Feel Trapped Into Accepting Job

Thanks! I hope so too (re: it coming through quickly). I could have sworn this woman was going to start maternity leave in March, which means something needs to happen soon. I don't think I can survive another year in my team (i.e. waiting for her to get back).

And, wow! Someone tried communicating with you by leaving signs in your work area? That sounds so immature and like they've got their own nutty issues! Don't you just wish you could send out a mass email saying something like, "Thankfully the webcams were up and running, as soon as I finish reviewing the footage, I'll know who to thank for the signs. I will talk to you soon <evil laugh>" People are so goofy. Was what they needed to tell you so awful that they couldn't even bear to send an email?!

Bummer about your boss... does it seem to be becoming a pattern, or more of a one-off thing? I assume if he *actually* had the experience to know what the problem was, he wouldn't need to bring you on (!) so it seems odd that he suddenly wants to be the "expert" here!

And, I don't think you're the problem. Sure, some people can just let this stuff roll off their back... but that doesn't mean everyone should. That stuff sounds super irritating, even if you consciously decide to not let it get to you, it's still honestly classified as irritating (and stupid) stuff people do in the workplace!

I *have* to be the problem, because I run into the same situations wherever I go. I think I come across in a way that I don't understand or intend. Like I either sound too abrupt or I try to be diplomatic and sound too uncertain? I am not sure.

I also stay upset about this kind of thing for way longer than I should. My day at work yesterday sort of ruined my whole evening.

The signs had to do with cardboard recycling. I had been placing boxes in piles next to the full cardboard recycling containers. An outside vendor was supposed to take care of it, but they were a week late with their pick up.

I noticed a few days after my biggest pile had been cleared that the containers themselves had been relabeled with big signs about putting cardboard boxes in the containers (which I couldn't do when they were full). A few hours later, those signs were gone.

Monday there was a new sign. ALL of the 50-60 gallon containers are now paper only (instead of one paper, two cardboard) and a small plastic tote (10 gallon?) was put out for cardboard recycling, with a sign that said that cardboard needed to be taken to the dumpster if the tote was full. The tote was overflowing and I had two large boxes.

The dumpster was across the parking lot in the middle of an unshoveled, unplowed area, surrounded by snow berms. I spent 20 minutes looking for someone who had a key to the dumpster and then carrying my boxes out there, one by one. I left the full plastic tote.

I wasn't really that happy about doing janitorial service and I was extremely annoyed that it was communicated to me via sign. Everyone in the office knew who was stacking up those boxes! I was not arbitrarily placing cardboard in this area - I was TOLD to. I had commented on the fact that the pile was substantial and had asked an admin to contact the service to schedule a pick up. If someone else was breaking down the boxes when they felt like it wasn't their job, they could have said something to me or to my boss.

Is there another way to look at this? To me, it just seems so passive aggressive and obnoxious. The signs involved clip art, were printed in color, all caps, and had typos.

It's too soon for me to tell whether this will be a pattern with my boss, but I would not be surprised if it turned out to be the case. *This* reminds me of how he interfered in the first project I did, arbitrarily changing my equipment list. On three separate occasions yesterday he interfered with extremely minor matters and had me redo work I had already done for no sensible reason at all.

This sort of reinforces my fears that I would be a monkey required to obey the instructions of a non-professional. He sometimes talks down his IT skills and sometimes talks them up. I still have not really figured out what the psychological deal is with him. He complains about having to deal with this stuff, but at the same time will not let me handle it.

My friend, my boss, and the owner were all meeting today to discuss the next steps for me, so I suppose I will hear more about that tomorrow. I half wonder if they will decide they don't want me there after all, now that the big work push is over. I may have hormonal sensitivities at the moment.

Why are companies so ineffective? How do they stay in business? I look at what your company is doing - giving you nothing to do and letting your boss talk about synergies and mismanage a team; not hiring replacement staff when multiple people are going on leave for a year. Why? Why not be efficient about these things?

Oh wow. That sounds kind of awful - I'm sorry!

First, it seems weird to me that they expect you to take the boxes out to the dumpster, especially - as you mentioned - given it's such a trek, in crappy conditions, AND requires a special key. What the heck?

I can almost understand how, in a small company, they might need people to pitch in with taking out the trash, but this sounds kind of crazy. (And ironic, the point of leaving the boxes, I assume, was so the recycling company would pick them up! If you're tossing them in the dumpster, they're not getting recycled?)

And, I 100% agree with you that it's obnoxious to communicate by leaving notes by the recycling bin that are targeted at you. Frankly, I'd be tempted to just ignore the notes and assume that, given the colorful and misspelled words, they were not posted by anyone with any authority. I'd want to take a stance of, "until my manager tells me to do it this way, I'm going to continue leaving the boxes by the recycling." Heck, I might even be tempted to ask if the company really thinks it's a good use of your time (and their money) to be getting dressed back up for the outside weather (I'm assuming you need to suit up for the cold!), trekking through the parking lot, risking injury out in the snow banks and ice, to dump boxes that are *supposed* to be picked up by the recycling company!

Argh. I'm upset for you! What makes it worse, to me, is that some of this stuff doesn't *need* to be an issue if people would learn to communicate in a somewhat normal fashion. Instead of leaving notes, if someone had simply approached you and nicely said, "oh, we can't get the recycling folks out here any more frequently, and the boxes are creating a bit of a hazard for us. I know it's a bit weird, but would you mind taking the extra boxes that you've got and bringing them out to the dumpster?" - you probably would react differently. (It's still a sucky thing to have to do! But it's a bit more respectful of a way to approach it!)

Sigh, I'm so sorry Hvert!

Your boss sounds kind of nuts. I don't know how to deal with people like that either. It always strikes me as crazy when a company hires someone who is good at what they do, but then won't let them do it! You could be so GREAT for this guy - take all this IT stuff off his plate so he can deal with whatever his expertise is in, reduce his stress and worry, free up his time, make sure he's getting good IT solutions... that, I would think, would make his life so much easier... if he'd get out of the way.

*ugh people!!!*

And, I have no clue why companies are so ineffective. I think it's not the company, it's certain *people* within the company that do a bad job, but maybe have other redeeming factors (or friends in high places) that allow them to stay in jobs for too long, without realizing the consequences.

For example, with my boss... it IS crazy that there are people like me on the team who are not only bored, but also not engaged and having their skills just wither away. And nobody above him manages to see it... the reality is, he's good at some of the things he does, he is just a *TERRIBLE* manager. He doesn't like details. He doesn't like administrative stuff. He doesn't read emails that are longer than 3 sentences!!! He should NOT be managing a team - he's great working with clients, selling ideas, brainstorming, and even strategizing. He's just not good at actually managing multiple work streams, or god forbid, developing people under him (I could laugh at this, if it didn't make me cry).

But, he does what his boss wants, and his boss doesn't ask/care about how my boss' direct reports are feeling... that's not part of how he gets reviewed.

I really wish more companies would review managers by talking to their direct reports.

Anyway, sorry for all the ranting. It's just crazy to me too, and frustrating, and I have a sense that it's not really better anywhere else. Or that, more accurately, it's not company-dependent, it's manager-dependent, so you really need to find a good manager to work for, and stick with them!

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is sort of wt* with the dumpster thing. You are absolutely right that if someone had directly told me that I should be taking the boxes to the dumpster vs. leaving them in the hall, I would have had a completely different reaction. I would have taken care of the 30 boxes I had left there before if someone had asked me to! Anonymous signs are just mean.

I am starting to have a bad feeling about my friend's position with regard to her subordinates. Apparently her entire department turned over within the past 8 months. My friend has been there a year. When I asked why, the staff wouldn't say much more than 'it was a sticky situation.' I have also heard some passing references towards her that do not sound positive, stuff like employees rolling their eyes in her direction.

I hope this micromanaging is just temporary, that once he gets to know me, once I have systems in place, he'll leave me alone. I see so much evidence of neglect that it's really frustrating to deal with someone who doesn't want to be hassled but who also won't give me enough info/empowerment to eliminate the hassle.

It's true that a good boss makes all the difference... and, boy, the power of hindsight! I had two wonderful bosses when I was just getting started out in my career, and I really did not appreciate it as much as I should have.

Does your boss recognize his weaknesses in managing people? I always kind of wonder why people who so obviously do not enjoy managing others stick with those roles. Companies promote technical experts to supervisory positions and it's just the worst thing they could do. They lose the benefit of the technical expertise, stress out a high performer, and kill morale for the poor people suffering under that person's 'leadership.'

Any word on your potential transfer?

Oh wow (re: your friend's department completely turning off). That's really hard. Didn't you say that you had worked for her at another job? Or did you not report to her directly? I wonder how much of that might have been set in motion before she got the job? That does sound really crazy, and frightening!

I hope the micromanaging is temporary too! I thought he was too busy to micromanage!? Hopefully you're still working on getting the word out about your business, so you can be ready to jump ship when your contract's up!

I don't think my boss has a clue, honestly. I know that he's aware that he's not great with "administrative" stuff - he barely reads emails (I don't think he reads anything longer than 3 sentences), and anything that's due for corporate, he generally doesn't pass on to us until the last possible moment. We just had an emergency meeting on Friday because our annual goals were due, that day (first we were hearing about it!) - and he was supposed to pass down his boss' goals to us, so we could incorporate them into our own (omg is there a more useless exercise to have to go through?!).

But no, I think he thinks he's *great* with managing, although he might classify himself as a "hands off" manager. He just doesn't realize that he's really not managing us at all. That would be fine, if I had my own clients and could generate work, but I don't. Oy.

No word on the transfer, I think this is going to be a slow process. I am starting to poke around online and look for other opportunities. I hate to give up the benefits I have, and I don't know if I can make the leap, but I'm looking, at least. It's just that *nothing* looks any better, you know? I'm just not seeing anything exciting... and I don't know if it means I am in the wrong field, or that I'm just depressed enough that nothing looks interesting at this point.

Good luck with this week - hope your boss manages back off a bit and let you get your work done!

Someday I will learn not to type a long response over the course of two days, only to see it vanish when I hit 'reply!'

I have worked for my friend before and I know that some people find her difficult to work for. She has a very methodical, strategic way of looking at things. If she asks you to make a recommendation, you need to demonstrate that you have thoroughly researched X and the alternatives to X that you discarded for reasons A and B.

I find that it is easy to give her what she is looking for - once you know that you basically need to type up all your notes and thought process into readable English. I wouldn't say that it is micromanagement, exactly - she will not question the decision you made as long as she is confident that *you* questioned it.

She's also very introverted and perhaps seems a bit distant to people because of it. She really cares very, very deeply about people, to an extent that would surprise anyone who watches her daily social interactions. Like if an employee's house burned down, she would let them move into her house, that kind of thing.

She'll never blindside you with a last minute request. Everything is planned and ordered. She's probably the opposite of your boss Is your boss the kind of person who would give a TEDx talk and talk about it as if he had given a TED talk? He reminds me of someone I know who did that...

I can't believe he had you pick out annual goals based on someone else's strategic initiatives that you'd had two seconds to process. Way to go! I hate those kinds of exercises too, especially when the pointlessness is just driven home by the fact that none of you had any time to put much thought into this. I can't believe he thinks he is a good manager!

How is your foot, btw? I took my first walk in about a month yesterday and it was great.

When you look at jobs, are you looking at *all* jobs, or just stuff in your field? If something outside of your field excites you when nothing related to what you currently do does... that seems like an indication of something, although I am not sure what.

Hi Hvert...

Sorry for not responding quicker, I've been struggling a bit with feeling depressed. And still fighting the sugar cravings, so I spent most of this weekend in bed... ugh.

Your friend sounds awesome, I'd love to work for someone like that. I naturally tend to want to explain my thought processes, and my boss really doesn't want to see all that - it's too much for him, he just wants 1 or 2 sentences with the answer And, I love the she plans things out and doesn't blindside folks... I bet she also doesn't have a lot of people sitting around with nothing to do on her team?

Nice that you were able to get out and walk... does that mean things have thawed at all by you? We got another snap of cold down here that was surprising, but thankfully no ice/snow near me.

My foot and ankle are still driving me crazy - not helping my mood, because I feel like they're *never* going to be better. I went on Monday to see my chiropractor, as she's helped me out with soft-tissue type things in the past and tends to be pretty smart about this stuff. She checked out the x-ray and my foot, and thinks it's soft tissue too, but thinks it was probably a bad sprain (and that I should have gone to the urgent care right away and got a boot for my foot - oops). She said the ligaments were probably pretty torn up, and it could be another 4-6 weeks... and if it's still hurting after that, to go to a specialist, but that I'll need some other type of imaging b/c the xray isn't giving a good enough view.

Sigh. It was feeling better, but it's been acting up the last few days... it's just stressful for it to feel fine... fine... fine... then suddenly for no reason to have a sharp sudden pain, you know?

The TED vs TEDx thing - yeah, that sounds like him . He's actually good at high level stuff, he's great at schmoozing with people and selling what we do. But he just doesn't seem to have any interest in actually *managing* people.

I did get to go sit in on a big fancy meeting last week with execs from another company (we're looking to see if we can provide do some work for them). It was interesting, though I felt a bit like a hobo... everyone dresses up so well, and I only got asked the day before, and I've gained back some weight, and had to rummage around to find clothes that weren't jeans/t-shirts. Sigh.

And, I saw the woman from the other team there! I said hi - but didn't really chat her up at all, and I felt bad about that afterwards... I bugged out of one of the demonstrations, because we had been standing for ~3 hours (!) and my foot was killing me, of course, and went back to the main conference room to have some lunch, and she was doing the same. Another woman joined, and they chatted about baby stuff - and I tried to be involved and smile and nod, but really was so tired from getting there early and from standing, that I didn't jump in and look as sociable as maybe I should have.

Oh, and no you're right - I'm not looking at *all* jobs, I'm looking for ones that I think I'd be qualified for... in my field. That's a good point... although I'm not sure that anything is going to excite me much right now.

Any luck with your boss? Any signs of him backing off a bit with the micro-managing?

I'd trust my intuition and graciously declind if I were you.

Wow, new development on my end. I was asked today to set up a workstation for a new hire. When I asked for his job title, I was told that he was like me but would be more on the programming side. I looked him up on LinkedIn and he looks very much on the network administration side, senior to anything I've been allowed to do - and we are flying people over from the parent company to take care of senior level networking at the end of the month.

So that all makes me feel pretty paranoid. I need to tamp down that paranoia and just focus on the software stuff I want to do on my own. My thought is that my obvious reluctance and my request to be a contractor rather than an employee has led to this? It's sort of confusing. I don't know if I should ask directly or what. My boss is acting like everything is A-OK and I will continue to be there, but... it just makes me feel really insecure. My boyfriend pointed out that it would be kind of odd that they couldn't hire anyone for years and suddenly hired two people in two months... ugh. I need to stop this train of thought. How?!

That really sucks that your foot is still giving you trouble. Why on earth did you have to stand for so long at that meeting?? They should give people chairs! I always feel like a hobo at those things. It doesn't matter if I am wearing name brand stuff - I always flub a detail or somehow make it look like I just pulled it out of the trash can.

Don't beat yourself up for not being hyper-social. It's kind of hard to stay focused on baby conversations if you don't have a baby, or at least I find that to be the case. I really would like to be better at schmoozing... and dressing... and not so fat. It's not hard to get depressed when I think about this stuff.

It *is* thawing out here - we still have many feet of snow, but parts of the road are no longer covered in ice, at least...

How on earth can I go from not wanting a job to being upset that I might not have this job shortly?

Wow... that job just gets weirder and weirder, doesn't it. Have you been able to put out any feelers with your friend, to try to get an idea of what's going on? It strikes me as really nuts that they'd be bringing in people so soon to do that stuff... I mean, given how long it took them to get you on-board, wouldn't they have had to have started the process with the new guy practically before you started?

When does he start? I guess you'll find out more when he gets there, and you see what he's actually doing... it would be hard for them to keep it a secret if he's going to be doing the same things you are, wouldn't it?

Given the timing, I don't know... I'd find it a bit hard to believe that it had anything to do with your reluctance to be an employee. They didn't figure that out until a few days before you started, right?

You could try asking your boss, casually, if you haven't yet (assuming you've started developing that kind of collegial relationship?)...

Are you still working on other leads, so you'll have a backup plan and next customer? I know, it's not fun... but if you decide to get out of there, or if they decide they want someone who can be an employee... a backup plan will save you some stress!

re: The meeting - we were in the lab, giving demos. Everyone was standing... three hours of demos! These were executive-types from another company, I was surprised the presentation wasn't mixed up a bit more to allow sitting time. I wonder if this is normal, and I'm just a wimp. Honestly, even without the injury, standing for that long tires me out!

Thanks for the comments on socializing and dressing! I wish I was better at connecting in situations like this, I just hate for her to get the idea that I'm not interested, or wouldn't be great to work with. Who knows though, since it's been so quiet, I'm back to not getting my hopes up. Again, just trying to focus on therapy and figuring out my life stuff, since my job appears to be fairly stable, despite the fact that there's not a lot for me to do.

Dressing and weight... I know, it's so hard! My weight fluctuates SO much, it's distressing! And, I see people who are a bit heavy-set like me, but still manage to look polished and put-together, and I just don't get how they do it. I feel like I need a quick course in finishing school !

Glad it's thawing out a little by you! Hang in there with the job situation... remember, most of the time the things we worry about don't actually happen (isn't there a statistic on that somewhere) - and even if you end up moving on, this should help you get new clients, right? Because now you've got recent experience to sell yourself... and even if it's short, it's a contract, so you can always sell it as, "Yup it was a short engagement, I came in and fixed some messes for them, and helped them get someone else up to speed to take over the boring day-to-day work. I'm great at getting messes straightened out by the way!"

I hope you hear something reassuring soon though! Being stressed is not fun!

I did ask my friend. She hadn't heard anything about this hire. A large firm that does something similar to what we do closed a division at the end of last year. We hired several of their employees. This guy is also from that company. I don't understand why they wouldn't have reached out to him months ago when they knew they had this big project coming up (except that they tend to just fly by the seat of their pants).

I'm also starting to get sort of paranoid because they've given me this big systems project but I think they are under the impression that I am going to do the work myself - which is just kind of nuts. It's not something you'd have inhouse IT doing or a contractor who didn't specialize in that exact thing. I think they have no idea what the scope of the project is. So in two weeks when I present a report, there may be some disappointment.

I can't believe your company treats external execs (never mind their own employees) to three hours of demos with no seats. That's shoddy! I can't think of any technical conference or presentation I've been to that's done that. That's not normal and I'm surprised that no one asked for a seat- or that no one thought it might make a good impression to make sure the guests were comfortable.

I get the back and forth. I don't want to be doing this work but I am so wiped out from it (still) that I have not been developing a back up plan. Some days I think that I can do this for a year or two and save some money. Other days, like Monday, I realize that this is short term and I need to start aggressively preparing for the end. It's just weird to think that the decision for it to be short term may come from their end rather than mine.

Hm. That all sounds really confusing. I'm not sure how I'd approach it, except to maybe come to some kind of peace with the fact that, at some point, the job will end. It might be next month or next year, but at some point... it will run its course. Hopefully getting comfortable with just that idea now will help create less anxiety when it actually happens (and maybe give you some mental space to look for other jobs?)...

Oh! I hate being in the situation that you are - when everyone seems to think one thing, and you've got to give them news that you know they're not going to like. It's so stressful! I'm sorry that they didn't understand from the start that the project needed more resources with specialized knowledge! Good luck with that!

re: the standing... I know, it's crazy! Some people seem to be really comfortable standing for that long (I think our director isn't bothered at all by it), but I was in the back leaning against a wall and trying to subtly stretch my back!

I haven't heard anything else about that project, and the project I'm on doesn't seem to need anything from me, especially as we brought on a new person. The new person is, of course, completely booked up on multiple projects . I feel like I'm going crazy! I don't understand why they want to pay me as much as they do, to sit around and do nothing!

We had someone come in and do a presentation on motivation/passion that was actually really interesting. He talked about a really big study that they did (it was huge, but I don't remember the exact number) - and how they came up with 5 types of people based on what motivates you:
- thinkers
- achievers
- caregivers
- builders (develop other people, into teamwork)
- reward-driven (similar to achievement, but like to get tangible benefits/public recognition - ie sales people motivated by commission)

I'm sure that I'm a thinker, but I think I'm partly, maybe an "achiever" also... and it drives me *crazy* that there's nothing for me to achieve - you know what I mean? I know the obvious thing is to go make up my own projects, and I'm not sure why I struggle with that, but... ugh... "frustrated underachieving achiever" feels like a good description of me!

I wonder if there's anything that would help re-energize you, to help with the depletion that the work is causing? I know what you mean, after my work-day, I haven't really wanted to do anything else... even though I'm not doing a lot of work, it's depressing enough that it just makes me feel beat up and exhausted. I don't know the answer, it's just a thought... it seems like if there was something that kind of "filled you back up" that might help give you the energy to think a little about your backup plan?

Or maybe you need a super extroverted sales-type person who can team up with you and "sell" your company, so that you can do they work, but they can handle finding the gigs.

That's a good idea, to get comfortable with the job ending at some point. There's something that will trigger a mass exodus within two years. I think all the other stuff was paranoia on my part. It's sort of the same issue I had in the beginning - I am interpreting lack of organization and general chaos as some sort of plan and it just isn't.

I vividly remember being wiped out from not having enough work to do and being worried that my employer would find out any day that they were paying me money to sit around waiting for someone to give me something to do. It's really an awful place to be in, perhaps worse than being overworked.

You're making the right moves, talking to other departments... but when you are in a dysfunctional organization, there's only so much you can do. Do you have any interest in taking on some of the management activities your boss neglects? It could be win-win - you get better exposure, he's happy, and your team finds some relief from his mismanagement.

After the job with too little work (and a bit of a break), I transitioned to a job that was very product oriented. I was responsible for getting Project A out the door by X date. All the projects were the same and it was pretty mindless -- and *so satisfying.* Very clear cut!

That motivation study does sound really interesting. I wonder if I would be an achiever? Or a thinker? What was a thinker? I'm guessing the part of me that daydreams about projects I never start/finish goes in the thinker category, LOL.

I'm hopeful that I will turn a corner soon re: my schedule and a backup plan. I am still so focused on short term goals. I have a ton of 'fun' stuff that I am trying to cram in now that I have $$$ to pay for it. A friend once told me that he thought carpe diem was an exhausting way to live. He was right!

Thanks for getting the thing with my work. It's so truly bizarre, especially working from home... I haven't talked to my boss (or emailed) all week, literally. I haven't had anything to do all week. I think I've finished all the free classes that I'm required to do (we have a bunch of classes they want us to do, so that we're ready for all the tech changes going on around us). I'm not allowed to do the paid ones, because my organization hasn't figured out how to pay for them yet I'm sitting in on a phone meeting (now!) for a project that I'm on, but there's no front-end work, so it's all back-end development that doesn't have anything to do with me...

I really don't mind some downtime... especially between busy projects. But, this... this feeling of having *nothing to do* for years and years (!) is just mind-boggling! And very crazy-making to me. I used to feel like a fairly smart person, but this is just killing my brain and my self-concept!

That's kind of awesome that you're catching up on fun stuff, now that you have money coming in! I love what your friend said about carpe diem! But, it's really cool that you've got things that you want to do, and have a little time and money to pursue them! It's a nice position to be in, even if it can be tiring at times!

re: Figuring out your next move, I wonder if you just set a tiny bit of time each week aside to think about it, like one hour on one day? That way, you might be able to prevent yourself from being overwhelmed with it (or from worrying too much, since you know you're working on it) - but you can still make a little progress? Do you have any ideas about what you want to do, or are you still sorting that out?

Oh, and re: management activities - no, I'm not really interested in that. It's not really a strength or interest of mine. But, thanks for the idea. You're right, if someone wanted to take over some of that, it could be helpful for my boss. Honestly, he really needs a secretary/assistant, and he gets a little help from our administrative person for the bigger team, but he's just so not detail-oriented. And, since he's not really (apparently) expected to act like a manager (i.e. his boss is giving him plenty of "individual" work for him to do), I don't know... the whole system is just screwed up! Sigh, I don't get it.

And the motivation study! You know what? I didn't write any notes about the "thinker" type because I thought, "Aha! Thinker, yeah, I get that!" LOL! If you want to check the guy out, his name is Chester Elton, and his book about this is "What Motivates Me: Put Your Passions to Work" (here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/099...=ATVPDKIKX0DER )

The new version of the book (as opposed to used) apparently comes with a key to do an online test, but he said that honestly, you can usually guess your type pretty easily. And, you aren't necessarily just one type, you can be one primary type with a little bit of another type.

He mentioned that "thinkers" (probably because of all the thinking!) tend to be a bit slower getting things done sometimes, and need time to adjust to change. He gave the example of something as simple as getting his family out of the car at the mall - that he's out and ready to go really fast, but his thinker son takes a bit longer to get himself together and organized and out. It sounds kind of odd now, but it made sense when he said it !

Adding a thought...

One of the things that Chester talked about was how, as a manager, you need to make sure you reward your employees in ways that are actually meaningful/rewarding *to them*, and how these types tie in to that.

For a thinker, one way to reward them is to give them a really interesting, complicated project. I relate to this. From very early on in my career I told people (and meant it!) that all I need to be happy is interesting projects! Give me hard problems to solve, and let me work in peace, without too much bureaucracy or micro-managing or other interpersonal stressors. I'm not super motivated by extra money (though I of course appreciate it!) and I really don't want big awards ceremonies (ick!), and generally don't care about titles/promotions (although again, I see why they're important/useful). All I want is cool, challenging projects that I can really stretch my brain on, and the feeling of achievement when I figure them out!

Other good rewards for thinkers: flex time, conferences, eliminating bureaucracy...

Not sure if that makes sense, or if you relate to it?

For the other types...

- builders: rewards are things like more management responsibilities, allowing them to be a mentor to others, leadership development/opportunities... all of these make me cringe!

- caregivers - rewards are things that allow them to spend more time with their families (better work-life balance, work from home, flex time) and letting them work with new people in other parts of the organization so they can form new relationships. I like the work-life balance, but not for the same reasons (I like it for the freedom it provides and opportunity to pursue hobbies, a caregiver would like it for the chance to care better for their family).

- Achievers - reward by giving them special projects, letting them jump in on a project in crisis to save the day, letting them solve a tough customer problem, letting them lead the creation of a new product/service, letting them lead a team

- Reward-Driven - reward by giving them *stuff* - money, incentives, stock, trips, gifts, prizes because that's how they "keep score", and make a big deal over their achievements, post it everywhere, let everyone know

It's interesting for sure. I really wish more bosses were aware of stuff like this, it seems like management 101. It just strikes me as crazy that I'm the type of person that will twist myself up in to a pretzel to come up with a good solution and do great work, I get very personally invested and work hard to get things done on time, and done well. And my boss would rather have me home, cleaning my house, typing on forums, and eating too much chocolate (!) rather than actually being productive on work-related work! On top of that, I keep hearing that our bigger team is turning away work, because we don't have the bandwidth to handle it!!!

Oh wow, I have to get this from the library -- these sound like really interesting people. A business writer from Utah who wrote a book about rewarding employees on a daily basis??? Not your normal business book author! OMG, remember the one minute manager? I read a counter to that, the 59 second employee. I wasn't sure if it was satire...

I'd like to see a category for people who work to live - like you, I want work-life balance because I value freedom and enjoy my hobbies. I don't quickly recognize myself in any of these, so maybe taking the test would be worthwhile for me... Like, I would say that I am not a builder, but the only part of supervising I *did* like was helping people develop their skills and move on to bigger and better things -- and I love having my own company.

Caregiving - yeah, I would rather be at home. I enjoy solving people's problems and making their work-life easier.

Achieving - I like getting things done and checking off items on my to-do lists. I like doing. I don't like being a team lead and being responsible for other people's doing of things because other people never seem as driven to do as I am... and then I just pick up the slack and wind up really burned out and resentful. Trying to get better at that! I am finally starting to realize that this perpetual frustration I've always had is due to *me* being different and not other people being lazy.

And I do want rewards (just money, thanks) because the more reward, the less I have to work.

Your boss is such a bad boss. Really, just head-shakingly bad. I do hope you can switch to another team or even get part of your hours shifted. How do these places stay in business when they are so badly managed?!

It sounds like you have room in your schedule for freelance or volunteer projects -- just to keep your hand in things and have something in your portfolio if/when you decide to jump ship

Re: what I want to do or what my backup plan is - no, still no clue. Or maybe I have clues, but I change my mind every five minutes. I would say that I have ... 5-6 projects that I'd like to finish and launch. A couple are or were frustratingly close to being done. And then there's this idea that I might like to sell services. I would much rather sell products than services, but services are quick money...

So I move in the direction of keeping my options open. When will I focus?!

Also, I am failing to remember what it is, but I swear there is a book or a movie about a person who has nothing to do at work all day for years on end. I don't think I'm thinking of Bartleby the Scrivener. It seems like something Orwell would have written...

And have you read Martin Lukes? It was a hysterically funny column in the FT written by Lucy Kellaway in the voice of a manager at a company called ab global. Even though the column went on for years, you never found out what ab global actually sold

I finally sat down today to figure out all the payroll/tax stuff. Now I feel really poor!

Oh no! Sorry that getting through your payroll/tax stuff left you feeling poor! That's not good!

I didn't read the one minute manager - was it good? I tend to shy away from management books, since management sounds sort of boring to me .

And you know, I think I'd need less work-life balance if I had something work-related that I could be really passionate about. If I were say... writing movies, I don't know that I'd need as much time away. I like the idea of having something that you're so passionate about... it doesn't feel like work. I love the idea. But I've been "loving the idea" for like, 20 years, and am not any closer to actually figuring out how to implement it. At this point, I'm not sure I have the time/energy left for a passionate career like that

I really relate to what you said about achieving, but not wanting to be responsible for other people achieving! Of course, that's part of what feels crazy to me about my current situation - I *want* to work! And, I'm smart - and do *good* work. Why the heck won't my boss let me work?!?!?!? Is there any universe where this makes sense? It makes me feel like I'm living in some bizarre alternate reality!

What's up with your "almost completed" projects? They sound really close to being done... is there something holding you back from just putting some time on your calendar and knocking one or two of them out? I bet the feeling of getting them done and launched would be really great, plus I'm assuming they could help bring in some cash?

And, yeah... I should be doing some kind of freelancing. I think I'm scared that as soon as I start something, I'll suddenly be inundated with work from the day job, and I don't want to give up my free time for more work. Maybe that's crazy though, maybe if I started freelancing I'd start to feel a bit more competent again, make some more money, and eventually be able to just freelance...

re: How these places stay in business, oh Hvert... this is such a *huge* huge huge big company. Trust me, you know who they are and if you have any kind of stock index fund, you own shares of them. You might even have services with them! I don't think it's the company, per se... (although it seems to be way too bloated with middle-management), I think it's my boss. And I have no idea how nobody seems to pick up on the fact that he's a terrible manager. I think he's personable, and he's doing a lot of individual work for HIS boss, and his boss is happy about that. What I can't understand is how, at his boss' level, they're supposedly turning away projects because "we don't have the bandwidth/resources"! That's just crazy and sad.

Martin Lukes sounds funny, and no, I had never heard of it! I'll have to see if I can find it online...

Anyway, it's Monday and I'm tired and bored. I've started a Coursera class on gamification that I should go watch... but I'm seriously considering curling up in bed and watching DVRed episodes of "Intervention"

Hope your Monday isn't awful!

The one minute manager was awful. So was 'who moved my cheese.' My memories of these books are pretty vague, but I seem to recall being forced to read them by an employer.

I also like the idea of being so passionate about something that it doesn't feel like work. I have too many ever changing passions for that... and I also really doubt that there's any job that is pure bliss. Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages. I enjoy some of the agricultural stuff I do as a hobby and have considered getting a job more aligned with those activities... but the money is a huge drawback.

Writing movie scripts sounds like fun, but maybe it wouldn't be if you had a deadline to meet and a producer who wanted you to write in a part for his dreadful sister-in-law or make massive edits you know are wrong. The truth is that there is no job that is just writing movie scripts all day - 70% of it is probably networking and schmoozing.

So, it is a nice idea, but for me it is in the same category as winning the lottery. It would be nice but it's not realistic.

I don't know what my problem is with these unfinished projects. I have a few hours today to actually pick one up and work on it, but am I doing that? Nope. Is it ADD? I don't really know. I think I have really unrealistic expectations about how long it takes to do something... and there's also this weird sense that I can't really do X until I do Y and Y is something along the lines of 'get my life/house in order.' You'd think it would be easier to just sit down and work on something than it is. When it comes down to it, I really don't need to make this complicated or think about how long it will take me to do X or why I want to do a, b, and c and which one should I pick today. I need to just pick one and do it. My BF pointed out that I started one of these projects 4 years ago. Crazy.

Yeah, today it definitely feels like I have 60 million things I want to do and I can't pick one - so I just don't do any, or I start one and then move on to something else.

It would be great if getting a freelance client triggered something that resulted in a ton of work coming in at your day job! If you had to give up some free time, it would just be temporary. You don't have to commit to a freelance career, just get one client... or volunteer project?

Time for me to set a timer and try to focus...

I think I read the cheese book! I think my mom had wanted me to read it, a really long time ago, when I was visiting! Yeah, I remember being not terribly impressed... oh, and we were required to read "Good to Great" (?) for work. All I can remember from that was... thinking, I am SO on the wrong bus. I wonder if anyone else knows? I'm the one that they need to kick off the team!

I don't expect that *any* job is ever pure bliss, but I do think (hope!) that there are things out there that are rewarding, interesting, and meaningful enough that most of what you do is enjoyable, and the less-enjoyable parts feel less awful and all-consuming, because of the more enjoyable parts. For example, you might love hiking - but hate driving. But really, the small amount of time that you have to spend driving to a place to hike, even if you hate it, isn't that bad, because there's more than enough good-stuff from the hike to outweigh it, if that makes sense.

But, yeah, I get that *any* job is going to have some less exciting/fun aspects.

re: Not finishing up projects... is it that you haven't really planned to do it or prioritized it, so you don't think about it when you have time? Or maybe that it feels hard to start on (overwhelming, difficult?).

I think those are the big ones for me. Either I didn't make a plan, so when I have free time, I just look around to see what I want to do, and the project doesn't really grab my attention... or if I feel overwhelmed thinking about something. In that case, starting is usually harder than doing, and it helps me to spend just a little time getting my head around a concrete list of goals to get through. I don't have to do the goals right away, but listing them lets me know exactly what I need to do, so I don't get so overwhelmed feeling like it's just a never-ending sea of stuff.

But, that's me. Sometimes just saying, "I'm going to work on this for one hour (and only one hour) on this day" and scheduling it helps... it forces me to actually get past the "getting started" and get into the work, and that, sometimes, makes it easier.

But, oh gosh - I totally feel like you described sometimes too (that I have to get my house/life in order before I can start anything new). It's such a weird thing, isn't it? I don't know where that comes from, other than maybe feeling like things are chaotic and I feel overwhelmed trying to make just the mundane, boring parts of my life work... so the idea of ADDING more stuff seems crazy! The problem is, when I have free time... I don't routinely work on the house/life stuff... I curl up in bed and watch TV!!!

If you're having trouble picking one, could you pick the one that is closest to being done? My thinking is that way, you have the shortest path to finished, and then you get to feel proud and awesome for completing it - and maybe see some income if it's something you're going to sell online! Positive reinforcement!

Hmmm a volunteer project could be interesting. I wonder if I feel resistance because I don't want to be doing what I'm doing... it's that feeling that I really *should* be putting my free time into figuring out what I truly want, and since that seems to involve things like writing and theater, maybe taking classes and working more seriously on that stuff. I need to think about how I can get a little more of that in my life, without overwhelming myself too much.

Oh! I am going to try to grab lunch with my piano teacher's ex-wife! I run into her from time to time at the music place, and had mentioned it before to her (we're friendly, but not super close). I talked to her tonight, and she sounded like she'd like to do it too... and one of my goals is trying to expand my infinitesimal social circle So, it's not a job, but I feel kind of happy about that!

Congrats on connecting with your piano teacher's ex-wife! Lunch dates are fun-- and if you are out of the house, you are sure to be inundated with work, right?!

Re: jobs and bliss. I agree that most jobs are going to have fun and less fun elements... but for me, the less fun elements sort of ruin the fun. Hiking in the woods for pleasure is fun... but jobs where you get paid to hike are maybe not so much fun.

-You can act as a paid guide and take other people with you. Downside to that is acquiring customers will take at least as much time as actually guiding any of them - and they can be really, really awful. I hang out with a lot of guides and have heard some amazing stories
-You can write about it, but you have to be okay being poor (unless you are really good at networking) -- and diligent about finding people to pay you (and then follow up that they pay you).
-You can get someone to pay you for surveying or something, but that means you aren't choosing where you hike. You could be going through a housing development for 60% of the job.
-You could be a park ranger - but, again, you are dealing with people, have crappy pay, and don't really pick out where you go or what you do.

For me, hiking in the woods *alone* turns out to be a pretty big part of what I like about hiking... so it makes more sense (for me at this moment) to work doing something that pays better than any of those other things so I can take more time off to engage in that activity.

That having been said, one of the things I've been considering is an Americorps type program in our park system... but it pays less than minimum wage. If this job I am in now falls through, that might be the next option I go for So much for rational choices!

With not finishing up projects - I'm starting to see a pattern where I go for the easy tactical vs. the big project. I am going to try breaking up one of the projects into manageable chunks, stuff I can sit down for 30 minutes and do, and see if that helps.

I've had a tendency in the past to overplan projects, though, so... it's just frustrating. I know that the majority of people self sabotage in this way, but I hate doing it! I want to be different!

I also have this overwhelming sense that I used to be different - but was I? Maybe I am nostalgic for something that never was?

And it's 8:00 and I already want to go to bed! I don't want to do project planning. I want to fool around online. I actually need to finish a clay project I started yesterday, before it dries out...

I know what you mean about not getting excited about doing a volunteer work project because you don't want to be doing that kind of work... so maybe this is a cubicle vacation, a time to get paid to learn about the things that do interest you?

When you catch yourself feeling bad about the lack of work, can you tell yourself to stop? I am trying to do this when I get paranoid thoughts about my situation. I'm not good at it yet, but it does seem to take occasionally, lol.

Well, I haven't actually *connected* with her yet. I'm confused. Every time I see her, she's happy and excited to see me, and friendly. She seemed enthusiastic about the idea of doing lunch, and sent me her email right then and there. And... she hasn't replied to my email asking her about scheduling, and what days/times work best. So, now I feel a little stupid. She may be too busy, but I don't know why she wouldn't say something like, "Oh wow, I'd love to grab lunch with yo sometime - but right now my life is just crazy busy, I'm working three jobs, home schooling the kids, and taking a cooking class. I just don't think I can fit it in... but thanks for asking!" Or whatever. Maybe she really is just nuts.

Your hiking-as-a-job analogy works, I see what you mean. I just can't give up on the idea that there must be a job that's at least *tolerable*. Maybe it's just hard right now, because my current job feels so ridiculous. Seriously, I've done *nothing* at all this week. I called in to 1-2 short meetings but I have not done any actual work. At all. As in, I've spent huge chunks of my day catching up on the DVR. It just feels so *unreal*.

I guess I need to ping my boss (again!) and remind him that I have plenty of room for a new project. Maybe I need to start sending him weekly reminders (you know, since we don't actually do status reports or regular team meetings, hahahaha! )

The Americorps program sounds like a neat alternative, though the really low pay sounds a bit painful! How long is the commitment?

"I've had a tendency in the past to overplan projects, though, so... it's just frustrating. I know that the majority of people self sabotage in this way, but I hate doing it! I want to be different!"

Wait, really? Are you sure that most people overplan? I think I had the impression that most people do no planning (maybe it's just the people in my world!) - which would make you plenty different!

Either way, I think breaking it up into chunks that you can get done in 30 or so minutes makes total sense! And then, set some time aside to do those chunks - good luck! I hope you can get some of that off your plate, I love the feeling of having accomplished something, and I bet getting to that point will give you a bit more motivation to work on the rest of the projects!

"I also have this overwhelming sense that I used to be different - but was I?" How so? Do you mean that you think that previous-you would have got the projects done more quickly? Or is it something else?

I guess we're always different, in some way... I mean, we're always (hopefully) learning new things and changing, experiencing different things that change us and our world-views. So, yeah, you probably were different years ago. I'm sure I was... and I don't know if the change has been for the better.

Hey, maybe that's part of happiness? Feeling like you're changing for the better, like you and your life are getting better each year. It does kind of suck to look back over the decades and feel like, "meh, none of it really mattered and I'm not really any better off than I was twenty years ago".

If you're ready for bed at 8pm, maybe you really need the sleep? You seem to get up super early (judging from your posts!)... maybe your body just needs some rest? Nothing wrong with that!

And thanks, I will try telling my brain to stop feeling bad about the lack of work. I think really it's the sense of boredom though. And, the sense of not mattering, of being invisible, stuck in a corner and forgotten about. I feel so unimportant which would be fine if it were just a few days, but it seems to be a long-term recurring theme at this particular job. Yuck!

Hope you got your clay project finished and had fun with it!

Huh, I wonder if your piano teacher's ex is one of those people who says 'we have to get coffee!' as a form of 'hello, how are you?' I think 10% of the population is wired that way She probably just forgot to reply to your email and now it's buried under 40 other messages. I find I do that a lot nowadays - I check my email on 4 different devices. I might scan a long message from a friend while waiting in line at the grocery store and then realize weeks later that I forgot to reply when I got home.

A lot of jobs are going to be more tolerable than the one you currently have! I don't know how you stand that. Is there some kind of online degree or certification you could pursue while you wait for something to do? Or an online script writing class? You'd have a lot to contribute in a class on Waiting for Godot, right?!

I do need the sleep - I tend to wake up in the middle of the night and sometimes can't get back to sleep. I slept three hours the other night and still feel pretty sleep deprived from that... so part of me wants to head into the studio and another part of me just wants to watch a movie for 20 minutes until I pass out.

As someone who really resisted (and still resists) going back to doing something I don't really want to do, after two extraordinarily horrible jobs, I will say that some experiences are truly extraordinary. The weirdness and dysfunction I am encountering at this place might be irritating, but it is nothing compared to a truly traumatic situation (like not being given work for months and years on end, or having an abusive boss).

Your current situation is pretty extreme. Even if you aren't sure that you want to continue in your field, being at a normal job would give you mental space to think about what you really want to do. Who can concentrate on that when dealing with a crazy work situation?

I do think most of us tend to plan or think about or intend to do projects more than we actually do them. I usually do a ton of research and reading, sometimes develop a game plan, get started, then abandon. I'm *really* noticing that I do this at work and it kind of interests me. Since I am getting paid to do stuff, I think it's going to be easier to stop this habit there - I hope!!!

Today I had my first exposure to people's technology use outside of what my boss has described. It was intense - I am supposed to make recommendations about unifying a certain aspect of their systems across multiple branches and departments. After talking to some different reps from these places, it seems pretty impossible.

And I do feel like I used to be better at this stuff. It's like I have gone through phases in my life where I get a ton done ... and then there are fallow periods. This has been a long fallow period, unless I am just not giving myself proper credit for my accomplishments. I am pretty sure I could have accomplished 10x more than I did during my last sabbatical, though. So, yeah, I am not sure that the change has been for the better. I am better at certain things now than I used to be, but I miss the ... persistence I feel like I used to have.

Really, I am pretty sure that I never had it any more than I do now - it just feels that way I have always, for years and years, had this feeling that I do not get enough done.

Ah, thanks for the explanation about the email. That makes sense. I tend to just check email on my computer, so I don't often miss things in that way. And, I'm sure she's busy. Anyway, I'm trying to reach out to connect better with people, so it's a little bit of a bummer that she didn't respond.

I think part of what's hard with work is that there was a time... long long ago!... when I did have stuff to do. Heck, I used to lead projects. I did tons of user testing, and was getting into more design. I had internal clients that *loved* me.

But our group has been through a lot of changes. A few years back, we were merged with another group and got someone above my boss that hated us, and honestly, a lot of my work stopped then. They decided that they wanted us to be an "innovation" group, so all of our internal clients that depended on us were cut loose... this guy just decided we weren't going to do that type of ongoing work anymore.

Which should be great. There should be a ton of innovative, cool, exciting new projects for me to work on.

But it just hasn't turned out that way. And honestly, if my boss were better at managing a team, it wouldn't have turned out this way either. I hate feeling like I'm being squeezed out though because... (and this sounds ridiculous), if they would just give me work to do, it could be a great job!!!

It feels like a bad movie. And I used to have a bit more zest to find stuff to do on my own, but I'm tired, and struggling with being depressed, and just don't seem to have energy to go and make work for myself right now. Taking a nap is so much easier !

Oh well, I'll figure something out. I'm going to try to talk to my boss again this week. Maybe I'll try setting some work-related educational type goals for myself (i.e. Coursera). I do have a Coursera course starting in a week or so that I need to do for work, so that will occupy my time.

I also think I might sign up for a "Crafty" (?) class on sewing. I'd like to be able to sew stuff... it's something I've only just recently become interested in, but I think it could be neat. And I like that you have something to show for your work when you're done with a project .

Anyway - your project sounds like it could be fun, if it weren't looking so impossible! Meeting with a bunch of people in different groups and figuring out how get them on the same page with technology sounds like it could be very cool! Are they really doing things so differently that it doesn't look like it's going to be possible? That must be so frustrating!

And, it's interesting that you've always felt like you don't get enough done. I wonder if it's really that you're not doing as much as you could, or if you just have very high expectations? Do you think you're naturally a more detailed-oriented planner who wants to get everything figured out first, before jumping into action? That's OK (I'm probably like that ) but it's good to know if that's your thing, so you can consciously pick a point to say to yourself, "OK, that's as much planning as I can do... the only way to move forward is to take action!"

You know, I love reading about various personality systems... have you seen the "DISC" system (forgive me if we've covered this already!)

I don't remember exactly what each letter stands for, because I learned it with colors... but same thing. We all have a little of each "type", but everyone has different levels of strength in each one...

- Blue: Analytical
- Green: Harmonizing (imagination, peace-maker)
- Yellow: Social, Fun, Interactive, Chatterbox, Playful
- Red: Driven - for lack of a better word.

I think you're describing a lack of "red". I worked at a place with a lot of engineers when we had someone come and talk about this system, and most of them were *strongly* red and blue. I have almost no red. The red is that ability to push through, get things done, sense of being driven, leadership ability, etc.

I'm not sure I've got it 100% accurate, but that's how I remember it, and it made so much sense... because I tend to get run over by people like that!

What was funny, the woman teaching this stuff divided us in groups for a few activities. First, she put us in groups that were similar. I'm primarily blue/green, and she put me with a lot of green people. It was one of those tasks where you have to build a tower out of spaghetti... you know what I mean.

Our poor group. Nobody seemed to want to take control, we just kind of were like... really laid back. *I* was the most driven (and I'm not at all driven) and I ended up trying to take charge because the leadership void was killing me. It really was... kind of funny, but sad too! Needless to say, we did not win the challenge.

(The group that won was mostly red, I think... and they cheated! She said red people were also more likely to try to push boundaries and break the rules, especially in a competitive situation like this where they're very motivated to WIN at all costs!)

For the next activity she put us in more balanced groups... my group had 2 mostly red guys who just took charge from the start, organized stuff, were a little bit bossy, but somehow made everything happen SUPER FAST. I sat back a little, and made sure I was ready to contribute my piece of the puzzle when they needed it. We won... but beyond that, it was such a different experience.

I sort of wish I had more of that red energy! But, I don't think I do. I'm just not a take-charge, drive for results, get-it-done-now-at-any-costs type of person.

Sorry for the tangent, not sure if that's helpful. But I was wondering if that's part of what you're feeling... a lack of that "red energy" in trying to get stuff done?