Chapter 7: Anger and Aggression

I'm sure Dr Clay will respond for you.

Let me share that you have every "right" to be angry at a remark like that. As you correctly said, this reaction doesn't do you any good. There is a way to be angry and not feel it's harmful effects, but it takes work. I think what you said at first was great! (In that you felt the need to even address the guy though, idk.) But when you called him a name, that was overboard, imo. His ignorance showed, but then when you called him a name, it went from education to insult. He probably missed the message.

There are many ignorant people in the world, we won't ever reach them all. If you can find a way to rise up to that perspective, that would be really good, imo. Though it was a personal remark, it probably came from something his ignorant parents or peers gave him. Hopefully he will mature and learn. Sadly, many ppl in the world do not ever.

Does this incident lurk in your mind because of the list of things you shared (how you feel self destruction, worried about becoming violent?) That is a good thing to focus upon, imo. Thought stopping might help. You did plenty of it I think at the time. Keep working on it. Counter the thoughts that come into your mind. You probably felt and thought about doing much more than you did, but stopped yourself. Maybe go back through the scenario as you recall it, really attend to it, putting all the information there, where you were, who was there, was there music, what had you just talked about with someone, or done or eaten.. and then as you realize the whole picture, NOW stop and think and "redo" what you wished you had thought, or done. Or just insert, "I need to... at this point in the future... instead of... (what I did.) Break it down like a football play or a chess move?

Your mind wants to review it anyway, and make it right. What do you think would help you feel better that you won't react this way in the future?

TC

From Dr Clay's book: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I believe that one of your highest priorities should be keeping your vindictive anger, your self-serving (or others-be-damned) ambitions, and your resentment under control. The consequences of anger, such as being inconsiderate, mean, or violent, are behaviors; therefore, you need to have a thorough knowledge of how to avoid the pitfalls of anger and control your excessive aggression and other unwanted behaviors. (See Chapter 4

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> http://www.psychologicalselfhelp.org...4/chap4_1.html Behavior, motivation and self control ).

Chapter 5 link, frustrations, threats and conflicts: http://www.psychologicalselfhelp.org.../chap5_15.html

Maarten:

People following your posts on this thread surely appreciated your prompt feedback. I did. I suppose you are disappointed with having to do the study over again. But it should be easy for you...and it is a good opportunity to learn from relating differently and from relating to a very different personality.

I would encourage you to observe your emotional responses more closely and practice different ways of responding to people who tick you off and differently to people who who have attitudes that irritate you. It is a commendable skill. Continued contact with this group could be a very beneficial learning experience for you and for other group members.

drclay

drclay

fayerody & Anger & Aggression:

You asked how I found out about my cancer. The simple little blood test (PSA) is pretty accurate. As I've said before it is a test that occasionally should be done by every males' GP.

I'm feeling well and will be on vacation for the next 10 days. The entire family (about 20-22 people) will be vacationing centering around the wedding of my oldest Grandson in Austin Texas.

So, you will know I am feeling well and having a good time.

See you in 10 days.

drclay

I'll post a response when I can, sky. Thanks, though.

thanks, Dr. Clay..........i live 20+ miles from Austin! you are going to have a great time here in Central Texas!

i'm so glad that you're feeling well enough to enjoy this important celebration with your family........pat

I must be invisible.

Never mind.

BTW, I try to give plenty of time for members to read this thread, before adding new material. (Unless it's all connected closely.) My delay in posting is not an indicator of not reading or caring

The more I read of Dr Clay's book, well, I've read it, but the more I review it the more I see how valuable the entire book is, at one time or another.

Dr Clay will return next week I think... so be ready with posts and questions?

_Sky:

I'm back home. My first grandchild is married (a great kid and a charming wife). I have used two days to read my backup of email. Now, I'm responding to the important email.

I want to respond to _Sky's comments about my book. It is a long book and covers many, many common human problems. My experience with 3000 students who have taken the class for college credit is that many of them need to interact with other self-helpers in order to grasp the basic methods of changing yourself. There are so many self-help methods (see Chapters 11 to 15) and individuals prefer different methods. I still think in terms of thinking about the behavior, the feelings, the skills, the thoughts, and the insights--all these parts are important in almost every problem.

I have always felt that the group interaction--sharing ideas about self-helping--is very important. Good luck to you all.

drclay

Just popping out to tell that I've let go of my anger towards said person. I've learned how to respond to anyone being offensive, but I might have mentioned this earlier. I am still struggling with lots of things, but relevant to this thread, I still take things too hard (I automatically think of a statement to be an insult, rather than a joke, E.G.) I mean, I even considered ditching my best friend(s) because they "insulted" me. When they say something minor which might possibly offend me, I confront them with it, and they always tell me that I should not take it seriosuly. I know I should not, but I still do.

I might be so ultra-sensitive because I might be traumatized from my childhood (when I rarely stood up for myself, and had to face alot of %#@&#!), hence I over-do it this time around.

Pejorative:

You gave an excellent description of your anger. You gave us an understandable history and you gave us something to work with. We can all see ourselves getting angry at the rude jerk who insulted you and your history...besides he grabbed you by the arm. What an offensive guy!

You are trying to figure out how to deal with this kind of situation, including insults of your ethnic background:

- Forgive and forget?
- Meet and talk?
- Assault him physically or mentally?

I'd encourage you to consider another alternative: avoid being offended by this guy's prejudice, ignorance, and rudeness. Look up the Methods for Changing Your Emotions in Chapter 12, including Relaxation, Determinism (to understand him)--also in Chapter 14, Reducing Unwanted Emotions, and especially Desensitization.

I'm thinking that the best reaction you could have to offensive comments and actions might be indifference, in the sense of not getting bent out of shape by such crude comments. Just know them for what they are and to avoid considering it your duty all alone to correct them.

With this attitude, I'd be interested in a self-treatment plan you could devise that you believe might really work. I think of this reaction as really strong and far superior to over-powering this thoughtless and weak man.

Sorry I didn't respond to your post right away.

drclay

Dr. Clay,

Glad to see you are back, I was getting worried, you could of sent an email LOL...

Clyde

Thanks for the answer, doctor. I'll just post a short reply, as I don't really have the time to provide a longer one.

I tried the indifference tactic for three to four years. It did not work then (I felt crappy about it, pluss people could mess around with me without getting a rebuttal), and I sure as %#@&#! won't do this to myself again; someone stings me, they get a sting back. I don't really know why I am posting in this thread anymore. Guess I'm just adding my last thougths regarding this...

From experience, reckless behavior should be challenged. If not, they will see you as weak and insult you again, and again, and again... Horrible memories.

pejorative, if it's a question, i say "why do you ask"....puts it back on them.........and if it is a rude/hateful/offensive statement, i say "you may be right" and walk off. leaves them standing there wondering what in the heck i meant? i realize that it won't work every time, but it sure works about 75% of the time.......

Dr. Clay, did you enjoy Austin. i waved at you several times........ i looked all over for you at the dress rehearsal for Dancing With The Stars at UT. xoxox pat

In my book that doesn't solve anything. In fact, it could make the situation worse... unless of course, you have an ignore button you can push. LOL

I think it takes someone who is self confident to abate any rude or snide comments.

For me, it's still important to not let such comments go completely IF it's with someone I have to have contact with again in time. ( If it's a stranger, it's quite easy to ignore them.) I found that, for me, ignoring comments like that or making reinforcing comments only feeds them with assurance that what they are saying and how they are saying it is acceptable.

I wish I could always look for the reason behind the comment that upsets me. Is it really an attack on me? Does it really change who I am? How are they feeling that they needed to say that? How can I help them work through this? Those types of questions are a main focus for me, when I'm able to cogitate in a situation.

Moving along in chapter 7 http://www.psychologicalselfhelp.org.../chap7_18.html Page 18.
<font color="blue">
You might at first believe that dependency (Chapter 8) has very little to do with aggression, but that isn’t so. In Psychiatry it is a common assumption that a weak, submissive, dependent person is likely to be very resentful of his/her circumstances (but often is not able to express their anger).

Ask yourself: how many sacrificing wives and selfless mothers experienced resentment after the Women’s Movement increased their awareness? Answer: millions. Also, a famous psychology experiment described in chapter 8 demonstrates that dependency can drive people to be aggressive even though they aren’t angry.

Stanley Milgram studied compliance or “obedience to authority” by having a psychology instructor direct volunteer helpers to shock students as a part of an experiment. Actually no electric shock was given but the volunteers believed they were giving powerful, painful shocks (and felt very uncomfortable about doing that).

The study tried to find out: (1) What percent of volunteers would follow orders to shock someone? And, (2) How much pain would they inflict on the subjects? The answers they found were: (1) a high percentage of them were willing to administer (2) strong shock when urged to. The results showed that most people will do some very mean, cruel things just to comply with a person in authority whom they hardly know and may never see again. That study certainly relates to the willingness of ordinary Germans to carry out the horrors of the Holocaust.

Anger is usually directed towards people and most of the people who are targets of anger get angry in return. Most of this Anger chapter tries to explain why we get angry and what we can do to reduce or avoid anger. This is a complex matter—so many experiences make us more or less volatile, including our genes, our personality, our childhood experiences, our community, our social group, our frustrations with loved ones and children, our alcohol and drug use, etc. which are partly discussed in Chapter 9.

Watch some children and you will probably observe that some would prefer to fight than to be neglected. It is fascinating that people who live in small towns in the South provide an example of the influence of a cultural code of honor (Nisbett, 2005). Small towns and rural areas across the south and west to the Texas Panhandle have a preference for violent activities: football, hunting and shooting, corporal punishment in schools, and support for going to war. When asked if a man has a right to kill to defend his home, 36% of rural Southerners say “yes” but only 18% of rural Northerners say “yes.” Note: The murder rate in the South is 3 to 5 times higher than in similar northern areas. Why is this? Nisbett says it is because of the Scotch-Irish settlers there were herders (sheep, hogs, and cattle). Apparently herders the world over are zealous protectors of their flocks and property…and quick to take offense at the slightest insult. A Northerner would just laugh off a mild insult; the Southerner doesn’t overlook slights.

Lastly, anger plays a big role in our love and sexual relationships (see Chapter 10). Who make us the maddest? Often the person we love. Lovers have the power to hurt us deeply. For unclear reasons, people with intense anger (and maybe serious mental disorders) get involved in many kinds of sexual urges and activities. Examples: rape, assault, molestation, sadism, and masochism. Anger plays a role in impotence, frigidity, and pornography. Research has shown that watching more physically aggressive porno films increases the aggressiveness in males (Byrne Kelley, 1981).

On the other hand, sex therapists report that some loving couples have their best sex after being angry. In fact, Bry (1976), a female sex therapist, recommends that married couples try to make love to erase their anger. It may work for some but I’d suggest some other approach. I hope you are seeing that understanding and coping with anger (yours and others’) may require you to become familiar with many other emotions and lots of behavior change methods. The last five “methods” chapters in this book spell out in detail many ways of modifying behaviors, emotions, skills, thoughts, and insight, all of which can help you. This chapter is designed to be your guide

A suggestion: Think of something or somebody that really ticks you off. Then try to explain to yourself how that person may have learned to behave or think or feel the way they do.

I think I have said this kind of thing several times in my book and probably on this forum. I'm impressed that getting an understanding of how a person became who they are--the circumstances they have lived through, the relationships they have experienced, the hard times they have faced, etc. Even if one is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, I think we can explain (or conjecture) enough about a persons history that it becomes understandable to why the other person did what he/she did or does. Once you are there, it is less likely that one will hate the "enemy." It is when we conjecture that the other person have evil intentions--desires that hurt us--that we get mad. Those explanations of their behavior are our beliefs...which may not be accurate or fair. When we see that our viewpoints have contributed mightily to the development of our anger, they we are closer to having some empathy or compassion for the person we are mad at.

It takes careful thoughts to understand another person...especially one that has upset us at the moment.

drclay

Yes, I agree that being able to understand their background, what makes them tick, helps tolerate them now. However, with that said, I am reminded of Dershowitz' book The Abuse Excuse. Just because someone has a reason, doesn't allow them to get off the hook completely. Understanding who's "job" it is to correct them or help them get back on track, now that's the key.

<font color="#000088">I've found that all my emotions turn to anger,instead of being what they should be. Because when I was a child,I was not allowed to show sadness,and cry,or show fear,or any type of weakness of anykind. But my Mom taught me that violence was the answer to everything,if I was stronger,and could beat my opponent in battle,even just over a simple arguement. That meant,I was right,and they were wrong,and they had to crawl up to me,and beg for my forgiveness. My brothers were taught and raised the same way. We had to fight eachother physically, over arguements to determine who was right or wrong! I know inside that it wasn't right,but I was a child,I had to defend myself. I sure became a great fighter physically,when I grew up,but I also still carry so much anger with me,and don't know how to express the proper emotions,because I was never taught. Except for my Dad taught me how to Love. But the rest is just turned to anger automatically. </font>

I find that very reflective justice, and since you know this, you can continue to work on changing how you react to "everything."

When you find yourself angry, or becoming angry, what types of questions do you ask yourself, or what type of thought changing do you do?

I tend to use a watch word of WHOA! to myself, personally... and then go from there... it's a terrible thing to be angry. It's an emotion that, imo, is seldom necessary.

TC

Could only read tiny bits of this. I wanted to know how to talk to my son who gets angry at me. He says I put him in psych hosp. He was responsible for himself going in really.He physically attacked me when police were at the door asking about a crime in the neighbourhood. They took him in P.hosp. The 2nd time he went in by himself after living on a beach for 3 weeks. 3rd time his brother took him in when he was tremors. 4th time police took him in when he escaped ward. 5th time he took himself in after having bad thoughts. He still holds me responsible. In his anger he says; "you don't know me mum. You don't listen to me mum. and similar...if i question him trying to know and listen to him he gets angry....one problem I have is that my eldest brother used to get angry all the time....even to the point of pressing a machete into my throat..and anger really scares me...and makes me sad. My brother is now dead after a very sad life....I could see where his anger came from...but with my son I haven't got a clue...unless its his dad...but he would deny that...his anger always seems aimed at me...