[wi_fighter]

How do prove that someone's emotionally abusive when it doesn't leave any physical scars?

I just had an argument with my ex because my daughter called crying from his house to come get her. She'd been back there all of an hour. He said there are issues that we need to discuss. He's accusing me of lying and turning my daughter against him. He says I'm on drugs "you're on crack." I told him I'd be willing to take every drug screen known to man and they'd all come up negative.

I can't take it any more. I'm not perfect, but at least I'm protecting MY KIDS and not an overinflated ego and self importance like he is.

He told her she wasn't welcome there and that he was going to call me to come get her, then he hung up the phone and said he'd rather she suffered. When I told him that's what she told me, he says "yes, that's what I said, but it's totally out of context. It's to prove a point." What point is that? When you tell a 14-y/o girl to basically get out and go to her mom's, that's how she's going to interpret it, not how a 43-y/o emotional abuser interprets it.

I'm afraid I'm going to lose my kids over this, because he has my brain so twisted around that I don't trust myself any more.

[wi_fighter]

You guys in here only see half of the story. Maybe I am crazy and making it up. I don't trust myself any more. I believe HIM more and more. I think I hear him say things and then he denies them and says "listen to the things that come out of your mouth every day. You're clearly on drugs." Well, I know I'm not on drugs, but maybe I AM living in an alternate reality.

[dalila]

<font color="green"> No, you are not a liar or on drugs or delusional. What you are doing is dealing with a habitual liar who clearly requires mental health care himself. Can you tape his conversations with you? and perhaps give them to your lawyer? I would think with his viscous manipulative behavior someone will have to see that he is incompetent due to mental illness.

~D~

</font>

[h0kie]

Taping the conversations sounds like a good idea. Of course, unless you tell him you're taping the conversation, I don't believe it can be used in court. Could your lawyer put something on your phone to record all conversations? I don't know.

I would definitely get with your lawyer about this. Emotional abuse is still abuse, even if it is hard to prove. He shouldn't be allowed to do this to you or to your children.

[wi_fighter]

I've already been told by my lawyer that taping conversations is legal, as long as one of you knows it's happening. I'm just afraid to hear how upset I get when I talk to him. I'm afraid the court would say that I'm unstable and unfit to raise my kids because I can't calmly talk to this guy.

I'm upset because when we got mediation papers they said that if there was abuse in the relationship, mediation wouldn't happen. Of course that only applies to physical abuse since it's easier proven. Emotional abuse is based on each other's "perceptions." I perceive him as abusive. He does not. Yet he refuses to go to post-divorce counseling. Why? Is he afraid of having a third party witness the accusations who can say something about it? The mediator wasn't a counselor, so he couldn't say anything, so of course I could throw out all the accusations I wanted and I got met with a "shirley, shirley, shirley, this can't be discussed here."

If he's so insistent that he's right and I'm wrong, why won't he go with me to a mental health professional to learn how to deal with each other in a rationale manner?

Maybe I should just tuck my tail between my legs and say he's right, he's always been right, and I'm just too stubborn to admit I made a mistake by not listening and not supporting him enough. I know I can't do that, but I have momentary thoughts that tell me to lie, no matter how hard it is.

All I wanted was for things to be fair, not drag my kids into this hateful emotional war. Makes me even angrier with myself for not fighting right away and waiting 4 years.

[h0kie]

You can't just say he's right, Shirley. You know he isn't. Do you think you could be calmer knowing you are recording the conversation? Even if you get upset, that's ok. If you were an ice queen, that would be upsetting too. Tape as many conversations as you can, then let your lawyer decide how many, if any should/could be used.

Don't let him push you around like this. You're a good mom and a strong lady. Your kids will thank you for this later. We're always here if you start feeling down. And you know you can always PM me.

[irish_angel]

(((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))

I know exactly what you are going thru, not how you feel tho everyone is different, my sons father does the same crap to me, and he lied and lied to the judge.

Wishing you the best.

[wi_fighter]

Thank you both, Erin and Erin.

I've decided I need to start journaling to help me get through all of this.

I'm afraid to open my mouth for fear that the wrong thing will come out (it always does when I'm dealing with this jerk). If I keep my mouth shut, I'm being uncooperative. It's a no-win situation right now because I don't have any coping mechanisms in place to help me speak to him like a calm, cool, and collected human being.

[irish_angel]

So do you do what I do?? I open my mouth tooooo wide and let its all out and screw myself. I cant help myself with him..havent been with him for 8 years, but damit he has some kind of hidden power over me, Im working on it, I should journal it all too, he does, but I cant seem to do it, and I know how important it is, i just always stop myself.

**Hugs**

whos the other Erin hehe

[wi_fighter]

I think we're twins who married twins.

1dayatatime2 is Erin, too.

[h0kie]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
irish_angel said:
whos the other Erin hehe

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Me!

[irish_angel]

hehe well Hi Erin!

i know eh, I think men like them are breed somewheres lol

[h0kie]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
irish_angel said:
i know eh, I think men like them are breed somewheres lol

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Maybe some chlorine in their gene pool?

[wi_fighter]

More like spermicide.

[wi_fighter]

I've been debating leaving the site, not because I want to, but because I just can't bring myself to offer anyone else support. I feel selfish because I can't give anything back right now. It's been like this for months, mostly because of this court fight that I intentionally started, not realizing it would become this ugly. I can only see a bad outcome because of my inability to communicate effectively with a man who insists he's not abusive in any way. He called today and left a message on the answering machine. It was vague, just said to call him on his cell phone. If it's about something innocent, he always mentions what he needs to talk to me about, so now I'm worried he's going to be threatening in some way, telling me he won't let my son come for his week with me or something. My arms and face went numb, my pulse picked up, I felt dizzy and spaced out, just at hearing his voice on my machine. He scares me and I want to just avoid him altogether.

I'm afraid I'm borderline because of how I behave when I have to deal with my ex. I get in fight or flight mode, can't cope, can't think straight, can't even put together a coherent thought. I'm always on the defense, on edge, waiting to lash out. I always feel cornered by him. If I'm not feeling cornered, because he's acting "nice" at the moment, then I feel that he's trying to manipulate me by making me think I'm doing what I want instead of what he wants. He's a master at word play to get you to agree with him, and if you refuse to agree then you're just stupid, incompetent, stubborn, whatever.

I want to be supportive of others, but I just don't know what to say any more. I can't even offer support to women in the same position as me because I'm in this limbo of zero forward progress, so I can't give any encouraging words. Maybe when it's all said and done I'll be telling women not to fight, to just give in and do what's demanded of them or they'll never see their kids again, just lay down and roll over and take the punishment, forget regaining pride or power. Once it's gone, it's gone.

[Hope4me2]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ wi }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

you are not a liar! you are not a liar!

you're not crazy, he is. he's a self-absorbed, manipulative, controlling childish man. you know how i feel about him.

i still think that taping the conversations would be the way to go. it's easy to do. and it will affirm, to you, what he says and how he tries to twist what you say.......xoxoxo pat

[jmo531]

Shirley,

You have always offered support here to so many. Right now you need support and we are here to give it to you. Please dont leave the boards.

I can feel and desperation in your writing when it comes to your ex. How helpless you feel against him. When you have been abused either emotionally, verbally or physically for a long time it is hard to break to cycle of giving in to the abuser for the sake of keeping your own sanity. Many, many years I put up with that and it takes years to break that habit. Even now sometimes when my current hubby makes a sudden move, I will flinch because I was used to that from my ex. It has been over 11 years since I was even with him. I just think that the scars stick with us. Just stay strong. Trust yourself. Journaling is good. Start that and I would even tape a conversation here and there as well.

Please keep coming here for support. We are here for you. Take care hun.


Hugs,


Jen

[wi_fighter]

Thanks Jen. ((((((((((huge hugs)))))))))))

There was an uncalled for incident involving a phone call my daughter had to make to her dad today, a call he said she HAD to make before he would bring over her school supplies.

Between his g/f and him, she was in tears, and the call lasted less than 5 minutes. It's almost like he said she had to call just so they could knock her down some more. The g/f wouldn't let her talk to him until she checked their calendar, then she yelled loud enough for Alex to hear (sarcastically) "Your daughter wants to talk to you. She must need something." Yeah, school supplies that he already bought, that she has to have before Wednesday night.


It's only been 3 days since she came back here after her fight with him, and already he's said her brother can have her room and her bed frame.

If this is how he "proves a point" I think it's going to backfire. If he won't treat her decently until she goes back there, maybe she just won't go back at all.

[jmo531]

I am so sorry you and your daughter have to deal with him. He is only pushing her away and in time it will come back to bite him in the ***. What comes around goes around. I guess that is not much of a comfort right now.

Just be there for your daughter, support her and give her extra hugs. Thinking of you and her and sending prayers.


Hugs,


Jen