[Hiker2019]

Hi all!

This is my first post here and I'm just looking for some unbiased opinions please. I have been in my current relationship for 5 years, 5 years TODAY! I was proposed to and said yes in July of this year. We have had some ups and downs, as all couples do, but I feel that he is definitely more vested in this than I am at this point. I think I have tried to end it with him every year we have been together. We're apart for maybe a day or two, then he always talks his way back in. We have similar interests and have done some really cool stuff together in 5 years. I guess my self doubt comes into play because he is not the best communicator and I don't feel validated when we have conversations. He tends to overpower them and take over, not asking my point of view or my thoughts as often as I would like. He also has an anger issue, with these explosive bursts from very minor events. He has tourettes syndrome, but not that kind, only a jaw tic that he usually gets while driving. Personally, I feel he may also have undiagnosed OCD or may even be on the autism spectrum. He doesn't always do well in social situations, he misses social cues often. This used to be a point of frustration for me because my friends all thought he was an asshole, when in reality, he was just speaking in a flat tone, without bright emotion, which does usually indicate someone is mad to those of us that understand social cues. I guess I don't want to fault him for something that is a part of who he is, but also don't want to be his therapist. I've talked about him going to counseling for some time, and he just won't. He has, however, agreed to couples counseling, but I have yet to find someone on the weekend. He is a kind and compassionate man, and I know he loves me deeply. I love him too, but I feel it's not as deep, so if it's not, that's not how we should get married, right? Any who, I just can't tell what I should do anymore?

[~Christina]

Well obviously you have serious justified questions about staying with him and certainly marriage.

Yes finding couples counseling would be helpful for you both or it might show you he’s just unwilling or unable to make changes in your communication to one another.

Do you see a Therapist yourself??? If not please find one, you need to be able to process the little bits and the big picture so you can make the best choice for yourself ....

Take your time sorting out your situation.

[sarahsweets]

To me you have already explained why he is not good for you. Please do not get married if this is how you feel.

[divine1966]

Do not get married if you have doubts. Also if you want to change something in your partner, relationship is doomed. You should marry someone who is ready made you see what you get, not someone who needs changing. I understand changing where he puts his dirty laundry, which hamper. But not changing who he is. Also if you broke up every year you likely will be doing that going forward, not a good foundation for a marriage

[Rose76]

Whether or not a feature of his personality is his fault or not has nothing to do with whether you should have to live with that feature. It's not a matter of finding fault. It's a matter of deciding if he is sufficiently attractive to you. I wouldn't put much hope in thinking a therapist could refashion him so as to make him more appealing to you. He is who he is.

The anger aspect is what I find particularly concerning. If and when you start a family, life will get more challenging. If he gets upset easily now, wait till there's a needy, fussy child making demands and taking up most of your attention.

On the other hand, you've been content enough to stay with him for 5 years. So, if you called off the marriage, what would you do then? You shouldn't keep stringing him along, if he wants more commitment than you do.

Coming up with psych diagnoses to apply to him doesn't really serve much purpose. If you're thinking those are medical ailments that can be treated and changed, I think you're kidding yourself. Either take him as he is, or consider moving on.

[bpcyclist]

It is hard enough to make a marriage work when you have absolutely zero doubts or questions at the time of the engagement. Marriage is an absolutely enormous amount of work and project over the long haul. There are just so many huge challenges to be faced, hopefully, together. I personally find your reservations very, very worrisome. It seems as though something inside you is trying to speak to you, but you keep putting it aside. If you do that and then get married, you're stuck. My divorce is the single worst experience of my life. It nearly ruined me. You don't want to go through that, believe me.

I'm a big believer in the idea that in these kinds of things, our gut knows what the right thing is. What is yours saying?

[Hiker2019]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I truly appreciate it. You all offer some good insight.
I do see a therapist myself and we have discussed my partner. Sometimes I have left session knowing he's not for me, while other times I couldn't be more happy with our relationship.
I don't want to change him at all. I just think speaking to someone about his triggers, patterns, and responses would be more helpful than coming from me. He is VERY receptive to me tho, when I have discussed my concerns and I have seen light bulb moments from him.
I would say I am sufficiently attracted to him, but my faults are nit picking everything from here to next Tues! That's just what I do! So I have doubts and I can't entirely tell if these doubts are valid or me trying to self sabotage and find ways for it not work, because im scared.
I have to mention too, I'm 37, this would be my first marriage, and i have with no children, but want them so badly. I'm tearing up while writing that part, and also can't help but think he is last chance. This sounds so silly when I write it out but its how I feel right now.

[bpcyclist]

My wife was 41 when we had our only child.

[divine1966]

If your goal is to have children, it absolutely doesn’t mean you must marry this man or in fact any men. In my books it’s certainly better to have a kid alone than with a man who has anger problems, doesn’t listen, overpowers you etc He’ll do the same with his children. Not good.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Whether or not a feature of his personality is his fault or not has nothing to do with whether you should have to live with that feature. It's not a matter of finding fault. It's a matter of deciding if he is sufficiently attractive to you. I wouldn't put much hope in thinking a therapist could refashion him so as to make him more appealing to you. He is who he is.

The anger aspect is what I find particularly concerning. If and when you start a family, life will get more challenging. If he gets upset easily now, wait till there's a needy, fussy child making demands and taking up most of your attention.

On the other hand, you've been content enough to stay with him for 5 years. So, if you called off the marriage, what would you do then? You shouldn't keep stringing him along, if he wants more commitment than you do.

Coming up with psych diagnoses to apply to him doesn't really serve much purpose. If you're thinking those are medical ailments that can be treated and changed, I think you're kidding yourself. Either take him as he is, or consider moving on.

Good point. Whats the purpose of diagnosing?

My husband has Tourette’s syndrome and OCD. He is a wonderful partner. In no shape or form he has any kind of anger problems, or lack of attentiveness or any other relationship killing traits. Having a diagnosis doesn’t explain let alone justify anything. Your guy having Tourette’s is neither here nor there.

People are either good partners or they aren’t. I’ve met people with zero ailments 100% healthy and they sucked as partners. I take my husband over them every day

I also have to say that if a goal is to marry and have children, I see no reason dating for that many years. No one needs to wait 5 years to figure out if they are good life partners. If you both didn't know if you are right for each other for 5 years, it’s obvious this isn’t happily ever after. Otherwise you’d know by now

[Bill3]

You say :

I don't want to change him at all.

But:

I just think speaking to someone about his triggers, patterns, and responses would be more helpful than coming from me.

It sounds like you do want him to change, just not by you.

he is not the best communicator and I don't feel validated when we have conversations. He tends to overpower them and take over, not asking my point of view or my thoughts as often as I would like. He also has an anger issue, with these explosive bursts from very minor events.

I don’t blame you for wanting this to change!

Imagine what life will be like for a child who gets overpowered in conversations, or faces explosive anger over very minor events. Or over any events at all.

Actually you don’t have to imagine it because I can tell you from my experience. What happens is that the child becomes afraid to say or do anything for fear of setting off the explosive anger. The child lives in fear. Is this how you want your child to be raised? Is this how you yourself want to live?

Divine is right. If you want a child you can arrange that without tying yourself and your child to an overpowering, explosive, angry tinder box.

[s4ndm4n2006]

without sounding like I'm entirely trying to disagree with everyone here about their opinions I do see something that I'm not sure has been mentioned here.

You've been with this person 5 yrs. the tone of your descriptions sound a lot like you're defending who he is which is a good thing, it sounds like you do indeed have a lot of respect for him and caring. The question I wonder if you've asked yourself is this - if after 5 yrs and break ups of a day or so, what is it that keeps you coming back? nothing is keeping you in the relationship but you. So not to sound negative but although you say you have reservations, are they really reservations or cold feet? Because as you've described him I do not get the impression that you're manipulated to stay with this person, you sound smart and strong enough to make the judgment yourself, he does not sound abusive or anything esp not to the point you feel trapped, so you have over course of 5 yrs chosen to remain with this guy. That is something I am not sure you're considering.

Here's the other thing I've noticed, in your description, NOTHING in what you've said carries the weight that it seems you place on it n your mind. So he's socially awkward - ok, that could be hard at times but you obviously know why or have an idea why and you actually go out of your way to say this here. You know how autism and ocd or tourettes can affect someone and you don't sound like it bothers you personally - except in social situations and frankly that's not important. how others perceive your partner means squat, you're the one with them not them and image is an elusive object. actual contentment and joy in a relationship is far more important than how the couple looks to outsiders.

So lastly, emotional love is a part of things but I'll be honest, it comes and goes. that he "loves me deeply" and that you don't feel you do is meaningless. because in time even if you committed now, and married, will change and comes and goes. Please, please please do not make any decision on staying or going based on emotion. That he's committed, and clearly caring and other things is more important when deciding on someone to be with for life because frankly, again, feelings will change but values and integrity and commitment are the things that need to be consistent and they last.

[Hiker2019]

Thank you all again!

And thank you s4ndm4n2006!

I feel this is what happens when I try to explain /write out my reservations, with 5 yrs of data, how do I sum it up except with the very most negative things. But yes, they are not good things. And yes, I agree with you all who mentioned those traits around kids, they are not good things. But here's where I guess I failed, HE DOESNT WANT TO ACT THAT WAY EITHER! My point with counseling was to encourage him to learn more about himself and other diagnoses that could be in play... particularly autism with the anger...because knowledge is power.
Yes, we've been together this long already, and what's the point if I just end it all?? Unlike my friends, I've practiced sex safe and have chosen not to have kids until now and yes, it did take me a few years to figure out I wanted them with him. We talked about kids 2 years ago and we're on the same page, but our living situation wasn't until earlier this year. We've gotten through some hard times, including a planned pregnancy which resulted in a miscarriage and he held me up! He was my rock! I couldn't have imagined a different or better partner during that time. I keep coming back because he communicates, in those hard times and times when I'm doubting everything in our relationship, exquisitely. He does get mad in those times too, but it's in an appropriate fashion, he walks away and comes back when he can talk. I'm questioning everything now, again, for 2 reasons; #1- hes fallen back into his ways of talking over me (bc he goes on rants of over analyzing everything) and not taking action, like he said he would, with the counseling. usually I can put my hand on his leg to let him know he's going overboard, but that hasn't been working lately. Then I start to think, 'this is def not the first time we have discussed, so why does he continue to do these things that annoy me?' #2- he is supposed to move in soon and I got super overwhelmed. I have never made it past 5 yrs in any relationship and like I mentioned, we just hit that mark last Friday. I dont think of myself as someone with commitment issues, but I know I am someone who wants it all to be perfect, which I know is soooo unrealistic. How do I know if I have commitment issues? How do I know if he REALLY just isn't the one, or I have to get over my issues? Or how do I get my head on straight to see the good instead of the negatives all the time?

Respectfully inquiring.

[Bill3]

What does your therapist say about whether or not you have commitment issues?

Maybe there are differences of opinion about what is or is not “abusive”. But in my mind someone who is overpowering in conversation, explosive, angry, and unwilling to get help is not a promising candidate for a long-term relationship and parenthood. You don’t want to be his therapist, but it sounds like the bulk of shaping his behavior falls on you and presumably will continue to do so.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by Hiker2019

Thank you all again!

And thank you s4ndm4n2006!

I feel this is what happens when I try to explain /write out my reservations, with 5 yrs of data, how do I sum it up except with the very most negative things. But yes, they are not good things. And yes, I agree with you all who mentioned those traits around kids, they are not good things. But here's where I guess I failed, HE DOESNT WANT TO ACT THAT WAY EITHER! My point with counseling was to encourage him to learn more about himself and other diagnoses that could be in play... particularly autism with the anger...because knowledge is power.
Yes, we've been together this long already, and what's the point if I just end it all?? Unlike my friends, I've practiced sex safe and have chosen not to have kids until now and yes, it did take me a few years to figure out I wanted them with him. We talked about kids 2 years ago and we're on the same page, but our living situation wasn't until earlier this year. We've gotten through some hard times, including a planned pregnancy which resulted in a miscarriage and he held me up! He was my rock! I couldn't have imagined a different or better partner during that time. I keep coming back because he communicates, in those hard times and times when I'm doubting everything in our relationship, exquisitely. He does get mad in those times too, but it's in an appropriate fashion, he walks away and comes back when he can talk. I'm questioning everything now, again, for 2 reasons; #1- hes fallen back into his ways of talking over me (bc he goes on rants of over analyzing everything) and not taking action, like he said he would, with the counseling. usually I can put my hand on his leg to let him know he's going overboard, but that hasn't been working lately. Then I start to think, 'this is def not the first time we have discussed, so why does he continue to do these things that annoy me?' #2- he is supposed to move in soon and I got super overwhelmed. I have never made it past 5 yrs in any relationship and like I mentioned, we just hit that mark last Friday. I dont think of myself as someone with commitment issues, but I know I am someone who wants it all to be perfect, which I know is soooo unrealistic. How do I know if I have commitment issues? How do I know if he REALLY just isn't the one, or I have to get over my issues? Or how do I get my head on straight to see the good instead of the negatives all the time?

Respectfully inquiring.

To be honest, I don't know if there is a commitment issue thing going on so much as the "wanting perfection" thing. Ask yourself, of all the years you've been with him, if you've always wanted it to be perfect how did you justify sticking around up to now? This might help to shed some light on what it is that keeps you in the relationship, meaning at least the things that are positive. You really don't sound clear on the idea of either staying or going but more putting everything under a microscope which by the way no person or relationship can pass that test. You do not sound overly angry, fed up or anxious to move on to me. It sounds more like indecision and re-evaluating pretty much everything. I am not saying that you should stay or go but that this is not a casual relationship nor one that should be kept or thrown away lightly.

Just a note, even in good relationships that work for decades for people there are problems, there are ups and downs and even things that annoy one or the other partner at times. but I am of the opinion that commitment is the foundation for how people look past those things. Commitment, loyalty and love (action, not feeling) are the things that keep relationships together over the moments of indecision and such. Why is it in marriage, we take a vow one to love and cherish through good and bad if it's something that is based on how we feel for the other person at any given moment? because those things change but commitment takes choice and decision to stick around "even though I don't feel like I want to be around you at the moment" ... I dunno if this makes sense but just throwing this out there, neither to make or break your decision but to try and shed some light on things, from my perspective. in the end, whether you stay or go, it is your DECISION and is entirely up to you so do everything you can to make a wise one.

lastly of note, you've said over the 5 yrs you've come to this point, and even broken up for a few days. Seems to me there may be a pattern going on. perhaps a mini vacation away from each other every year to clear up your mind is in order?

[Rose76]

Divine makes a good point about time. Spending 5 years in a relationship and still not considering it a permanent commitment is kind of weird. Are you seriously considering leaving him, if you don't marry him?

[divine1966]

I don’t see it as a commitment issue but rather not being with a right partner. I’ve met many people who I wasn’t interested in getting committed to because they weren’t right people for me. It’s not because I have commitment issue. It’s because I didn’t want to commit to wrong people.

I also don’t see you wanting perfection but rather wanting healthy relationship, which this doesn’t sound like one to me. Also if you wanted perfection, no way you’d stay 5 years with a man who is very far from perfection. You’d be long gone looking for a better match. What does your therapist say about all this?

I am sorry to hear about miscarriage but I find it interesting that you don’t know if you want to stay together and he didn’t propose and you had a lot of issues with him but you planned to have a child with him. What prompted that?

[s4ndm4n2006]

I don't see anything definitive in the description of this whole thread that I can draw any conclusions from myself. i'm not convinced your partner is bad enough to break it off without a lot of thought nor can I say without a doubt he's the one for you but I can say that it doesn't seem to me that you'd be here if you were in a relationship where it was so bad you need to get out, after 5 yrs.

his social issues, it seems to me are not necessarily deal breaking. I think if you were so socially active that it was impeding on your ability to stay in that environment you'd have likely said so but it sounds more like you're apologetic and worried about people's impressions of his behavior on his sake to me.

Lilving with someone that happens to take over in conversations and talk over you is not entirely an uncommon nor deal breaking thing imo either. everyone has flaws and whether or not its something you can live with going forward, is something only you can decide, no one here can judge from your short descriptions whether or not your conversations are so bad that he needs to be sent away. take what you can from the conversations here but I am of the opinion that it's good to take in advice but weigh the source. this source online cannot have a direct line nor view of your relationship so it can't be completely objective, which is why I personally keep the ball in your court and try to help with perception and analysis on your part.

The only take away I hope you get from this thread is, think, and do not act on emotional highs or low but practical rational thinking and analysis. long term what's going to make most sense is acting on the side of practical and logical thought more so than emotions. Note I did not say WITHOUT emotion but more so on the other side.

[nicoleflynn]

. Unfortunately, love isn't enough for a good relationship. All of your concerns are valid; always listen to your gut/inner voice. If he doesn't change, could you see yourself married to him 10-20 years from now?

Explosive bursts of anger would be a terrible way to begin a marriage....He needs counseling on his own to resolve those, if not I would not marry him..

I ignored red flags (controlling, anger, etc) and thought the (now ex) would change; 31 years later, I got a divorce.

[divine1966]

II think at the very least people would live together. It’s unusual to date for that long and apparently plan a child and not at least move in together. I wonder if he actually might be commitment phobic. No desire to marry or live together for that long is unusual. Does he also have doubts about future of this union?

[Hiker2019]

Wow, thanks again all. I did not know what to except from this forum, but I really do think this is helping me by looking at it from all/different perspectives. and I completely understand the source.
It's so difficult to explain, because relationships are COMPLICATED. I can't detail all the ins and outs we've had.
Firstly, my therapist does not see fault with my take on reality, which I was questioning for a bit. Unfortunately I haven't been able to see my therapist to discuss these current concerns. That's a few weeks out still. I feel like I've lost all sense of logic, in a way, and intimate relationships cause me the most distress than any other type or issue in my life. Hell, I've had a boss that was WAAAAY worse than with my current partner. Out of control emotionally abusive and back stabbing.
Anyway, this is where it gets 'weird,' our relationship is nothing close to conventional. We are both free spirits and I really try to live day by day. We did live together for approx 2 yrs (after dating for 1 yr already), and I started feeling kind of similar to how I am now, because we were getting more serious. I started to think about what I wanted that to look like, but couldn't. I eventually decided to move out, so I could process how I live on my own. so I would know what's important to me when I live with a partner, because I had NEVER lived alone before. that was at 35 yo, and I really wanted to see what it was like, before not getting that chance again, I guess. BUT ( again I feel as though I have yo-yo feelings) it was while I was moved out that I realized how much he would be a good life partner. So we discussed this further and agreed we both wanted that. never talking about marriage because it didn't matter. Marriage or no marriage, we knew we would remain so then we started talking about children, knowing I am kind of under some time restraints. Then we went through some heavy ****. he took a few months to think about it, then proposed and now I'm freaking out again.
The negative aspects I wrote about originally in my first post, are NEVER directed to me, but they definitely effect me. He's so good when it counts, when were knee deep in the trenches, but the day-to-day aspects are important too and I feel thats where Im struggling with it all

[Bill3]

I am interested to read that he took a few months to think about it.

Fair is fair: you seem very torn, maybe you too might want a few months (say) to think about it?

[divine1966]

I find it interesting that at age 35 you never lived alone? You were never married and have no kids, so who did you live with until 35? Parents?