Needing help re: virginity and relationships

No - it would be through love that would be a bit unrequited and sad, in the final accounting, but still love, and with a call girl (which otherwise would be a great idea, except for not satisfying the love component of OP's hopes; to the extent that virginity is a threat to OP's physical existence, I believe it might be OK to drop the love component but it is his choice) it would not be.

Thank you, thank you, thank you You've hit the nail on the head with my issue. I believe it's part of the circular logic concept which hurt me in my previous career (and in some weird way triggered these feelings). Women want a guy with some form of experience, how am I going to get said experience if they don't want a guy who hasn't had it? But more than that, it's a two-part issue. I direly crave BOTH love and sex. In fact it's the ONLY thing I want in my life right now with everything else stabilized. I want the love first before the sex, but I believe lack of sex is inhibiting my ability to be loved. It's just a matter of my moral foundation of not wanting to pay for sex.

How about looking on the internet on sites where people look for no strings attached sex?

I have to be honest, a lot of women don't really want a virgin in his 30's. I know that sounds hurtful and I'm not doing it to be nasty. But you know yourself that with women it's different, if a woman sleeps around she gets unfairly accused of being a slut, with men they get looked at as a bit strange if they haven't had sex before 25.

It's unfair but that's life unfortunately. A lot of women will judge you on it. I think it's because there's the thought that something must be wrong for you not to have sex at that age. Female virgins often get respect but male virgins do get looked down at.

You can pay for sex or not. I'm not trying to want to will you into anything you don't want to do. It's your life and if you think that's not the way to go then that's fine. I also think you have to be realistic. For some people they never find that love or that special someone that you so desperately want. You don't want to have regrets. Saving yourself for someone who might never come along and even if someone does, it likely won't work out the way you expect it to. You need to think about yourself first and foremost. You say you're depressed about being a virgin. Well if not prostitutes or callgirls, then try a looking for a **** buddy, or something else like that.

You gotta be able to walk before you can run. I still you think even if you had sex just the once, it would relax you a bit and you'd be more likely to attract the type of woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. As things stand, you're going around in circles. You want a GF but you're so insecure about being a virgin that it's showing, maybe you don't notice it, but woman are apparently 6 times better at picking up on body language then men. So you're insecure about being a virgin, you feel woman don't a virgin and so it shows and you end up alone. So if you lost your viginity, you'd no longer be insecure about being a virgin and maybe you wouldn't end up being alone anymore.

wrt (1) ak482 is not saving himself for anyone, and he stated so explicitly in the OP.

wrt (2) Everything he has written so far has been written about the quality of experience he hopes to get for himself, so he has stayed squarely within (2).

With those caveats, maybe a site that pairs up people for sex is a good idea.

1. He's not actually said he's saving himself for someone but suggesting he wants love and sex combined seems to imply this.

2. Yeah okay, fair enough about number 2.

It has absolutely no relationship to saving himself for someone. Wanting love and sex combined means wanting a special experience for himself, not for the other party, so there is no connection to saving himself for another party, and he preempted this sort of speculation by clarifying that no religious beliefs are in the picture.

What I have been trying to point out is that ak482 does not have any problems with writing. He does have a problem with delayed/uncertain sexual debut, but not with writing - he writes clearly, concisely, and eloquently (the part about "genuine terror" is very eloquent - right?). So when somebody makes an effort to write so well, it makes sense for the audience to reply to the words as written, without making assumptions.

How about rather then trying to look to score points from me you offer him suggestions? You offered one about a sex surrogate and then you offered nothing else but spout nonsense.

I don't think you should bring it up until you are sure it is going to have sex soon. Think about the opposite. Would you want a girl to say I've had 50 or 60 partners? With the exceptions of diseases, I dont think you have to disclose your history. Whether it is 0 or 100. The important thing is the relationship and what sex means in it, not what has happened in the past.

I wouldn't worry about the issue of not knowing how. Sex is not that difficult. I know it must be frustrating or disappointing to not had sex by the age of 30, but it doesn't make you any less of a person. Sex is a small part of a relationship. Trust, communication, mutual interest, the joy of being around someone you care for. If you spend 20 mins having sex that is about 90 hours a year. There are 8760 hours a year. That is about 1% of your time.

Just work on developing a relationship. Getting to know someone, having fun with them. Sex isn't the defining moment or the pinnacle of intimacy. I wouldn't try to fretbover it too much or be overly occupied by it.

I offered the suggestion of a fairy, which was accepted, in theory - but to notice that, one would need to read paying close attention to the words as written. Also, if you read paying attention to the words as written, you would notice that I actually did have a positive experience being a fairy giving the kind of birthday present OP needs, so I am not theorizing - at least, not just theorizing.

Also notice that while I suggested you pay closer attention to words, I never said that your suggestions were nonsense - in fact, I took my time to acknowledge that your suggestions, per se, were good, they just did not fit the needs of OP.

I know my suggestions aren't nonsense, I'm saying you're coming out with nonsense because all you're trying to do is get into an argument with me and derail this thread. You're probably still butthurt because I put you in your place in your own thread the other day. Maybe if you stop spamming this subforum the rest of us might get noticed here.

That, and in the age of the Internet there must be lots of online tutorials. They would probably not be on YT though, because YT's policy equivocates on what is and is not allowed.

I have not yet read your responses on my threads because I know that I would need to respond, and I have not had the time. So I am not "hurt". Nor will I be "hurt" once I read them . Nor do you have the ability to "put me in my place".

This is Sexual and Gender Issues, not Argue Over Each Other's Posts. It'd really be great an end was put to it.

Butthurt is a nice new word - thank you.

Please be advised that according to your language, you use the forum in order to have somebody feel hurt and even "butthurt", or, using your idiomatic expression, "put in place". I would not report you to moderators, but would advise you that you are not complying with the community standards. Moreover, your non-compliance is to an extreme degree - my posts have been known to be deleted by moderators for much smaller violations of the guidelines (when I took issue with the content/subject matter rather than the poster herself), and still, they were deleted. In that vein, your posts are guaranteed to be deleted if somebody reports you to moderators.

I would seek some help in how to establish relationships. I don't mean to be cruel or anything, but someone sondetermined to have sex, even to the degree that they would consider ending thier life is in need of help. I think if you got to talk things out with someone you may get some feedback that is helpful.

I don't know you that well, but I think sex is just masking another basic need, and that is the need to feel loved, cared about and feeling like you are accepted. To have meaningful relationships that bring purpose to your life. I can imagine the emotional burden that would place on a person, and I too would question if life has any meaning.

Speaking from personal experience, I never learned the skills as a child that I need to be able to make connections with people. Neglect/family issues that I don't need to go into. But my point is sometimes we never learned how to do some of life's simpliest things like make a connction with someone and develop a relationship. I struggled for a long time, as a young child to being shy and withdrawn, to a depressed teen that could barely cope. Eventually things got so bad I had to make improvements in my life. To take care of basic needs and develop a group of people that brought a sense of belonging. I'm not happy and estatic with life, but I am able to have some hope, worked on myself to be able to learn the skills I was never taught.

My advice is to try and build some self confidence. People general like people who are sure of what they want and achieve thier goals. Presenting yourself in a very pessimistic or constant self doubt, or putting yourself down is a turn off for a lot of people. Try to curb this feelings to just thoughts and not say things that make it seem like you aren't good enough or that they shouldn't care.

Figure out what you want from a relationship? Is it sex, love, a child, someone be there, a trophy wife. People get into relationships for a lot of reasons. Being unsure what you want can send of message of not being interest or the other person gets a vibe of they just aren't into me and gives up. Sometimes it is ok to be selfish and want things, like sex. You can ask for it, and all she can do is say No. When I say ask, I mean tell her what you want, not "can we have sex?". Not demanding, just tell her how you feel and what you would like.

If it is just sex you are after then there are ways to get that. For better or worse, there are women that will exchange sex for money. If it is just the act you are after that is a sure way to get it. I get the feeling that it is not sex, but the lack of a meaningful relationship that is causing you heart ache. I wish luck and hope you find a way to address this issue.

No, I use the forum to give advice, sometimes people don't like the advice I give and take it the wrong way, sometimes they get so offended they stalk me into other threads and start picking away at my posts in passive aggressive ways like you are doing.

You may want to re-read your own posts before you give me a lecture on the standards a poster should present on this forum.

Now leave it at that.

First off, I didn't realize my words could spark THIS much debate

Adam: what you said is correct. I don't want sex as a mere action but as the ultimate symbol of a loving and meaningful relationship. I simply am caught in the circular logic which states that those who haven't engaged in the act of sex (whether meaningful or not) at my age are pathetic little boys. I go into a date with a very positive attitude and keep the mood as light as possible, but apparently it isn't good enough.

I noticed you say you've brought up with some women you're a virgin and not with others. Did you notice any difference in attitude to the one's who you told and the ones you didn't? The best thing to do is not bring it up at all.

See -

So Adam got it and posted a long, thoughtful response addressing all the issues that were presented plus additional issues that he sensed existed, without being presented. You were giving advice that was unneeded - ak482 was clear on that. It is not that he did not like the advice - he tried to preempt that kind of "advice". So, I am sorry to say, but your ideas about fk buddies and paid sex, while brilliant in and of themselves, were derailing the thread (which is something you accused me of doing). Your last post is back on topic, though, so we can leave it at that.

Regarding passive aggressiveness - you just said that you wanted to hurt me, which means that you were being openly, actively aggressive (I am yet to read the openly aggressive language of yours). So why is passive aggressiveness wrong? You do not need to answer, that was just an observation in passing.

ak482, sorry about this.

To the original poster: so have you tried an olderish woman? Maybe the 20-somethings don't wanna hafta teach you or whatever, but an older woman might... you know...

Oh okay, so now you're trying to praise Adams post and at the same time put mine down. Hoping then I'll say something negative about Adam so then you can win your petty little point scoring exercise. Well I'm not falling for it. Adams post was very well thought out and intelligent, the complete opposite to everything you type. You're derailing the thread everytime you respond to me and I'm doing no better to be honest.

No I never said I wanted to hurt you, but then you know that really. Butthurt means you've got the grump about something. Actually maybe you don't know that. you don't seem to know a lot.

How old are you thinking? I'm generally comfortable with someone no more than 4/5 years older/younger?

I would definitely say do not tell her until you are about to have sex. It's not something any woman needs to know about you until you are literally just about to have sex with her. Technically, she doesn't even need to know then, but if you feel like you have to tell her, that would be the time.

Furthermore, I'm a little confused when you say you want a woman who will accept this part of you. Why does she have to accept it? Presumably after you find her, that part of you will soon go away. Nothing to accept.

It's obviously your decision, but I concur with those who have suggested you just have sex with basically anyone at this point and get the big elephant out of the room. Go to a bar and hit on drunk girls if you're not into prostitutes, although prostitutes can be pretty reasonably priced if you shop around and a lot of them will haggle.

I can think of the 19 year old me and the 27 year old me now and I have a different view on sex.

The 19 year old self was just getting to understand what sex is, and figuring out what it meant. I may have had a overly grandiose idea that sex was a pinanncle of romance. Yes in a way it is. The me now has a different view on it. Being married and having sex with the same person a lot, it isn't always about love, sometimes it is just about satsifying an urge. Maybe that is our brains yelling at us "MAKE BABIES". Sometimes it is full of passion, love and caring. Sometimes it gets wierd and you do things, and afterwards you say I'm not doing that again. Sometimes it just lacks passion and feels mechanical.

I've have had one sexual partner, so all of these experiences happened with the same women. Early 20's women may be a little jaded when it comes to sex, because they have so many guys trying to get in thier pants that thier first instinct is to say no.

I think a women in her 30's would have a much different view on it. Maybe a little more responsible and wants to find a deeper relationship that doesn't jump right to sex.

The only way you are going to find that meaningful relationship is to get out there and find someone that likes you and you like at the same time. You have to open yourself up and speak from your heart, fall in love. Get infatuated with someone that you wonder how you lived without them. It's not easy, but that is what we have to do.

Having prospects doesn't hurt either. A car, house and some nice clothes. Not vein, but like you carry yourself with pride. Not a requirement, but it tends to help. Its not really about money, but a statement that you are capable of putting forth effort and can reach your own personal goals.

Think of it this way. You only have to really find one person that digs you, and somewhere out there is a person that can look at you and fall in love. Yeah it sucks going on date after date, and coming out short handed, but you are just trying to find someone who is into.

If it is any glimmer of hope, my experience with my wife has told me that closer women get to thirty the more they want children. Since I dont have a ticking clock on when I can make sperm in can't really relate, but it is could be a motivation for some women who will willing to form.a relationship. Just food for thought.