Grieving my marriahe

@*Beth*, my comments are not aimed at making his wife out to be the "devil". These issues have been ongoing for years now, and for years he has been badly mistreated by his wife. I am simply pointing out the fact that she is abusive, she gets away with it all, and the kids cannot even stand her, in knowing how badly and poorly she behaves. She has never treated the OP right. And this I have observed from afar for a very very long time now. We all have.

I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm grieving.

In the last two weeks especially this is tearing the stomach out of me and breaking my heart.

I love our home, this community, the life we were supposed to have, and I love my wife. I don't hate her. I'm barely even angry at her. I think she broke from years of pain and illness.

What do I want? Well.... I've become codependent. I probably wouldn't leave. This has increased over time, and each new step becomes "normal".

The kids are asking to leave, calling me at work to say that. They haven't received much of this behavior, this is just based on them seeing me receive it.

It's important to me to not vilify their mom. It's important they don't jump on the bandwagon against mom because mom was the one to voice divorce. I also don't want to normalize all this to them either.

When I stop and think about stuff it's bad.

It's the school year. One of the kids has lice. Last week my wife found lice on herself and came and told me. My response was, "Oh shoot... Will you check me?" That wasn't why she was there. She was there to ask if I was sleeping around, because it had to come from somewhere.

Gee. Maybe it came from the kid we've been treating for 30 days now.

The next day, zero acknowledgement that she'd even said that to me. When I questioned her about it no response.

I've been examining that. In another house that would be shocking. Here, it was just another night.

I don't know what happened. This isn't who she was. I think she vented pain and depression at me for years, but this stuff..... wow.

I didn't set mid January as a deadline. I set the end of February.

Right now I'm sick to my stomach, it's hard to eat, and I'm exhausted.

RDM

You said you love “The life you supposed to have”. You love a fantasy and a dream.

I'm aware of that.

I struggled through a lot, just waiting and trying to find answers for her health so we could all be together and move forward together.

Unfortunately until she herself looks for answers and seeks serious help (including help with her alcohol addiction/ excessive consumption), nothing will change, you can’t fix her. You can’t fix other people. That’s wishful thinking.

Only she can look for answers and make changes. Sadly there’s no indication that she wants to improve her life and marriage

One of the things that can wreak havoc in a woman is gynecological problems. You mentioned your wife having surgery and my thoughts went to wondering if her surgery was addressing a gynecological issue. That can most definitely affect a woman and cause some very real emotional problems along with changes in hormones that can bring about deep depressive episodes. And some women have a horrible time when they are going through the change of life.

There can be a combination of things that can change behaviors. That’s why it’s important that your wife makes sure there is no health issue causing her to experience confusion and mood swings.

Yes the abuse of alcohol alone can cause problems but there may be another underlying issue too.

It sounds though like RD’s wife has been behaving in these ways for a very long time? That would be not just in menopause years.

I guess RD, it depends on how many more years you are willing to stay in this situation?

I gave menupause as an example as that can last a few years. There are other problems like endometriosis that can plague a woman for several years leading up to having to get surgery as that’s what I had myself. Women can suffer from ovarian cysts that grow large and burst and the pain from that can be excruciating. I was given medication to stop my period and it ended up completely depleting me of estrogen and I went into a debilitating depression where I could not even get out of bed. I had to get hormone treatment that took a while to where I could function.

Hormonal imbalance can have crippling affects on someone. My endometriosis traveled down my right leg and mensural cycles brought pain in my right leg. The condition got worse with time and the PMS was horrible.

I was in my late thirties and turning 40 when I went through hell. I ended up going through early menupause.

Just saying….

Absolutely valid points OE and please don’t read this as criticism.

I’m just aware RD feels like he needs/is obligated to take care of his wife but I’m reading his posts (although it’s always difficult to know online) like she’s been behaving in a controlling and abusive manner to him for some time?

It’s a wonderful attribute to take care of one’s spouse, it’s one I personally aspire to myself, but I’m reading about so much long term ongoing harmful behaviour here that I don’t know that it’s a wise thing for him to take care of her at expense of his own life or his kids.

It is of course very difficult even for RD to know what’s really going on, but especially us reading online.

@Discombobulated I agree with you and have also noticed his wife’s need for control that is concerning and at times unhealthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes One of the things that can wreak havoc in a woman is gynecological problems. You mentioned your wife having surgery and my thoughts went to wondering if her surgery was addressing a gynecological issue. That can most definitely affect a woman and cause some very real emotional problems along with changes in hormones that can bring about deep depressive episodes. And some women have a horrible time when they are going through the change of life. There can be a combination of things that can change behaviors. That’s why it’s important that your wife makes sure there is no health issue causing her to experience confusion and mood swings. Yes the abuse of alcohol alone can cause problems but there may be another underlying issue too.

I agree; I mentioned the same pages back, in fact. I really wish the woman would visit a gyno, if she has not recently - which she should be doing regardless of all else, just for routine care.

See if this describes your relationship.

Added to this is her addiction to alcohol only further compromising your relationship.

From what you share, I believe you really want to have the home and picture of a happy family in the community you like so much. Yet, there comes a point where it’s time to face what is present in the relationship that is too unhealthy for that to happen.

I am borrowing this link from another member who posted it and when I listened to it your challenge came to my mind.

Thanks Open Eyes. I'm familiar with this, and broached it with my wife a few years ago. She says she is anxious not avoidant. I see some of this applying to us, not everything.

This is just so hard right now. Like I said so many times, I don't hate her, I'm not angry at her. I see her as injured and I see her as mentally ill. I love her, and needed her as my partner.

We had a counselling session this past week and the stuff she said.... It just never happened. She talked about stuff from several years ago and it just didn't happen like she said at all. It's hard to move forward when we are working off a revised history now.

She surrounded herself with a new circle of friends who have no knowledge of us as a family, and they are fully supporting her on liberating herself from the hardships she has had to endure from me; advising her of her rights and entitlements in a divorce, offering her a place to stay, and saying things to the kids about me.

This is really hard. I've loved her since we first began dating 25 years ago. I never envisioned myself being married until I met her. Who she has become is not who she was.

RDM

I’m very sorry and I can sympathize with how difficult this is for you. I have experienced dealing with someone who exaggerates and even twists events around to things that never happened. It’s very distorted and can get very confusing. It’s distorted delusional thinking and can get so puzzling as to what is contributing to it. And YES I have witnessed this delusional thinking and the use of alcohol makes it even worse. And when someone gets attention from it and others believe the victim stories, the person can start believing their own lies. It’s awful!

I went through hell with my older sister who made things up and played the victim. It got so bad it repeatedly traumatized me. I saw different therapists who felt she had a personality disorder and they mentioned NPD, BPD, and Histrionic pd’s. I even thought about schizophrenia because she claimed to have special powers and could see ghosts and talk to them. She did at one point like to drink and smoke pot. My husband often said she behaved like a dry drunk. She is four years older than me and she always insisted on having the control and could be bossy.

I wanted to love her and have a good relationship with her. I unknowingly projected a better person in her than she actually was. She is the oldest and really never wanted to share my parents with younger siblings. That really came out loud and clear the last years of my parent’s lives. The person I loved in her never really existed. That’s very much like mourning a death.

As human beings we are prone to seeing things in others that do not really exist. Many nice caring people fall victim to extremely disordered people who pretend to be good but are not. Once you learn how to see the red flags and certain behaviors that are unhealthy it is amazing what you can see.

I do try to consider different things that can contribute to a persons behavior. My husband has ADHD and Dyslexia and he tends to fill a space and often has a poor sense of boundaries. It’s as though he is in constant mania and he struggles to sit still. He can get on my nerves because I am more laid back and am a deep thinker. Luckily for me I had two therapists that were similar to me that were both married to women with ADHD. They could easily be labeled as narcissists because of how their brain is wired where their behaviors can get overwhelming and frustrating.

So, there are different things in a person that can contribute to their behaviors which is why it’s important to see a professional rather then labeling them as the most common narcissist that is so common today.

Then as I mentioned, there can be hormonal problems involved that I know first hand can contribute to struggles with mental health. This is true for both men and women.

And then there is alcoholism that tends to be a real relationship killer and can leave a partner exhausted and traumatized. And if a person stops drinking, that doesn’t change the toxic patterns. The person tends to continue a toxic loop of behaviors. There is also a lack of maturity. For example, a 50 year old male or female only has the maturity of a teen or young partying college student.

There can be problems that despite all good intentions do not improve and can actually get worse with time.

Just checking in.

Things are much the same here. There's peace between she and I. She hasn't acknowledged any of the things I said about any of her outbursts at me in recent weeks. She flip flops between wanting to try and wanting a divorce. The kids are totally done and want us separated. They have each, and together, asked me to make plans and move forward without their mom.

I still see her as being someone in mental and emotional distress. I am accepting that even if that is accurate, it doesn't mean I can save her, correct this, bring us back to being a family, or that it is the right thing for the rest of us. I am also facing how financially crippling divorce will be.

Christmas will be a very challenging time.

My parents and extended family are hosting their big annual party. Concurrently, my wife's group of friends all have their own plans for Christmas.

If the kids and I go to my parents', it will be a welcome relief from all this at home. But it will be a crippling injury to my wife who is already deeply hurting.

I'm thinking I will encourage the kids to go to the grandparents and I will stay home with my wife. I really feel that is the right course of action.

RDMercer

What kind of group is your wife active with?

Some groups that are supposed to be support groups are more of trauma and drama dumping grounds that can be unhealthy. I am wondering
If this may be contributing to how your wife is sharing things that you know never happened.

When combining alcohol addiction and a group that leans drama focused, that can become another addiction that can get very unhealthy. A person begins to tap onto whatever they can to create drama rather then focusing on building healthy outlets.

It's not a support group, just a friend group of

"empowered women who are dating and pursuing real relationships and living their lives on their terms and who aren't held back, women who are queens and who know what they are entitled to"

So, yeah, I've been told that more than once.

Some social groups are not healthy. She should not be creating a false narrative. That’s not healing or healthy. Your children know this too and it’s upsetting them.

From what you share, your wife sounds very unfulfilled and unhappy. However she also developed a problem with alcohol addiction. She needs help with that but also while she wants to live a more fulfilled life, she needs to see her own part that led to her unhappiness. It’s very unhealthy to blame things on you or to begin creating history that is not accurate.

Empowered women are independent. If you are dependent on others and spend your days laying around whatever is that you are doing all day like watching tv or drinking, you certainly aren’t empowered in any shape or form.

These type of women screaming about being strong and empowered and independent can’t survive on their own for a week. They don’t know what that even means.

As about dating, one needs to get divorced first.

I think that what might be part of the problem with your wife is that she went from living at home to a marriage and mother and she became a homemaker. It used to be that was recognized as having value and respected. That is not the case anymore and people can be mean and critical calling these women as being dependent and lazy.

Women are expected to be much more in today’s world where they do it all and even independent and self sustaining. Now being a mother and full time home maker is so devalued that a woman can be encouraged to feel unfulfilled. These women are not sitting and watching soap operas and eating bomb bombs all day. Instead they get the children off to school, they plan the meals, they shop and do the laundry and greet the children when they come home and often drive them to soccer practice or ballet class or whatever the child has as extra activities.

It is possible a woman loses herself. It’s possible as her children get into their teens that there is a sense of loss. And some women combat daily stress with drinking wine at nite. Some women develop a problem and it is gradual until it becomes self medicating as an escape.

It’s not wrong to look for help and support type group. However, it can become a situation similar to expecting a first grader to enter a 6th grade class and suddenly be able to be a sixth grader.
A sign of this mismatch is when a woman begins inventing things to fit in.

No one JUST masters independence over nite. Also, stopping the use of alcohol as you have shared your wife doing doesn’t FIX the disease.

I think your wife knows you are not the problem. I think what she is trying to create is being a kind of free that she never really experienced before. She doesn’t realize she can be both either. I think she is trying to say, you a good guy but I need to just do me for a while.

Oh, my goodness, I believe that @Open Eyeshas made an excellent point. I was 18, 3 months out of high school, when I met my future husband. We almost immediately moved in together. I did go to college, but while we were living together. We had a separation during which time I worked, but it was only a few months long. Three years in we were married and I fulfilled the biggest dream I had - being a homemaker and stay at home mom.

Everything was wonderful until the kids were around 10 and 13 and my husband was more interested in his work than in our family. The children didn't need me as much. I didn't drink, I just wandered into affairs.

I'm finding myself, at age 60, with the life experience of a woman much younger. People often tell me, "Oh, my gosh! You don't look sixty!" Yeah, well, that's not because of the moisturizer I use. It's because I'm emotionally stunted, and I know it.

It is 100% TRUE that being a homemaker is very, very hard work - no doubt about that! However, it is also a life's work that shelters one from the world, in a strong way. Most of your interaction is with children and with adults who interact mostly with children. In a very specific way, a woman who is a SAHM never totally learns how to become a complete adult.

There is no easy or perfect answer to the situation, because I still believe that being home to raise children is an extremely important job.

At 60 *Beth* you were still in a generation where women married young and started families and did not have a chance to really be on their own first.

You probably got to a point when you wanted a career change so you could experience more than being a homemaker. I think that may be what his wife is experiencing.

It’s not that she hates him etc, it’s more her being bored with the lifestyle. I think her drinking problem was gradual and got out of control. Yet he mentioned she still drinks some, just not all day. He did not know how bad things were until Covid.

I don’t think she can really explain what she is experiencing so their discussions turn into arguments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes At 60 *Beth* you were still in a generation where women married young and started families and did not have a chance to really be on their own first. ......

Ooooh, no, no, no! Not at all! I graduated high school in 1981, straight into the Reagan years when women were expected to be Superwomen. Office, husband, baby in daycare by 6 months of age. In that order. My girlfriends were Yuppies, every one, critical of me for being a "hippie" and asked me when I was going to "get a real job" because I was "spoiling my children by doting over them."

I just want to clarify. You must be quite a bit younger than I am, not to remember those years.

Oh I remember those years. Yes “the yuppies” lol. I am older than you, 66. When I had a phone on the wall and they still had phone booths. 😊

I think we go through stages, change is part biological and what each decade presents that is a milestone as we progress through life. And, there are different cultural and class influences.

Lots to consider when offering advice. I think people focus on escape and blame without listening and instead project how they live instead of considering years of investment they themselves never made.