[xiximmxi]

I have a guy friend who I've known since high school.
He moved to California about three years ago and since then we've lost a bit of contact but still text every now and then. We were good friends; he even shared an apartment with my boyfriend at the time after we all graduated.

The problem is - I am no longer with that boyfriend (after five long years), and ever since he has moved to CA he would text me randomly just saying sweet things people say when they haven't seen each other in a while and then eventually it gets to the point where I'm kind of uncomfortable because I feel like he is trying to get out of the "Friend Zone"... and I shut that nonsense down (very subtly, I thought) by saying something about the guy I'm talking to now, or something. Then after that he stops responding to me. And after a couple of months he will randomly message me again & it's like this vicious circle over again. If he was someone I met recently, I'd just assume he is a ****boy and move on, but since I've known him for so long I have hard time judging what is right.

I'm starting to think that he was never really my friend. And that really hurts; I don't open up to a lot of people. I miss our old days when we told each other everything without this weird tension - I just want platonic companionship and I never seem to get that with men. I am so sick of them pretending like they are my friends until they realize I have no intention to **** them!

Do you think women and men can be just friends?

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

I have a guy friend who I've known since high school.
He moved to California about three years ago and since then we've lost a bit of contact but still text every now and then. We were good friends; he even shared an apartment with my boyfriend at the time after we all graduated.

The problem is - I am no longer with that boyfriend (after five long years), and ever since he has moved to CA he would text me randomly just saying sweet things people say when they haven't seen each other in a while and then eventually it gets to the point where I'm kind of uncomfortable because I feel like he is trying to get out of the "Friend Zone"... and I shut that nonsense down (very subtly, I thought) by saying something about the guy I'm talking to now, or something. Then after that he stops responding to me. And after a couple of months he will randomly message me again & it's like this vicious circle over again. If he was someone I met recently, I'd just assume he is a ****boy and move on, but since I've known him for so long I have hard time judging what is right.

I'm starting to think that he was never really my friend. And that really hurts; I don't open up to a lot of people. I miss our old days when we told each other everything without this weird tension - I just want platonic companionship and I never seem to get that with men. I am so sick of them pretending like they are my friends until they realize I have no intention to **** them!

Do you think women and men can be just friends?

Some can. Some can't. It seems your friend is in the "can't" category. What's really happening, I think, is he's changed as a person. Which means the way he sees you and others has probably changed. What applied before, doesn't apply today, because he's changed. He hasn't done anything wrong, because everyone changes. But...it changes the dynamic of your relationship. Unfortunately, we only have the ability to change ourselves. This means you are stuck in a position of having to take, or leave, relationships as they are. I've ended long friendships in the past five years. And others, who I thought were my friend, have ended their relationship with me. It's normal, because people change and their needs change. It's easy to look in the rear-view mirror at what was, but it's not helpful, because you're not going backwards. Returning to a past point in life may be appealing, but it's not going to happen. So you can set clear boundaries with guys who want more than friendship when you do not. And they will definitely reveal who they are when you do it. If they leave because of it, you are better off. If they stick around, you still need to make sure they are aware of the boundaries. If they stick around in the long term, great. If they don't, great. It really comes down to being true to yourself and your feelings and accepting whatever happens after that, even if it means losing a "friend."

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by clairerobin

Some can. Some can't. It seems your friend is in the "can't" category. What's really happening, I think, is he's changed as a person. Which means the way he sees you and others has probably changed. What applied before, doesn't apply today, because he's changed. He hasn't done anything wrong, because everyone changes. But...it changes the dynamic of your relationship. Unfortunately, we only have the ability to change ourselves. This means you are stuck in a position of having to take, or leave, relationships as they are. I've ended long friendships in the past five years. And others, who I thought were my friend, have ended their relationship with me. It's normal, because people change and their needs change. It's easy to look in the rear-view mirror at what was, but it's not helpful, because you're not going backwards. Returning to a past point in life may be appealing, but it's not going to happen. So you can set clear boundaries with guys who want more than friendship when you do not. And they will definitely reveal who they are when you do it. If they leave because of it, you are better off. If they stick around, you still need to make sure they are aware of the boundaries. If they stick around in the long term, great. If they don't, great. It really comes down to being true to yourself and your feelings and accepting whatever happens after that, even if it means losing a "friend."

That's great advice/perspective.
I have a hard time letting people go. It makes me feel inadequate...

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

That's great advice/perspective.
I have a hard time letting people go. It makes me feel inadequate...

Ahhhh. I understand. Perhaps you see it as a failure on your part. But...it has nothing to do with you. That other person is seeking something. And they are seeking something from you that you don't want to give. You're not the right person to give that thing to them. And perhaps that person might see you as inadequate or any other assortment of negative labels. But that's THEM. You are not who they define you as. You're learning to respect and value yourself (that's what setting boundaries is about). And that's great, because you sound like you are learning a very valuable thing at a fairly young age. Many don't figure this out until they are much older. And some people never figure it out. Understanding all of this, right now, makes you strong, independent thinking, reflective and many other good things. And you are loving yourself enough to do this. It's far from inadequate.

[xiximmxi]

This is exactly what I needed to hear.

Should I let those people drift apart slowly or just cut them off?
Do you try to explain how you feel to them?

[MickeyCheeky]

Whathever you decide. However, if he insists, perhaps it's wise to just be honest and tell the truth about how you feel.

[s4ndm4n2006]

You question whether he was ever your friend which implies many things that really make me quite concerned. Sounds like you were friendly for quite some time, and your statement that you think he was never your friend implies that he always had ulterior motives with you.. don't you think that you'd have gotten that impression prior to your breakup with your bf?

Also that you lump "men" as a group into this mentality that "they" pretend to be your friend until they figure out you don't want sex. it really is kind of stereotyping that men or the majority of them all just see women or want companionship with women only for the sex. I'd say I'm insulted by this being a male but I'm not, I just know that's not the case. Be careful fof making sweeping conclusions about whole groups of people. This is NOT in any way denying that there are men (and likely women) that have sexual one track minds. just not all or even the majority.

To answer your question, yes, men and women can be friends but judge each person by their own merits and don't write them off because the belong to a certain group or gender, you'll likely miss out on chances for some really good friendships if you do.

As for the guy, rather than questioning whether he ever had ulterior motives, just look at it this way, things and people change. A person once not interested in anything but friendship at one point may later change, which could be the case. Could he have been interested already? Sure, but likely you would have picked up on that attraction a long time ago. it's not something easy to hide even if you don't act on it.

Going forward, if his behavior is unacceptable, I'd cut off the friendship and communication as you've already made it clear that you're not interested in more. NO reason for you to keep putting yourself in an uncomfortable position with this guy. There are good people, male and female out there that will be more respectful to your wishes.

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

This is exactly what I needed to hear.

Should I let those people drift apart slowly or just cut them off?
Do you try to explain how you feel to them?

My experience with doing something is sometimes that makes it worse. I believe there are many things out of our control. If something is meant to happen, nothing will stop it from happening. If something is not meant to happen, nothing will make it happen. I don't mean to say we are victims of fate. I just think there are things we came here to do, a perfect path you might call it. If we venture from that perfect path that is perfect just for us, our lives get difficult. The universe can take care of this for you, if you let it. And if you trust it.

You don't have to do anything, although doing something might make you feel you have closure. Perhaps you could find closure in other ways than by cutting them off. Also, if you do cut them off, do you have to make that decision today? Perhaps just letting things fall part on their own is enough to show you that not all endings have to be sad or painful. Even though endings are painful, their a huge part of life, but the pain doesn't last forever.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by clairerobin

My experience with doing something is sometimes that makes it worse. I believe there are many things out of our control. If something is meant to happen, nothing will stop it from happening. If something is not meant to happen, nothing will make it happen. I don't mean to say we are victims of fate. I just think there are things we came here to do, a perfect path you might call it. If we venture from that perfect path that is perfect just for us, our lives get difficult. The universe can take care of this for you, if you let it. And if you trust it.

You don't have to do anything, although doing something might make you feel you have closure. Perhaps you could find closure in other ways than by cutting them off. Also, if you do cut them off, do you have to make that decision today? Perhaps just letting things fall part on their own is enough to show you that not all endings have to be sad or painful. Even though endings are painful, their a huge part of life, but the pain doesn't last forever.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this.
I can definitely understand what you're saying; we have to just let things be, and let things go sometimes.

I actually ended up telling him how I actually feel - I thought it would be better than just ghosting.
I've said what I had to say and now I can move on from all this... As hard as it may be to lose someone close.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

You question whether he was ever your friend which implies many things that really make me quite concerned. Sounds like you were friendly for quite some time, and your statement that you think he was never your friend implies that he always had ulterior motives with you.. don't you think that you'd have gotten that impression prior to your breakup with your bf?

Also that you lump "men" as a group into this mentality that "they" pretend to be your friend until they figure out you don't want sex. it really is kind of stereotyping that men or the majority of them all just see women or want companionship with women only for the sex. I'd say I'm insulted by this being a male but I'm not, I just know that's not the case. Be careful fof making sweeping conclusions about whole groups of people. This is NOT in any way denying that there are men (and likely women) that have sexual one track minds. just not all or even the majority.

To answer your question, yes, men and women can be friends but judge each person by their own merits and don't write them off because the belong to a certain group or gender, you'll likely miss out on chances for some really good friendships if you do.

As for the guy, rather than questioning whether he ever had ulterior motives, just look at it this way, things and people change. A person once not interested in anything but friendship at one point may later change, which could be the case. Could he have been interested already? Sure, but likely you would have picked up on that attraction a long time ago. it's not something easy to hide even if you don't act on it.

Going forward, if his behavior is unacceptable, I'd cut off the friendship and communication as you've already made it clear that you're not interested in more. NO reason for you to keep putting yourself in an uncomfortable position with this guy. There are good people, male and female out there that will be more respectful to your wishes.

Of course I wasn't saying every single man in the world is like this. And obviously the gender here doesn't really matter - men, women, children - we are all capable of being shallow or to hurt someone, intentionally or unintentionally. I apologize, I wasn't exactly PC when I posted it...

& You're right, there is no reason for me to put myself through all this for his friendship if he can't respect me.

[xiximmxi]

Has anyone watched the movie called 500 Days of Summer?


This is from the movie:

“A guy and a girl can be just be friends, but at one point or another, they’ll fall for each other…
Maybe temporarily, maybe at the wrong time, maybe too late, or maybe forever."

Friend-zoning is a fickle bi*ch!

[Borderline69]

I find this question to be very bizarre to say the least. I think back when I was in school, junior high, high school, I had plenty of male friends. I didn't Fthem or ever wanted to. Why is it so hard to fathom men and women not remotely attracted to one another. And to take it a step further, there are plenty of men I find v attractive that I'm just not In to. I dont dream or fantasize about them, and I know btw we interact they are not dreaming g about me either.

There is more than male vs female involved in wanting a deeper connection/ personal intimacy. Now I'm not a man however as a woman I NEVER think about sex when I'm around an attractive man. I've asked plenty of men this question and many men say the same about women, especially married men. If a married man deeply loves his wife, he doesn't care about other women sexually or in any way romantic.

Perhaps it is only men who could potentially have this problem bc if you ask a woman if men and women can be just friends you will probably get the are you kidding me look. Not all men , just men who have issues with cheating and devotion to one woman. Thankfully they are not a dime a dozen.

Silly question really, men may see it differently.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by Borderline69

I find this question to be very bizarre to say the least. I think back when I was in school, junior high, high school, I had plenty of male friends. I didn't Fthem or ever wanted to. Why is it so hard to fathom men and women not remotely attracted to one another. And to take it a step further, there are plenty of men I find v attractive that I'm just not In to. I dont dream or fantasize about them, and I know btw we interact they are not dreaming g about me either.

There is more than male vs female involved in wanting a deeper connection/ personal intimacy. Now I'm not a man however as a woman I NEVER think about sex when I'm around an attractive man. I've asked plenty of men this question and many men say the same about women, especially married men. If a married man deeply loves his wife, he doesn't care about other women sexually or in any way romantic.

Perhaps it is only men who could potentially have this problem bc if you ask a woman if men and women can be just friends you will probably get the are you kidding me look. Not all men , just men who have issues with cheating and devotion to one woman. Thankfully they are not a dime a dozen.

Silly question really, men may see it differently.

I have noticed that when you're hanging out with other couples (married or not), it's def much easier to all be friends. Probably because they have "eyes" on them. I've had my gf's men come up to me and tell me I'm pretty and that we should "go over here" while they were just alone with me, especially if they're drunk.

And back in high school this wasn't an issue for me either - I hung out with a lot of guys that were just friends. But we were all just kids.

The older I get, I find it more difficult to have a 1:1 conversation or "catch ups" with a man or guy friend that are single without any sort of tension. Surely it's not impossible for a man and a woman to have a platonic relationship, but how many of those do we really have in an adult world?

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

Of course I wasn't saying every single man in the world is like this. And obviously the gender here doesn't really matter - men, women, children - we are all capable of being shallow or to hurt someone, intentionally or unintentionally. I apologize, I wasn't exactly PC when I posted it...

& You're right, there is no reason for me to put myself through all this for his friendship if he can't respect me.

It's not so much that being PC was the reason I mention the male thing really but that there really are people that kind of globalize a gender in this way. I feel that this tends to hinder the person who is thinking that way only because for example I think that all women really are [insert behavior or trait here]... is it going to give me the type of attitude that would motivate me to interact with women positively? I mention it and it does sound like a statement about PC but really I feel that if someone does think this way and globalize things, I try to encourage them to realize their faulty thinking for their own good

Idk if I've clarified or confused things more but if it is the latter I'm sorry.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

It's not so much that being PC was the reason I mention the male thing really but that there really are people that kind of globalize a gender in this way. I feel that this tends to hinder the person who is thinking that way only because for example I think that all women really are [insert behavior or trait here]... is it going to give me the type of attitude that would motivate me to interact with women positively? I mention it and it does sound like a statement about PC but really I feel that if someone does think this way and globalize things, I try to encourage them to realize their faulty thinking for their own good

Idk if I've clarified or confused things more but if it is the latter I'm sorry.

No you're not confusing It makes perfect sense.

Obviously I do not think all men are this way. Just like how not all women are emotional and crazy like people say we are. LOL. I try not to say words like "all, never, always, everything, nothing" but... I tend to exaggerate. Oops

[poorlittlefish]

Every friendship I've had with a man has been purely platonic on my part, but each time the guy developed feelings that were not reciprocated. The friendship would tend to continue only until the guy got a girlfriend. It would make me think he only wanted to keep me as a friend in the hope I'd change my mind and I was discarded as soon as someone better came along.

Only one male friend has continued being friends with me, so sadly my experience is that men and women can't be friends but I wish it was different.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by poorlittlefish

Every friendship I've had with a man has been purely platonic on my part, but each time the guy developed feelings that were not reciprocated...

I am experiencing the same.

The funny thing is, it makes me feel like it's my fault that I didn't develop any romantic feelings for them and that I'm not good enough for them to want to be my friend if it's not as their girlfriend. And I get sad that I'm losing people who would've otherwise been great buddies.

What's the difference between a friend and a gf/bf anyway? Besides being physical.
I want to really connect with someone, on a spiritual level. I think that should come first before sex.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

I am experiencing the same.

The funny thing is, it makes me feel like it's my fault that I didn't develop any romantic feelings for them and that I'm not good enough for them to want to be my friend if it's not as their girlfriend. And I get sad that I'm losing people who would've otherwise been great buddies.

What's the difference between a friend and a gf/bf anyway? Besides being physical.
I want to really connect with someone, on a spiritual level. I think that should come first before sex.

don't burden yourself with the guilt that you didn't develop feelings for these guys. I mean you're not ever obligated to develop certain feelings for anyone and you have every right to deal with the relationship / friendship in the way that you feel is right.

This is all on the immature males that you've been involved with as friends that seemingly have a very one track and limited view of women. To me, this is a statement toward the types of males they are - of which, unfortunately, yes, there are many.

The kicker here is that I would say you should pursue friendships not based on gender but quality of the person and the relationship. Forget whether or not males can be your friends or not. There will always be males that want more than that and if that's the case, move on.

I am not one to stereotype but being a male and of course having known many and knowing the conversations that they have between friends, there is credence to the idea that males are one track minded. I can understand why some women, well maybe many, feel you can't be friends with a male, as a woman because there are a lot of immature males out there. Just be careful about writing us all off due to this fact.

In my experience, women are bossy, controlling and manipulative, that is to say that nearly, if not all, of the women I've been involved with romantically have been that way. I have to battle this kind of thinking and know that even if all the women I knew were like that it's a small fraction of the whole and maybe just maybe, I've been extremely unlucky. I hold out for one that's not this way - and honestly I do know that they are out there too.

I guess in summary, I reiterate don't write off males, but go into these friendships knowing that this risk does exist.

[xiximmxi]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

don't burden yourself with the guilt that you didn't develop feelings for these guys. I mean you're not ever obligated to develop certain feelings for anyone and you have every right to deal with the relationship / friendship in the way that you feel is right.

This is all on the immature males that you've been involved with as friends that seemingly have a very one track and limited view of women. To me, this is a statement toward the types of males they are - of which, unfortunately, yes, there are many.

The kicker here is that I would say you should pursue friendships not based on gender but quality of the person and the relationship. Forget whether or not males can be your friends or not. There will always be males that want more than that and if that's the case, move on.

I am not one to stereotype but being a male and of course having known many and knowing the conversations that they have between friends, there is credence to the idea that males are one track minded. I can understand why some women, well maybe many, feel you can't be friends with a male, as a woman because there are a lot of immature males out there. Just be careful about writing us all off due to this fact.

In my experience, women are bossy, controlling and manipulative, that is to say that nearly, if not all, of the women I've been involved with romantically have been that way. I have to battle this kind of thinking and know that even if all the women I knew were like that it's a small fraction of the whole and maybe just maybe, I've been extremely unlucky. I hold out for one that's not this way - and honestly I do know that they are out there too.

I guess in summary, I reiterate don't write off males, but go into these friendships knowing that this risk does exist.

I know I was pretty black & white with my post/subject and it sounded pretty biased and sexist but I just want to throw this out there -

All of my relationships were with men but I have been with women also; I like the person for who they are and not for their gender.
I'm sure it's not just one gender or the other, just like not everyone in one race is the same, but each individual itself. And I agree with you, there are a lot of selfish and immature people out there.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!

[Peter86]

They can be friends, but it will be trickier for them since most men and women are attracted to the opposite sex, and if you like someone's personality and also find that person physically attractive then there is a great possibility that you will develop feelings for that person.

[Talthybius]

I'd feel betrayed if a female friend of mine had these thoughts about me and went online to post about it, but would not talk to me about this. I would be absolutely gutted and humiliated if I found out.

[Entity06]

Of course they can be just friends. By this logic, gay/lesbian people would have no friends of the same gender and bisexuals would have no friends AT ALL. I'm bisexual and I have friends and acquaintances of both genders, some of whom I even think are technically good looking and attractive but I am not attracted to them. No one is going to be attracted to every single member of the gender they're into, not even to every such person that happens to technically be their type.


I think the problem is that, depending on how conservative/sexist local culture is, too many people are conditioned into not viewing members of the opposite gender as potential platonic friends and as, primarily, other human beings just like them. Men and women aren't all that different, it's society that grooms them differently and that is easy to observe if you look at the differences between how men and women are around the world based on the culture they've been brought up in.


What happens is that we still overly sexualise women to the point where, even if subtly, we perceive women primarily through that lense, with this emphasis on looks and how satisfying they are for straight men to look at or have sex with. We still condition children into liking things and behaving a certain way depending on gender and that creates the divide, not anything else.

Men and women can be friends just as any two humans can be friends, as long as they have similar enough views of the world, shared interests, personalities that fit and complement each other.


Of course it happens that friendship can turn into more if both are attracted to the opposite sex, but that's not because straight/bi men and women can't be platonic friends, it's just that it's always a possibility simply because both have the capacity to feel that towards someone of the opposite gender. Oh and I don't know how others here see it but for me friendship is an essential component of romantic love, I could never fall in love with someone who I don't also want as my friend. Just because there's more to it, it doesn't mean it doesn't also contain friendship.

Originally Posted by xiximmxi

I have a guy friend who I've known since high school.
He moved to California about three years ago and since then we've lost a bit of contact but still text every now and then. We were good friends; he even shared an apartment with my boyfriend at the time after we all graduated.

The problem is - I am no longer with that boyfriend (after five long years), and ever since he has moved to CA he would text me randomly just saying sweet things people say when they haven't seen each other in a while and then eventually it gets to the point where I'm kind of uncomfortable because I feel like he is trying to get out of the "Friend Zone"... and I shut that nonsense down (very subtly, I thought) by saying something about the guy I'm talking to now, or something. Then after that he stops responding to me. And after a couple of months he will randomly message me again & it's like this vicious circle over again. If he was someone I met recently, I'd just assume he is a ****boy and move on, but since I've known him for so long I have hard time judging what is right.

I'm starting to think that he was never really my friend. And that really hurts; I don't open up to a lot of people. I miss our old days when we told each other everything without this weird tension - I just want platonic companionship and I never seem to get that with men. I am so sick of them pretending like they are my friends until they realize I have no intention to **** them!

Do you think women and men can be just friends?

In terms of your guy friend who seems to want more, It sounds like you need to be less subtle and more direct with him.

To answer your question, sure, they CAN be just friends if there is no attraction and romantic feelings harbored towards each other. In my experience, when I've been just friends with a straight guy, he usually has feelings for me. Even in high school, a couple of my close male friends came out to me about their romantic feelings towards me. It happened again recently with a friend of mine. I had to be very direct with him about my own feelings (that I didn't feel that way towards him). I have had the opposite happen too, where I've had feelings for a man who "just wanted to be friends" (or what I like to call, "just wanted his ego stroked"). I end those friendships very quickly now, and they really do not happen often anyways. I personally do MUCH better being friends with gay men.

I don't think there is one universal answer here. I'm sure you will find single men and women who are straight and just good friends. But that hasn't been my experience. Someone else here said that if they're married or in a relationship, it's easier to be just friends and I agree.

[WishfulThinker66]

I admit I am bothered by this and just yesterday such an incident really bothered and shook me. My relationship is pretty solid but I admit I have problems with all the female friends my boyfriend has. Yesterday he ditched lunch at home with me for one with a former co-worker - a woman and I admit that threw me into some depression. I felt really cruddy. Granted she needed some emotional support but to me that made it all the worse that he would be so close to another woman. I have male acquaintances too but never in a million years would I go alone to a lunch or dinner with a man. It just doesn't seem right to me.

[Borderline69]

My beautiful lovely friend( let's call him Travis) is one of my bf. I met him online last year, we are v close and love one another to the moon and back, as besties. We communicate a few times a week mostly by phone , I love him dearly yet there is nothing romantic going on. I give him advice on things happening in life, he does the same
We share pics of our lives, share stories laugh A lot and keep each other company when feeling down. He is married, no looking for a sex partner or to change his current situation, just needs a good listener and non judgmental friend. I seek the same and respect him so much. It works out perfect for us. So yes ag, men and women can be friends . Not just friends, special friends and confidants 😍😍😍😘😘😘😘