[purple_fins]

I was on a different site about 6 months ago, they were posting about some little girl(11 years old, I think she was) and how she had been kidnapped and the guy told her to stay in his closet while he went to work or he'd kill her..... so she did. Well, some people on that forum were saying how she was stupid and that if she got killed then it's not as big of a deal because she didn't fight back, she was too stupid.......(are they right? was she? Im not sure, feels that she wasn't being stupid-- but do I just not see that?... I promptly left that site and haven't gotten back there since..ugh)

and now with Elizabeth Smart back in the news and how she even evaded the police with her kidnapper as he told her he would kill her if she escaped, I worry that some people will think she was stupid too....

this is bringing my experience to the surface.... uck.... being held at gunpoint for hours, (I was 8) and pleading with him to let my little niece go-- she was three at the time... he did let her go... so then it was just me and my nephew (he was 6).... I did whatever he said to do as he said I would die..... (odd-- even now talking about it, my heart is racing... after all these years)
it was an open field with trees and tall weeds...
why didn't I run?...
was it self preservation?...
do other people that haven't experienced such a thing, understand the thoughts of those in the midst of it all?

I wonder....
or was I stupid??

a confused fins.......

[notablackbarbie]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

I was on a different site about 6 months ago, they were posting about some little girl(11 years old, I think she was) and how she had been kidnapped and the guy told her
to stay in his closet while he went to work or he'd kill her..... so she did. Well, some people on that forum were saying how she was stupid and that if she got killed then it's not as big of a deal because she didn't fight back, she was too stupid.......(are they right? was she? Im not sure, feels that she wasn't being stupid-- but do I just not see that?)

and now with Elizabeth Smart back in the news and how she even evaded the police with her kidnapper as he told her he would kill her if she escaped, I worry that some people will think she was stupid too....

this is bringing my experience to the surface.... uck.... being held at gunpoint for hours, (I was 8) and pleading with him to let my little niece go-- she was three at the time... he did let her go... so then it was just me and my nephew (he was 6).... I did whatever he said to do as he said I would die..... (odd-- even now talking about it, my heart is racing... after all these years)
it was an open field with trees and tall weeds...
why didn't I run?...
was it self preservation?...
do other people that haven't experienced such a thing, understand the thoughts of those in the midst of it all?

I wonder....
or was I stupid??

a confused fins.......

((((purple fins)))) THAT WAS SELF PRESERVATION!! Its part of human nature! Thank God for that! You are very brave. I cannot imagine being in such an experience... Each 1 of us facing danger - especially as a child - and encountering such violence goes into survival mode with the Fight/Flight/Freeze response. You innately/instinctivly went into Freeze mode = cooperating and considering the safety of younger family members also at gunpoint You at 8 were also versus an unstable person pointing a gun at children - if you had freaked him out in any way by running or fighting, the gun could have gone off... I am sorry that you are struggling with self-doubt & fear again now with these recent situations and memories Violence toward children in any way by family, friends, neighbours, strangers, peers etc is WRONG! You are very caring and brave to be able to do all that you did You are not alone...

[lynn P.]

((Purple fins)) - no I absolutely don't think you were stupid at all and you really didn't have a choice, so you did what you had to do, to survive. If he had a gun to your head, you didn't have a choice.

I also don't think we can judge the actions of a victim of trauma because they aren't able to think with a logical mind. They're traumatized and scared - they believe what the perpretrator tells them. It's easy for someone who's not a victim, to judge and estimate what would have been a better course of action. In your case I don't feel you could have done anything besides what you did and I'm so sorry for what you went through.

Child abuse and assault is a touchy issue for me because I was almost assaulted when I was 13. I promised myself that I would do everything possible to protect my own kids and spread the word on how to protect but also empower our children. From a young age I discussed how they should protect their bodies from anyone who might touch them. I think role playing is the best way - so I would come up with pretend situations and ask them "what would you do"

I think people and children need to be prepared how to react in a threatening situation - this doesn't apply to your case Fins. When it happened to me - I remember freezing in shock momentarily. Luckily for me, I found a way out. Most people freeze out of shock and that gives the perpretrator the chance to offend. If we prepare our children and ourselves with how to react, this could prevent many assaults. My kids know how to be an awful victim - they know not to be quiet, kick, scream and run away if possible.

I remember years ago, seeing an Oprah Show on how not to be a victim of crime. The expert said if you're confronted in a parking lot around people - it's better to fight and try to get away, than listen and get into the perps car and suffer a worse fate. Chances are they're not going to kill you in the parking lot in front of witnesses. Now if this is just a robbery to take your purse -then by all means cooperate. I'm talking about kidnapping.

I've told my girls - if someone was to break into our house at night and threatens to kill everyone unless she goes with him - I've told them, they shouldn't believe him and kick and scream as loud as they can.

So in your case you couldn't have done anything different or better. But I do believe there are some situations where we could better prepare our children, so they know what to do in a threatening situation. You're not stupid ((Fins)).

[Sannah]

First of all everyone that you are talking about are all children. No one should ever be in any of these situations but especially children. A child is not prepared to face such things.

These people are just making ill-informed comments. They don't have any info on what they are talking about.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you Fins, no wonder it makes your heart pound. Have you been able to discuss this in therapy?

[purple_fins]

THAT WAS SELF PRESERVATION!! Its part of human nature! Thank God for that! You are very brave. I cannot imagine being in such an experience... Each 1 of us facing danger - especially as a child - and encountering such violence goes into survival mode with the Fight/Flight/Freeze response. You innately/instinctivly went into Freeze mode = cooperating and considering the safety of younger family members also at gunpoint You at 8 were also versus an unstable person pointing a gun at children - if you had freaked him out in any way by running or fighting, the gun could have gone off... I am sorry that you are struggling with self-doubt & fear again now with these recent situations and memories Violence toward children in any way by family, friends, neighbours, strangers, peers etc is WRONG! You are very caring and brave to be able to do all that you did You are not alone...

Thank you notablackbarbie. The T. I see says I was brave too-- I'm trying to see it that way but it's difficult. You know, I've only ever heard-"flight or fight"... not "freeze" included. thanks for pointing that out-- I think it helps, including that makes me feel more normal. I think I'm getting stuck with guilt. was punished and accused of so much that I didn't do when I was little....
I feel guilty for everything that goes wrong....

thanks again I so appreciate your kindness.

fins

[purple_fins]

Thank you Lynn. Your kids are very lucky to have such a loving and caring mother. I bet they feel safe with you around-- that's something some of us never got to feel around our mothers. It must be so freeing for them-- to know their mother is there to lean on.

I'm so sorry you know what it's like to have to be in fear from a family member
I was assaulted by a brother in-law when I was 15-- I so understand that fear. I couldn't leave from him, as my dad had just dropped me off there to babysit and dad drove away and left me there-- alone -- without checking to see if my sister was there(she wasn't)

I don't know-- I struggle with the idea of -- "what could I have done better" in most of the traumatic situations I've been in. ...
feels like I'm reaching for a rope that's falling fast from the light to the darkness-- but I can't grasp it. I so don't wish to be considered "stupid".

thank you for your kind words.

fins

[lynn P.]

Thank you ((Fins)) for the kind words - I try my best to be a good mother. I realize not everyone is lucky to have a good support system. I honestly don't think you could have done anything different - in fact what you did was good - it was to save yourself, your niece/nephew. You could only do what your mind was capable of. Doubting yourself or thinking about 'what if's' can't change the past. I hope once you heal, you'll realize that you're a survivor...you're strong and give yourself credit.

[notablackbarbie]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

Thank you notablackbarbie. The T. I see says I was brave too-- I'm trying to see it that way but it's difficult. You know, I've only ever heard-"flight or fight"... not "freeze" included. thanks for pointing that out-- I think it helps, including that makes me feel more normal. I think I'm getting stuck with guilt. was punished and accused of so much that I didn't do when I was little....
I feel guilty for everything that goes wrong....

thanks again I so appreciate your kindness.

fins

Youre welcome. I learned the concept in a psych class in college & like keeping it close to consider more... TC

[purple_fins]

First of all everyone that you are talking about are all children. No one should ever be in any of these situations but especially children. A child is not prepared to face such things.

Yes Sannah, you are so right. (as usual) I have to remind myself that child's mind is VERY different from adult's mind.
Thank you.

These people are just making ill-informed comments. They don't have any info on what they are talking about.

You really think so? they're ill-informed? they just seemed so sure of things... ugh...
they were going on and on about how could anyone be so stupid to stay in the closet all day, like that girl did. and how anyone that dumb deserved to have ill done to them if they don't have the sense to make a situation better for themself. I can only imagine what they must be saying/thinking about Elizabeth Smart and what also they would think of me. It was upsetting to read their comments. Since Im very private and don't socialize-- I dont have much other exposure to see any different and worry they speak for the populace...... then I feel I want to isolate even more so.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you Fins, no wonder it makes your heart pound. Have you been able to discuss this in therapy?

Thank you I've talked a little about this particular event... not much though...... ugh.... I really don't like going "there"......
I've worked hard my whole life walking right on that edge and fear I'll fall off if I feel/think about that which I've hid in my "pocket", my "shoe", my "hood" and anywhere else I can find a hiding place for such upsets.

thanks for your kindness and support.

fins

[Yoda]

As an adult when I was held at gun point for three hours I did not fight. I did try to run but was drug back by him pulling my hair and he said if I tried to run again he would shoot me from behind so I didn't run again. I didn't fight because I thought it might upset him more and he would shoot me. After three hours when he said go I went as quickly as I could and hid under a neighbor's house for over an hour and I saw him driving up and down the road looking for me. I was an adult and didn't know what to do. How can anybody blame a child?

[purple_fins]

Yoda

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, my heart is with you.
You must have been so scared.
It's very upsetting to not know if one will live to see the next hour.

.... sheesh-- there goes the heart POUNDING again!

Thank you for your support and kindness.

fins

[Yoda]

Thank you, purple fins

Yes I was terrified. I tried to stay calm and think how could I get out alive so I could raise my child.

The sad part: the next day he was arrested and charged with assault with deadly weapon and he was only in jail for six hours until he was released because his brother was an attorney. So not right.

[Colours94]

thats selfpreservation...

and that doesnt sound like a very good chat if people would even consider blaming the victim... esp a child that young!

[lynn P.]

Fear can make people freeze. Those people who make those rude comments don't know what's it's like to fear for their lives, especially if they're a child. No one can judge unless they're been in their shoes. It so easy to sit in a cozy chair behind a computer screen and preach about James Bond courage.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

You really think so? they're ill-informed? they just seemed so sure of things... ugh...
they were going on and on about how could anyone be so stupid to stay in the closet all day, like that girl did. and how anyone that dumb deserved to have ill done to them if they don't have the sense to make a situation better for themself.

These people have no knowledge on how children respond to such terrible situations and they are making themselves experts. A child is supposed to have a responsible adult taking care of them with their best interests in mind. A raving lunatic gets a hold of a child - I can only imagine how terrified that child is. I really can't imagine a worse scenario for a child. How can a child think clearly in such a terrifying situation? Like you mentioned, children can't think clearly anyway, they haven't finished their brain development. These people are sitting in their safe, adult situation and taking that perspective when they are judging these children. Judging isn't right anyway, but if you are going to judge, I think that you need to take the perspective of the person that you are judging. Yes, these types drive me crazy!

Fin, I think that it would be helpful one day for you to work through this in therapy when you are ready. (And working through it in therapy entails reliving it in therapy so that you can release your feelings about it there in therapy). Definitely something to discuss with your therapist.

[ShoshannaD]

I am just learning about freeze myself... and how it just.... well... makes us freeze. I learned that from my abuser (dad) and even now, in a stressful moment, I just don't react, I shut down. I can't imagine anyone blaming an 11 year old for anything. Or anyone in such a stressful situation. How could anyone know unless they'd been YOU in YOUR moment with YOUR experiences? Grr... sometimes I hate people.