were the best of all the relatives - they were the best parents, we were the smartest and tallest and most talented kids, also the oldest (except for the ones who were older, but they didnt really count for some reason!) - and i bought into it.

This did not serve me well when i entered the real world. Im not sure i ever DID enter the real world!

The seminar How to win friends and influence people showed me that i did not consider other people equal to myself, and that THAT WAS HURTING ME. That was holding me back in life. I fear the same thing is happening to you.

You dont need to surrender ALL judgment. But it is simply not true when you say:

It is stating the truth about others. Not my fault if they are legitimately this way.

You dont own the truth. You own YOUR truth, but not THE truth.

THE truth is offputting. Sharing YOUR truth honestly may be interesting and friend-making.

You bring up some good points unaluna.

Often we pick up some unhealthy imprinting from our parents. These can be things that end up causing us problems when we go out in the so called "real world". Yet, we can also pick up unhealthy imprinting from school too where we learn we are only praised and respected for getting everything right and being some kind of "perfect student". Often because we do a lot of learning and a smaller school environment, it can be quite the shock when going to a bigger college where it's not so small and intimate and suddenly one loses their "popular" standing and suddenly they are some kind of nobody. Often, it's the ones that never were "all that" that can adjust better because it's the same to them where they were not considered "the best or most popular".

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Let's refrase that, people don't want to hang out with people who tend to be too rigid and closed. They prefer to spend time with people who are more open and less controlling. One of the sayings used to describe the controlling older brother is "he is the only LIVING heart donor".

See but I am not controlling. I am 100% the opposite of that. However, every time we come to a meeting they have done.. nothing ...and I rewrote the declaration of trust with amendments and btw, I fixed a few maintenance requests myself and oh also, did the agenda and etc. It is more on the line of David feeling he is unnecessary because Linus has taken care of it already.

They don't like it. They want everyone to show up having done nothing. They have made a choice to have the life they have... which includes going to the beach on the weekends and or seeing a movie and they want to do that and be on the board. But the fact that I choose not to do those things and be on the board and DO WORK, makes them feel like slackers and they don't like that.

My mother always pushed the idea that we were the best of all the relatives - they were the best parents, we were the smartest and tallest and most talented kids, also the oldest (except for the ones who were older, but they didnt really count for some reason!) - and i bought into it.

Nope. Honestly I wish it weren't true but in this circumstance the level they bring to the table is very very low and it would be inaccurate to not state that I legitimately objectively do a much better job than they do. I hope to inspire them by my example but they don't want to work hard. They see the work as something they "putter with" and I don't. But clearly they are judgmental to me. They want to bring me down to their level and I want to raise them up to mine. But I hope only that they will see my example and join in. Instead of doing that they seem to childishly resent me for being me.

But ok they don't like me but the board member I don't like is reviled in the condo. He is patronizing and rude and does not care about the law or the truth or anything and yet, knowing he is lying to them or knowing they got on the board because they were so outraged by him (which we all did), they still prefer him because at the end of the day he is amusing and when he lies about a resident they can say "yah right" and get all gossipy. When I call out that this is probably not true and I have never seen that resident act that way.. they are all upset that I saw through the ruse and they feel foolish for believing it.

On my last board one of the other ladies was the "alpha" and I did get off the board because I didn't feel I was necessary and my input wasn't valued, but the difference here was that I offered no ill will toward her and always tried to talk to her and the other member but the moment I got off they acted like I was persona non grata.

[Open Eyes]

They don't like it. They want everyone to show up having done nothing. They have made a choice to have the life they have... which includes going to the beach on the weekends and or seeing a movie and they want to do that and be on the board. But the fact that I choose not to do those things and be on the board and DO WORK, makes them feel like slackers and they don't like that.

Maybe they think being a board member is more about socializing and *****ing then actually participating in getting things done. Sometimes what works well is getting them to first "say" what needs to be done. For example Harry notices that lights are out and bulbs need changing, that's when you say "great Harry, you can do the lights" anyone else? Or, have a pad with you and as members bring up different things write the person who complains or points something out each time and then at the end asign those individuals with fixing whatever it is they bring up that needs fixing. Even have that person get in touch with someone that can fix whatever it is if it's something that no one can fix themselves.

It's often a challenge when it comes to groups to get everyone to actually DO things. And if you happen to do a lot of it, often people avoid that person because by avoiding that person they can avoid having to actually do anything.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

Now this isn't one of those looking for support things.. I know it, people don't really like me. They aren't loyal to me.

A few years ago I joined my condo's board. I was with two other women, I thought they would like me but, they definitely didn't. Once I got off they stopped talking to me. One of those ladies is well known for being horrible and a pain. And she has driven many people off the board, but, those same people STILL talk to her. But, not me.

I got back on the Board because of one of the worst members of all time. This member is just horrible. He is rude, he lies, he patronizes women, he says no to every maintenance request. 2 others got on the board in direct response to him but, they both had zero loyalty to me. In fact, one of them, a woman no less, is now his BFF and loyal to him.

With 5 members I am basically all alone. I thought it would be a good way to make friends in the condo but I have only alienated all of them.

I don't really even know how. I respond quickly, I am never rude or put anyone down. While "the idiot" as I like to call him is always rude, wrong, patronizing and bullying. He even lies about the residents but they all love him.

I have complained about this before at work as well, my co workers are not "LOYAL" to me. I have many co workers who I get along with and sometimes if not one else is around they will do stuff with me but I am not the #1. If their #1 shows up, which is typically anyone but me... they will go with them first.

I have been thinking about it and I don't have much of a relationship history. Many guys just have been super luke warm toward me. I think now that some of this goes into it. To have a relationship they guy has to really really like you. But no one every really really likes me. I am never the #1 choice of anyone for anything...

I think I want to change it...

My guesses:
1. I am boring. I don't head off to Europe or buy new cars or have a significant other. These things seem like catnip to everyone else... but I don't want them.
2. I am honest and accurate. People like to gossip. They like to lie and say "yah" and when someone doesn't tell the truth, I like to correct them and find out the truth. People don't like that.
3. I like to get back to people and not make them wait. And, I think other people don't like that and also, take it for granted.
4. I inadvertently show people up. I don't do anything at all unless I do it right and quickly. I research things before I ever present it. Other people don't do that because they are off on their trips to Europe. So, when I shine, they resent it.
5. I hate pretense. If I am not happy with you I don't lie to your face like a psychopath. But some people do, and people can't see through their lies.
6. Sort of related to 5... I am not an extrovert. Often the crazies will go right up to residents and chat with them... I don't like to do that. But it seems people respond to talking in person.
7. ETA.. I never give anyone reason to worry about me. I am never in trouble at work, never have issues at home, never get sick... no one ever had to feel bad for me or worry about me.

Some of those things I don't want to change but I am starting to feel like if I don't I will end up all alone eaten by my cat when I pass.

I think you do have a forthrightness that is probably off-putting to a lot of people. People like to be coddled for their mistakes and shortcomings; they don't like someone who shows them up just because they intend to do a good job. I don't think it's so much extroversion that is the problem, but taking the time to connect to people.

None of the things you list above about yourself is inherently a problem EXCEPT that you seem to think it's keeping you from having the kind of relationships you want. So for this to change, the only thing you can do is change your approach to it. And really, regardless of it being about other people or you, the only thing you can control is you, so that's the only way you can affect the outcome.

Here is some speculation, not knowing all the details, in my attempt to help. Please forgive me/ignore my comment if it's way off base.

Even though the things you mentioned don't actually bother me (I sort of feel like IRL we'd be friends) it sounds like the way you interact with people needs to change. It does sound like people are maybe alienated by whatever you're putting off. I wouldn't suggest changing things like being direct or telling the truth, or giving the 150% on everything that you give, but is there a way you can be less judgmental that they have different values?

Also, are these the only two places where this is occurring? Have you tried to make friends in groups of places that would actually inherently have things in common with you? The thing about work is that you are coworkers, not friends. And you are all forced by way of employment to be in the same space, so you may not actually have anything in common or any emotional/extracurricular connection. Same goes with the condo board. You may have nothing in common with your neighbors. But that could be the place to start if you do want friends in those places. It doesn't have to be world travel or kids or boyfriends that you have in common. It could be something as simple as a TV show.

The other suggestion would be to make friends by going to group meetups or events where people who would naturally have things in common with you, versus an environment that's set up based on different relational parameters.

Originally Posted by seesaw

Even though the things you mentioned don't actually bother me (I sort of feel like IRL we'd be friends) it sounds like the way you interact with people needs to change. It does sound like people are maybe alienated by whatever you're putting off.

I am not 100% sure I want to change it. But perhaps I will have to if my goal is to make friends. But then I think, do I want to make friends with people that need to be coddled this way? I suppose I am just disappointed that doing a good job and working hard offends so many seemingly normal people. The irony is that I hold back my sincere wish to lecture them on their many failings to keep the peace so I wonder sometimes if I should just let it all out.

I have the problem at work as well. But not as bad. But I still don't understand why at work I am always the "oh if she is around" but never top dog.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

I am not 100% sure I want to change it. But perhaps I will have to if my goal is to make friends. But then I think, do I want to make friends with people that need to be coddled this way? I suppose I am just disappointed that doing a good job and working hard offends so many seemingly normal people. The irony is that I hold back my sincere wish to lecture them on their many failings to keep the peace so I wonder sometimes if I should just let it all out.

I have the problem at work as well. But not as bad. But I still don't understand why at work I am always the "oh if she is around" but never top dog.

That's kind of what I was going for - is this just this two places, which are sort of superimposed? And do you really want these people as friends? Maybe better to look for real friends in other places with people who do hold the same values, and just let these people be coworkers and neighbors - on friendly terms, but not close.

In regards to "oh if she's around" do you actually want to be "top dog" in the popularity pool? Is this affecting your work quality or getting promotions, etc? Or is this solely about the water cooler/happy hour/extracurricular stuff with coworkers?

I think you're right to determine if it's even something you care that much about or what you want your level of "friendship" to be with these people. But I also think it would be good to find some people who "get" you so you don't feel "snubbed" (for lack of a better word) by neighbors and coworkers that you don't seem to like too much anyhow.

[Open Eyes]

Usually the person that has more friends is a friendly person that people walk away from feeling good about themselves or feeling they were welcome in some way to participate and engage. The KEY word in what I just said is FEEL. Often that's why people gossip. They are often looking for imperfections they can find in others so they don't have to feel so bad about their own imperfections or insecure feelings or fears or hurts. Sometimes gossip can bring some kind of answer to "see, I knew there was something I did not like about that person" or "no wonder why that person left me FEELING weird or uncomfortable in some way". And, yet, what it can mean is the person gossiping doesn't want others to like a person because of how that person makes them feel too. And then there are times where a person gossips because they are looking for attention and often people tend to be drawn to gossip even if it's just to debunk it. And sometimes it's just to have something to talk about.