Stuck

It really bothers me that he said I’m a waste of breath. That means someone’s life doesn’t matter. I wonder if he has violent thoughts about me. He did go inpatient for those types of thoughts.

I told him this morning it’s makes me very uncomfortable that he said that to me. He was very dismissive acting like im being ridiculous. Then I’m trying to explain how that’s a bad comment. As if it’s not obvious!! I said if he is having violent thoughts I want him to get help and I don’t want to be in a dangerous situation.

I’ve suspected that he thinks making me a cup of coffee or mowing the lawn makes up for everything else. I was right. He said to convince me that I’m ridiculous “the first thing I did this morning is make you a cup of coffee.”

I said emphatically “that doesn’t make up for it! That doesn’t make up for it!”

He continued out the door to buy cheese.

He starts a new job next week (where he’ll make quite a bit more money than me), so I think he is more full of himself than usual, which displays as aggression.

Ok so let him work and get paid well, hope he can keep this job so he can pay bills. Separate yourself from him and don’t poke the bear as it just leads to him saying more bad things.

When someone is toxic, they will put you down when you call them out if you pay attention any positives are really for his own ego and not because he actually cares.

It’s time to accept that he is not going to be the person who genuinely cares about and respects you.

Actually a lot of divorces take place in you age group of early forties. You deserve some happiness in your life.

Thank you. I avoid him as much as possible.

As you start seeing the reality you will experience anger. There will be times you will be tempted to call him out more and all you will be doing is poking the bear.

People who depend on drugs tend to have narcissistic traits where they are looking for some way to fill a void in themselves. It can get so they will do anything to fill that void including playing the victim. They often have trouble with employment going from one job to another. When they can’t perform or have things go their way they end up causing problems at work and end up losing their job. From what you share your husband has these patterns that cause problems with his work. Yet he exhibits these same patterns with you.

Can you see this?

Yes I see the patterns. He was actively doing wrong (about the dog) and I asked him to stop, he stopped but said he wasn’t doing the wrong thing. That’s when I said that’s lying because I saw him with my own eyes. I was annoyed being told I’m not seeing what I’m seeing. Yes that’s his pattern, sometimes it’s important enough to point it out. The fantasy is that something will click in him and he’ll stop these behaviors. I’ve separated him from his behaviors so often, but now that he has so little regular behavior, it seems one

Sounds like he is gaslighting you.

Yes he does that.

Disordered people do that in order to protect their illusions so in essence they are really gaslighting themselves. Reality and truth is what they fear.

Actually, it’s way to escape like drug use. Also a tendency to claim more skills then actually exist which is another common reason for job losses.

Yes he is hiding from a lot of feelings, even though he expresses a lot of feelings, too. He definitely has illusions and fiercely protects them. He expects you to agree wholeheartedly and can’t tolerate doubts, details, or questions being pointed out. I again and again support his ventures, only trying to stop things/ideas that are way way too much.

He’s done dangerous things in this type of way here and there. For example maybe a decade ago putting the smoking, cooking barbecue in the back of the van and driving across town 20 mins. I said no it’s dangerous and pointless, he said I’m stupid or I think he’s stupid and I worry about nothing. So I drove separately with the kids and worried the whole way completely confused by reality and not understanding what he is thinking and doing. He pushes the limits for no reason, like he just likes to create chaos. He has great work skills so it’s easy for him to get a job. He is intolerant and then rude, and then aggressive, then gets fired. He crosses the line he can’t come back from, and seems blindsided when he gets fired. He really believes in his ideas to a fault.

It sounds like when he gets triggered he experiences varying degrees of anger. One therapy that may help him is DBT. This kind of therapy helps a person slowly identify what different emotions are so they can slowly understand themselves better and work on slowly building skills to manage these emotions. Males especially tend to experience anger more because they are often raised and taught they are weak if they get emotional.

Your husband will continue to face challenges until he develops better social skills verses reacting with resentments and anger. It sounds like he is so sensitive that people end up walking on eggshells around him.

It isn’t just you that struggles to relate and interact with him, it’s probably everyone.

It seems that you continue focusing on what he does or doesn’t do or feels or doesn’t feel or needs or doesn’t need or what disorder he might or might not have (ton of stuff appears to be just a speculation and wild guess on what he needs to do in order to improve etc)

Not saying you should stop caring but longer he continues being the entire focus of your existence and main subject of your thoughts, longer you will be stuck and live in misery. The way it goes you will be 80 and still guessing what disorders he might have and what type of therapy he might need. Having your entire existence wrapped up around a man is not healthy even in the happiest of marriages. Sometimes people are hyper focused on real or potential or imaginary disorders of others because it distracts from focusing on their own life and facing the reality. Take focus of him for a minute

You cannot fix other people or control what they need to do. You can only control yourself. Focus on improving your life and your kids’.

Thanks divine. His doctors direct those things. I only say the diagnosis that they gave him, and repeat the plan they wrote with him, although I know it’s not a perfect science. I did ask him last week if he was being honest with his doctor about how things are going- he then contacted his doc and they upped his medication based on whatever they talked about, and rescheduled his appts sooner since now they know he will be losing insurance. They wrote him three months prescription to get through the period when he will have no insurance. It’s happened before where he let that lapse. It’s traumatic going through someone suddenly going off medication and the chaos it caused. It’s happened at least twice over the last four years.

I guess it seems that all I think about is him but it’s not the case. I focus on my daughter, my job, my home, and I’ve been having counseling twice a week. I socialize here and there, and engage in hobbies here and there, I will be starting weekend art classes soon. I like to get out and do things, he doesn’t, but that doesn’t stop me from going.

I’m sorting through how to make this big decision that apparently would be easy for others to make. Between the way I was raised, and the way the relationship progressed, I believed it was impossible to leave him. I constantly looked for the silver lining until a few years ago when I realized that was not proper thinking on my part and I was exhausted by it. I don’t invent disorders for him to avoid looking at me. I figured I was doing something wrong, having too high of expectations, or thinking I am just collateral damage of his anger at others in his past (which he talked about very regularly). I didn’t recognize my own needs, which was a huge problem. I was caught up reacting to things that were happening. Once I realized I am important and I can trust myself, then I started having better boundaries.

I don’t think I properly process some things due to my past, and I need to work through things because of that. I can be manipulated through shaming. I shut down when people are angry. Since I have these issues, I am more empathetic to others who have such issues.

I know that I can’t fix or control others. I’m working on believing deep down that it would be okay, right, or safe to leave him. I know I can make a decision (which I guess would be divorce action) without working out all the details and kinks in my mind and heart first, but then I’m facing sizable fear without the advantage of feeling really great about it.

It’s easier to say keep enjoying the house we’ve worked on and worked for, let him enjoy it, keep the main parts of the home neutral and healthy as possible. Let his chaos be contained in one area. Keep my boundaries strong. Promote healthy space for daughter to develop and thrive. Keep repairing the house until it’s presentable again (metaphorically and tangibly). But it’s so much work, perhaps more work than resources available and may always be less than ideal, so it also makes sense to start over.

I would urge you to beware of thinking of your husband's behavior as mainly a "medical" issue.

It is the trend now to medicalize problems of living and to medicalize problems of human behavior. This, I believe, leads many down pathways that go round in circles forever to no good destination. The medical establishment is never going to solve all problems of human difficulty. Not everything that is wrong with your husband is a "sickness." If you see him as mainly a sick man, in need of medical care, you are blind to a huge piece of the picture. Good character was never formed in him. There are no medical "professionals" who have any more power to change that than you, me or the postman.

I don't doubt that there is a sad story behind why your husband failed to develop into a mature, honorable man. I'm prepared to accept that it may not be his fault that he is what he is. I feel compassion for his failure to receive growing up what he needed. For whatever set of reasons, he has turned out the way he has.

Try to understand that medical help will never solve his most basic problem, which is a malformation of his character - a failure to develop good values. He is who he is. You cannot love him into being someone other than who he is.

Possibly, various forms of treatment and rehab, where he gets loads of attention - if that could be found - might lead him to alter some of his behavior superficially. He might be capable of learning some more effective strategy for handling this or that stressor. That kind of change, however, would be no more than skin deep. Deep down, he has deplorable attitudes toward other human beings. At his age, those attitudes are permanent.

You write with intelligence. At times, you identify the problem with insight. In one of your posts, the word, "jerk," got put down. The word may sound uncharitable, but that don't mean it's not valid.

It’s good that you continue to do things for yourself. The weekend art classes sound good 😉

Keep investing in yourself😉

It’s not easy to leave at all! I don’t know who are those others for him it’s easy. I don’t know if you need to leave but I do know you can’t fix him. Good for you to have hobbies, work, pursue interests and focus on stuff you can control. It’s a healthy way to live.

Thanks rose, you’ve helped me through this very rough time. It is mental health no doubt. it’s not his fault, and it’s not mine. He has to deal with it. I have some range of what I have to deal with. I couldn’t leave him when he was so vulnerable. He wasn’t just vulnerable, he was volatile. He’s improved..same behaviors but less intense. His character is much much more good than bad. He can act very nasty when he feels wronged. Thats his character flaw—his desire for revenge. I guess because he didn’t get justice so he grapples with vengeance. His vengeance is most often misplaced. This makes him a massive pain in the___.

I just have to keep going as judiciously as possible.

It’s not easy. I wanted happily ever after. I want the good times, like snuggling on the waterfront watching our kids play and feeling great satisfaction together. Like talking happily about the same subject and laughing. Being silly together. Talking deep. I’m sure those things all happened so many times, but it’s been so long.

It seems my unconscious is trying to remind me of the very worst times. I think I’m trying to chip away at the layers I’ve been burying my true feeling under.

Hi,
It seems you have love for him so that is something better than what many in these problems are willing to admit. Big mistake to tell your spouse you don't love him when you do. It is common if we are talking about frequency but for men, they take you serious and believe you. So, thanks for being a decent example.. I would caution you on engaging your daughter in negative dialogue about your husband. It is easy for the children to see it easy and if you load your decision on her it won't go well. I am also surprised you aren't swayed by the serpent's advice - it is typical and soliciting negative advice is what it might seem you are doing as it isn't them who has to deal with your decision. "I'm sorry you're in a failed marriage" is a leading statement, for example.

If you are serious about your marriage then you have to be responsible only for your part of the failure and nothing more. Judgment coming from outside your marriage is heavy and it isn't helpful to get a second baseman who is a switch hitter for the competition of heavy. Sounds like you have an idea of problems he has to work on but like I said he is probably a big boy and if you address your side of the relationship he might find a reason to live again.

Hope the best for you - don't give up and find your center. You say you are a good mother so you should be able to spot those individuals who are working against your interests. You are responsible it seems so remember you first need to worry about outside influence before worrying about your spouse's reactionary ways.

This man is entirely dysfunctional, he keeps getting fired, he refuses to get clean and sober, he refuses to get proper treatment, and he treats you horribly - in fact, he abuses you. Your own daughter is effected mentally and emotionally by him, and wants you to leave him, yet you stay. Why??? Why at this point would you not pull the trigger for the sake of your own daughter's mental health and well being, along with your own? I understand that you think he will change - he won't - not without proper treatment, therapy and help. And I disagree that mental illness is the cause of his abuse. He likely is abusive, yet has some mental illness and addiction issues. It almost doesn't matter what's wrong with him. You say it's getting worse. You say you still care about him and it seems you feel responsible for him. You're not. He is 100% responsible for himself and for his own life. So what's stopping you exactly? I am scratching my head on this one. I read through the entire thread, with all the details, and I am still scratching my head. You're being treated like total crap! And you're fighting back, but because you stay, you're putting up with it. Your self esteem has had to have taken a big hit, after all his insults and demeaning treatment of you. For the sake of your daughter, why can't you make a decision to leave this abusive a-hole once and for all? If not for your own sake? It seems your daughter is really suffering.... she is going to end up very screwed up from witnessing an entirely dysfunctional relationship, and is already suffering and hurt from it. She's angry with you, even. That will only get worse the longer you stay and she will resent you, potentially for many years to come. Pull the band-aid off, be brave, and end this nightmare for yourself. Life CAN be SO much better that this.

This exercise may help you.
Ten minutes or more a day, sit and imagine what you and your children's lives would be like without him in it (or at least living with you). Get into details. What are you like? What are your children like? How do the days unfold? Do you have more self-love, confidence, zest for life? Do your children? Is the chaos gone?
Imagine your husband being humbled by this experience, and picking himself up by the bootstraps. Realizing he has to change and does. Life becomes better for him also. He begins to live the life he couldn't even dream of. He desires to become the best man he can after he comes to the realization of what his actions have cost him. His children gain newfound respect for him.

In this scenario, you are providing an amazing gift to everyone including yourself.
While this may sound like a fairytale, there is profound potential for some version of this to come into your lives. You are in effect asking the universe or God (or whatever your belief system is) to benefit everyone including your husband, your children and yourself. You desire and attract to yourself a win-win situation for all. You are changing your focus from what you don't want to what you do want.

If this doesn't resonate just ignore this post.

Immaturity is a funny word.. Are you thinking you can express simply love and get a response from him that way?

To say he never really understood you is a give on your match being of little concern for you to him in the beginning. That might sound bad because it is however it really shouldn't be considered going forward. You have to makeup ground where and as you cross it.

Further, importing chemical issues with the reconciliation is stupid and should not be part of your conversation as I'm sure they were there when you started also.

Why are you like that is because you have an idea that you could more easy start with a new or old version and live out your days with them. Do that or not but it sounds like you might communicate with him like you do here than you should not make it sound so tentative and pick the direction of restore.

Thanks for your perspective, northernmark. I won’t give up, although yesterday I was feeling down. I was wondering how much the relationship has to do with feeling down. Part of my frustration is feeling stuck between two ideas, and therefore not knowing where to put energy right now. My counselor commented that I am very fact based and not emotional. She said that’s good. I agree, especially because I am focused on making good decisions. However, I don’t have consistent strong feelings to push me, so I take my time with things. I have always been positive about my husband around my kids, but likely took it too far, because my kids were effected negatively by him and told me so.

I appreciate your words: “If you are serious about your marriage then you have to be responsible only for your part of the failure and nothing more.“

I need to ponder this.

Thanks have hope. I’ve had a lot to work through. My daughter is okay at the moment. She expressed anger to me a couple times. She’s been happy lately and doing much better, breaking out of her shell. It’s better now that he is gone working a lot and he likes it too so that’s good. I will keep providing opportunities for her and putting her first.

I do want life to be better. I got a new job which is very helpful but its also a big change and I’m exhausted. When I’m not at work I’m caring for her. I’m caring for three dogs and a huge yard, cooking, cleaning. I’ve been doing intense counseling. I’ve been writing here. I’ve been breaking beliefs about my relationship. Again, I’m, exhausted. I’m doing my best. I have to keep my sanity too.

Thank you rocky road. It really helps to imagine things positively like you laid out. My mind had been going to negatives and worse case scenarios, which only makes me feel more stuck. I will try your exercise.