[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Not sure where to go with this.

I'm torn between a side of myself that find the spiritual, the metaphysical, the unexplained, the irrational utterly fascinating and beautiful...and the careful thinker who's been basically taught (socially) that all of those things are nonsense for stupid, weak-minded, illogical people who don't properly understand science and need delusional superstitions to make sense of reality.

I've been tooling around online and developed an interest in a subject that rather necessitates spiritual improvement. I can't bring myself, though, to take much on faith (and it bothers me how much "evidence" in favor of the spiritual existing is either taken by parapsychologists or spiritual teachers, or is actual science "twisted and misinterpreted" according to scientists and scientifically-minded people. The word "energy" is the first thing that comes to mind, or how people twist quantum physics as evidence of spiritual realms...). I can't accept that the rational and spiritual operate in some kind of separate realms where one doesn't have to abide by the other. Even though I want to. I want to so badly. But then, any effect I experience will just be my mind tricking me, or a placebo effect, and I'll be ridiculous. At best, I look at it as symbolic...but that's not enough, I know that.

I'm more afraid of consequences than anything. More afraid of being seen as stupid and backward (including viewing myself that way), irrational and illogical. And therefore a terrible person.

I'm not religious, not Christian. So any "let go, let God" isn't going to mean much to me. But I guess I wonder...how can I open myself up more and let myself experiment with less shame and fewer mental blocks?

[Thunder Bow]

"I'm torn between a side of myself that find the spiritual, the metaphysical, the unexplained, the irrational utterly fascinating and beautiful...and the careful thinker who's been basically taught (socially) that all of those things are nonsense for stupid, weak-minded, illogical people who don't properly understand science and need delusional superstitions to make sense of reality."........

People who say these kind of things are the Stupid weak minded ones. Those who judge will remain Ignorant.

Keep an open mind and explore. Try to Understand instead of Judge. Most important, do not judge yourself. Then you will do well on your spiritual journey. Spirituality is really about connections. You can PM me if you like.

Understanding means knowledge, and knowledge = power.

[Mr.Arch-Vile]

I think the op made an well thought out post.

To answer is you must accept that there will always be haters for the beauty you can see in spirituality, the things that you can see that they don't.

These people are spirt zombies, they want to bring you down and make you "equal in suffering".

To avoid these people is simple, bring nothing religious up, let them bring it up to talk about it.

Now for some interesting concepts of my spiritual mystery has to do with math and numbers.

To me the number of "pi" is scared number. I am not saying it is magical, that it grants you wishes and the such. I am saying it is naturally occurring constant in nature.

There's a little more, but I've lost my train of thought, again very good topic.


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[Shoe]

I had a similar conflict when I was younger. You might benefit from reading some of Ervin Laszlo's work. Science and the Re-enchantment of the Cosmos is a good one to start with.
I have been reading some of your other posts and would like to recommend Viktor Frankl Man's Search for Meaning. I think it applies to women also.
Towards the end of that book he writes a little about self-transcendence.
When I was younger I was pretty self focused which I realize now was a source of much of my discomfort.
You can slowly start to gain psychological insight by reading good books I have found.
When I was much younger I was driving my old car and listening to the DJ on the radio. It happened to be Friday the 13th and the subject of superstition came up. The DJ said some philosopher once said that superstition was for people too stupid to figure things out for themselves or can't afford a psychiatrist. That would be me except for the fact that where I live it doesn't cost that much to see a psychiatrist.

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Not sure where to go with this.

I'm torn between a side of myself that find the spiritual, the metaphysical, the unexplained, the irrational utterly fascinating and beautiful...and the careful thinker who's been basically taught (socially) that all of those things are nonsense for stupid, weak-minded, illogical people who don't properly understand science and need delusional superstitions to make sense of reality.

I've been tooling around online and developed an interest in a subject that rather necessitates spiritual improvement. I can't bring myself, though, to take much on faith (and it bothers me how much "evidence" in favor of the spiritual existing is either taken by parapsychologists or spiritual teachers, or is actual science "twisted and misinterpreted" according to scientists and scientifically-minded people. The word "energy" is the first thing that comes to mind, or how people twist quantum physics as evidence of spiritual realms...). I can't accept that the rational and spiritual operate in some kind of separate realms where one doesn't have to abide by the other. Even though I want to. I want to so badly. But then, any effect I experience will just be my mind tricking me, or a placebo effect, and I'll be ridiculous. At best, I look at it as symbolic...but that's not enough, I know that.

I'm more afraid of consequences than anything. More afraid of being seen as stupid and backward (including viewing myself that way), irrational and illogical. And therefore a terrible person.

I'm not religious, not Christian. So any "let go, let God" isn't going to mean much to me. But I guess I wonder...how can I open myself up more and let myself experiment with less shame and fewer mental blocks?

[cinnamonstick]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Not sure where to go with this.

I'm torn between a side of myself that find the spiritual, the metaphysical, the unexplained, the irrational utterly fascinating and beautiful...and the careful thinker who's been basically taught (socially) that all of those things are nonsense for stupid, weak-minded, illogical people who don't properly understand science and need delusional superstitions to make sense of reality.

I've been tooling around online and developed an interest in a subject that rather necessitates spiritual improvement. I can't bring myself, though, to take much on faith (and it bothers me how much "evidence" in favor of the spiritual existing is either taken by parapsychologists or spiritual teachers, or is actual science "twisted and misinterpreted" according to scientists and scientifically-minded people. The word "energy" is the first thing that comes to mind, or how people twist quantum physics as evidence of spiritual realms...). I can't accept that the rational and spiritual operate in some kind of separate realms where one doesn't have to abide by the other. Even though I want to. I want to so badly. But then, any effect I experience will just be my mind tricking me, or a placebo effect, and I'll be ridiculous. At best, I look at it as symbolic...but that's not enough, I know that.

I'm more afraid of consequences than anything. More afraid of being seen as stupid and backward (including viewing myself that way), irrational and illogical. And therefore a terrible person.

I'm not religious, not Christian. So any "let go, let God" isn't going to mean much to me. But I guess I wonder...how can I open myself up more and let myself experiment with less shame and fewer mental blocks?

You know what? Spiritual means many things to many different people. I encourage you to get a book by Louise L Hay. My favorite is YOU CAN HEAL YOUR LIFE. It is about the power of the mind. I say start there. There are many things in the Spiritual realm I do not embrace. I think the best part of Spirituality is that it is a little mix of everything that speaks only to you!

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Thanks all. I just spent the past day or so stressing over how one is supposed to adapt to the reality about how everything we experience, feel, think, perceive is reducible to our brains d biology. How nothing beyomg the physical exists according to modern science, certainly nothing spiritual is valid except as self-delusion.

What this makes me think, is that one isn't really "allowed" to enjoy anything unrealistic, entertain the idea of extra normal things being valid except as entertainment.

When I wrote this, I had been exploring some, er, very fringey stuff. Then skepticism overtook me and I couldn't bear to let myself believe I could develop powers, that unidentified energy exists and can be manipulated. Now, however, I'm just stressing about concepts and feelings. How can you take those seriously, even talk about them as though they are valid things when they're just brain states, nothing more than firing neurons. How can you talk about things like love, justice, or spirituality like they're things when they can simply be located in the brain? They aren't things that come from nowhere; they're indistinguishable from anything physical because nothing else exists. Why discuss them as things in themselves? Maybe it's true that science has overtaken philosophy d usurped it as a source of personal knowledge. All we need to know is neuroscience and that will give us all the answers - and correct ones too - that centuries of literature grasped at.

Yes, the thought of this makes me kind of sick with anxiety. The certainty of it, and the limitation of it. No wonder I've been feeling spiritually zombified.

[CopperStar]

The brain is very special and amazing, and there is still a lot about it that we don't understand. Just because something originates inside the brain, does not make it any less meaningful or significant. Just because we get to a point where science can explain something, doesn't make it any less profound or awe-worthy. Nothing literally changes when we make a discovery or gain understanding. Everything remains the same, and just as special, amazing and meaningful as it ever was.

[Shoe]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Thanks all. I just spent the past day or so stressing over how one is supposed to adapt to the reality about how everything we experience, feel, think, perceive is reducible to our brains d biology. How nothing beyomg the physical exists according to modern science, certainly nothing spiritual is valid except as self-delusion.

What this makes me think, is that one isn't really "allowed" to enjoy anything unrealistic, entertain the idea of extra normal things being valid except as entertainment.

When I wrote this, I had been exploring some, er, very fringey stuff. Then skepticism overtook me and I couldn't bear to let myself believe I could develop powers, that unidentified energy exists and can be manipulated. Now, however, I'm just stressing about concepts and feelings. How can you take those seriously, even talk about them as though they are valid things when they're just brain states, nothing more than firing neurons. How can you talk about things like love, justice, or spirituality like they're things when they can simply be located in the brain? They aren't things that come from nowhere; they're indistinguishable from anything physical because nothing else exists. Why discuss them as things in themselves? Maybe it's true that science has overtaken philosophy d usurped it as a source of personal knowledge. All we need to know is neuroscience and that will give us all the answers - and correct ones too - that centuries of literature grasped at.

Yes, the thought of this makes me kind of sick with anxiety. The certainty of it, and the limitation of it. No wonder I've been feeling spiritually zombified.

What you are describing here is what Viktor Frankl termed Existential Angst. People fall into despair as they view everything as random and meaningless.

William James described spirituality as attempting to live in harmony with the unseen order. Laszlo is formulating a theory about an unseen order. That is why I am interested in his writings.

I also recommend reading Dean Radin's Entangled Minds.

Someone once said that a mind is like a parachute ; it works best if it is open. Not too open that your brain is going fall out though. Tom Campbell likes to use the phrase " Open minded skepticism "

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Shoe

What you are describing here is what Viktor Frankl termed Existential Angst. People fall into despair as they view everything as random and meaningless.

William James described spirituality as attempting to live in harmony with the unseen order. Laszlo is formulating a theory about an unseen order. That is why I am interested in his writings.

I also recommend reading Dean Radin's Entangled Minds.

Someone once said that a mind is like a parachute ; it works best if it is open. Not too open that your brain is going fall out though. Tom Campbell likes to use the phrase " Open minded skepticism "

I never thought I was intelligent enough to experience existential angst. Better late than never, I guess.

Yesterday I ended up talking about this with someone - with an actual human being, who's advice basically ended up boiling down to "You're not a robot - just live!" Which isn't really what I wanted, but it did get me thinking.

I guess my solution (however long it lasts) is to just kind of...ignore it. It still feels dishonest to not adjust your worldview to new information, to not experience yourself differently knowing everything from nameless fear to transcendent inspiration is just a lot of neurons firing and shouldn't be taken seriously. But I know I'd be happiest to continue to feel those things as they come and conceptualize them abstractly and talk about concept as though they were things. Even if that makes me a crappy person who would rather be happy and ignorant. And yeah, it also gives me the right to explore things even if they're irrational and not real.

Thanks for the book recommendations.

[sammo777]

something are unknowable, incomprehensible, unquantifiable, irreducible and make no real sense according to what we know, as intelligent beings, to be real, or possible.

But that don't mean we should guilty, bad, wrong or stupid for occasionally possessing big grins, puzzled frowns, or mouths agape and eyes agog with awe and wonder.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

While not a spiritual thing, I seem to have gone from worrying about neuro humanities to reviving old anxiety about the impending singularity, the prospect of human obsolescence, of extinction of our own making.

I think my spiritual journey needs a strong basis in living in the moment and making oneself happy. I'm fairly sure that if I were internally calm, maybe had some meaningful relationships, I'd be less terrified of having even my meager creative skills replaced by a hyper intelligent machine. Hell, even if I could be happy in myself, I'd be less afraid of anything. Or so I'd like to believe.

[Mr.Arch-Vile]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

While not a spiritual thing, I seem to have gone from worrying about neuro humanities to reviving old anxiety about the impending singularity, the prospect of human obsolescence, of extinction of our own making.

I think my spiritual journey needs a strong basis in living in the moment and making oneself happy. I'm fairly sure that if I were internally calm, maybe had some meaningful relationships, I'd be less terrified of having even my meager creative skills replaced by a hyper intelligent machine. Hell, even if I could be happy in myself, I'd be less afraid of anything. Or so I'd like to believe.

Human obsolescence is something I used to get upset with, then I figured if robots develop a sense of longing for their creator they would resurrect the human race due to how advanced they are.

I can claim from that that our life is nothing but a dream in a giant super computer that contains all the information held in the universe.

( Now I actually don't believe this just how I make analogies to why life exists.)

Why the machine exists is unknown, and therefore it uses all of creation to solve the riddle of its own existance. This machine is young in our years and just starting to mature, hence to why we are just starting to head out to the stars.

Simply, If we are to be creators of the creator, it is of utmost importance that we survive, multiply, and escape.

We are carrying the light in a world of darkness, and inversely we are carrying the darkness in a world of light. The Yin-Yang.



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[ScientiaOmnisEst]

It never ends, does it? Read some stuff about how spiritual people are gullible and less intelligent, how admitting you're into any of that makes you a huge target because you're so easy to manipulate, and people lie and don't care in order to sell you things. And that obviously such things as altering oneself by will or spiritual energy do not exist. That Reality is magical and that should be enough (interestingly, that's a chronic condition of mine. Reality has always seemed inferior and dull. In fact, I find I relate to it primarily through fiction. Seriously, I come to terms with things by reading novels or dreaming up stories, because research stresses me out so quickly).

I know that I'm especially vulnerable due to my mental issues, my long-standing aversion to engaging "reality" for too long, and my general feeling of spiritual starvation. Yet the more I read saying it's all irrational nonsense only believed by people with no critical thinking skills, the more miserable I feel, and I wonder if I shouldn't just start studying the dull, real world. Force myself to learn the science I'm too dumb to learn (I failed enough college classes to know that)and all the analytical stuff I never cared for anyway. I just want to experience life, I just want to be calm and stable and be able to live without constant anxiety (something I know becoming a skeptic in any serious sense - you know, the kind of person who sees fallacies and biases everywhere. Another fear of mine being having to lose my natural feeling, intuitive tendencies in favor of becoming analytical and dry...), but it's impossible. I thought this would help, but I can't be that person. I can't be that idiot following woo and nonsense. I refuse to be part of that narrative.

I probably just think I'm skeptical, when I'm not really...if I were a true skeptic I'd believe the scientific evidence that says it all isn't real....that I'm just kind of stuck with material reality with nothing beyond it. Because it feels like excuses all around. If a decide to try it, I know I won't just be doing it for shits and giggles: my heart will be in it. I'll be doing whatever it is with the full intent of making it work as best as possible - which will only bias me. Of course I'll think it will work. Of course I'll see results because I want to...but I also may not see results (and experience all the effects that go with that) if I go about thinking "This is stupid and it won't work". I suppose I have a vision of it inspiring me enough to help me overcome myself, of teaching me strength....and also, yes, of opening a new and unknown world. Those are my interests. These are what I suppose I want from alternative spiritual exploration.

But I know where it's supposed to lead: you realize it's ********, then cast it off to stand against reality without a crutch. The thought of becoming such a story fills me with so much shame and disgust I think it would be better off to not be a convert-to-reason and just avoid it all together. But then I think: what if that other person is mistaken, or missing something? What if there is something to it? The arguments against it are all obvious, but is that necessarily true...?

The guilt is killing me. To know that I want it so badly but it's wrong. worse, it feels like this: if I find anything supporting it, it's confirmation bias. If I find anything against it, it's "well, maybe it isn't fully understood yet" or "If the goal is just a personal effect, and I think of it as intense symbolism, what's the harm?" The harm is stupidity, of thinking less of myself for being so stupid and having others think less of me. I know that I crave the irrational because I'm too stupid and weak to be rational, to be a proper skeptic and thinker and learn about reality. I'm tempted to experiment anyway and practice in secret, but then it's a matter of integrity. I'm still pathetic and stupid, still tricking myself (although, at the very least, some of the kinds of practices I've looked into acknowledge that they're psychological).

I can't do it. I just can't do it. I can't bear to be that person.

[Mr.Arch-Vile]

I'm sorry to report but I feel that your scope has been ever expanding in this thread.

I get the impression that you have been offered a 2000 piece puzzle of spirituality and each piece is actually from a different puzzle so it's doomed from the start.

As an aside I think your writing is very articulate. But I am getting lost from your point, it's as if you already understand your problem in it's fullness but do not admit to it.

Remember an atheist has to first acknowledge a belief in a higher power to then denie its existence. A believer and non-believer are just sides to the same coin. Only in pure impossible ignorance can you have the free pass of a non-spiritual world.

Be it the Church or the State, you will always believe something has a higher authority over you.

There is no such thing as nothing, because it implies it had to of come from something.

What exactly are you a skeptic of? I think if you can identify the exact element your skeptical of you may find some peace. However this easier stated than done.


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[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Mr.Arch-Vile

I'm sorry to report but I feel that your scope has been ever expanding in this thread.

I get the impression that you have been offered a 2000 piece puzzle of spirituality and each piece is actually from a different puzzle so it's doomed from the start.

As an aside I think your writing is very articulate. But I am getting lost from your point, it's as if you already understand your problem in it's fullness but do not admit to it.

Remember an atheist has to first acknowledge a belief in a higher power to then denie its existence. A believer and non-believer are just sides to the same coin. Only in pure impossible ignorance can you have the free pass of a non-spiritual world.

Be it the Church or the State, you will always believe something has a higher authority over you.

There is no such thing as nothing, because it implies it had to of come from something.

What exactly are you a skeptic of? I think if you can identify the exact element your skeptical of you may find some peace. However this easier stated than done.


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If I may (and I've calmed down a lot): I was looking into some pretty woo stuff. Rituals, affecting reality by will, etc. This whole thread started with psionics, the development of psychic powers through focus and meditation. Then after a week skepticism took over (see below) and I gave it up, almost. I tried looking into Magick, which seems rather similar, and as I was listening to some speech on it, I kept thinking how impossible it sounds. At best I thought, maybe I could just think of it all as symbolic, focus on using it as representative of inner change, and such.

But it's all to easily explained away. The real feats can be explained naturally, and the subjective experiences? Tricks of the brain, biases, fallacies, all of it. There's nothing special there, you're just too stupid and emotional to see it and instead think some magic energy is balancing out or whatever. So if there's nothing to it, why bother?

Much of it applies to more mainstream spiritual stuff too. Tricks of the brain and meaningless appeals to things that have been empirically proven not to exist. It's not even a placebo effect (doesn't actually exist) or anything mind-body related. It's just ignorance.

I admitted I'm vulnerable. The other day when I posted this I had found a few people discussing experiences with OBEs or astral projection (something I've wanted to try just to see what would happen), and someone comes and points out to one poster that, based on her posts, she'd be incredibly easy to manipulate if he had no conscience. If you admit you believe in spiritual and new-agey stuff, you're basically a walking target. All a person has to do is talk to you, act as if they agree to build trust, then the person could get the spiritual individual to do something crazy or stupid because they'd believe the ******** reasons it would work.

That last paragraph served no point.

Regardless, I ended up combing the internet for "spirituality and skepticism". Most all rational, scientific, thinking people agree that it's nonsense for people with no critical thinking skills. Which is what I am, but still. A real intelligent person only needs the inspiration of Reality, and the magic of existing the feel spiritually fulfilled, instead of nonsense like prayer, meditation, rituals of any kind, or any ******** beliefs.

(I don't really buy the whole magic-of-reality thing, like I mentioned in a previous post. Fiction inspires me far more than material reality does; it always has as long as I can remember. And seeing as I read so much fantasy...is it any wonder I began, as I disintegrated emotionally, to wish something as amazing like that was real, and jump at the possibility that it is? Then my brain killed it...).

[Mr.Arch-Vile]

Read you loud and clear with that last post.

I will have to say is Magik is real depending on how you look at. If you can create interesting things that people enjoy, not just yourself, then you have practiced magik. If you make things that get you lost in translation and lead to no affirmations then it's not magik.

While this sounds stupid, it's a much more practical way to think about it rather than beat yourself up over it thinking magik implies fantasy.

It's stuff like making fire appear outta thin air which is the far out type of Magik which would require actual "magic" (a well thought out trick )

With this said they are no set guidelines,although some will try to make you accept, in magik. You just have to be practicing in an ethical manner that doesn't infringe on the natural rights of others.

Of course I am following my definition of Magik which would in fact lead me to getting in trouble with the closed minded.

Now this isn't a smart *** Internet meme question...but you still have to wonder...how do magnets work? Better yet why do magnets work?

Science is Magik, Magik is Science.

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[schizotypalnet]

I would highly recommend Sam Harris' book "Waking Up" for anyone interested in spirituality without religion. It is excellent and really makes a good case for how to separate the two.

[Teddy Bear]

Sometimes people are afraid of things they don't understand. I feel as a spiritual outcast in my family because I see things differently. Don't be afraid to be different. I have found that there are people who you can share your thoughts with and some you can't here you're safe.

[Katieissweet]

We have two sides the left brain rational,efficient,logical side which is masculine,the yang then we have the feminine side which is creative,right brain,intuitive,spiritual,wild the yin etc you can think of this intuition as your soul,For hundreds of years now that feminine side has been utterly suppressed and its up to you to embrace it.

[continuosly blue]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Not sure where to go with this.

I'm torn between a side of myself that find the spiritual, the metaphysical, the unexplained, the irrational utterly fascinating and beautiful...and the careful thinker who's been basically taught (socially) that all of those things are nonsense for stupid, weak-minded, illogical people who don't properly understand science and need delusional superstitions to make sense of reality.

I've been tooling around online and developed an interest in a subject that rather necessitates spiritual improvement. I can't bring myself, though, to take much on faith (and it bothers me how much "evidence" in favor of the spiritual existing is either taken by parapsychologists or spiritual teachers, or is actual science "twisted and misinterpreted" according to scientists and scientifically-minded people. The word "energy" is the first thing that comes to mind, or how people twist quantum physics as evidence of spiritual realms...). I can't accept that the rational and spiritual operate in some kind of separate realms where one doesn't have to abide by the other. Even though I want to. I want to so badly. But then, any effect I experience will just be my mind tricking me, or a placebo effect, and I'll be ridiculous. At best, I look at it as symbolic...but that's not enough, I know that.

I'm more afraid of consequences than anything. More afraid of being seen as stupid and backward (including viewing myself that way), irrational and illogical. And therefore a terrible person.

I'm not religious, not Christian. So any "let go, let God" isn't going to mean much to me. But I guess I wonder...how can I open myself up more and let myself experiment with less shame and fewer mental blocks?

Why are you denying your own perceptions ? Are you inside some kind of intellectual circle that will ridicule your views ?
What are you afraid of ? What consequences ? Stupid and backward ? You seem like a person with an open mind which is a good thing. You should not have this inner conflict with yourself. Shame and mental blocks ? Sounds like you grew up in a very strict religious back round. You literally seem to have the fear of "God" in you.
PM me and tell me more.

[continuosly blue]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Thanks all. I just spent the past day or so stressing over how one is supposed to adapt to the reality about how everything we experience, feel, think, perceive is reducible to our brains d biology. How nothing beyomg the physical exists according to modern science, certainly nothing spiritual is valid except as self-delusion.

What this makes me think, is that one isn't really "allowed" to enjoy anything unrealistic, entertain the idea of extra normal things being valid except as entertainment.

When I wrote this, I had been exploring some, er, very fringey stuff. Then skepticism overtook me and I couldn't bear to let myself believe I could develop powers, that unidentified energy exists and can be manipulated. Now, however, I'm just stressing about concepts and feelings. How can you take those seriously, even talk about them as though they are valid things when they're just brain states, nothing more than firing neurons. How can you talk about things like love, justice, or spirituality like they're things when they can simply be located in the brain? They aren't things that come from nowhere; they're indistinguishable from anything physical because nothing else exists. Why discuss them as things in themselves? Maybe it's true that science has overtaken philosophy d usurped it as a source of personal knowledge. All we need to know is neuroscience and that will give us all the answers - and correct ones too - that centuries of literature grasped at.

Yes, the thought of this makes me kind of sick with anxiety. The certainty of it, and the limitation of it. No wonder I've been feeling spiritually zombified.

Nothing exists without your brain. when you die the world doesn't end , just you. All of your reality is based on your perceptions. The spiritual is just as real as a tree since the perception of it is coming from the same source. What's "real" is what your brain thinks or believes is real. Did you expect the spiritual to come from somewhere else than your brain ?

[continuosly blue]

[QUOTE=ScientiaOmnisEst;4769846]I never thought I was intelligent enough to experience existential angst. Better late than never, I guess.

------------------You don't have to be intelligent to experience existential angst.
It's something you FEEL.

I guess my solution (however long it lasts) is to just kind of...ignore it. It still feels dishonest to not adjust your worldview to new information, to not experience yourself differently knowing everything from nameless fear to transcendent inspiration is just a lot of neurons firing and shouldn't be taken seriously.

-------------I don't mean to offend, but that sounds like a ridiculous statement.

But I know I'd be happiest to continue to feel those things as they come and conceptualize them abstractly and talk about concept as though they were things. Even if that makes me a crappy person who would rather be happy and ignorant. And yeah, it also gives me the right to explore things even if they're irrational and not real.

---------------So the fact that your science doesn't understand the "abstract" and "concept" as you call it, makes you feel like a "crappy" person ? And believing in the "spiritual" would make you an ignorant person but happy ?
I'm very happy that you now have permission" to explore the irrational and not real." Also if open-mindedness and inquiry make you feel "crappy", I would suggest you seek out a therapeutic consultation, at the least.

First of all you've just insulted about a few billion people with your ridiculous
scientific view of things as a-priori
Secondly, I'd just like to say I'm sorry your in this quandary in your mind.
I propose to accept BOTH concepts as valid in the human experience.
Therefore opening your mind and end your " existential angst ".

BTW: What scientific field are you in ?

[continuosly blue]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

While not a spiritual thing, I seem to have gone from worrying about neuro humanities to reviving old anxiety about the impending singularity, the prospect of human obsolescence, of extinction of our own making.

I think my spiritual journey needs a strong basis in living in the moment and making oneself happy. I'm fairly sure that if I were internally calm, maybe had some meaningful relationships, I'd be less terrified of having even my meager creative skills replaced by a hyper intelligent machine. Hell, even if I could be happy in myself, I'd be less afraid of anything. Or so I'd like to believe.

This is surely a mental health issue. Of course there's so much you left out initially.
You must be very lonely.

[continuosly blue]

[QUOTE=ScientiaOmnisEst;4778491]It never ends, does it? Read some stuff about how spiritual people are gullible and less intelligent, how admitting you're into any of that makes you a huge target because you're so easy to manipulate, and people lie and don't care in order to sell you things. And that obviously such things as altering oneself by will or spiritual energy do not exist. That Reality is magical and that should be enough (interestingly, that's a chronic condition of mine. Reality has always seemed inferior and dull. In fact, I find I relate to it primarily through fiction. Seriously, I come to terms with things by reading novels or dreaming up stories, because research stresses me out so quickly).

----------So you live in your own made up dream world ? Any professional here care to make a diagnosis ?

I know that I'm especially vulnerable due to my mental issues, my long-standing aversion to engaging "reality" for too long, and my general feeling of spiritual starvation. Yet the more I read saying it's all irrational nonsense only believed by people with no critical thinking skills, the more miserable I feel, and I wonder if I shouldn't just start studying the dull, real world. Force myself to learn the science I'm too dumb to learn (I failed enough college classes to know that)and all the analytical stuff I never cared for anyway. I just want to experience life, I just want to be calm and stable and be able to live without constant anxiety (something I know becoming a skeptic in any serious sense - you know, the kind of person who sees fallacies and biases everywhere. Another fear of mine being having to lose my natural feeling, intuitive tendencies in favor of becoming analytical and dry...), but it's impossible. I thought this would help, but I can't be that person. I can't be that idiot following woo and nonsense. I refuse to be part of that narrative.

------------You don't know what "woo and nonsense" is. Your admitting to no formal education at all. You sure fooled me. But then again you have fooled yourself by your schizophrenic sentencing, verbiage , and thinking.

I probably just think I'm skeptical, when I'm not really...if I were a true skeptic I'd believe the scientific evidence that says it all isn't real....that I'm just kind of stuck with material reality with nothing beyond it. Because it feels like excuses all around. If a decide to try it, I know I won't just be doing it for shits and giggles: my heart will be in it. I'll be doing whatever it is with the full intent of making it work as best as possible - which will only bias me. Of course I'll think it will work. Of course I'll see results because I want to...but I also may not see results (and experience all the effects that go with that) if I go about thinking "This is stupid and it won't work". I suppose I have a vision of it inspiring me enough to help me overcome myself, of teaching me strength....and also, yes, of opening a new and unknown world. Those are my interests. These are what I suppose I want from alternative spiritual exploration.

------------------You can want whatever you like but what you need is a reality check. Rather a course in what reality is.

------------------The rest of your total confusion I just deleted.
Get the help you need.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by continuosly blue

Why are you denying your own perceptions ? Are you inside some kind of intellectual circle that will ridicule your views ?
What are you afraid of ? What consequences ? Stupid and backward ? You seem like a person with an open mind which is a good thing. You should not have this inner conflict with yourself. Shame and mental blocks ? Sounds like you grew up in a very strict religious back round. You literally seem to have the fear of "God" in you.
PM me and tell me more.

I thought this thread got buried but, seeing as I could probably sue some spirtuality in my life right now, I kind of want to reply to this.

I actually didn't grow up super-religious, though my spiritual ans sexual anxieties might suggest otherwise. My parents were semi-lapsed cafeteria Catholics (though I've noticed my mom getting more religious as I get older), and I went to some not-very-strict parochial schools all my life. To this day I don't know what Catholic guilt is, for example.

The shame and mental blocks are secular, scientific. A matter of being seen by rational, intelligent, thinking people as a stupid, superstitious, backward idiot too weak to face the world without some supernatural lies to pacify them. I'm not in any formal intellectual circle but I hang out online with enough people who would take this kind of view to be wary. And I consider these people better than I am for other reasons, mainly that they're more intelligent and their skepticism is a byproduct of that. The sort whose only interest in spirituality is trying to figure out why people are so stupid as to believe that stuff, or who will only discuss it by debunking it.

Besides, what am I doing, really, by believing in something with no evidence.

I'm afraid of being stupid, of being even more inferior than I already am through a total inability to be logical or realistic.