Let me start by saying for anyone that doesn't know me or my history, that I'm not a physicist and so have only a basic grasp of quantum mechanics. Anyway I had an epiphany last week about Schroedinger’s cat and how I feel it relates to my obsession with finding my truth. For those who haven’t heard of it: there’s a cat in a box with a vial of poison that could open at any moment, and we can’t know if the poison has killed the cat yet or not without opening the box, so until we open the box, the cat is both alive and dead.

Now when I first heard about it a while ago, I struggled to understand and thought that the cat is either dead or alive, and we just don’t know which option until we open the box. So there is a truth that can only be discovered on examination of the box contents. And I thought I was the same and I just had to examine myself closely to figure out the truth.

Anyway, last week I was thinking about how conflicted I am, thinking opposite things at the same time, and searching for the truth as if it is a tangible thing, and it made me think of Shroedinger's cat. And what I realised was that I AM SCHROEDINGER’S CAT!!!

Quantum mechanics says that we can never know with any certainty how an atom will behave naturally because the second we examine it, we alter it. Observation isn't passive: it exerts an effect. And physicists who study quantum mechanics think that reality, at it's deepest level, is really just the response of the observer. And that’s the same with people because observers influence us and they can force us to fit in their box by projecting their beliefs about us onto us.

So back to me being Schroedinger's cat: I thought that I was EITHER a fraud OR ill and I just had to figure out the 'truth'...but maybe I am BOTH a fraud AND ill until somebody observes me and makes me momentarily choose one option...? So if I am both, then I am also neither and there is no ‘truth’.

Now the point of my posting was that T today said (about something slightly different, but I feel it’s related) that I could choose to pick a lie that made me feel better over a lie that made me feel worse, but I don’t know if that could work in reality?? If there is no truth, then I could theoretically choose to operate under the last lie that made my life make sense to me BUT:

1) Is that moral? (Am I still stuck in duality: truth vs lie, moral vs immoral thinking? If there is no truth, then can one lie be ‘better’ than another?)

2) Practically, how do I tell myself that my chosen lie is now my truth, and feel like I did before when I thought it was the (real) truth?

Any insight appreciated.

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

The problem with this is the cat already knows whether it's alive or dead, it's only the outside observer that does not. In that manner you should know whether you are a fraud or Ill whether we or your doctors know or not. The problem is you are relying to heavily on external observers in lieu of your own judgement.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

The problem with this is the cat already knows whether it's alive or dead, it's only the outside observer that does not. In that manner you should know whether you are a fraud or Ill whether we or your doctors know or not. The problem is you are relying to heavily on external observers in lieu of your own judgement.

Exactly this. Well said.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

The problem with this is the cat already knows whether it's alive or dead, it's only the outside observer that does not.

The cat might know it's alive, but it won't know that it's dead, because it'll be dead. Anyway my understanding of quantum mechanics is that they are saying that the cat is BOTH ALIVE AND DEAD until the observer opens the box and forces the cat to pick a reality. So not how we normally conceptualise reality, which is how I got so confused by it before.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

In that manner you should know whether you are a fraud or Ill whether we or your doctors know or not. The problem is you are relying to heavily on external observers in lieu of your own judgement.

You are assuming that 'fraud' and 'ill' are universal truths, but my point is that they are not. I used to believe they were too, but then the observers confused me. Now I see that they are social constructions. The difficulties feel 'real', but the explanation for them is constructed. So if I can construct an explanation, is it moral to pick the construction that makes my life easier and makes me feel better about my (constructed) self? And I need to know how to feel final in my decision so I can stop torturing myself with confusion.

I hope that makes more sense now, though I do appreciate you & Atypical replying.

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

The cat might know it's alive, but it won't know that it's dead, because it'll be dead. Anyway my understanding of quantum mechanics is that they are saying that the cat is BOTH ALIVE AND DEAD until the observer opens the box and forces the cat to pick a reality. So not how we normally conceptualise reality, which is how I got so confused by it before.

*Willow*

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The cat is used an an example to show that quantum physics does not work all the time not to validate it. The idea is that the cat being both alive and dead at the same time is in fact impossible despite the fact that quantum physics would predict it to be both alive and dead at once. Therefore there is a point at which the math we have for quantum physics does not apply. The physics of subatomic particles is vastly different than it is for cats or humans for that matter.

[faerie_moon_x]

I would say you are ill. And not a fraud. Here's why:

Looping obsessive thought brought on by an outside catalyst.

In this case your catalyst is being told you're a fraud. And you can't say that you are, but you feel you are, so now you must research endlessly to find out if you are.

This is not the action of a fraud. Perhaps the action of an ill person who would like to know they are not ill, even if that means actually being a bad person for faking.

I've been gone for a while now and this was happening to you all those months ago. So, this to me is yet another sign that even if your Dx was not the one you had originally, you still operate as a person like me. And I do the looping anxiety driven research and search for answers, too. Especially in stressful situations.

I don't think you're the cat. I think you're more like a rat in a Skinner box, and this jerk put you in a box with a button (calling you a fraud) that both electrifies the floor yet also gives you food. So you have to keep shocking yourself to get fed, but what you're feeding is anxiety.

[hexacoda]

My measure of what is moral is whether an action harms or has the potential to harm others. I'm not sure if that helps you, but it may be something to consider - who is being harmed by either option, if anyone? I don't believe in moral absolutes beyond what is most conducive for myself as an individual and for my communities.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The cat is used an an example to show that quantum physics does not work all the time not to validate it. The idea is that the cat being both alive and dead at the same time is in fact impossible despite the fact that quantum physics would predict it to be both alive and dead at once. Therefore there is a point at which the math we have for quantum physics does not apply. The physics of subatomic particles is vastly different than it is for cats or humans for that matter.

Yes I understand that the example was originally intended to point out a flaw in the theory, but there are physicists who argue that the theory still applies to bigger particles, including cats. From the article you linked:

However, since Schrödinger's time, other interpretations of the mathematics of quantum mechanics have been advanced by physicists, some of which regard the "alive and dead" cat superposition as quite real.

Now my post was not intended to induce a debate about whether we believe this is true or not. I merely use the example to illustrate how my thinking that the cat could be both dead and alive at the same time led me to think about other things we consensually believe to be absolute truths.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

I would say you are ill. And not a fraud.

Thank you Faerie, you are very kind, but I'm not actually looking for more observer data. As Sometimes said in her first post, I've had quite enough of that already.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

Here's why:

Looping obsessive thought brought on by an outside catalyst.

In this case your catalyst is being told you're a fraud. And you can't say that you are, but you feel you are, so now you must research endlessly to find out if you are.

This is not the action of a fraud. Perhaps the action of an ill person who would like to know they are not ill, even if that means actually being a bad person for faking.

I've been gone for a while now and this was happening to you all those months ago. So, this to me is yet another sign that even if your Dx was not the one you had originally, you still operate as a person like me. And I do the looping anxiety driven research and search for answers, too. Especially in stressful situations.

Whilst I have been mulling this problem over for months, I don't generally have obsessions, though I can see how this comes across as a fixation to observers. I am an intellectual sort of person and I typically solve problems by thinking about them but, before this confusion set in, problems were solved very quickly and so were never an issue. Thinking about reality wasn't actually set into motion by being called attention seeking, though that did greatly exacerbate it, but by being told that some of my experiences were outside of consensus reality and that therefore made me mentally ill.

I am not in denial, nor do I prefer to be considered a fraud over being mentally ill; quite the opposite actually! What I've come to realise is that terms such as 'truth' and 'fraud' and 'ill' are all subjective: they do not reflect tangible things, though many people believe they do (and I can understand why because I used to, and life was a lot simpler then!). The same with individual diagnoses - all constructed. I'm not interested in labelling myself with X diagnosis over Y, because it does not mean anything to me. I am not currently involved with psychiatry, nor do I think that it has anything to offer me. And my T isn't using a particular therapy that only works with a particular diagnosis: he is eclectic and has no interest in labels either.

What I need is a paradigm to explain my experiences, so that my world makes sense again (I wish I could find a way to be ok with the confusion, but I'm not and I don't know how to be). My post is about how to choose one lie over another and then be ok with my decision. T says this like it's easy, but I don't see how it is. I'm hindered by 28 years of thinking that there are truths, and so I'm not used to thinking and feeling that there isn't. I could decide to tell myself that grass is pink, for example, but how do I convince myself that? Like mantras never work for me because I don't believe them, but I have to believe that the grass is pink for it to work.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

I don't think you're the cat. I think you're more like a rat in a Skinner box, and this jerk put you in a box with a button (calling you a fraud) that both electrifies the floor yet also gives you food. So you have to keep shocking yourself to get fed, but what you're feeding is anxiety.

This is a clever image, but I don't really understand how it applies to my situation?? I'm not involved with psychiatry anymore, nor do I understand what the food is supposed to be?

Originally Posted by hexacoda

My measure of what is moral is whether an action harms or has the potential to harm others. I'm not sure if that helps you, but it may be something to consider - who is being harmed by either option, if anyone? I don't believe in moral absolutes beyond what is most conducive for myself as an individual and for my communities.

Thank you! Well 'truth' 1 could hurt me and my family & friends, but 'truth' 2 hurts lots of faceless strangers financially. It is 'better' to hurt fewer people than more, but what about if the strangers don't know that they're being hurt?? Ethics weigh heavily in my mind, always have, but I feel that my thinking of morality in this decision is still stuck in the idea of truth vs lie. Choosing a lie that benefits me over the truth that doesn't is bad in my mind...but if there is no truth, then is there no morality too?? I don't know...

If I could just resolve this fricking problem, then life would be so much less stressful for me! And a lot of other decisions would make themselves

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

Ok let's bypass the cat for a moment.....talking about truth 1 and truth 2... Most of us choose the consensus truth.....your problem I think is there is no consensus in this scenario. In part because no one can be truly aware of the inner workings of your mind. If you believe us you are ill if you believe the pdocs you are a fraud...the pdocs outrank us but there are more of us and we know how to spot a fraud as well because we have street cred. Thus no clear consensus.

Which world would you prefer?...If the disability is all that's stopping you from feeling comfortable why not go to work then?

Now if you can't go to work I would argue that you are in fact disabled in some way whether that is due to truth 1 or truth 2. Thus you are not hurting the nameless strangers because you are not capable of work. Many people are happy to support those who cannot work..I routinely donate to the food bank to help those who are struggling for whatever reason. Are some of those people getting food because they have spent all their money on superfluous things....yes but they still have no money and are hungry I want them to eat. So rule the nameless strangers out of your decision because they are not being hurt.

[Secretum]

We can't tell you if you are ill or well. I can tell you that many, many people, including me, have wondered this about ourselves.

I'm tempted to go off my meds to settle the question. If I get much worse (with both mood and psychosis) off meds, then I'm ill. If I stay the same, then I'm a faker.

Yes, I realize that's not the wisest plan...and I'm probably not going to do it.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Ok let's bypass the cat for a moment.....

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

talking about truth 1 and truth 2... Most of us choose the consensus truth.....your problem I think is there is no consensus in this scenario. In part because no one can be truly aware of the inner workings of your mind. If you believe us you are ill if you believe the pdocs you are a fraud...the pdocs outrank us but there are more of us and we know how to spot a fraud as well because we have street cred. Thus no clear consensus.

Yes, this isn't helping the confusion! Ill = PC people, Uni pdoc, GP. Nothing wrong = ex-pdoc and hospital, family, volunteer colleagues, acquaintances. Plus some people are inconsistent and change their minds all the time e.g. my parents, my T, my friends.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Which world would you prefer?

I would prefer to be ill than be morally defective (fraud, lazy, pathetic etc), but I'm not convinced I get to choose...and T says there are other options, but he won't tell me what they might be. I don't believe that I'm ill because I think that a lot of this stuff is real, but I don't feel like I'm making it up either. I think I'm a bad person, but I don't think I'm that bad to consciously do that.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

If the disability is all that's stopping you from feeling comfortable why not go to work then?

Yeah I thought about that, though if I was fraudulently claiming benefits, then stopping them and getting a job wouldn't make what I'd done ok. But I thought if I just got a job, then maybe I wouldn't have to decide right now...but......I really don't want to. And I can't really verbalise why. I just cry at the thought of it. Which isn't a reason not to work: I've done it before when I was being bullied by one of my bosses and I cried before every shift with her... But I'm confused as to whether I can't work vs I won't work cos they are 2 very different things.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Now if you can't go to work I would argue that you are in fact disabled in some way whether that is due to truth 1 or truth 2. Thus you are not hurting the nameless strangers because you are not capable of work. Many people are happy to support those who cannot work.

I don't know about the US, but people on benefits in the UK are heavily demonised by politicians and the media. Even people who are technically on benefits because their full-time working wage is too low to live on, look down on those who are on benefits who don't work. That's how powerful the rhetoric is. So, no, a lot of people who saw me passing fairly normally in society would not be happy to support me not to work.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

I routinely donate to the food bank to help those who are struggling for whatever reason. Are some of those people getting food because they have spent all their money on superfluous things....yes but they still have no money and are hungry I want them to eat.

Well you are a very nice person then! There is talk here about putting benefits onto special cards to restrict where/what the money can be spent on, because 'hardworking Britains' (who are likely getting working tax credits and child benefit etc themselves) don't want their taxes being spent on cigarettes or alcohol or drugs, or even iPhones or DVDs or lattes or cinema tickets. 'If people can't be bothered to work, why should they have/do nice things?!' That's basically the attitude here.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

So rule the nameless strangers out of your decision because they are not being hurt.

David Cameron and his cronies beg to differ.

Originally Posted by Secretum

We can't tell you if you are ill or well.

I've not asked for that, nor am I interested in yet another subjective opinion - no offence intended. I am drowning under all the various opinions I've been given and I cannot cope with any more. I want to figure out my 'truth', not adopt somebody else's truth for me.

Originally Posted by Secretum

I can tell you that many, many people, including me, have wondered this about ourselves.

Yes, I'd be interested in hearing how others have resolved this issue without just adopting somebody else's opinion.

Originally Posted by Secretum

I'm tempted to go off my meds to settle the question. If I get much worse (with both mood and psychosis) off meds, then I'm ill. If I stay the same, then I'm a faker.

Yes, I realize that's not the wisest plan...and I'm probably not going to do it.

Scientifically I don't see how it would 'prove' that you needed meds or not. Even slowly tapering off to minimise withdrawal effects which could mimic relapse, there is no way to figure out how you would be had you remained on meds.

...

I'm getting really fed up of therapy because it's not helping me figure things out and be less confused. And I feel like I have to censor all the 'weird' stuff because he doesn't seem interested in that, he just wants me to talk about my dysfunctional childhood. And I don't want to talk about crap that happened 20-odd years ago, because that doesn't upset me anywhere near as much as this confusion does, or the moon not talking to me because she's mad at me for telling PC about her, or the Govt torturing me etc. And so I feel like he's yet another person that doesn't want to hear what I really think and feel. But I don't want to stop going because I don't want to give up the illusion of having another person to talk to. And I like that he's not trying to ram the DSM down my throat all the time.

I really need more than 2-3 hours sleep a night cos maybe my brain would work better and I could figure this out?! But T says that I overthink things, and I know that I do...If I ignore thoughts, and go with feelings, my gut tells me that something is horribly, horribly wrong...but I still don't know what to do about it...



Anyway, I have to pretend to go to sleep because it's late and I have a pounding headache. I don't expect anyone to have any magical answers for me, but maybe knowing that someone has listened to my ramblings will at least make me feel heard and not swept under the carpet...? Christmas makes it even worse, because pretending to be happy isn't enough at Christmas, I have to pretend to be happy happy happy or I get crap about being Scrooge! Bah humbug!

*Willow*

[faerie_moon_x]

I can't keep up with all that is said. However I've come to my own conclusion about myself as being a non treated mentally ill person. I've decided to live with mad pride. So for me that means it doesn't matter what others think or what labels I'm given. It doesn't matter that I am not on meds now and I seem to get by ok without them. My illness is part of me and I embrace it and do a lot of work to stay well.

If it ever comes that I need meds or can actually get treatment, I won't fight it.

But maybe that's an outlook that could help you. It doesn't matter if you're ill or not. I don't think you were faking. You went through something and whatever it was effected you profoundly. It's part of who you are.

Thank you for the hugs Junk and Sometimes, and for the reply Faerie.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

I can't keep up with all that is said.

I'm sorry that you struggle so much cognitively. It really does make things so much harder.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

However I've come to my own conclusion about myself as being a non treated mentally ill person.

Do you mind saying how you came to that conclusion? Also weren't you hoping to get into treatment, or have you now chosen not to?

I think that the construction of mental illness has value even if a person doesn't want/value the support that psychiatry can offer. For me, having an illness means that this wouldn't be my fault, unlike if I was morally defective. But my T disagrees that the medical model has value, and he rolls his eyes any time I allude to 'symptoms'. Yet he did once suggest seeing my GP about an antidepressant - I laughed at him that time! I do find his inconsistency about this very confusing.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

I've decided to live with mad pride. So for me that means it doesn't matter what others think or what labels I'm given. It doesn't matter that I am not on meds now and I seem to get by ok without them. My illness is part of me and I embrace it and do a lot of work to stay well.

If it ever comes that I need meds or can actually get treatment, I won't fight it.

Do you really believe that you "get by ok" right now? It is subjective and so I can't tell for myself, but it sounds like you struggle a lot, especially cognitively.

How would you know that you "need meds"? Sometimes I wish there was some kind of tick box exercise that if you had x amount of difficulties, or a blood test or something, then that meant you needed meds. I've googled so many times hoping to find some kind of answer. Some people say that 'if you're asking if you need meds, then you need meds', but I'm not sure I agree with that, especially if meds haven't helped or made things worse in the past.

I don't know...Last night I talked myself into making a GP appt on Monday (well trying to what with Xmas and NY) to try olanzapine because I was really upset and overwhelmed and I thought maybe I could 'reset' back to the last time my life mostly made sense, which was when I was at Uni and Uni pdoc said I had SZA, and he wanted me to try olanzapine or clozapine next. And if it helped then maybe I would know, or maybe I just wouldn't care about 'solving' the problem so much anymore? But I was embarrassed and wasn't going to tell anyone that I was taking meds for something so trivial. But now today I'm back to thinking that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill and I need to stop being such a baby.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

But maybe that's an outlook that could help you. It doesn't matter if you're ill or not. I don't think you were faking. You went through something and whatever it was effected you profoundly. It's part of who you are.

I wish I could feel like it doesn't matter. It would make this much less stressful. I even told myself that if I was a truly awful person, then I wouldn't care if I was defrauding the Govt, but feeling guilt doesn't mean that I'm not doing it.

I just don't understand how I can NOT KNOW if I'm faking or not!!!?

My parents commented on my worsening mood/decreased productivity earlier. Part of me thinks that things MUST be bad for them to notice...but maybe they actually just noticed my increasing laziness?

*Willow*

[faerie_moon_x]

Well, so I know I'm doing okay because I get up everyday. I get dressed. I go to work. I know I don't work at the same level as the people around me. But, too damn bad. I do a good job for someone in my shoes. I spend time socializing wit co-workers at lunch. I get as much work done as I can. Then I go home. I make dinner. I try to help my son with his homework (he likes to fight me on it.) I play with my kids and spend time with my husband. I spend time relaxing.

The bills are paid. My kids are clean and fed and happy. Therefore, I'm doing fine.

On the meds front, really I feel my moods are a secondary problem. And with sheer will I force myself to keep moving regardless of them. I remind myself over and over again that my whole family will starve if if I fail.

But the cognitive problems have no meds. None. In fact, a huge complaint about bipolar meds is how they reduce your cognitive function. So it seems like I would be hurting myself more in the area I need more help in.

And basically, the meds road would be for a couple reasons. Depression becomes debilitating. Mania becomes debilitating. But I know that I'm going to have to judge that on my own. I mean I went through what seems to have been a major psychotic break in my early 20s and no one cared. I hear people saying family members take them to the hospital and that blows my mind. You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to just ignore problems if you just keep quiet about it.

So basically, I'm my ow caregiver and struggling is just how I live. Better to struggle than lie still and die.

Plus I'm really stubborn. If my mom could still go to school with only 5% body tissue, then this is a walk in the park by comparison.

But my therapist I saw this year said she has never in 25 years of practice met someone who works as hard as me to stay healthy mentally. She did say we'll work on figuring out my diagnosis. But now I have to wait to be able to see her again.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

Well, so I know I'm doing okay because I get up everyday. I get dressed. I go to work. I know I don't work at the same level as the people around me. But, too damn bad. I do a good job for someone in my shoes. I spend time socializing wit co-workers at lunch. I get as much work done as I can. Then I go home. I make dinner. I try to help my son with his homework (he likes to fight me on it.) I play with my kids and spend time with my husband. I spend time relaxing.

The bills are paid. My kids are clean and fed and happy. Therefore, I'm doing fine.

On the meds front, really I feel my moods are a secondary problem. And with sheer will I force myself to keep moving regardless of them. I remind myself over and over again that my whole family will starve if if I fail.

But the cognitive problems have no meds. None. In fact, a huge complaint about bipolar meds is how they reduce your cognitive function. So it seems like I would be hurting myself more in the area I need more help in.

And basically, the meds road would be for a couple reasons. Depression becomes debilitating. Mania becomes debilitating. But I know that I'm going to have to judge that on my own. I mean I went through what seems to have been a major psychotic break in my early 20s and no one cared. I hear people saying family members take them to the hospital and that blows my mind. You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to just ignore problems if you just keep quiet about it.

So basically, I'm my ow caregiver and struggling is just how I live. Better to struggle than lie still and die.

Plus I'm really stubborn. If my mom could still go to school with only 5% body tissue, then this is a walk in the park by comparison.

But my therapist I saw this year said she has never in 25 years of practice met someone who works as hard as me to stay healthy mentally. She did say we'll work on figuring out my diagnosis. But now I have to wait to be able to see her again.

You are awesome and I'm glad you're back on here---just had to say so

[faerie_moon_x]

Thanks Sometimes I appreciate that!

And Willow, this is what I mean: even if your illness was not the label you were given I don't think you were faking. I think a little piece of you would know. Faking = on purpose.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

Well, so I know I'm doing okay because I get up everyday. I get dressed. I go to work. I know I don't work at the same level as the people around me. But, too damn bad. I do a good job for someone in my shoes. I spend time socializing wit co-workers at lunch. I get as much work done as I can. Then I go home. I make dinner. I try to help my son with his homework (he likes to fight me on it.) I play with my kids and spend time with my husband. I spend time relaxing.

The bills are paid. My kids are clean and fed and happy. Therefore, I'm doing fine.

On the meds front, really I feel my moods are a secondary problem. And with sheer will I force myself to keep moving regardless of them. I remind myself over and over again that my whole family will starve if if I fail.

I really think you must be Superwoman to do so much for so many, despite your difficulties!

I used to be very determined and have lots of willpower. I still have some because I would do NOTHING if I didn't make myself, but I can only manage about 6 months maximum before things start to slip, like now. I never used to be lazy. I just need to try harder to squash private me and be public me more, but I'm not exactly sure how?

[deleted]

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

But the cognitive problems have no meds. None. In fact, a huge complaint about bipolar meds is how they reduce your cognitive function. So it seems like I would be hurting myself more in the area I need more help in.

This is one of my concerns with APs.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

And basically, the meds road would be for a couple reasons. Depression becomes debilitating. Mania becomes debilitating. But I know that I'm going to have to judge that on my own. I mean I went through what seems to have been a major psychotic break in my early 20s and no one cared. I hear people saying family members take them to the hospital and that blows my mind.

What constitutes "debilitating"? Left to my own judgement, I have no idea. I'm sorry that no one looks out for you

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to just ignore problems if you just keep quiet about it.

No, I really wouldn't.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

So basically, I'm my ow caregiver and struggling is just how I live.

Me too, but do you ever wonder if struggling is all there can be? As in, is it possible for things to get easier??

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

Better to struggle than lie still and die.

I'm not always convinced.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

Plus I'm really stubborn. If my mom could still go to school with only 5% body tissue, then this is a walk in the park by comparison.

I think that you minimise your own struggles. There isn't, nor should there be IMO, a hierarchy of illness/struggle.

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

But my therapist I saw this year said she has never in 25 years of practice met someone who works as hard as me to stay healthy mentally. She did say we'll work on figuring out my diagnosis. But now I have to wait to be able to see her again.

I agree that you work very hard, but I hope that you can see her again soon and get some support.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

You are awesome and I'm glad you're back on here---just had to say so

I agree! I really missed you when you were gone Faerie

Originally Posted by faerie_moon_x

And Willow, this is what I mean: even if your illness was not the label you were given I don't think you were faking. I think a little piece of you would know. Faking = on purpose.

Maybe...idk?

*Willow*

[faerie_moon_x]

I judge debilitating on observing my MIL. For depression she can sleep for days. Mania is different, though, because I don't know if I'd have insight.

I wasn't going to post this because I know that I need to shut up and stop bothering you all, but I'm still really upset.

I woke up today and Max isn't Max. He looks like Max, but something is wrong with his eyes or face so I know it's not him. He's a very good replacement really, but he doesn't have the lump that Max has on his side, but then maybe I didn't examining him properly because I dont really want to touch him? He looks quite like Max, and sounds and acts just like him, but something is wrong.

But maybe it is Max and they've just messed with my brain so that I won't recognise him?? They do enjoy torturing me. Either way, it's not this dog's fault. He didn't ask to be involved in their mind games. But it's creeping me out because he wants cuddles and I don't want to touch him or have him in my bedroom. I've distracted him with Max's toys, but just having him near me is freaking me out. And I can't tell anyone IRL because they'll just laugh at me for being silly

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

I wasn't going to post this because I know that I need to shut up and stop bothering you all, but I'm still really upset.

I woke up today and Max isn't Max. He looks like Max, but something is wrong with his eyes or face so I know it's not him. He's a very good replacement really, but he doesn't have the lump that Max has on his side, but then maybe I didn't examining him properly because I dont really want to touch him? He looks quite like Max, and sounds and acts just like him, but something is wrong.

But maybe it is Max and they've just messed with my brain so that I won't recognise him?? They do enjoy torturing me. Either way, it's not this dog's fault. He didn't ask to be involved in their mind games. But it's creeping me out because he wants cuddles and I don't want to touch him or have him in my bedroom. I've distracted him with Max's toys, but just having him near me is freaking me out. And I can't tell anyone IRL because they'll just laugh at me for being silly

*Willow*

You know willow there is a very famous delusion that sounds a lot like this...

Capgras delusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[newtus]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

I wasn't going to post this because I know that I need to shut up and stop bothering you all, but I'm still really upset.

I woke up today and Max isn't Max. He looks like Max, but something is wrong with his eyes or face so I know it's not him. He's a very good replacement really, but he doesn't have the lump that Max has on his side, but then maybe I didn't examining him properly because I dont really want to touch him? He looks quite like Max, and sounds and acts just like him, but something is wrong.

But maybe it is Max and they've just messed with my brain so that I won't recognise him?? They do enjoy torturing me. Either way, it's not this dog's fault. He didn't ask to be involved in their mind games. But it's creeping me out because he wants cuddles and I don't want to touch him or have him in my bedroom. I've distracted him with Max's toys, but just having him near me is freaking me out. And I can't tell anyone IRL because they'll just laugh at me for being silly

*Willow*

i had thought the same thing about my dad a few times before. in the past. one particular time comes to mind. i hadnt slept in a few days and then i had this really long sleep. i woke up and it was night time. i mustve slept for about 12 hours. i woke up and i thought i was in a FBI warehouse that looked like my house but i thought they replicated it to look like my house. i thought my dad was an fbi agent who used makeup and prosthetics to look like my dad. i started screaming at the top of my lungs when i saw him and crying and i told my dad (who i thought was not really him basically) to get away from me. i yelled at him and told him not to come near me. i contemplated calling the cops but i thought if i did i would just be killed by the FBI.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

You know willow there is a very famous delusion that sounds a lot like this...

Capgras delusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks. I did consider Capgras as a possibility if I subscribed to the illness paradigm, but I was never taught it could happen with animals. I've just googled it though and it is possible, and apparently you can also feel the same way about inanimate objects...idk.

Originally Posted by newtus

i had thought the same thing about my dad a few times before. in the past. one particular time comes to mind. i hadnt slept in a few days and then i had this really long sleep. i woke up and it was night time. i mustve slept for about 12 hours. i woke up and i thought i was in a FBI warehouse that looked like my house but i thought they replicated it to look like my house. i thought my dad was an fbi agent who used makeup and prosthetics to look like my dad. i started screaming at the top of my lungs when i saw him and crying and i told my dad (who i thought was not really him basically) to get away from me. i yelled at him and told him not to come near me. i contemplated calling the cops but i thought if i did i would just be killed by the FBI.

Did it go away on its own or did you have some kind of treatment (assuming APs)? How long did it last? It's horrible because this dog is looking at me hurt that I don't want anything to do with him, and I keep trying to tell myself that it is Max, but I know it's not and its creeping me out.

I don't know what to do! I can only do something about this if it's a symptom of an illness, because if it's real, then what can I do against the Govt?! But all I can do is try to get a GP appt for Meds, but that's not until Monday and it normally takes 3 weeks to get an appt, not even factoring in Xmas & NY or if my GP has booked additional time off! Unless I say it's an emergency, but crying isn't an emergency...

Idk! I need to pull myself together and go Xmas shopping. Maybe they'll swap him back when I'm out? Otherwise I don't know what to do

*Willow*

[newtus]

@Willow
it lasted for a few days straight. it went away on its own when i got more and more sleep. but after those few days i took some APs

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Yes, I'd be interested in hearing how others have resolved this issue without just adopting somebody else's opinion.

I finally came to the conclusion that what other people were telling me was so often wrong that my own evaluation of the situation, and of myself, was at least as good as anyone else's, and I might as well go with my conclusions as with anyone's! And I can change my conclusions over time, if I need to.

There is a technique of mindfulness that you use to examine yourself and your thoughts and memories, however painful and frightening that they are, without self-condemnation, without trying to avoid the pain (as much as you can do that, and it takes a lot of practice). I have found that more useful than just about anything else I have ever tried. Just try to look at everything and try to understand what it means, without condemning it, or yourself. (Others did a very good job of that.) Try to examine everything scientifically, as an interesting puzzle. I find it very rewarding, partly because it really does help make sense of things, and I find myself getting better at it, with practice.

I have not attained perfection yet, though...

[pachyderm]

Oh yes, on quantum mechanics: I am suspicious of people trying to apply a theory from physics to everything. Also, I don't think anyone really understands the quantum world that well yet. The famous physicist Richard Feynman is quoted as saying:

"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics."