[AzulOscuro]

To the mods: This has nothing to do with anyone on PC.

Sometimes, the matter that has to be with human relations is so hard. Even when you might talk with another person and you both could have the same good intentions to fix things up, there are so many factors that play a role. We are all so unique and have experienced the same situation in such a different way that it takes a world to even get positions a little closer.
The hurt pride, the affronts, feelings...could lead us to a point in which even empathic people may find difficult to even take into account that the other person is not wrong or want to damage you or have bad intentions or (s)he is like this or that but that (s)he is only having a different understanding of the same facts.

I want to break this circle. I want to be unattached of my pride, my Ego, my remorse towards some people very close to me. I want to consider their point of view so much that it makes me possible to get out of myself and see things through their eyes.
I think that if there’s someone who can change things, we have to begin to make changes ourselves in the first place.

I don’t know. How do you see it? Am I being very naive?

[divine1966]

I think ability to look at the world through others eyes come with age and experience, it’s maturity process. Look at kids or even teens. They can only see the world through their own eyes simply because they lack maturity. It also helps to expand one’s horizons by exposing yourself to many different experience, things, people, life styles, places. That helps to understand others’ views better

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I think ability to look at the world through others eyes come with age and experience, it’s maturity process. Look at kids or even teens. They can only see the world through their own eyes simply because they lack maturity. It also helps to expand one’s horizons by exposing yourself to many different experience, things, people, life styles, places. That helps to understand others’ views better

I pretty much lacked of these experiences, for obvious reasons, my social anxiety and my depressions.
Yes, I see that my partner who is pretty extrovert and have lots of experience with people, has a great ability to consider the other. No matter how different this other person may be.

I would add another aspect to the things you are already mentioned. Education, or better say the brought up, as it called in the USA. It’s very important that a caretaker teaches a kid empathy towards others. The respect for the other. To realised little by little that you are part of a world with other people.

[divine1966]

Some people are afraid of others: other cultures, races, life styles. Sometimes because of lack of exposure. Like they are literally scared of people who look different because they’ve never been exposed to others. It does start in childhood, it’s important to teach children all that from young age

[AzulOscuro]

I do agree with you a lot. It’s very important kids have to have a good socialisation. And opportunities to be themselves and feel safe enough to be themselves.

I don’t blame my parents. I want to make this clear. My temperament played a main role. I know it. I’m sure. I was the one who was afraid of facing to situations because I felt out of place.

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

To the mods: This has nothing to do with anyone on PC.

Sometimes, the matter that has to be with human relations is so hard. Even when you might talk with another person and you both could have the same good intentions to fix things up, there are so many factors that play a role. We are all so unique and have experienced the same situation in such a different way that it takes a world to even get positions a little closer.
The hurt pride, the affronts, feelings...could lead us to a point in which even empathic people may find difficult to even take into account that the other person is not wrong or want to damage you or have bad intentions or (s)he is like this or that but that (s)he is only having a different understanding of the same facts.

I want to break this circle. I want to be unattached of my pride, my Ego, my remorse towards some people very close to me. I want to consider their point of view so much that it makes me possible to get out of myself and see things through their eyes.
I think that if there’s someone who can change things, we have to begin to make changes ourselves in the first place.

I don’t know. How do you see it? Am I being very naive?

Yeah, I agree that we got to process things for ourselves so we can see more about other people. I personally try to remember that human relationships are complex and that it is normal that it feels so hard sometimes. I've learnt a lot too about what positions other people may have but it is life-long learning. I think that if you and your partner both do this and never stop learning, it helps a lot.

[eskielover]

I have actually enjoyed moving from Los Angeles with millions of people, to a small farming town 2100 miles away. The real fun thing is that I can talk to anyone about almost anything. Also when there are difficulties in relationships, people are so real here that it is easy to work through differences.

Being that I had a career in computer engineering, my close friends are mostly retired career people too but I enjoy hanging out with my friends also involved with horses & farming. There is actually a more diverse group of people that are friendly here than in Los Angeles & it has changed my whole outlook & way I live & enjoy relating to people. I have learned more from many here than I did living in Los Angeles where people more kept to themselves. I love my community & am more involved & know more people here than I ever did before.

Yes, opening doors between people allows us to learn more & they can learn more about us & being down to earth (real people) without masks or ego makes for an amazing environment to live in & actually connect with people at a much more meaningful level.

Growing up I sensed inside that there had to be more to relationships than the superficial stuff I saw my parents experiencing in their life & even in my own marriage. When I moved, it is like the door was thrown wide open but I had to figure out what I was really experiencing after 54 years of life the other way. Once in awhile I find myself trying to correct an old thought/behavior but for the most part after 14 years I have totally adapted to my new wonderful environment & the people here.

I struggle quite often with the people in the barn apartment where I keep my horse on the neighbors farm (no one but them live there) they just couldn't grasp the rules I had for keeping my horse safe up there no matter how many ways I tried to communicate. Talking people who do drugs & that created a challenge of having rules set & helping them out when necessary too. Always interesting when your life interacts with people you wouldn't normally associate with but want to make it work as well as possible. Definitely a new kind of door that opened while being firm with my values while trying to be as gracious as possible in understanding theirs

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Also when there are difficulties in relationships, people are so real here that it is easy to work through differences.

I really liked this line from your post (the rest too but this especially).

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

To the mods: This has nothing to do with anyone on PC.

Sometimes, the matter that has to be with human relations is so hard. Even when you might talk with another person and you both could have the same good intentions to fix things up, there are so many factors that play a role. We are all so unique and have experienced the same situation in such a different way that it takes a world to even get positions a little closer.
The hurt pride, the affronts, feelings...could lead us to a point in which even empathic people may find difficult to even take into account that the other person is not wrong or want to damage you or have bad intentions or (s)he is like this or that but that (s)he is only having a different understanding of the same facts.

I want to break this circle. I want to be unattached of my pride, my Ego, my remorse towards some people very close to me. I want to consider their point of view so much that it makes me possible to get out of myself and see things through their eyes.
I think that if there’s someone who can change things, we have to begin to make changes ourselves in the first place.

I don’t know. How do you see it? Am I being very naive?

Hi Azul, I really do agree with you. I think people often read into things, especially online, context or tone that is not there. They come into things with a preconceived notion, and if they don't hear what they expect to hear, they have a hard time discerning what it is they actually heard as anything other than negative. In my recovery from trauma journey I experienced this as well, and it took some time to really slow my responses and read/listen to what the other person was saying and take it on face value.

When we read into things and don't simply take it as face value, we are either trying to mind read or put words in people's mouths. There's a saying "what other people think of me is none of my business." ANd I once had a client apologize because she sends very short messages and she didn't want me to think she was mad. My response was that I expect her to tell me if she's mad, and I'm not going to waste time reading into a quick message. She really liked that response and appreciated it.

I think we spend too much time assuming what someone else meant instead of just talking it out calmly to understand their viewpoint.

[poshgirl]

"I think we spend too much time assuming what someone else meant instead of just talking it out calmly to understand their viewpoint".

Seesaw, great comment! A former work colleague had a good way to explain the perils of assumption. "Assume - makes an *** of u and me". How true!

Who we are isn't always because of how we were brought up, although it can be a large contributing factor. There are plenty of other influences on our personalities, actions, beliefs. Often it's assumed (that word again) by family members that we will be exactly as they are in behaviour, ego, self esteem, negative outlook. Described as family traits. The positive ones are good to have, the negative can either be accepted or rejected. Alas, sometimes just calmly discussing another's viewpoint doesn't give positive results.

As we become adults, we often question unacceptable behaviours especially if they emanate from family, partner or a good friend. We may then have to make a difficult decision on which path to take. We are individuals, everyone else is taken.

I don't know why there are three *** in the above explanation of assume. It's meant to describe an animal similar to a donkey, often portrayed as being stupid.

[Open Eyes]

I think it’s important to understand the difference between being supportive and being an enabler.

[MickeyCheeky]

i agree with the other wise and wonderful posters about being a matter of age and experience perhaps. i don't think that what you're writing is naive at all, in fact i think that is something wise and wonderful that we should remember more often, Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @AzulOscuro, your Family, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by poshgirl

A former work colleague had a good way to explain the perils of assumption. "Assume - makes an *** of u and me". How true!

Who we are isn't always because of how we were brought up, although it can be a large contributing factor. There are plenty of other influences on our personalities, actions, beliefs. Often it's assumed (that word again) by family members that we will be exactly as they are in behaviour, ego, self esteem, negative outlook. Described as family traits. The positive ones are good to have, the negative can either be accepted or rejected. Alas, sometimes just calmly discussing another's viewpoint doesn't give positive results.

As we become adults, we often question unacceptable behaviours especially if they emanate from family, partner or a good friend. We may then have to make a difficult decision on which path to take. We are individuals, everyone else is taken.

I don't know if assumptions are ever made consciously by people. Everyone operates from templates, schemas, stereotypes, etc. from their previous experiences. It's natural if these sometimes don't match the actual situation/what the other person had in mind/their actual intention or attitude. I don't think anyone exists who always avoids mistakes like that. Mindreading isn't humanly possible anyway. If in doubt, ask for clarification. Or if the other person signals to you that something is off with your assumptions of them. This can be part of calmly talking it out for sure. Once it's clear there is a need to talk something out, then I personally always want to keep it level-headed and keep boundaries and so I always want to talk it out one on one because public arguing is guaranteed to make things worse, make emotions run away and create drama and more misunderstandings. Or in a personal, close relationship I like it if there is time to think things through, to get our minds relaxed and our emotions processed.

Also, the assumptions people make, there are neutral and less neutral ones to me personally. Neutral ones are easier to sort out. But for example, sometimes people assume that you have a bad intention or attitude for no reason, and I really just don't like that kind of assumption and quick judgment. I just like to talk it out drama free instead. Probably because I had some bad relationships where people liked to try and manipulate me with that (but then it's no longer even just an assumption, then it's called a manipulation rather than a mistaken assumption). Though luckily, most people do not do it to manipulate you, in many cases this kind of assumption can just be the result of a bad mood or from a trigger experienced by the other person, etc.

You also mention questioning unacceptable behaviours. I read this once: what we see as unacceptable behaviour is often when it breaks - or seems to break - an unsaid rule of our own. We are responsible for making the rule known to others before assuming (!) that they already know or should know about this rule. I really liked that idea. And, we sometimes have to get aware of the rule ourselves first before we can even communicate it to others.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by poshgirl

"I think we spend too much time assuming what someone else meant instead of just talking it out calmly to understand their viewpoint".


Seesaw, great comment! A former work colleague had a good way to explain the perils of assumption. "Assume - makes an *** of u and me". How true!


Who we are isn't always because of how we were brought up, although it can be a large contributing factor. There are plenty of other influences on our personalities, actions, beliefs. Often it's assumed (that word again) by family members that we will be exactly as they are in behaviour, ego, self esteem, negative outlook. Described as family traits. The positive ones are good to have, the negative can either be accepted or rejected. Alas, sometimes just calmly discussing another's viewpoint doesn't give positive results.


As we become adults, we often question unacceptable behaviours especially if they emanate from family, partner or a good friend. We may then have to make a difficult decision on which path to take. We are individuals, everyone else is taken.


I don't know why there are three *** in the above explanation of assume. It's meant to describe an animal similar to a donkey, often portrayed as being stupid.

Thanks, poshgirl. I think it's really important to be able to openly and publicly discuss disagreement and resolve conflict. So many of us, including myself, grew up in trauma filled environments where there was zero transparency and people used "private discussion" as a way to abuse. Certainly there are times to discuss things privately, of cours, however that doesn't mean that all disagreement must be behind closed doors. Open discussion is more likely to breed open understanding and honesty.

I had a client who said numerous things to me privately then when we were in front of the board would say different things. At one point he actually breached ethical standards, and I decided it was time for these private discussions to be open discussions because he was abusing his position on the board. There are times when things need to be discussed openly and honestly, and I think those times are more often than not.

I hope I'm not on too much of a tangent. The title of the thread is Open Doors, lol.


Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[eskielover]

I grew up in a family that didn't talk behind or in front of doors. Dang, growing up it was like this kid had to assume everything. Probably why I assumed a lot of things in my life until I learned better even in my marriage

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I have actually enjoyed moving from Los Angeles with millions of people, to a small farming town 2100 miles away. The real fun thing is that I can talk to anyone about almost anything. Also when there are difficulties in relationships, people are so real here that it is easy to work through differences.

Being that I had a career in computer engineering, my close friends are mostly retired career people too but I enjoy hanging out with my friends also involved with horses & farming. There is actually a more diverse group of people that are friendly here than in Los Angeles & it has changed my whole outlook & way I live & enjoy relating to people. I have learned more from many here than I did living in Los Angeles where people more kept to themselves. I love my community & am more involved & know more people here than I ever did before.

Yes, opening doors between people allows us to learn more & they can learn more about us & being down to earth (real people) without masks or ego makes for an amazing environment to live in & actually connect with people at a much more meaningful level.

Growing up I sensed inside that there had to be more to relationships than the superficial stuff I saw my parents experiencing in their life & even in my own marriage. When I moved, it is like the door was thrown wide open but I had to figure out what I was really experiencing after 54 years of life the other way. Once in awhile I find myself trying to correct an old thought/behavior but for the most part after 14 years I have totally adapted to my new wonderful environment & the people here.

I struggle quite often with the people in the barn apartment where I keep my horse on the neighbors farm (no one but them live there) they just couldn't grasp the rules I had for keeping my horse safe up there no matter how many ways I tried to communicate. Talking people who do drugs & that created a challenge of having rules set & helping them out when necessary too. Always interesting when your life interacts with people you wouldn't normally associate with but want to make it work as well as possible. Definitely a new kind of door that opened while being firm with my values while trying to be as gracious as possible in understanding theirs

Interesting point.

I lived (lived into adulthood and then moved, so do not mean “visited”) on two continents. Some cultural differences aside people are mostly all the same everywhere. Especially if one takes time and effort to get to know people. Amazing actually how we are all not that different.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Interesting point.

I lived (lived into adulthood and then moved, so do not mean “visited”) on two continents. Some cultural differences aside people are mostly all the same everywhere. Especially if one takes time and effort to get to know people. Amazing actually how we are all not that different.

I think for me it was like I got lost in the millions of people in Los Angeles even though I was involved in career, sports, church.....being involved though did not create close bonds or friendships there. It might have been because I never experienced that kind of closeness around me growing up. But in the small rural town area of 8000, it seems everyone is more friendly & I felt safe really getting to know people & truly connecting with them. Some more than others but everyone does mostly get along very well here

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I think for me it was like I got lost in the millions of people in Los Angeles even though I was involved in career, sports, church.....being involved though did not create close bonds or friendships there. It might have been because I never experienced that kind of closeness around me growing up. But in the small rural town area of 8000, it seems everyone is more friendly & I felt safe really getting to know people & truly connecting with them. Some more than others but everyone does mostly get along very well here

I agree that big cities/rural areas do have some differences. I always live in large cities or big metro areas. My husband grew up and lived in tiny towns, in the middle of nowhere so to speak. We have some good laughs about it teasing each other. Life styles do differ. But then again people learn and adjust. I feel that I fit right in mostly everywhere

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I think for me it was like I got lost in the millions of people in Los Angeles even though I was involved in career, sports, church.....being involved though did not create close bonds or friendships there. It might have been because I never experienced that kind of closeness around me growing up. But in the small rural town area of 8000, it seems everyone is more friendly & I felt safe really getting to know people & truly connecting with them. Some more than others but everyone does mostly get along very well here

I'm very urban by default because I grew up in a city but that just sounds really nice to me. That's what I started really looking for with people a few years ago - feeling good and connecting like that. Where they also do feel real to me like you said earlier. I'm still thinking about what makes things to be like that. That realness. I think safety, trust, not feeling like having to guess at intentions and attitudes, just no overcomplicating of things, people overall just knowing it's all okay and getting along with each other, that's what makes things really flow like that. Also what you said about no masks earlier, I think, I liked that too for this. I eventually got to know a few people like that where I can feel that way with them in a closer relationship, but not with most people beyond a point. Maybe because of the urban living environment, I don't know. But that's enough for me, and my goal is just that, not more. That really relates for me to the thread's original post too. In my experience, if I can have that "sync" with people due to having felt the safety and trust and real "sync" with them for long enough, it all somehow having a really objective grounding in reality, so to speak, all that realness, then I don't even have to try too hard to see what the other person really meant, and they don't have to try too hard either and it just feels good overall. It's harder to do online or when there's no sense of safety. Easier when there are many shared and good, positive experiences in real life.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by Alive99

I'm very urban by default because I grew up in a city but that just sounds really nice to me. That's what I started really looking for with people a few years ago - feeling good and connecting like that. Where they also do feel real to me like you said earlier. I'm still thinking about what makes things to be like that. That realness. I think safety, trust, not feeling like having to guess at intentions and attitudes, just no overcomplicating of things, people overall just knowing it's all okay and getting along with each other, that's what makes things really flow like that. Also what you said about no masks earlier, I think, I liked that too for this. I eventually got to know a few people like that where I can feel that way with them in a closer relationship, but not with most people beyond a point. Maybe because of the urban living environment, I don't know. But that's enough for me, and my goal is just that, not more. That really relates for me to the thread's original post too. In my experience, if I can have that "sync" with people due to having felt the safety and trust and real "sync" with them for long enough, it all somehow having a really objective grounding in reality, so to speak, all that realness, then I don't even have to try too hard to see what the other person really meant, and they don't have to try too hard either and it just feels good overall. It's harder to do online or when there's no sense of safety. Easier when there are many shared and good, positive experiences in real life.

I moved to this state & town not knowing anyone & bought my little farm in the country. I wasn't sure if they would accept outsiders or not but actually I have found many who have come here from Calif & everyone was so warm & welcoming & as I met people, they all included me in activities mostly starting in our local horse community. The 2nd summer after moving here there was a bad accident on the road across from my farm. I was first on the seen to get rescue to them & I rescued the dog that had been injured. So many in the town collected money to help me pay the vet bill & I fostered the dog for months until his owner was out of the hospital. The community also came together when we re used 3 abused stallions. I helped closely with their care & got to know many of of the people in government in the town. I put myself out there & then when I felt the warm welcoming from those here it made it much easier to put myself out there more. I do have a group of friends that are more like family to me than my family ever was & for the first time in my life I truly feel like I am home.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I have actually enjoyed moving from Los Angeles with millions of people, to a small farming town 2100 miles away. The real fun thing is that I can talk to anyone about almost anything. Also when there are difficulties in relationships, people are so real here that it is easy to work through differences.

Being that I had a career in computer engineering, my close friends are mostly retired career people too but I enjoy hanging out with my friends also involved with horses & farming. There is actually a more diverse group of people that are friendly here than in Los Angeles & it has changed my whole outlook & way I live & enjoy relating to people. I have learned more from many here than I did living in Los Angeles where people more kept to themselves. I love my community & am more involved & know more people here than I ever did before.

Yes, opening doors between people allows us to learn more & they can learn more about us & being down to earth (real people) without masks or ego makes for an amazing environment to live in & actually connect with people at a much more meaningful level.

Growing up I sensed inside that there had to be more to relationships than the superficial stuff I saw my parents experiencing in their life & even in my own marriage. When I moved, it is like the door was thrown wide open but I had to figure out what I was really experiencing after 54 years of life the other way. Once in awhile I find myself trying to correct an old thought/behavior but for the most part after 14 years I have totally adapted to my new wonderful environment & the people here.

I struggle quite often with the people in the barn apartment where I keep my horse on the neighbors farm (no one but them live there) they just couldn't grasp the rules I had for keeping my horse safe up there no matter how many ways I tried to communicate. Talking people who do drugs & that created a challenge of having rules set & helping them out when necessary too. Always interesting when your life interacts with people you wouldn't normally associate with but want to make it work as well as possible. Definitely a new kind of door that opened while being firm with my values while trying to be as gracious as possible in understanding theirs

It's always ironic for me to hear you talk about Los Angeles, knowing that I moved away from here and then moved back because Los Angeles is just my city. I made good lifelong friends here, I found a community here when I became a sustainable streets advocate and was a road cyclist. I have found another community with the dog agility community. I enjoy being part of the scientific community here too.

I also found that coming back to LA was good for my mental health in many ways. I love the mountains and the snow, and you know I lived in cold climates. I feel a little bit more like I am a nomad, and just LA is kind of my home base.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by seesaw

It's always ironic for me to hear you talk about Los Angeles, knowing that I moved away from here and then moved back because Los Angeles is just my city. I made good lifelong friends here, I found a community here when I became a sustainable streets advocate and was a road cyclist. I have found another community with the dog agility community. I enjoy being part of the scientific community here too.

I also found that coming back to LA was good for my mental health in many ways. I love the mountains and the snow, and you know I lived in cold climates. I feel a little bit more like I am a nomad, and just LA is kind of my home base.

It is interesting how we all have different experiences in the same locations. Both the music community & the horse environment I found to be very clicking in Calif. They tolerated but didn't truly welcome. I did lots of dog showing there too & while they kinda welcomed new people, they were very clicking too. I never felt like I fit in anywhere even though I was competent.

It is a good thing this country is big with diverse offerings for everyone's own taste & personalities & we are not trapped being stuck where we don't feel comfortable

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

It is interesting how we all have different experiences in the same locations. Both the music community & the horse environment I found to be very clicking in Calif. They tolerated but didn't truly welcome. I did lots of dog showing there too & while they kinda welcomed new people, they were very clicking too. I never felt like I fit in anywhere even though I was competent.

It is a good thing this country is big with diverse offerings for everyone's own taste & personalities & we are not trapped being stuck where we don't feel comfortable

I'm actually considering buying property back in NC and relocating my business there, but coming to LA via AirBnB for long period of the year. Mostly because I want to be near my folks. I have moved so much in my life, I actually think I'm craving the nomad life.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I'm actually considering buying property back in NC and relocating my business there, but coming to LA via AirBnB for long period of the year. Mostly because I want to be near my folks. I have moved so much in my life, I actually think I'm craving the nomad life.

I had that nomad feeling till I settled here. Now I am just happy where I am. I was always searching for the place that felt like home. I got the small town bug vacationing to our condo in Jackson Hole every year. Met lots of different people but the town community feel was what I was seeking. I had felt it more every summer I spent with my grandparents in Topeka Kansas growing up but that also may have been because I was away from my dad. Growing up, it seemed like people never included my parents into anything at church but it was my dad's personality even though my parents were sure it was their economic status. Shoot, even I was embarrassed to be around my dad. Think growing up being in an outsider family was part of my issues there whether it was real when I got older or not, it was kinda just the feel I had developed over the years

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by Alive99

Yeah, I agree that we got to process things for ourselves so we can see more about other people. I personally try to remember that human relationships are complex and that it is normal that it feels so hard sometimes. I've learnt a lot too about what positions other people may have but it is life-long learning. I think that if you and your partner both do this and never stop learning, it helps a lot.

Thank you.
I have also learnt a lot. Well...the right words should be that I had to learn a lot. lol! I have been so focussed on my mental issues, my own character that I have to thank to people like my parents, friends, partner, psychologists who helped me to see things in a different way. Being more open and sympathetic.
I’m afraid that not so fast as it should have been.

Experiences and maturity as Divine says are keys and I’m afraid that I haven’t been very (to say the least) advance at it.