[muse]

I know this is probably way over-asked, but I have to get your opinions on this, it's driving me a little crazy....

I came out as bisexual to my parents at the beginning of May and they completely pulled away from me. Things are better now, but that period of having them out of my life allowed me to really examine my relationship with them, especially my relationship with my mother.

Now, mothers and daughters always fight. I know that, and I know I've not been the easiest child to deal with. But the more I talk to people about it, the more I've been told that some of the things she's done to me and said to me aren't within the realm of "normal" mother-daughter confrontations. I'm a pretty sensitive person, so it's hard for me to parse out what's me just overreacting and what's her being genuinely over the top, what is her just being kind of controlling and what might be considered out of line.

So.... how can you tell? Where does a behavior, an action or a word cross the line from being "hurtful" and into the realm of "abusive"? I just don't know.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by muse

I know this is probably way over-asked, but I have to get your opinions on this, it's driving me a little crazy....

I came out as bisexual to my parents at the beginning of May and they completely pulled away from me. Things are better now, but that period of having them out of my life allowed me to really examine my relationship with them, especially my relationship with my mother.

Now, mothers and daughters always fight. I know that, and I know I've not been the easiest child to deal with. But the more I talk to people about it, the more I've been told that some of the things she's done to me and said to me aren't within the realm of "normal" mother-daughter confrontations. I'm a pretty sensitive person, so it's hard for me to parse out what's me just overreacting and what's her being genuinely over the top, what is her just being kind of controlling and what might be considered out of line.

So.... how can you tell? Where does a behavior, an action or a word cross the line from being "hurtful" and into the realm of "abusive"? I just don't know.

I don't know where you are but Im in the USA. here the word abuse means different things to different people. Example I would consider getting slapped in the face abusive but someone who is into disciplinarian relationships don't consider getting slapped or a spanking abusive. in some states its considered abusive to spank a child and in other states it is not considered abusive for parents to spank their children, in some cultures its abusive for a man to make every decision for a woman and in others its a mans right to do that for a woman, In some countries it is abusive and illegal for a woman to use birth control and in other countries it is a womans right to use birth control. in the USA it is considered abusive to do female circumcisions but in other countries its part of the rite of passage into woman hood. in some countries its abusive to force someone to have sex but in other countries thats a mans rights in marriage. in some places its considered child abuse to marry a child under the age of 18 and other places the woman has to be 21 and other places a man can marry a teen as young as 12. in some countries parents arrange the marriage of their daughters at their birth or shortly there after so that when the girl reaches puberty she goes to her arranged husband.

you can find out what is considered abusive where you are by checking with the police, a lawyer, therapist or doctor or research the topic for your state/country at your local library.

[Tatyana2009]

Generally speaking abuse entails a degree of discount, invalidation, violation of boundry, misuse of power, lack of empathy, etc.

If you feel confused, angered, helpless, discounted, constantly worrying, on guard, etc - these are signs that you may be being abused.

Maybe worth talking to a therapist to examine?

[AShadow721]

Originally Posted by muse

Now, mothers and daughters always fight.

No, mothers and daughter don't ALWAYS fight. Not all of them at least. That's a hint.... I'm just going to say, if you have to ask, then it probably was. I don't think there's any over-reacting, it's how you felt about it, how it made you feel, that makes it abuse or not. Of course, the abuser has something to do with it, what they did do, but if you think it could have been abuse, it probably was. But you'd have to say what exactly was said or done for anyone to be able to truly determine if it was abuse. But, I think that your parents shunning you for your sexuality is abusive and very hurtful. Acceptance of the real you is a basic human need, which seemly your parents denied to you.

[muse]

Well.... mom has slapped me across the face a few times. Less than five I think over the course of my life. It may have been more but I don't remember all the stuff that happened when I was really really little, and most of that was just basic discipline that parents do to kids.

I guess what bothers me most is stuff like she's constantly making me feel guilty for things. Everyone in our family knows she does it, and she does it to everyone, but I think it affects me more. Like... a few times I've been in a really bad place and she's poured out this speech about how much money she and dad have spent on therapists, educational testing, etc., and how none of it seems to have any effect. She's also really passive-aggressive, like my brother and I will ask her if she needs help with something, she will adamantly (to the point of getting angry) refuse, and then yell at us later for being lazy and not helping. For a few years she'd criticize my clothing choices at least weekly before school, to the point where I felt ashamed and hurt. She's said pretty mean things about my body before, but most of that was couched in helpful stuff like, "You need to get out more, be more active, join a gym" and was in response to my own really low self-esteem.

The only thing I can really say was significantly abusive was when she basically locked me in a changing room at the mall and wouldn't let me leave until I'd tried on all the clothes she kept bringing in for me, even though none of them fit and I was crying because I was so ashamed of my body and so frustrated.

Sorry, I know most of you have dealt with stuff that's about 100 times worse than this and I probably seem kind of trivial to you all. But I do appreciate you reading. I will talk to my doc about this when I see her next, which should be within the next few weeks. Hopefully she can give me some insight as well.

[AShadow721]

Your mother kind of sounds like my mother and uncles with her hurtful words. They were raised in an abusive home and they try to not be abusive, but they are just too blunt, don't think about if what they say could be hurtful. It's just because the way they were raised, they can't get rid of all of it no matter how hard they try.

Her slapping you on the face, that's definitely abusive. Parents shouldn't be slapping their kids on the face.

What do you mean by "basic discipline that parents do to kids"? What happened in your home could be considered "normal" to you, you might think it happens in all homes, but it might not, or the discipline could have been excessive. I was physically abused, but it was in the name of "discipline". That was just an excuse.

The guilt trips are emotionally abusive since parents are supposed to be taking care of their children, not complaining about them wasting their money on their needs. They brought them into the world. But she can be saying these things to get you to try more in your therapy. My mother wouldn't complain about the bills, but she would complain that I wasn't getting anywhere in therapy. I wasn't opening up enough or be honest enough.

It sounds like your mom is probably being triggered by you asking her if she needs help. That's why she is getting angry and then acting like she never got angry and said no. It's not right for her to call you lazy though.

My mother and my uncle complain about fitness of their children. My mom would about my sister, but a while ago, I realized it was my grandmother that had the problem that made them this way. But since I witnessed my mother saying those kinds of things to my sister, I think that's definitely abusive. But she may just want you to be healthier.

Your mom might have just wanted to buy you clothes that fit you right or that she wanted you to wear. That sounds like it was just made worse by your own feelings about trying on clothes. Was she aware that it was torturing you? When you were crying did she act like she cared and still wanted to help you find something that would fit you or did she tell you "You better try these on right now, stop your crying!" ?

It sounds like maybe your mom is trying to be a good mom, but not doing it the best, because maybe she didn't have the best example. She may be trying to tell you good things, but not saying them the right way and you are taking them offensively. Moms and teenage daughter do tend to fight more, because before this age the daughter looked up to the mother, and now they are want to find themselves. But if she's damaging your self-esteem by what she says, that's emotional abuse. And the slapping in the face, that's not right.

[Irine]

Originally Posted by muse

I know this is probably way over-asked, but I have to

So.... how can you tell? Where does a behavior, an action or a word cross the line from being "hurtful" and into the realm of "abusive"? I just don't know.

Simply: when you feel it!
It can be different to everyone. There is no general line to this. Very different from person to person. Its LESS judging as "Is what she did okay or not" and MORE : "How do I feel about it? How do I react? What do I need? Why do I react this way?"

If we feel we are abused - which usually involves feeling blame like we deserve the abuse (repressing that we lose control of ourselves by allowing the other to cross OUR declines) Dependency on the abuser, a feeling that they are a threat to us, terror, fear, helplessness. Can evolve physical pain while thinking of it - we are BEING abused - even if the abuser is innocent and does n`t understand it.

The first thing is to admit we lost control of ourselves and that we allowed the other in. To understand that we don`t deserve and it will ALWAYS be OUR role to set the limits...the decline. Whatever word you choose for it. We will protect ourselves. If not us - NOBODY will do it for us.

When we become aware - we are no longer victims. We can start stepping out of that to being the "captains" of our lives!

[muse]

Originally Posted by ladymacabethadmunsen

If we feel we are abused - which usually involves feeling blame like we deserve the abuse (repressing that we lose control of ourselves by allowing the other to cross OUR declines) Dependency on the abuser, a feeling that they are a threat to us, terror, fear, helplessness.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL!! Or have felt, and am beginning to unlearn recently. I always feel like I deserve it, like I am not valid, like whatever her reaction is, it's my fault. She's also controlling to the point where it's invasive, especially about clothing and who my friends are. Some of that's normal ("Don't wear the booty shorts to church," "Don't associate with the drug addicts!") but since I'm actually quite competent most of the time it gets.... difficult. I feel as though I can never do anything right.

Originally Posted by ashadow271

It sounds like maybe your mom is trying to be a good mom, but not doing it the best, because maybe she didn't have the best example. She may be trying to tell you good things, but not saying them the right way and you are taking them offensively. Moms and teenage daughter do tend to fight more, because before this age the daughter looked up to the mother, and now they are want to find themselves.

That also sounds extremely accurate. Mom has an extremely hard time with the fact that, no, I am not her 3-year-old dress-up doll anymore, and has said as much to me.
My mom was abused when she was young, so that also leads me to think that her behavior might also be abusive.

[writingwithink]

I believe that what ladymacbet wrote would be closest to my response. One thing I can tell you: Searching for the answer to "What is abuse?" will generate a million different answers regardless of where you look. It comes down to how you were affected by it, I suppose. And I would take it a step further by saying that the degree of how it affected you would help you to determine if you need help with overcoming trauma. The degree to which abusive episodes affects one, I believe, is based on the enormity of the action and the length of time in which it happened. I've read many things that say a young person who is molested—if known about, stopped, and handled quickly—can heal quickly and move on. If not stopped and handled quickly, the effect will be much more burdensome on the person. The same, IMO, would be true for episodes of slapping, belittling, etc.

Regarding coming out to your parents: Unfortunately, we're still in a time where that reaction is common. Unless your parents are extreme, I believe they will begin to accept it in time. Probably not as you'd like, but to a certain degree that makes interaction somewhat bearable and potentially enjoyable. I've been there on two fronts: my parents (I don't talk about it with them, and I don't force the issue either) and my partner's parents (totally not talked about, but we love spending time with them).

[Sannah]

It is clear that your mom affected you in a negative way and you didn't get your needs met. You can come to understand how she affected you and how you can fix that in yourself and you can learn how to meet your needs now and basically get your development back on track.

[Irine]

http://www.lyrics.com/never-enough-lyrics-epica.html

[AShadow721]

Originally Posted by muse

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL!! Or have felt, and am beginning to unlearn recently. I always feel like I deserve it, like I am not valid, like whatever her reaction is, it's my fault. She's also controlling to the point where it's invasive, especially about clothing and who my friends are. Some of that's normal ("Don't wear the booty shorts to church," "Don't associate with the drug addicts!") but since I'm actually quite competent most of the time it gets.... difficult. I feel as though I can never do anything right.

That also sounds extremely accurate. Mom has an extremely hard time with the fact that, no, I am not her 3-year-old dress-up doll anymore, and has said as much to me.
My mom was abused when she was young, so that also leads me to think that her behavior might also be abusive.

When parents were abused as children, some just let that abuse continue in the family cycle. It's passed on from generation to generation. But some to try to make it stop. It sounds like your mom is one of those that tried to make it stop mostly, or at least be a little better than her abuser. She's not going to be a perfect mother. That past abuse is going to affect her parenting you in some way or another, because her own abuse still affects her. It's not your fault. The way she reacts, it's not your fault, that's her feelings. She's the one that chooses to feel that way. You're not the one she's mad at. She's mad at her abuser. That is how the generational abuse cycle runs in families. I'm sorry she's taking her anger with her past out on you. Yes, since she "learned" abuse as a child it is likely she is using some of what she learned with her own children. That's how she grew up. It can take a lot of therapy to unlearn these kinds of things.