[RubyRae]

I don't mean to hurt or offend anyone here,I am just genuinely curious about this...

Everyone knows that experiencing abuse in childhood leaves lasting effects even in adulthood.From my own experiences I can say that's 100% true,the abuse I endured shaped who I am today,shaped how and what I believe about myself and the world.And I know that it's up to me to work on helping myself,I can go to therapy and seek guidance but ultimately it's up to me whether I put in the hard work it takes in order to overcome my past,which I have been doing for quite a few years and I'm sure it will be neverending,I will continually be growing and changing.The fact that it takes so much time and effort to undo all the damage by the hands of other people seems so unfair,but I know that's what I have to do in order to live a decent life.

I know not everyone feels or believes the way I do about this.Some people,my brother for example,uses our childhood as an excuse for the way his life is now.He doesn't put in the time and effort it takes to help himself.He says things like he can't help it,he's messed up from childhood when he does things.If he goes to jail,according to him it's not because he committed a crime,it's because he's "messed up" from childhood.He's an alcoholic with liver damage and instead of trying to help himself he blames it on childhood,saying he started drinking at age 12.

Everything he says or does is blamed on our childhood and I don't see him ever improving,ever trying or ever getting anywhere with that mindset.And it's like he's permanently stuck in self pity over the things we experienced,always throwing it out there to everyone and anyone he's around,almost like he just wants pity from others.

That's what I don't understand,why some people forever hold onto what happened in childhood,blame their present life on the past,use it to justify and excuse their situations, behavior and circumstances instead of trying to help themselves or make any changes.Is it that they're not ready to?They simply don't want to?They don't know how to?Or do they gain something,whether consciously or subconsciously,by holding onto the past so tightly?

I know for myself,I held onto it so tightly for so long,until the pain of staying the same was worse than doing something about it.And I will admit that there were times I enjoyed wallowing in self pity,I'm not exactly sure why,but I did.

Anyway,what are your thoughts on this?Why do some choose to work on their issues and improve theirself while others choose to stay stuck?I say "choose" because I personally believe it's a choice.

[pachyderm]

With my childhood, at least, I learned that I was the one who was bad, the one to blame. As an adult, some people have told me the same thing -- even one psychiatrist did so. So to find out that not all people condemn me for failing to cope, that something else contributed to my condition, that some self-compassion is right -- well, that helps. That some people might be on my side, that I may not have to heal wholly by myself -- that might help too.

It sounds like you're critical and judgmental towards your brother who endured childhood abuse, because he isn't proactive with his healing in the same way that you are. I have three siblings. We were all emotionally and verbally abused. And, because we are different people, we each handle the effects of the abuse differently. Who are you, or who am I, to judge the way that your brother and my two siblings' make their life choices when it comes to the path they've chosen for themselves, and how they choose to heal from their abuse. Your post is very condescending and rude about your brother. I'm angry that you view him that way. How dare you. You have no idea what he's probably going through. Leave him alone.

Asking a question like the one you ask is futile. No one but the abused person knows why. Only your brother knows the answer to that question. Only my two siblings know the answer to that question. It is not your job nor my job, to answer that question for them, or interfere in their life and their healing process. At least for me, I am focused on myself and my own healing. My siblings are in their 40s, so they are old enough to make their own life choices. We don't interfere in each other's lives and I'm estranged from one of my siblings due to being physically abused by that person.

I understand that you want your brother to make different choices because you obviously disapprove of the ones he's made. But that's not your call. You don't get to tell your brother what to do. If you do that, you will lose his respect and his love. Leave him alone. Let him make his own life choices regardless of what you think. it's none of your business. Period.

[Amyjay]

I think if people knew how to do it differently or better, they would.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

With my childhood, at least, I learned that I was the one who was bad, the one to blame. As an adult, some people have told me the same thing -- even one psychiatrist did so. So to find out that not all people condemn me for failing to cope, that something else contributed to my condition, that some self-compassion is right -- well, that helps. That some people might be on my side, that I may not have to heal wholly by myself -- that might help too.

I also learned as a child that I was the one that was bad,the one to blame for all the SA I went through.And as an adult I too had some people tell me the same thing.

Finding out not all people condemn me has made a huge difference,also that people are on my side.

I know that my childhood made me who I am today and it's the reason I have/do struggle.But knowing I am no longer that child has been empowering.

I'm sorry your childhood was rough too.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by cielpur

It sounds like you're critical and judgmental towards your brother who endured childhood abuse, because he isn't proactive with his healing in the same way that you are. I have three siblings. We were all emotionally and verbally abused. And, because we are different people, we each handle the effects of the abuse differently. Who are you, or who am I, to judge the way that your brother and my two siblings' make their life choices when it comes to the path they've chosen for themselves, and how they choose to heal from their abuse. Your post is very condescending and rude about your brother. I'm angry that you view him that way. How dare you. You have no idea what he's probably going through. Leave him alone.

Asking a question like the one you ask is futile. No one but the abused person knows why. Only your brother knows the answer to that question. Only my two siblings know the answer to that question. It is not your job nor my job, to answer that question for them, or interfere in their life and their healing process. At least for me, I am focused on myself and my own healing. My siblings are in their 40s, so they are old enough to make their own life choices. We don't interfere in each other's lives and I'm estranged from one of my siblings due to being physically abused by that person.

I understand that you want your brother to make different choices because you obviously disapprove of the ones he's made. But that's not your call. You don't get to tell your brother what to do. If you do that, you will lose his respect and his love. Leave him alone. Let him make his own life choices regardless of what you think. it's none of your business. Period.

It seems my post may have been triggering for you,maybe I should have added a trigger warning,sorry that I didn't.

It's ok if you think I am being critical and judgmental,I can't convince you differently.As I said in the first sentence of my post,I am just curious.

I am curious what makes the difference,what pushes some people to work so hard at changihg things when others don't seem to.

You are reading way more into my post than what was intended.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

I think if people knew how to do it differently or better, they would.

That's part of my curiosity,wondering why some don't try to find ways/figure out how to do it differently or better.

I am in no way saying I have done it 'better' than anyone else.The pain I was going through was what pushed me to seek help.

[Shazerac]

Double post

[Shazerac]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

That's part of my curiosity,wondering why some don't try to find ways/figure out how to do it differently or better.

I am in no way saying I have done it 'better' than anyone else.The pain I was going through was what pushed me to seek help.

I hear you Ruby. I too wonder why some people recover and others wallow in misery for the rest of their life. It makes me sad to see people suffer, but it's also frustrating.

Personally I've have never seen good that came from spending one's life blaming the parents. I also believe there is some level choice involved. Sure it not easy and it can almost rip your guts out.

I believe ALL human adults have free will, including the mentally ill. We can chose to seek help or refuse to seek help. It's still a choice.

[Shazerac]

Originally Posted by cielpur

It sounds like you're critical and judgmental towards your brother who endured childhood abuse, because he isn't proactive with his healing in the same way that you are. I have three siblings. We were all emotionally and verbally abused. And, because we are different people, we each handle the effects of the abuse differently. Who are you, or who am I, to judge the way that your brother and my two siblings' make their life choices when it comes to the path they've chosen for themselves, and how they choose to heal from their abuse. Your post is very condescending and rude about your brother. I'm angry that you view him that way. How dare you. You have no idea what he's probably going through. Leave him alone.

Asking a question like the one you ask is futile. No one but the abused person knows why. Only your brother knows the answer to that question. Only my two siblings know the answer to that question. It is not your job nor my job, to answer that question for them, or interfere in their life and their healing process. At least for me, I am focused on myself and my own healing. My siblings are in their 40s, so they are old enough to make their own life choices. We don't interfere in each other's lives and I'm estranged from one of my siblings due to being physically abused by that person.

I understand that you want your brother to make different choices because you obviously disapprove of the ones he's made. But that's not your call. You don't get to tell your brother what to do. If you do that, you will lose his respect and his love. Leave him alone. Let him make his own life choices regardless of what you think. it's none of your business. Period.

I didn't get that she was telling her brother what to do. What I heard was her wondering why some people get help and recover, while others remain impaired and suffer.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by Shazerac

I hear you Ruby. I too wonder why some people recover and others wallow in misery for the rest of their life. It makes me sad to see people suffer, but it's also frustrating.

Personally I've have never seen good that came from spending one's life blaming the parents. I also believe there is some level choice involved. Sure it not easy and it can almost rip your guts out.

I believe ALL human adults have free will, including the mentally ill. We can chose to seek help or refuse to seek help. It's still a choice.

I agree about blaming parents.I think there's a big difference in 'placing' blame where it belongs and continually blaming.I know my parents are to blame for my PTSD,it took alot of therapy to remove the blame from myself(that I deserved it,I was a bad kid,etc) to placing it where it belongs,on them.But,I'm an adult,and I can't just keep blaming them for everything and do nothing to help myself.If I don't seek out the help that's available and put my all into healing,that's not their fault,it's my own.If I did continue blaming them,to me that's just making excuses.

I'm glad you agree that it's a choice whether to seek help or not.That's what I don't understand,why some choose not to and would rather spend the rest of their life blaming their problems on their childhood and making excuses rather than taking responsibility for themselves and seeking help.And complaining that nothing will ever help,nothing will ever change,they will never get better,without actually putting in any time or effort at trying.

[RubyRae]

My brother likes to complain about how horrible his life is yet if anyone asks if he's tried therapy,tried reading certain books,medication,whatever,he has excuses such as "I'm messed up".

Maybe deep down he wants to change things but how's it going to happen if he doesn't even try?Nobody can change things for him,he has to do that himself.It's frustrating listening to someone complain all the time yet give nothing but excuses.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

...what I don't understand,why some choose not to and would rather spend the rest of their life blaming their problems on their childhood and making excuses rather than taking responsibility for themselves and seeking help.

My experience has been that help is not so simply available, or affordable for everyone. Lots promise help; fewer provide genuine help -- that is my feeling. You are always told to get a good therapist -- that implies that not all therapy is "good". I find that the quality of therapy cannot be guaranteed just by it being "therapy". Seems to me we are not in the era where we can rely on even trained therapists just by the fact that they have been "trained". And telling people who have little self-confidence to themselves be the arbiter of what is good is problematic.

It is not simple.

[RubyRae]

I agree that it's not simple pachyderm.

It's hard to find the right kind of help,or even good help and sometimes those that are supposed to help make things worse instead of better.I've been through my fair share of therapists through the years, I have wasted much time and money on 'treatments' until I finally found one that was worthwhile and helpful.

I do realize not everyone can afford therapy or even medication,but there's other ways for people to seek ways to help themselves.Sometimes simple things help(some), like self help books,meditation,etc.Even joining sites like this can be helpful.

I'm not really talking about those who completely heal vs those that don't,I'm talking about those that try vs those that don't,I'm talking about the ones that won't even try the simplest of things,like my brother,there's really no excuse for that.

[RubyRae]

I worry my posts here are being misinterpreted as meaning one way of doing things is better than another when in actuality I am just trying to understand what makes the difference in how people handle/deal with a bad childhood.

Like,are some just naturally more resilient?

[stopchewinggum]

I will simply say this. No CHILD know how to properly cope with abuse, and it shouldn't be expected. In the case of severe it simply isn't as easy as picking oneself up by their bootstraps. Then again, your talking about some who developed full on alcoholism by age 12. This means A) his brain development was changed. B) he developed alcoholism at young age. Does this me he shouldn't be proactive and get some help? No, but the alcoholism throws an extra layer. While many people argue that addiction isn't a disease. All of the research show that alcoholism is genetic, rather highly genetic actually. He may have started drinking to cope, but this isn't going to stop on it's own, at this point. If anything by now, he should be in a residential dual diagnosis program. It may sound like an excuse to you, but perhaps he just very aware of why he started drinking in the first place.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by stopchewinggum

I will simply say this. No CHILD know how to properly cope with abuse, and it shouldn't be expected. In the case of severe it simply isn't as easy as picking oneself up by their bootstraps. Then again, your talking about some who developed full on alcoholism by age 12. This means A) his brain development was changed. B) he developed alcoholism at young age. Does this me he shouldn't be proactive and get some help? No, but the alcoholism throws an extra layer. While many people argue that addiction isn't a disease. All of the research show that alcoholism is genetic, rather highly genetic actually. He may have started drinking to cope, but this isn't going to stop on it's own, at this point. If anything by now, he should be in a residential dual diagnosis program. It may sound like an excuse to you, but perhaps he just very aware of why he started drinking in the first place.

Of course no child knows how to properly cope with abuse,no where in this entire thread have I said otherwise.And who is saying it's easy or simple or one just needs to pick theirsekf up by the bootstraps.

I started drinking at age 6, but that's beside the point,as is my brother.I was just using him as an example yet it seems to be the focus of this thread and now I wish I hadn't done that.It could be any average Joe I'm referring to in this thread,not specifically my brother.

This thread isn't supposed to be about drinking or about my brother,I asked specific questions but obviously I have not properly explained myself or people are just picking out bits and pieces to focus on,I feel I am really being misunderstood here.

Therefore,I give up on this thread and will move on.Thanks for everyones replies here.

[stopchewinggum]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

Of course no child knows how to properly cope with abuse,no where in this entire thread have I said otherwise.And who is saying it's easy or simple or one just needs to pick theirsekf up by the bootstraps.

I also didn't say that you did. That's not where I was going with that.

I started drinking at age 6, but that's beside the point,as is my brother.I was just using him as an example yet it seems to be the focus of this thread and now I wish I hadn't done that.It could be any average Joe I'm referring to in this thread,not specifically my brother.

Okay, so let be clear. The average Joe on the street who blames their parents b/c they wouldn't let them play sports whatever is an idiot. The average Joe on the street also hasn't experienced intense child abuse. This why your posts can be confusing. I, also, think for many of us who have experienced actual child abuse, and not just parents who were hard to live with, can sometimes forget just hard our lives have been. Yes, some people are more resilient than others. There are many factors that contribute to this. Some of these are things like personality and IQ or whether or not a mental illness is present. Also, everyone has their own path to recovery. At the end of the day, you cannot help someone who isn't ready or doesn't want, for whatever reason, to put in the work themselves. Have a nice day.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by stopchewinggum

I also didn't say that you did. That's not where I was going with that.


Okay, so let be clear. The average Joe on the street who blames their parents b/c they wouldn't let them play sports whatever is an idiot. The average Joe on the street also hasn't experienced intense child abuse. This why your posts can be confusing. I, also, think for many of us who have experienced actual child abuse, and not just parents who were hard to live with, can sometimes forget just hard our lives have been. Yes, some people are more resilient than others. There are many factors that contribute to this. Some of these are things like personality and IQ or whether or not a mental illness is present. Also, everyone has their own path to recovery. At the end of the day, you cannot help someone who isn't ready or doesn't want, for whatever reason, to put in the work themselves. Have a nice day.

Ok,fair enough,I should have said 'any random joe' rather than 'average joe', my mistake on that one.I'm not talking about blaming parents for trivial things.I experienced extreme abuse,both physical and sexual throughout my entire childhood.My brother was mostly a witness to all of the abuse.There was a huge difference in what we experienced and there's also a huge difference in how we deal with it now as adults.My interest was in what causes those differences in not just myself and my brother but also with anyone that has experienced abuse.

I do agree that someone cannot be helped if they're not ready or not willing to put in the work.

I guess it's as simple as that.

[mimsies]

I am actually right there with you.

There is a huge difference between blaming one's parents for the ways in which they harmed them and made them struggle to find a happy path in life, and blaming parents for the choices one makes as an adult.

IN the end people are and have to be responsible for their own choices. Alcoholism is a disease, yes. Probably your brother can't overcome it by himself. That is absolutely true. But her does have a choice to try to get help.

Anyone who can sit there and say "I can't help it, my childhood messed me up" no longer has an excuse. They are doing what they want because they want, and they know what they are doing. If someone who was abused as a child then goes on to abuse their own or other people's children, it is because they choose to. If they become serial killers, it is because they choose to. If they go around cussing out store clerks because the store was out of something they wanted... it is because they choose to. If they cheat on their partner, it is because they choose to. If they spend all day playing video games or on a chat site instead of doing their work... yup, it is because they choose to.

There are an abundance of free support groups in real life and online, websites dedicated to supporting people, endless resources available to start to try working on things. Whether most people choose to try them, is entirely a matter of choice. There are some uncommon exceptions, of course.

And it is something we see a lot. Regardless of WHAT the circumstances, people make choices, that can be ONLY their choices- whether to turn in a lost wallet without removing the cash, whether to throw a napkin on the ground or in the waste bin 5 feet away, whether to let a person go in front while waiting for a light, whether to smile and thank another person... it is all a choice.

I want to be clear. I am applying this to adults, not children. Sure children make choices too, but all in all they are just trying to survive, and adopt what seems to them the best way to make it into adulthood. At some point though, nearly EVERYONE makes a decision about who they are going to be and how they are going to behave. I leave exceptions for some people who are held in slavery or in other beyond extreme circumstances that do not allow them to develop into adults with free will.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by mimsies

I am actually right there with you.

There is a huge difference between blaming one's parents for the ways in which they harmed them and made them struggle to find a happy path in life, and blaming parents for the choices one makes as an adult.

IN the end people are and have to be responsible for their own choices. Alcoholism is a disease, yes. Probably your brother can't overcome it by himself. That is absolutely true. But her does have a choice to try to get help.

Anyone who can sit there and say "I can't help it, my childhood messed me up" no longer has an excuse. They are doing what they want because they want, and they know what they are doing. If someone who was abused as a child then goes on to abuse their own or other people's children, it is because they choose to. If they become serial killers, it is because they choose to. If they go around cussing out store clerks because the store was out of something they wanted... it is because they choose to. If they cheat on their partner, it is because they choose to. If they spend all day playing video games or on a chat site instead of doing their work... yup, it is because they choose to.

There are an abundance of free support groups in real life and online, websites dedicated to supporting people, endless resources available to start to try working on things. Whether most people choose to try them, is entirely a matter of choice. There are some uncommon exceptions, of course.

And it is something we see a lot. Regardless of WHAT the circumstances, people make choices, that can be ONLY their choices- whether to turn in a lost wallet without removing the cash, whether to throw a napkin on the ground or in the waste bin 5 feet away, whether to let a person go in front while waiting for a light, whether to smile and thank another person... it is all a choice.

I want to be clear. I am applying this to adults, not children. Sure children make choices too, but all in all they are just trying to survive, and adopt what seems to them the best way to make it into adulthood. At some point though, nearly EVERYONE makes a decision about who they are going to be and how they are going to behave. I leave exceptions for some people who are held in slavery or in other beyond extreme circumstances that do not allow them to develop into adults with free will.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

Like,are some just naturally more resilient?

Probably yes. Variability is one characteristic of all life.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by mimsies

I leave exceptions for some people who are held in slavery or in other beyond extreme circumstances that do not allow them to develop into adults with free will.

I don't feel as though I really have "free will" -- it is too controlled by fear, which I have been unable to conquer even though I am an adult.

[sonicboof]

All I'd say is we are all different and you are "choosing" to judge. Don't judge.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I don't feel as though I really have "free will" -- it is too controlled by fear, which I have been unable to conquer even though I am an adult.

I can really relate to that,it's one of the main issues I worked on in therapy.That fear still controls me at times,no matter how much I fight it,no matter how much I have worked on changing it,it still rules and runs my life when I've been triggered by something,and probably always will.But it is way better than it used to be.