My mother drives me insane

I've come here to rant about my mother. I'm not looking for advice as there isn't any to be given. I've withdrawn from contact as much as I can, but it's not possible to break it off 100%. Not yet. In the meantime I just want to try to talk about how crazy-making she is, as I'm not sure anyone else can see it.

When I was a child, she was very dismissive of my feelings and told me not to have them. She has never, ever listens when I'm upset - she panics and talks over me. I can put my fingers in my ears, cry and beg her to listen, and she'll keep talking over me. She's terrified of what she might hear. When I started SI, she never asked me what was wrong. When I tried to SU, she told other people "we didn't even know she was unhappy" but she still didn't ask. Like I said, she's terrified of what she might hear. My T says it's a management technique that enables her to live in denial.

She turned a blind eye to CSA. She neglected me emotionally and also practically. That's straightforward enough. Other people can see, objectively, what the problems are if I tell them (I was left with headlice, I had a poor diet, etc). Whereas her behaviour in my adult life sounds fine in theory, so it feels crazy-making when I try to describe the ways in which she messes with my head. For example, when things get difficult she just pretends they never happened.

In January, she took me out for tea and cake to celebrate my birthday. I started a conversation about my childhood, she said some dismissive things and I ended up screaming her in a rage that was probably delayed by about 17 years. Then I said I was sorry for spoiling the outing. And she simply suggested we go out again to the same place, the week after. So we went out again. And she paid, again, and she said it was my birthday tea, again, as if the first outing never happened.

Another way in which she messes with my head, but which sounds fine if I try to describe it to anyone else, is to tell me she loves me. This is a problem because it's so random and meaningless. Example: when I was a teenager, she ignored me self-harming, but randomly announced she loved me, as if that covered the whole parenting thing. It's like getting a kitten, shoving it in a corner, not cuddling it, not feeding it properly, ignoring it, kicking it once in a while - then sometimes saying you love it, as if that makes up for everything else. Except I'm not a kitten.

She'll put her head on one side and say: "I do love you," in this voice that suggests she's so lovely and caring. It makes me want to scream: "No, you freaking don't," but she'd just pretend I never said it. Her tone of voice belongs to a relationship we don't have. She's got everyone else fooled, though. People think she's so nice. We have new neighbours, one of them works with my mum and he was all: "Oh, your mum's great, she's really lovely." No. She just has this way of speaking that makes her sound lovely, so she has everyone fooled. She's not lovely. She just pretends to be.

I last saw my dad in January. I stopped speaking to him soon after. My mum must realise. But she sends breezy emails about their movements. She sends me postcards from both of them as if nothing is wrong. I know I sound insane: I'm complaining because my mum says she loves me and sends me postcards. But picture that kitten again. Imagine it's grown up into a sad, messed-up cat and you send it a postcard once in a while. Doesn't help, does it? When I told her I was in therapy, she said: "Oh, good," and started giving me money towards it. She posts envelopes of cash through my door with little notes saying "With love from mum," and I always want to scream and rip them up, as she seems to think it actually means something. Love is a doing word. You can't just say it and assume that's all you have to do.

I do see why my mother is the way she is. My grandmother is a bona fide narcissist. My mum was 17 when she met my dad, so she never learned to think for herself. Last time she came to my house, she asked permission to hang up her coat. I said she was being ridiculous. She said, well, your grandmother shouts at me for putting it in the wrong place. She's in her 60s, for crying out loud, and she's still enmeshed or insecurely attached or whatever you want to call it. The problem I'm having is that, when people think of abuse, they think of name-calling and an absence of love. I feel like I'm going crazy because I'm sure my mum has abused and neglected me but ultimately I'm complaining about the fact that she says she loves me and gives me money.

The worst thing is I really want to talk to her about the stuff that happened because I'm sick of keeping someone else's silence. But she won't hear it, I know she won't, and if I get her to come into therapy with me she'll probably just lie and twist everything and make me sound like a fantasist, she'll claim I had a lovely childhood and I'm just making up lies. She managed to convince everyone else of that, after all. And if my therapist points out that I quite blatantly have attachment disturbances and PTSD, she'll cry and make it about her, like she always does, and say he's getting at her. And then she'll pretend it never happened.

I could just stop talking to her as well, but that means I'm letting her carry on living in her happy bubble of denial while I suffer. How is that fair? I don't want to shatter her. I just want her to actually see me, and she's never going to, is she? Why did I have to get born into this load of utter absolute garbage when other people get decent families? I think I just want someone to tell me I'm not crazy, that they can see why this would bother me.

Hi tinyrabbit, just my two cents worth, love you, no matter what, you are worthwhile. Easier said than done, I know, and lots of work. Take baby steps here, and you may see how good it can make you feel. You can write them letters, poems, etc and then give or not give to your family, whatever works for you. I wish you the best as you try to figure out a happier way to live with all this!!!!

Oh, yeah. Yeah!

And I can totally see how this undermines things throughout your life. Unfinished business. Unaddressable. Maddening.

Thank you. Honestly, I just need to know I'm not the mad one, that I'm not just seeing problems that don't exist.

Seriously, what is wrong with your mother? It's like she's living in a dream world? She's very heavy into denial. If she took sides with you against your dad, her whole world would come crashing down. My father was kind of in the same predicament. He was going to support my mother regardless. He like asked me, "Are you gonna take care of me if I get sick? She will. So shut up." He told me "they always knew" I would do this or that. Whatever.

Anyway, I don't mean to be taking your mother's side. I'm just saying, they had a habit of seeing things they decided on. She may never see things your way. But bringing her to therapy might give you an insight into how she sees things? When my t asked my mother, "hasn't hankster been a good daughter to you?" and my mother sat there like Jabba the Hutt and repeated, "daw-terr??" like it was a word she'd never heard before, everything suddenly became clear. My t didn't hear what I did, but it was enough for me.

Yep. That is pretty much it, and the sad thing is it's pretty much stopped her from living properly. It's like you say: she has decided what she wants to see, she's decided how the world is, and that's it. If only she'd realised, got divorced and got some therapy. The therapy would be essential as otherwise she'd just marry another abuser. She absolutely adores my husband, who is kind, sweet and gentle as a lamb, and I'm pretty sure that, deep down, she is envious. Because I'm not married to a monster.

It helps to hear people say stuff like: what is wrong with her. As I do feel a little bit like I'm making problems that aren't there (except that's probably not my voice). I'm sorry you had that experience in therapy, as it sounds enlightening but upsetting. The thing is, I really don't need insight into my mother. I know exactly what's going on with her and how she sees things, and I'm sick of giving it credence. I want her to see my side and she never ever will. Even if she did, she'd just edit it out again.

Thanks, I totally needed my experience with her in therapy, so it was fine. She's been keeping secrets from me all my life. Life changing secrets. I can't believe how dumb and complacent I've been. Ts have been trying to get me to see how angry I am, but I think they skipped how she terrified me first, like pre-verbally. I keep talking in t about how she would kill me if she knew what I've been up to - eating healthy, getting sleep and exercise and being happy, cleaning my house. She would just kill me. And make fun of me.

Wow. That sounds exactly like my mom. Every time my mom speaks to me, I sincerely want to punch her in the face and I'm really not a violent person. She's an obnoxious narcissist and so many people fall for her lies. Sometimes I do because she manages to say the meanest things to me in the sweetest voice. The other day, she was laughing saying that I'm an irresponsible sloppy mess. I wouldn't have even noticed it if someone outside of the family didn't see through it and stood up for me. I wonder how much she degrades me and I just accept it and internalize it.

She covers up for all of the abuse with money. She pays for everything and I can't figure out if she loves me or what her motive is for paying for me. I figure she feels like money is love. I do know that there is no amount if money in the world that can buy my love or make up for the childhood she stole from me. Just because I was always fed and clothed that doesn't mean I wasn't neglected

I think our mom's are cut from the same cloth.

It's terrible how she treated you, and that she denies it all now. My mom denies everything too. It's like what she's doing now (your mom and my mom in a way) are both a denial and like an attempt to buy you off. It's like, if she says and does this stuff now that's acting like a genuine, caring mother... that somehow that makes it ok that she wasn't when you were younger and needed it a lot more.

I relate completely. My mom is very supportive in non-intimate ways: we meet and have dinner, we go on outings, she sometimes helps me out of a financial pinch. I feel so ungrateful for being angry at her. But the one time I tried to broach the abuse, she said she did the best she could and she didn't think I'd been that affected by it since I seemed okay now. She got very chilly with me for a few weeks, and then--just like with you--it was as if the conversation never happened. I guess it's the closest I'll ever get to an acknowledgement or apology.

My T, I think, would like me to confront her and try to deepen our relationship. I don't think he quite grasps how deeply she denies things in her life, or how profoundly she can cut people out of her life if they force her to break that denial. I figure a superficial relationship is better than none, but a part of me is always seething with rage about this. I just want to scream, "Admit it! Admit that you did not protect me! Take some responsibility for it!" But I don't think she can.

And for those who would say, forgive her, meet her on her terms, find something you can love about her: I have tried. She rejects my advances. She doesn't want me to like her or love her for the reasons I do. I have told her I appreciate her. She just doesn't want to hear it. She thinks I'm laughing at her. Which is just so weird and insulting, I don't know what to do with it. Plus she's lied to me so many times, it really is a case of Charlie Brown and Lucy holding the football.

TR-
I see it. My mother denies everything. Which infuriates me. I recently asked her "WHy she refused to stop what was going on when I was a child"....Just a dumb stare response....I know there are many psych dxs which could be given to her...she will never go. She even told me it was my fault for being raped! I asked for it! So I tell her great detail how it happened & what the guy did. She is old and I cannot believe she ever had sex...but I guess she did.

I know I will never get the answers i want or even I can see your point if view Kirby. It is sad as I am an only child.

I like writing a letter of "restorative justice." Restorative justice says...this is what you did, this is how it made me feel. A way of taking your power back (that was stolen as a child). The letter is for YOU....she can't interrupt, etc. and you can get to say what you need to. Rarely will an abuser admit to what they did. They are narcissstic and not capable of feeling anyone else's feelings.

What do you know about her childhood....she probably was abused and repeated that cycle (of course that doesn't absolve her), but may explain her behavior.

I'm sorry so many people can relate. You haven't. Attachment is a biological process. You can't opt out of it just like that, even if you want to. Also, f**k forgiveness. I say try to disentangle from the toxics as best you can and look after yourself.

I'm so sorry your mother has been so cruddy and that you didn't have the childhood you should have had. You have basically described my parents with your post, except my mum doesn't exactly say mean things. She just is mean. It's so hard to explain.

Yep, that's always been the way. It makes me want to scream.

Yeah. This. I'm sorry she didn't protect you, I'm sorry she was so invalidating. You're not ungrateful!

I am so, so sorry that she said something so awful to you. She was wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Oh, I get her behaviour, totally. I completely understand why she is the way she is. I just wish SHE could see it!

I feel the exact same towards my mom. I just wish that she could SEE that she has NOT been the loving supportive mom that she likes to think she is.

Like... I know she had a rough childhood. A lot rougher than mine. I feel bad for that as she deserved to be cared about too.

But I still don't feel like I have any reason or obligation to forgive her. To me, forgiveness requires remorse. Remorese requires acknowledgement. My mom has neither acknowledged things, nor shown any remorse on MY behalf. (She feels bad I think that she still doesn't have a warm loving family like she wants... but she does not feel like I was ever mistreated in any way, and does not feel bad about her role in my life)

I can so relate to what you are going through. They twist things...exaggerate...lie...it as if you feel where is the truth that this person is mean and abusive and controlling...you're sure not alone