Roommate not put into in-patienty treatment

Update: so, my roommate confronted me last night in my guest room that I rent about where her money orders of my rent were. I explained to her calmly that since she was gone all of last week, I just deposited the unpaid rent back into my checking account and Paypal-ed her sister who is her power of attorney. She was MAD (maybe at the fact that I know her sister has POA over her too) but then the Orkin tech came (I had scheduled a 2nd follow-up appointment) and rescued me from it escalating.

Then, I texted her sister about what she did and asked her sister to intervene. Her sister texted back that my roommate doesn't respond to hers (or anyone's phone calls or texts) and asked me to text my roommate to contact her about wiring my roommate the rent money from the past few months. Egads. I then forwarded the text I sent to my roommate, to her sister. So everyone's on the same page.

POSSIBLE WAY OUT: I am going to look at an apartment-available-for-sublease (fully furnished and pet friendly) this Friday. I'd only have to pay $250 for the sublease fee and then next month would take over the rent payments which I can afford on my temp job. Of course, there is the assumption that my application with the landlord will be rejected due to my poor credit score. And no, I have no one willing to co-sign so this is totally hinged on my credit now. I'm hoping it doesn't get rejected. Can you imagine my relief if I get approved? I will be dancing in the streets like the David Bowie/Mick Jagger song.

Maybe considering it's a sub-lease the person sub-leasing won't go into checking your credit history. I will say some prayers for you. Also, if you have to go and first look at this apartment you may get to meet the person sub leasing and if you put on your best face and this person likes you, you may get an ok that way too.

From what you just shared about your room mate, it sounds like even though her sister has POA, she still has found a way to maintain her sense of control. She has figured out that as long as she doesn't seem to be a danger to herself or others she gets to continue to isolate herself in her room the way she has been doing. Apparently she wants to be a hermit and shut everyone out. She clearly must believe that antidepressants can't fix the fact that she is no longer young and the life of the party or in demand to do whatever she had done when she was younger. Her child was probably an ornament and she never could really connect with him, that's sad but it happens. Like in "Mommy Dearest" where Joan Crawford adopted children more as ornaments and never really could connect with them in a meaningful way.

I am sorry Blanche because given what you have shared about yourself having to deal with a person like this must at times be very triggering and unsettling for you. I am glad to hear you continue to be proactive and determined to find your way out of this and forward. What you have been learning a lot lately is how you can't control people like this, the only one you can work on and improve is yourself. In my saying that, I in no way mean to simplify or disrespect how challenging that can be.

Open Eyes the subleaser is an undergraduate student who just graduated and accepted a new job in another state. His lease goes until mid-fall 2020, and he leaves the end of January for his new job. So, he's just a kid. The leasing company's main rental office is conveniently located in the apt. bldg next door to his apt. bldg, so after I go quick tour his apt. I will walk across the street with my rental application and then I have to wait for their screening company to complete their background check (which yes, includes a credit check unfortunately, and prior rental history).

So, I will find out if my application gets accepted hopefully by next Friday. From the photos on his sublease posting, his one bedroom (fully furnished) is quite nice furniture and the unit comes with a dishwasher and also a stacked laundry washer/dryer which is also a bonus.

I feel like this would be the perfect transition out of the current transition I'm living in -- a furnished subleased one bedroom opportunity. It would give me 6 months of peace of mind on his sublease, and at the end of six months, I'd have hopefully found a full-time job, and could renew the lease or look for a new place. But it all hinges on that darn background check company hired by the leasing company who rents out his apartments.

I don't take your observations critically of me, either. It's been a horrible year and a half; caregiving for my elderly mother, now in this forced caregiving situation for a complete stranger who is my roommate until I can find a way to move out sooner than later.

It is extremely triggering and damaging to my mental health. I go to the walk-in counseling center on bad days, and other days just post here or work on my resume or my grad school coursework or watch movies.

She is not my responsibility -- this I know -- so I am not going to even offer to cook her meals at this point. I did tell her I got back from work, and her response was, from behind her door, "Ok. Thank you."

I texted her sister to ask if my roommate responded to her sister's text but haven't heard anything yet. I'm not going to engage my roommate in any conversation unless it has to do with paying her rent, or the mice infestation, or her cat's health/food/litter. I have to take care of myself.

I read online that 45 minutes after doing a creative activity (draw, paint, write, music, etc) one's cortisol levels drop dramatically. So, time to start doing more creative things to keep myself at peace while I try to get out of this horrible, horrible situation.

Yes, my roommate has cleverly created a loophole for herself to avoid going to an inpatient facility, by not acting homicidal or suicidal. Does that mean I still feel safe? Nope. It's like living with my mother after her stroke when she developed dementia.

I didn't feel safe there either because I was taking care of my mother 24/7; she would "sundown" and wander out of her apt. between midnight - 6 a.m. or I'd wake up after hearing her fall off her bed, or she'd fall off her toilet at 3 a.m. and I'd have to call the fire dept. to request a "lift assist" which the firemen who showed up, told me was a common occurrence at my mother's 55+ bldg, where other elderly people live, who'd fall or sundown.

Your description of my roommate similar to Joan Crawford aka "Mommy Dearest" is actually close. Her friend of 40 years told me, that neither my roommate nor her husband had their son tested for autism when he was 3 and started showing autistic behaviors (stimming, scripting which he did when he was here this summer briefly). Her friend is appalled by my roommate's parental neglect, but told me that my roommate's always put herself first, above even her ex-husband.

She's a narcissist who also is supposedly kind-hearted, won't hurt a fly, fights for women's rights. Um, I find everything describing my roommate after "narcissist" hard to believe. Because, if you had a toddler who was rocking, stimming, and scripting, YOU WOULD TAKE HIM TO THE DOCTOR.

But according to my roommate's friend of 40 years, they just ignored her son's behavior (which they still do now). Maybe my roommate's extreme dysthymia (ongoing depression for more than two years....) will never go away, and will morph into hoarding (her basement is a mess already).

She sure has the house for Hollywood parties. She knows lots of famous people and ran/runs in all "the" circles. A few of them stopped by her house this summer whom I met. (I didn't ask for autographs, either.)

Her behavior over the past five-six years is no secret to these "people" I've been told. She has a group of enablers/caretakers who open her mail, bring her food, and take her to appointments (if they are lucky enough to get to get her to leave her house).

I feel sorry for those people. Why do they enable her? She's clearly not doing anything to improve her situation. She and her ex-husband worked in LA for 25 years in "the scene" and she has the emmys on her baby grand piano to show it.

Why do I feel like the narrator from The Great Gatsby living here? But in my novel, Gatsby is an agoraphobic woman with dysthymia who borders on homicidal/suicidal behavior yet so she avoids becoming an inpatient (which would obviously help her; she rejected outpatient treatment accord. to her sister who would have my roommate driven to outpatient appointments, only to call a cab and leave the outpatient hospital/center).

I heard its very common for people with serious mental illness to fall through the cracks of the mental health system for one reason or another It seems that this very well may be true for the woman who was your roommate. A lot of times patients who are involuntarily commited is because of their health insurance. IDK if this is true in her case As for her not keeping jobs a lot of mental health consumers's employment history is really spotty. That's pretty common . One way of combatting this fact are rehab centers called clubhouses. I was a member in West Phila. PA until the local community MH center closed it down. Never found out the reason.

mugwort, what do you mean by "club house" exactly. I've never heard that term used to describe inpatient psychiatric facilities before.

It's good that you are talking about things here and at the walk in. It's very understandable that you worry about your own mental health. It's very unsettling living with a person that is unpredictible and clearly mentally challenged in some way and you did go from your mother becoming more and more mentally challenged to suddenly facing homelessness and now with this mentally disturbed individual. Basically, you have been exposed too much to situations that have created frequent hyper vigilance in you the last year and a half, and actually possibly longer than that.

It can seem like narcissists are constantly popping up and people can begin to be one disappointment after another. However, what you are beginning to recognize is that a lot of people have insecurities and may exhibit some naricissistic symptoms because that's all they know how to do when they face challenges in others or struggle within themselves.

In reading what you share Blanche, I have a feeling that you DO handle a lot of situations fairly well, you have fashioned a suit you put on to protect yourself in different situations. Yet, once you get distance from the situation you need to vent out how poorly the other person behaved where you had to put on that protective suit just so you could get through the situation you faced. You must be approachable if someone who knows this woman you are living with has told you all these things you have shared here.

Do you know why it helps to distance and spend time doing art projects, even just sitting with crayons and coloring in a coloring book? Why art therapy can become therapeutic? It's because when someone engages in being able to sit and create anything on their own that doesn't have to be judged in someway, it gives that person a way to have a sense of control. Having a creative outlet of somekind is always helpful and calming.

A lot of people in performing art's fields experience breakdowns did you know that? Even Dolly Parton who seems to have this cheery warm disposition about her recently shared that she had a breakdown and struggled badly with depression and withdrew for a while. The thing about acting, if that's what this room mate did, is that a person can get used to playing a certain role, it's like being handed a coloring book and slowly getting good about coloring within a preset laid out picture. If something happens and the person suddenly loses that laid out picture/structure they grew so used to living/coloring in, that person can actually fall apart mentally as is the case with this room mate.

It's not surprising other individuals in that field have stopped by in an effort to reach out to her either. I think these individuals in some way can sympathize with how vulnerable a person can be in that field. Yes, it's disturbing and unsettling for you, yet at the same time Blanche, it's also educational. Yes, in a way you are like that man who wrote about Gatsby, very good analogy. Ironically, Gatsby was another person who did not want realism, but instead wanted the magic. Perhaps we are all wanting that in a way, constantly looking for a magic that we can escape to away from realism. Cary Grant said, "Everyone wants to BE Cary Grant, even I want to BE Cary Grant".

Oh, I know, it's very hard to see that when just trying to not be homeless and instead figure out how to be independent and be able to work and support yourself. It's definitely hard to see the reality of that woman's world when you don't have the kind of luxury where you can just hybernate and have others do things FOR you like she is doing. That is like being so very hungry and walking past a busy fancy restaurant and listening to people complain about the service or the food they are eating or just complaining about a lot of nothings while stuffing their faces with rich food in a warm fancy environment.

You got a roof over your head and did not realize WHAT you were getting yourself into right? Well, this environment is so messed up Blanche that these people did not even think about considering your credit history. Actually, they are lucky you are not some crazed dishonest thief or god knows what else. Actually, THEY got lucky with YOU. Did you ever think about that Blanche? Here you are putting a stopper on YOUR door when you could be some crazy that is capable of harming this room mate. That has happened to a young singer/rising star Selena was it where in the choas of her rising career she ended up being killed by this crazy woman assistant who gradually took over and then got stranger and stranger. Actually, Blanche, these people don't even realize your actual value and that you are not the kind of person that would do something bad and you have not gotten very much respect from what you have shared either.

Actually, that is something you might consider sharing in that while you are currently experiencing financial challenges that can reflect in your credit you ARE a person who is honest and is just trying her hardest to get back on her feet, you are certainly not the take and skate kind of person.

She's not an actress, if that's what you mean although your comparison to Mommy Dearest was spot on in terms of the way she treats people esp. her son and ex-husband like ornaments., to make herself look good publicly. When behind closed doors, she's really a train wreck. She worked in Hollywood for 25 years in another capacity than acting, let's just say that. I won't go into the gory details.

I agree with your observation that I've gone from one invalidating situation to another this year that has kept me in a perpetual state of hyper vigilance for sure. But I haven't cracked yet!

And you're right, none of these people around my roommate have acknowledged that I'm actually not a crazy psycho roommate, but a considerate (albeit walking on eggshells all the time) person.

That background screening company doesn't measure people's characters, just their credit score, and rental history so that part of the apartment search is just out of my control. Nothing I can do about it. I'll find out next week if I'm approved for that sublet furnished apartment or not. Hopefully, I will be.

Working in Hollywood and even the fashion industry can be VERY toxic leading to the "Mommy Dearest" type personality or having to deal with them constantly. Another example is Amanda in "Devil Wears Prada". Have you seen that movie? Meryl Streep did an excellent job playing Amanda, nailed some very narcissistic character traits.

If she is around 55 and worked in the Hollywood atmosphere for 25 years, that means she was only about 25 when she got into that environment. That is a lot of often very narcissistic influence and high drama to spend 25 years involved with. Not to mention there is a lot of alcoholism and drug problems in that world as well.

Well yes but if she was already a narcissist, then it must have been a comfortable environment for *her* don't you think? Her FB profile is chock full of her hob knobbing with celebrities at events. I think it was definitely her scene. Not as quick paced here in the Midwest but I've mentioned in my earlier threads where I was in her kitchen when her ex-husband was over, arguing with her about not paying her son's child support to him b/c she has a lot of money. I don't know if she has a drug or alcohol problem because she never leaves her bedroom and keeps her house pitch black, even when I'm there and try to turn other house lights on.

Honestly, I don't know as people can be pretty complex. It's not a black and white easy thing to identify or quickly label. Maybe she was the bread winner and tried to have that ideal family and ideal life and it all just fell apart on her and she gave up and withdrew. Seeing that she is expected to pay child support must mean that she was the main provider and her child and husband were both dependents. Her husband may have even been cheating on her (maybe with a younger woman even) which again would be another hit to her needing to have this ideal life with THE guy that stayed devoted to her.

I have no idea what my roommate is, or what triggered or initiated her ongoing depression for the past 5-6 years. No, it's not an easy thing to identify or quickly label, but there are clues in her behavior for me, since I became her roommate 5 months ago, that lead me to believe she shuts down when life doesn't go her way. And, I am the opposite. When life doesn't go my way, I go into overdrive to try to fix my life.

Tonight I went to look at the sublease furnished apartment and was thoroughly disappointed. First, the entire apt. building reeked...just reeked of cigarette smoke. I have asthma so that was an immediate "nope" for me. But also, the online reviews of the apt mgmt company were TERRIBLE and when I met two of the leasing agents, and saw the interior of the apt. bldg, I suddenly believed the reviews. Slum lords came to mind. No lights in the hallways, broken thermostats, broken washer/dryer units. The student's 1 bedroom was fine but it reeked of cigarette smoke from the the surrounding units of smokers and the hallway.

I felt bad for the student. The final straw was the way the two leasing agents handled the sublease contract (had I gone through with it). They wanted me to pay $250 sub-lease fee (which is actually the student's responsibility), plus his deposit, THEN I learned that the reason the apt was $100 cheaper was because the student was desperate to get someone to take over his lease and was willing to pay the extra $100 himself every month until his lease runs out, while the person who takes over his lease pays the remainder of rent. Um, no thanks. How would I get that in writing if it wasn't part of the original lease. So many red flags with this I had to walk away from it.

Oh ((Blanche)), sorry the apartment was such a disappointment. Doesn't sound at all like anything that can provide you with a "safe" little haven for yourself.

Have you looked to see if anyone might be looking for a house sitter? Sometimes people need someone to just live in their home while they are away for an extended period of time. And if you don't mind animals sometimes people take extrended trips, even travel for business alot and need someone to stay in their home and feed and care for their pets too. Actually, one place you may want to try is to stop and chat is at realtor's offices as they often know people that may have something they may rent out cheap if they find the right person they can feel safe about. Just thinking, nothing ventured nothing gained.

I'm going to avoid house sitting because it's not reliable or stable. I am online looking for more sublease apartment options. I think subleasing will be the best way to get out of my roommate's house because there's no deposit plus one month's rent involved in taking over another tenant's lease. Just the application fee. I already asked my cousin who is a realtor for connections to subleasers he may know, but he didn't know of any.

I came across this article today about a roommate who lived with a roommate who has bipolar disorder and suffered psychotic episodes. I hope that my roommate's depression doesn't progress to the same level.

What It’s Like When Your Roommate Has a Psychotic Episode - VICE

Ugh, I would have moved out way sooner than this person in the story did.

I can relate to developing certain triggers when dealing with a person that acts out in frightening ways. My sister has raged at me several times and there is definitely something wrong with her. Her behaviors have affected me deeply and certain outbursts thrown at me can definitely trigger me. Unfortunately, I had to once again experience her behaving very toxic towards me when I went to visit my parent's home to grieve and find the items I had asked for. Both my parents passed earlier this year and my sister's behaviors were so toxic that trying to just try to have time to say goodbye to both my parents when they were dying was met with her toxic invasions making an already very difficult situation so much worse.

Having to interact with someone who can be unpredictible and in some way mentally ill can most definitely be very unsettling. In all honesty, my sister's often toxic behaviors have traumatized me. I have tried to explain it to others, but I think it's something a person needs to witness in order to understand how triggering/unsettling/upsetting my sister can be. I have noticed people try to avoid her to be honest.

Did you get the stopper for your door?

Sorry to read about how triggering your older sister is for you. I'm sure I trigger my younger sister because our personalities are so incompatible. I hope you have been able to find ways to soothe yourself after the toxic encounters you have with your older sister that help you feel better. It's unfortunate when our family system is affected by toxic family members' behavior. I understand about feeling traumatized because my younger brother's behavior traumatized me to the point where we will always be estranged.

No, the bottom of her guest bedroom door is more than 1 inch from the floor so I assume I won't be able to find a door stopper large enough. The other problem is her cat will yowl and scratch at any door that is closed in my roommate's house -- understandable...since the cat has had to scratch at my roommate's door to be fed for the past 5 to 6 years, I don't blame the cat at all.

So, I leave my door open at night (against my better judgment). I've tried to shut the cat inside with me, but the cat will still yowl and scratch at the door to get out because she's a cat. And cats are more active at night. So, even if i find a door stopper, I may not be able to use it, with the cat being so vocal and noisy.

I do lock my desktop computer when I leave. I forgot to lock it once, and when I came back and opened up the screen, my roommate had been on my computer into my Facebook account. So, I have no privacy and I am not allowed to install a lock on the guest bedroom door per my roommate's sister's orders.

So, I just need to remember to lock my desktop computer screen when I leave in the morning so that my roommate won't be able to access it. I have to pay her December rent today.

I'm dreading the confrontation that will ensue because I am not paying the full rent amount this month - the deal I worked out with my roommate's sister who STILL has not responded to my texts about whether she was able to get in touch with my roommate/her sister about the reduced rent approval.

I'll find out if my roommate goes off on me, that will mean her sister did not in fact, contact her. OR, it could mean my roommate is mad. And if she's mad, well, too bad.

Oh, and the irony a friend in another state has an apartment available for rent but its $1200/month which I can't afford on my own. Or I'd move there like, tomorrow. Oh well.

So, I left the money order on the counter in my roommate's kitchen last night. My bank advised me to call later this week to see if she mobile deposits it. This is so exhausting to deal with. It was still on her kitchen counter this morning, untouched.

And, no new temp jobs on the horizon yet.

This room mate sounds like she doesn't want any responsibility but she also needs to feel SHE has the control. Break downs tend to happen when a person is going along in a pattern of thriving and something happens to them that really impacts whatever their pattern happens to be and they don't know how to recover.

It sounds like this room mate tried very hard to create her own reality as I have mentioned earlier in your thread and she got to a point where she had to face the fact that her own reality was not actually a true reality. This can happen to anyone because a lot of people function based on their own reality and try to fulfill whatever they wanted to achieve. She wanted something to happen in her life, she tried very hard to make some "dream of" come true in her life. She did not get her "dream of" and things got to a point where it broke her down because what she wanted and tried to create failed. She did not get a normal child and her husband failed to fit into this ideal she had also wanted and she was no longer a young individual that could walk away from these disappointments and try again to create this "dream of". So, it devastated her and she broke down and withdrew from all of it. She withdrew and is hiding out in that room in mourning of not having achieved this "dream of" that had been very important to her.

When a person breaks like this, often they genuinely lose their ability to connect with others. And when they have to connect with others, they may only be able to do so in anger or can be so sensitive they can quickly sink into resentment or just want to run and withdraw. A person in this condition doesn't respond well to anyone who tries to push them into being whatever they had been or being functional. A person in this condition doesn't want to "see" any more reality and anything that contributed to whatever they failed to have or achieve.

What this woman needs is for someone to quietly come to her home and spend time with her to help her grieve. She needs a special kind of nurturing presence because she is a broken down hurt scared child in a middle aged body and she is very lost. What she needs is not a presence that constantly "replies" or in any way "demands or instructs" but instead a presence that can respond with "I understand, yes that is sad, yes that is hard, yes it's lonely and scary".

One of the conversations I had with my father that was important and something I needed to get older to a point where I was able to see how fragile a person really is at certain ages was something he needed for many years. I was sitting quietly with him at one of my sister's gatherings, I sat down next to him as he was staring into the fire that was lit in the fireplace. We ended up talking about things he experienced in the war (WWII).

This time however, I looked at him and said "What you experienced was a lot for someone who was really so young and just a boy yet". I made it a point to reach out to "that part of him that was really just a boy still". For the first time he looked back at me, not as my father in his late 80's but that 17 year old boy who needed to experience a presence that was "understanding" of what that time REALLY meant to him. He saw things at such a young age that I could not even imagine experiencing myself when I was that age.

I remember how others, including my sister would reply "yah, yah, I have heard these stories many times" and NONE of the people he sat and talked to had it in them to respond to that "young boy" that had to deal with things most young boys at that age never see or have to JUST somehow when they really don't have the life skills or maturity to understand or deal. In that one conversation I had with him, he finally had a presence that could speak to that lost young boy that spent his life trying to understand and somehow recover from what he saw that had such a big impact on him. I was not looking at my father anymore, but that young boy that needed someone to sit with him and respond the way I had that nite.

When a mass shooting takes place in some high school, it changes everyone that experiences it. It takes away "innocence" and sense of safety that can impact that individual for the rest of their lives. My father was on a ship and got to know a lot of other men his age that were also on that ship. That ship came home from a deployment and for some reason my father was left out of that ship's next tour. That ship was torpedoed and the torpedo hit the compartment he had been in with all these other men. All these men were killed. My father never really got over that, it had haunted him for the rest of his life. In reading about narcissists or individuals that had some strong traits, my father did have a lot of these traits. He tended to be in his own little world a lot and yet he did have some depth to him too. However, his lacks stemmed from never really experiencing another presence that showed him how to see "others" and empathize. Unfortunately, that happens a lot. That's why there is a lot of "hurt people hurting other people" taking place. And, if a person never got it and had to figure out how to function anyway, that person can actually resent seeing anyone else getting something they are not getting themselves.

Two women sharing a roof over their heads both hurting and one can afford to hide out with her heartache and the other one can't and neither of you got your "dream of" either. And neither of you want to have to care about someone else either. You are doing it because you have to and she can afford to withdraw and not care. That's quite a combination you have going there Blanche.

If the temp jobs are not coming up for you, maybe consider taking some job that you can do that you can leave if something better comes up. One place that is often hiring are big chain supermarkets and while that isn't a very glamourous job, at least it's money coming in and being that you are smart you may get to quickly get into some kind of management position. My daughter worked for Stop and Shop for years, and all through college and was training to be manager when she graduated from college and got her first job. She worked two jobs for a while until things got so it just was too much to do these two jobs. However, she actually kept things open when it came to working her corporate job and also doing additional work to generate more income. So, even if you finally do get your masters and find a job, if you work at a supermarket you can also continue to work that job part time along with whatever full time job you finally find. That can boost your financial independence in many positive ways. Now, this is just a suggestion and something that came to mind when I was reflecting on how my daughter made ends meet while going through college which is similar to what you are trying to do.

Open Eyes Thank you for such a thoughtful, well-written response.

Yes, I agree with you that my roommate doesn't want any responsibility (she neglects her own child's basic needs when he was here, for example) for herself, or other people. The pattern you describe is a cycle of addiction.

In my roommate's case, she is addicted to the highs of life (maybe why she could be bipolar, I don't know what her diagnosis is officially) and breaks down and hides out when something interrupts that thriving cycle.

I agree with your observation that she's choosing to grieve and hide because her "dream of" her career and family and the lifestyle that went with that, didn't last.

My mother actually fits that same thrive/break down cycle. After my father died from cancer, my mother chose to break down and stop living her life. She went to her job until her university dept. forcefully retired her (a younger employee there wanted my mother's job, so the director gave it to him, and forced my mother to retire but that's for another thread another time).

I lived with my mother for a while after my father died and she followed the same pattern as my roommate; the entire house was pitch black dark ALL the time, and the only lights on were whatever room I was in.

So, when my roommate started exhibiting this same pattern back at the end of July this year, wow, did that trigger me, in addition to having just finished taking care of my mother after her stroke and development of dementia and then losing the roof over my head, unemployed, b/c I again lived with her and took care of my mother until transitioning her to her nursing home.

I think I need a break from caregiving ANYONE because I need to caregive for myself.

Yes, we are quite the dichotomy living under the same roof. If you apply The Johari Window to my situation, well, it is very interesting to theorize the results since the Johari Window is a communication model about how we see ourselves and others; and how others see us and themselves. Two psychologists created this communication model and business leaders use it a lot. Even school teachers and social workers use it.

My roommate has both the financial means and thriving, extended social and familial network to help her (aka enable, in my opinion) through these repetitive thrive-and-dive (my new term) cycles that she's repeated for the past 5-6 years for the reasons you mention in your posts here (and who knows what other reasons too). Just tonight, a cute (and I mean, CUE-EET) UPS driver (think Blonde, blue eyed, 30s, 6 ft tall -- that's cute to me) dropped off a package addressed to my roommate. It was a 15-pound weighted blanket, gifted to her by of her friends as a way to reach out to help her.

Whereas, I lack both the financial means and thriving, extended social and familial network to help me (not enable, in my opinion) through my own struggle of not achieving my 'dream of' which has been ongoing for me since my 20s. So, about 26 years I've been chasing success with failure behind me. My own family won't help me.

So, you know, that says a lot about how I must present myself to them, or they would choose not to turn away and avoid me when I am struggling. Like, how you describe the way everyone avoids your older sister who you acknowledge is toxic to you and everyone around her. I think I'm toxic -- I must be.

Otherwise, people wouldn't avoid me like the plague. I've been in/out of therapy for years and have never discussed reasons why people think I'm toxic and want to avoid me. So maybe that's an opportunity for growth I need to pursue.

I take responsibility of course, for not having the financial means or the thriving, extended social and familial network to help me through my struggle to find my place (work, social life, etc.).

My roommate and I represent two life contexts through which people either thrive or fail to thrive coping with life's adversities, while actively pursuing opportunities for growth and development.

Yes, there are cycles with addiction so I can see why that comes to mind to you. However, there are also cycles women especially go through every month, hormonal cycles. Some women go through hell when they are going through menopaus and some women have a hard time once their menopaus is over too. If this woman is in her mid fifties and her son is still pretty young yet, she had him late. It's harder having children once you hit early fourties. She was all about herself and her career for a long time and then had to share time with a child? Some women are not parental material and that is even more challenging if her son is on the autism spectrum.

I know for myself I struggled at certain times of the month, that was even more challenging when I developed endometriosis. That got so bad I had to have lazer surgery and they put an implant in my arm to stop my periods so I could heal and that implant completely depleted me of estrogen and I could not even function until I was given horomone treatment and antidepressant to help me feel myself again. I know first hand how horomones can really affect a person's mental health big time. It's not always a conscious decision to withdraw and hybernate.

It sounds like she tried to keep working even though she lost her husband and that is a major life changing thing, especially for older couples. It's not always one's choice to break down and withdraw even though I know it seems like a choice. Change can really take the wind out of the sails for some people.

Something I've always believed (no matter what analogies people throw my way to disprove me) is that mental illness is a not a choice. I joined PC because I have anxiety, which, it was determined, was a maladaptive response to growing up in my family system....BUT...also a biological side effect of anemia and thyroid disease. So, I have always believed that mental illness is not in fact, a disease like cancer or diabetes, but is in fact, a biological response to something happening in the human body. That's another thread for another time (but I know it will be met with silence b/c I haven't run across anyone here who agrees with me).

So, I disagree with you that mental illness is not a choice. My mother CHOSE to give up after my father died. She had a support network of friends and family and colleagues and her children. She had the financial means to survive and pay off her house and move into a 2-bedroom apartment and continue her lifestyle where she took multiple trips per year until her stroke and dementia onset earlier this year.

My roommate chose to give up b/c her "dream of" collapsed, despite the fact that she had the choice to go to therapy with her son, get him diagnosed with the type of autism I believe he has, move out of state back to LA if she wanted to, or WHATEVER. But, she has choices. She just chose the give up. I sound like I lack compassion for my mother and my roommate. I don't. What I do lack is respect for people who CHOOSE to give up.

If mental illness (including anxiety) is not a choice, then, by your definition, I should give up and go be homeless and say "effe it, I'm worthless, have no value b/c I can't find a full-time job." But I don't believe that. I choose to keep trying to find a full-time job. I choose to go to grad school because despite it's lack of a practical application in my life (like an MBA or degree in accounting), I enjoy it. It gives me something to look forward to.

Also I agree with you that hormones can wreak havoc on a person (man or woman) when they are absent or malfunctioning. Esp. menopause and perimenopause or any reproductive-related hormonal disorder. When my progesterone is low, I am more sad than normal, around my cycle. Also, going back to my belief that everything we experience has a biological cause -- vitamin and mineral deficiency can create side effects like anxiety and depression and even psychosis. That's just what I believe. We all believe what we want to believe about mental illness' cause, right? You believe that mental illness isn't a choice. I disagree with you but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion esp. since you've taken the time to discuss my roommate situation with me in my thread to the extent that you have, whereas no one else has. And it has helped me process the situation despite the times we disagree with each other.

Last night, after I posted, my roommate left her bedroom to come into the kitchen and she looked at the money order but said nothing to me about it. I was watching a movie and eating dinner. I didn't offer her any. I think she expected me to b/c I had done that out of fear for the past 5 months. But I set a boundary last night. If she wants to eat something, she has to make her own dinner. Her neighbor also set a boundary (she texted me) and has stopped bringing over dinners for my roommate, since my roommate just let them rot in her refrigerator. I think setting boundaries is necessary with my roommate.

So, she waited for me to offer her some of my dinner but I ignored the silence and just kept watching the movie and eating. She tried to get me to offer her some of my dinner by asking me if I liked it. I didn't take the bait. I just nodded and went back to watching the movie. She then commented, "Oh, I know the screenwriters who wrote that movie." Like that was supposed to impress me or suddenly make me want to offer her some of my food, which she has been eating for 5 months now and never reimbursing me financially for it, fyi. So, I told her sister, if I am going to spend my money on feeding her sister, I won't pay full rent anymore. I think that is totally reasonable.

Anyway, after she saw that I set this "I won't feed you anymore" boundary, she left her kitchen and walked back into her bedroom. She meets all bout 1 of the psychiatric admissions criteria for inpatient treatment, which are the same as an elderly person for admission into a nursing home. The only criteria that's vague is that she is not outwardly homicidal or suicidal. And, since her sister won't file a court petition to have my roommate admitted, the county will continue to release her after a 3-4 day hold in the local hospital's mental health floor. Filing a petition would force the local court to put together a county mental health team to assess my roommate more thoroughly than the county hold psychiatrists. But, her sister won't do it or her mother or ex-husband. So, whether this is menopause, grief of not achieving her "dream of" family/lifestyle, my roommate's made a conscious choice to deal with her life by hiding, b/c she can financially afford to hide.

Lacking the financial means and having difficulty thriving can bring up early childhood fears and frustrations. It sounds like you did not experience a safe and nurturing environment as a child and that family network was not there for you when you were growing and developing. You were abandoned a lot as a child too instead of experiencing a supportive family. You tend to emphasize a distain for "enable". This can begin at a young age when a child is experiencing a sibling getting more attention and nurturing than they are getting. This can occur a lot with the oldest child. Often the oldest child is expected to be responsible and thrive while the younger children experience what appears to the oldest child as "having it easier because they are young yet".

It's not always that way, sometimes the oldest child gets more attention than the younger children. Sometimes the oldest child experiences a stronger bond with the mother/parents and the younger children never really get to experience that same bond. In listening to different members as they share their different challenges and stories here at PC, some have shared how their older sibling got more attention then they did and when they needed important things, they failed to get these things.

I have met some males that experienced an older sister getting pampered and doted on while they faced having to be tough and not getting caring nurturing. And sometimes the eldest can be a boy that gets doted on and pampered and the younger child that is a girl almost gets ignored as though her being a girl means she is worthless. Same thing can happen if the oldest is a girl and she has a younger brother that gets pampered and coddled more than she does where she grows to feel everything revolved around her younger brother. Actually, that is what my older sister did, she doted on her son more, everything revolved around him and that made her older daughter jealous.

My sister hated my older brother (I am the youngest child) from the moment my mother brought him home as a baby. She hated him so much she even tried to kill him (she is two years older than him and four years older than me).

This "thriving and crashing" you describe that may be bipolar? You even considered addiction behavior patterns? This can be something that develops in someone due to the environment they grew up in too.

This has been a struggle for you even longer than 26 years Blanche. You have a lot of anger, and I have to be honest, you have triggered me because sometimes your anger and reactions are similar to my older sister. At one point I did try to respond to you a while back and you reacted the way she reacts. My sister can be very difficult where she tends to need to have everyone see things HER way. And if you offend her she puts you on "ignore".
That is what you chose to do with me.

Now, I know you are not my older sister, yet, it's possible that you have similar grips that she has. When I saw your two recent threads, I did not know if you still had me on ignore, so for some reason I just figured I would post something quick to see if you did still have me on ignore. I think what motivated me was that I can see you are struggling, hurting, frustrated and scared. So, I just decided to reach out to you as for some strange reason Blanche, I do "empathize" and want to help if I can.

I have had to have a lot of therapy because of how my sister behaves towards me. I hate how she has treated me so badly, how she has hurt me and raged at me. Yet, I would never want to see her homeless or lose whatever she has that she cares about. Truth is, what people say about her that they don't like is "she has a bad attitude". Like with her Blanche, I feel that if I say anything you don't agree with or somehow feel offended by, I will be scorned or shut out.

I think you are "trying" though Blanche and you are very alone right now in your life. I can relate to that "alone" feeling and I can relate to the vulnerable "alone" feeling your room mate is experiencing as well. I had my own "dream of" too and like both you and your room mate one of things I wanted MOST in my life was to FEEL SAFE.

The BOTH of you need a presence that is UNDERSTANDING. That is a very hard presence to come by. I am 63 years old and my entire world was invaded and damaged when I was 49 and even though I tried so hard to handle it all, I broke down. There have been times where, like your mother and your room mate, I want everything dark, I want to withdraw and HIDE. Yet, when you talk about how you can't have that luxury and that you are a fighter, I WAS LIKE THAT TOO Blanche.

I can relate to feeling "unsafe" even in one's own home too. I can relate to both you and your room mate. I can even relate to how your room mate has bottles of antidepressants she doesn't take. Drugs often do not fix what is broken in someone. Actually, my older brother sat in the waiting room in the court house and other people were also waiting and my sister kept leaving that waiting room. My brother said "Our father was an alcoholic, he was very controlling and as a result WE ARE ALL BROKEN". He spoke the truth.

Your room mate is hurt and hiding out, she doesn't feed that cat, she is disconnected from her own son and her husband. Her family is at a loss too and your room mate IS A BROKEN PERSON. She may have been nice, may have "played well" with others too. Yet, she missed something and that missing something reared it's ugly head and SHE BROKE.

When someone breaks it can really feel like everyone or a large portion of other people are "narcissists". Also, I noticed how a broken person, someone who suffers from ptsd for example like me, can be so sensitive and emotional that they can be mistaken for a narcissist too. You watched your mother give up. Your mother did not fight for her job, and she was lost without her husband and that can happen even if the husband isn't "all that" either. Was your mother a narcissist? Did her inexperience and lack of knowledge mean she did not "care"? It's not that simple and it's easy to label anyone who fails to "care" somehow as a narcissist.

What I can say about my sister is that she has manipulated and lied and she wanted to punish me. It was my good nature that she always hated because as my mother said to me when it was too late for me to change anything that has turned out to repeatedly traumatize me, "OE, your sister has always been jealous of you since you were very little". I was devastated when she said that. She explained it as "You were always so sweet and caring and kind and your sister could not be that way". Well, I may have been sweet and kind and nice, but, what I have learned about myself is that "I never really felt SAFE". Yet, I think that my sister thought I got what she failed to get. My sister did not really KNOW how hard it really was for me growing up. In fact, my sister has clearly shown me she doesn't even CARE to "understand".

My sister never really knew how to play well with others, she always had to have all the control and that never changed. My sister was four years older than me and she ALWAYS had to be THE BOSS. What she doesn't even realize is that because I did not like that about her, I tried not to play with others like she played. I knew how it felt, so I tended to try not to do that with others. I could play with others who were like her because I did want someone to play with and my sister was a very creative person and I always loved that about her. Yet, I always knew that SHE had to be the boss and that never changed about her. That is exactly how my father was too. In order to play with my father HE had to have all the control. Everything had to be HIS way, and she is just like that, but worse in that she gaslights and manipulates and will even lie if she has to because she doesn't do well unless SHE has the control.

I think a lot of people try to "fix" whatever was missing for them when they were just a child. I think the root of that challenge has a lot to do with wanting to be safe and of course to achieve that person's "dream of".

I was a very creative person, always loved the arts. I brought a painting I did so many years ago that hung on my parents wall until I finally took it down, into therapy. This particular painting was of a seascape and my therapist really liked it and he explained how he likes art that has movement in it which is what my painting had a lot of. This painting was one I did as I was actually learning how to do seascapes. What is special about this painting is that I did not paint it to capture any real seascape, it was completely out of my own mind. I did take private lessons for a while where a woman came to my home. She kept saying how gifted I was, she was emphatic about it and told my parents to make sure to support my art. What I did not realize until I took that painting down and showed it to my therapist was that what she called "gifted" was because of what I could create from my own mind. I remember her giving me homework and how I would forget and end up rushing to do something not long before she came. Most of the time when that happened, I would just come up with something out of my own mind. I had not realized that meant I was gifted.

I used to write poetry, and songs and I was able to create a lot out of my own mind. I never realized that meant I was gifted. I am 63 and I honestly never realized until I explained to my therpist how what he was looking at was completely out of my own mind that that is what this art teacher was trying to point out to me. However, I also remember how my older sister tended to say "you are not very good at this or that". Or how my father would constantly correct me. Also, how when I was learning too, because of all the stress I faced growing up, I feared excelling because I knew it would be too hard to maintain it with all the bad things I kept witnessing.

Blanche, you are certainly not stupid, yet I think one of your biggest problems has been experiencing an "understanding and safe" presence that helped you to really feel safe to "grow and develop where you could create that dream of".

I have met so many different people during my time here at PC and I have seen a lot of people who have talents but they never had that "safe" environment where they could cultivate their special talents.

Wow, Open Eyes, you figured out what therapists over a 20 year period have never been able to. And I thank you for that:

I know deep down that's the exact reason I have not pursued my artistic abilities beyond thinking about them. And I'm 48. I "dream of" pursuing all3 of my artistic interests but I don't because...I can't find a supportive network of like-minded people who would nurture my artistic abilities and let me be part of their artistic community. And I've tried and failed a few times. I even thought of switching graduate programs this time, to an artistic program.

The earliest memory of invalidation I have from my parents is when I asked them for a drum set for Christmas. They gave one to my sister instead, who had zero interest in percussion. When I shared my disappointment and confusion with my parents, my mother quickly invalidated me. They wouldn't let me even take drum lessons at school. Yet, my sister who is younger than me was given every opportunity to pursue her creative and academic interests. She got to attend the middle school she wanted to, the high school and college she chose whereas my parents told me "you're going to this school" and wouldn't support me when I told them I was unhappy at my schools.

So, you're correct Open Eyes. I have a lot of residual disappointment and disbelief over such things that I didn't know how to get support for, from other adults, growing up. I know that's why I am the way I am today. I'm sorry if my responses to PC threads here triggered you the way your older sister does. I did put you on ignore a few times, b/c your responses triggered me (they felt invalidating).

That is cool that you wrote poetry and painted and wrong song lyrics. I think many artistic people like ourselves never realize our "dream of" because we don't grow up in a family system that supports that artistic endeavor, and so we shut our desires down and focus on keeping the peace so that we can prioritize our emotional and physical safety, or the realization of our true purpose. I think a lot of people find themselves in our situation.

Thanks for sharing your story in my thread.

Whatever she is missing, that caused her to break-down, that she doesn't want to address...I can't make that my responsibility to repair. I have to repair myself too. And two women who are, for lack of a better term, grieving their failures under the same roof (in different ways), is not a healthy environment. We can't support each other. It's not a healthy environment for me because I watched my mother simply give up after my father died. And, I'm not built that way. Even before my father died, I responded to emotional, cultural, and environmental blocks by not ignoring them, not pretending they don't exist. And that was not how my family system operated; they wanted to sweep everything under the rug, and I can't live like that. That's why I don't fit in with my siblings or mother. I can't pretend something is ok when it's not. I just need to keep searching for friendships with people who think like I do, who act like I do. I know they're out there. I just need to find them.