Feel Trapped Into Accepting Job

Ha ha, there is a smiley cap! I have nothing scheduled today and am really excited about this. I've been good about not *reading* those emails, even if I am checking them occasionally. And I'm scheduling separate meetings without the CEO to talk about the service stuff. I just can't believe their reaction - they could save more than they pay me in a year.

Maybe once you start a business and get a significant enough client base, you can coast??? Or maybe you just have to make enough good decisions to balance the bad ones? I really would love to understand how it works.

And sometimes the crazy *does* catch up to them. I worked for a company a few years ago that had one owner who was pretty insane and always making bad decisions. I've heard they are winding down operations now.

Your parents do sounds pretty negligent, letting your brother run rampant like that! The thing where they want to be best friends now that you're an adult is truly aggravating. My father does that and I'm just ... you have to be kidding me. My parent's divorce agreement said that my mother would pay 25% of my medical bills and my father would pay 80%. I started having to pay the 75% myself when I was 15 and got my first job because my father wouldn't give me the money and my mother refused to pay.

So, yeah, they want to be best friends after putting their own self interest ahead of their child's interest when the child did not have the resources to make up for it? Whatever. I just wonder what happens when they get old. Am I going to be expected to take care of them when they didn't take care of me?

What learning is that if I don't respond to my father's messages or comply with my mother's unvoiced desires, nothing really happens. Maybe it annoys them, but there's no real downside for me. They just don't contact me as much, which is a good thing!

Wow, if you've finally found a good therapist, that's hard to give up, even if it's pricey. It sounds like some of your others were *really* bad, taking things personally. Don't they cover that early on in their training????? Have you had a really specific conversation with him about where you want to be in a given time frame or what a successful experience for you *would* look like?

LOL, this is not the same thing at all, but it kind of is. I'm trying to decide if I am going to continue with the pottery. The classes I've been taking are very focused on functional items. I've been doing them for four months now and STILL don't have anything functional that's free of significant flaws. Am I just talentless? I don't know. It's a kind of expensive way to acquire misshapen bowls and unusable plates. I was at an event at a high school the other night and noticed that the HS students had stuff that was a lot nicer than anything I've made so far!

So, yeah, it's hard to tell how long it takes to make visible progress and whether or not you are just wasting your money and time... but if this is the first therapist you have found who you seem to click with... and what about taking a break or a reduced schedule?

You know, the CEO thing is weird... someone was JUST telling me this week about problems she's having with her husband's ex-CEO. He didn't want her husband to leave the company and is making all sorts of absurd threats against him. The CEO is in touch with the husband's ex-wife (and my friend is cordial enough with the ex to know what's going on), so I got to hear part of the email to the ex... and it was just stupidly ridiculous.

I know I've read somewhere that there are more psychopaths as CEOs than any other career! So I don't know what the deal is, but it seems like being crazy and pushing people around might actually be more useful in that role than actual intelligence or skills?

And ugh - I'm so sorry about your parents, and you having to figure out how to pay most of your medical bills as a teenager. Geez! Yeah, I really don't get people who have kids then decide not to actually take care of them. And, yeah, I think people who ignore their kids and then want to be friends when they're all grown up are just ridiculously out of touch with reality. It IS frustrating!

Do you have any brothers or sisters? It can make it a bit easier, I think. You asked about having to take care of them... I think you have to make that choice yourself. It's really, really hard.

In our case, my sister and I (we have a brother, but he's still struggling with addiction/jail) tried to help my dad out a bit when he lost his job. But, he's so... immature? Clueless? Not together? After we gave him money, we didn't hear anything from him for awhile... like... nothing (including my 40th birthday, nothing!). Then in August I tried to contact him for his birthday, and found out that he had moved and didn't tell any of us (!). You might remember that thread here, it made me feel absolutely nuts! Like, seriously? I think my sister is finally at the point that she isn't willing to give him more money - ironically, not because he didn't pay back what we gave him (we both knew that wouldn't/couldn't, we assumed it would be a gift to him) - but because there was absolutely no sense of gratitude or desire to stay in touch, at all. He's depressed, I get that. But this has been a pattern for our whole adult lives, so it's pretty well-established at this point. Honestly, I wasn't sure we should have given him any money to start with, but I care about my sister, and make more than her... so I didn't want her to shoulder that alone.

I feel bad for him. But honestly, he's made so many really bad decisions. He's in his 60s now and has no clue on how to manage money, hasn't saved *anything*, doesn't own a house, and basically gave a good chunk of his income (or so we believe) to the ex-girlfriend so she could be the horse farm she's got now. It's just crazy. (Oh yeah, and he cashed out my college fun when I was in 9th grade, just before kicking me out of the house and sending me back to my mom's.) So, yeah, sorry, but I'm not feeling any sense of personal obligation here.

I don't know, maybe you'll be nicer than me but like I said, I think you've got to sort of determine what you feel OK doing. Part of my issue is... I'm alone, not married, no kids... so I really have to make sure that I'm saving money for retirement, so I don't end up where my dad is now. I'm not willing to sacrifice that, because I really would have no place to go.

And, I *love* your advice about not responding to your parent's unvoiced requests. Thanks. I will have to take a deep breath and keep that in mind.

re: The therapists... yeah it's been nuts. I really wonder if therapy is just not what it's cracked up to be. It's so frustrating to see people that have really gotten something out of it, when it generally just leaves me feeling like I've been beating my head against a wall.

This current guy has some good points, but there's a lot of things that I feel like he just doesn't get. He tries much harder than the other ones though, and never gets defensive (which is impressive, since I... apparently... am really good at very nicely telling therapists that *everything* they do is *wrong*!) I wish it weren't so expensive... OR that it were more obviously helpful now. I just hate to keep going and spending so much money, only to find out much later that it wasn't at all helpful. I just don't know.

Maybe you're right... I'm not sure that I should take a break now (I still feel like I'm getting started) but I wonder if it would be helpful going back to every other week. It would definitely help the finances... but then 2 weeks between sessions ends up feeling like an *eternity*. It's never easy, is it?!

re: The pottery class... are you still *enjoying* it? If doing it is still fun, and you still feel like you're learning (i.e. you don't feel like you've plateaued) - I think there's value in continuing. I've never done pottery, but four months isn't that long. Though, I can imagine how discouraging it would feel to have all those reminders around... all the pieces you made and aren't happy with! (I assume there's no way to melt them back down and re-use them? ) In the grand scheme of things 4 months isn't much (it's like 1 semester if you were in school, but if you were in school, you'd be doing it every day!)... especially for something that requires such physical-ness, you know (as opposed to reading a book and learning something fast). The physical stuff seems to always take longer!

I read somewhere (you've probably seen this) that there was a study on making art. The people who were the best at the end of the class were the ones who made a LOT of art during the class... i.e. they got better by making tons and tons and tons of bad pieces (it might even have been pottery, I can't remember!). The other half of the class spent a lot of time working on fewer pieces, I think, trying to learn as much as they could from each one and to "perfect" each one (which is more in tune with how I like working!). They didn't do as well. There was something about doing it over and over and over hundreds of times that helped the students get better, even though a lot of what they were doing wasn't very good.

But really, I think the end determiner should be how you feel doing it, if you're still enjoying it, and still feel like you're learning and engaged (and not bored).

Hope you had a good weekend, and managed to avoid anything work-related!!!

Do we have the same father????? Mine offered me a $5 bill to pay for college. He has no job, never saved money, spends it as soon as it comes in, doesn't even own a car that runs at this point... I look at him and see a really good reason not to smoke pot for 40 years.

My father has been living with a GF for years in a house neither of them own that's now in foreclosure. Last week I heard that he was moving in with my only brother that's still on speaking terms with him. My brother (who really can't afford a non paying roommate) says it's not true, but... I don't know. I can see my brother letting him in and not wanting to tell anyone else.

I couldn't let my father stay with me. He's horrible to live with on top of being incredibly irresponsible. I might give him a ride to a shelter, but I am not sure if the third sibling would even do that.

I do kind of remember your thread. I also can see how the money was really to help your sister and I am glad that you are both probably going to turn off that tap. I think people who live their lives that way don't even really notice who is paying their bills. If one person won't, someone else will... or someone else won't and it won't really matter.

I have some unorthodox thoughts/skepticism about the medical industry in general, so it's hard for me to be objective about therapists. It sounds like you are concerned that a) it might not be helpful and b) it's expensive.

Have you brought these concerns (helpfulness + expense) up directly with him? I think it would be a great idea to talk about what success looks like and how you could measure it. How *can* you tell if it's working? This has to be something therapists receive training on, right? They have to know whether or not their treatments are effective so they can tweak them or change course.

Have you heard of 'S.M.A.R.T' goals? It's a business management thing, but I actually think it's pretty good. Copying from Wikipedia...

Specific – target a specific area for improvement.
Measurable – quantify or at least suggest an indicator of progress.
Assignable – specify who will do it.
Realistic – state what results can realistically be achieved, given available resources.
Time-related – specify when the result(s) can be achieved.

I guess it can't apply to everything, but if you are paying for a service, it makes sense to me that you should have a way of telling whether or not you are getting what you paid for. It's really hard if you are working through stuff that could take years to process, but are you getting a toolbox that will help you? Has he told you how many sessions he thinks you will need?

I'm still not sure about the pottery class. The past few weeks, it's felt sort of like a burden. I need more days with nothing scheduled. The class is only three hours and it's fun, but it's still scheduled so I find it stressful. I am pretty sure that doesn't really make sense, but... it seems to be the way my mind works.

I also have a lot of hobbies that involve being outside at this time of year. This class ties me down to my town for the day - no grand hiking or kayaking adventures. It may be that I am better off taking an evening class on a work day, now that I think about it... but then my day will be so long!

I did hear about that study and it *was* about pottery! They set one group making a single perfect pot and one group making as many as they could. The group that focused on quantity vs. quality improved more quickly. I have gone into the studio and set up ten pots that I later destroyed (you can reuse the clay if you don't fire it!), but I am not seeing much improvement... or, maybe I am, actually, but it's sooooo slowwwwwwww.

I had a pretty stressful weekend (fight with BF, intensive first aid training). Plus, I had to do some work. This is just SO not the situation I wanted to be in. I am not sure how to disengage from it now. There's always some reason not to at this very moment, if that makes sense? Not checking email really helps...

Oh wow... I'm sorry you had such a stressful weekend. It sounds stressful. What part of the job are you having trouble disengaging with? It sounded like you were managing to avoid the emails... is it just that stuff is piling up, and they expect it done sooner than you can reasonably do it in the hours that they agreed to? (For example, if they are expecting 40 hours worth of work to be done in just the 24 or so hours that you're working during the week - that would be really stressful, and I can see how hard it would be to not use the weekends to try to stay on top of everything.)

I hope everything is OK with you and your boyfriend!

Wow - yeah - it sounds like our dads must be related. I can't believe he gave you $5 for college! That's ridiculous and crazy and just plain mean. I do feel a little bad about my dad, honestly, because I don't think he's *mean* on purpose. He's been depressed as long as I can remember, and just doesn't seem to be able to take care of anything. It's like he never learned to function well as an adult - basic stuff, like budgeting. At the same time, I can't really take that on, I have my own crap to deal with, and I'm not his parent. I get how debilitating depression is (and honestly, his mother was probably abusive towards him and his siblings), but you know what? When you decided to have kids, you needed to step up and figure it out. Even crazier, he actually works (or worked, when he had a job) in mental health. Really frustrating !

Thanks, you're exactly right - I'm worried that therapy won't be effective, and that it's too expensive to just let it go on for years "trying it out". I've seen the "smart" goals before - I like the idea - but I'm not sure how to wrap up goals like, "a better sense of self" into concrete measurable things. I think my goals are inherently fuzzy, which probably doesn't help! I just wish it wasn't so frustrating - I go back and forth thinking it's just a waste of money, versus thinking my life is screwed up, I'm getting older, this person may be my best bet at figuring it out and getting things a bit sorted out before I really do become too old for any of it to matter (and boy, do I feel like I'm getting there!)

re: The pottery class, the idea that's it's both fun and stressful makes perfect sense to me, that's how I felt about acting class. It was insanely fun and energizing (and exhausting), but there was also stress associated with it - since I had to *do* something. It wasn't passive fun, and it really did exhaust me - the first few classes, I literally came home afterwards and just crashed, fell right asleep!

Is this an ongoing class, or does it have an end date? It might be easier to do if you know it's limited, like 6 weeks? Do you feel like you need the class, or could you drop that... and just get time there to do your thing when you feel like, so it's not so rigidly scheduled? Or... you mentioned wanting to do lots of outdoor stuff this time of year, maybe pottery is just a winter hobby? You can always come back to it when the weather gets too cold for hiking and kayaking...

I kind of wonder... is it really just the job sucking up your energy? That's sort of how I feel... it seems like if you're in a bad work environment, that you'd really need a great hobby to help counteract that in your free time, but I think the truth is that, if you're in a bad work environment, it wears you out so much that it's hard to have the extra energy to enjoy a great hobby ! It's really unfair!

I'm having a hard time not checking the emails. The reality is that they need someone full time and they need occasional night and weekend coverage. My problem is that I don't want to be full time and I don't want to work off hours.. but I also want to keep this work for a while longer, so I don't want to tell them 'Hey, you need to hire someone full time and I'm not interested.'

I need to focus on finding new clients or going back to my software projects. I need to stop looking at their stuff when I am not working. Just kind of reminding myself...

Also, I know my boss does not expect me to do more work than I can, but some people don't seem to understand that I am not full time. I also am pretty annoyed about having everyone treat me like some sort of helpdesk person- which is the role I'm stuck with at this place.

There are more or less three divisions. One division is full of friendly people. The other two are full of the kinds of people who think anyone who doesn't have their job is a moron... people who want me to fix the printer which turns out to have an empty paper tray...

I am *really* noticing how hard it is to be female in a male dominated industry. I watched a female cardiologist get bossed around by a patient who couldn't unmute his TV last week. I feel like some of the people I work around think of me as 'less than.' And I kind of chuckle to myself because there are some extremely self important people who call themselves 'software developers' at this place, but what they are doing bears very little resemblance to what anyone in the software industry would call development.

My father, like yours, isn't mean on purpose. He's just incapable of thinking about anyone's needs beyond his own - and he can't really cope with those at this point. According to him he is depressed (it goes beyond depressed, imo). He used to be somewhat functional but he just seems to get more crazy and less functional every year. He just can't cope with life. Really, I look at both of my parents and have grave worries about my own future!

Do any of your siblings have kids? None of us do and I can guess why!

I'm not sure how you wrap up therapy goals into SMART goals, but maybe your therapist knows. He *has* to have a way of measuring success. And what *does* a 'better sense of self' look like? What if you already have that and don't even know it?! How will you know when you're there?

I am probably going to do the pottery class again. I really enjoy a lot of the people there (and it could be a source of future work). I am just at this point where I am trying to cram 70 hours worth of stuff into 40 hours worth of time and sooner or later I need to come to grips with the fact that it won't work. No one can do everything. This is really hard for me to grasp, I guess.

I think you are right about bad jobs being draining. Who has the mental space for anything interesting when we're dealing with annoying people and situations all day?

That's a really rough position to be in, in my opinion (the company needing more support than you can give, and some people thinking that you're full-time). I'm imagining that it would feel like... constant pressure to do more, even if your boss does understand that you are part-time and can't get to everything. I think it's even harder when you're a smart person, and you know what needs to be done, and how to do it right - because it's REALLY hard to just let stuff go undone, or to do things quickly (and less thoroughly). That's my experience, anyway. So, I'm sorry that you're in that position - and that being a part-time consultant isn't making things better!

Are you and your boss in agreement about your priorities? Making those explicit could help a bit, I imagine, with letting some stuff go?

And, I'd be so tempted to put an out-of-office auto-response on my email on days that I'm not working. "I'm currently available M, W, and F from 8-6. I will respond to your email as soon as I return to the office. Thanks!" to help people understand!

And, ugh to the morons who think that anyone who isn't working in the same field is an idiot. Talk about immature. And calling you to fix a printer that's out of paper... I think I'd make them stand there and listen to a (very nice, polite) lecture on how to check and refill the paper tray. I can just imagine it now, "see... this icon here... on the display? Are you able to see that OK? Yes, great! Now, that icon means there's no paper... do you want to take a picture with your phone, in case you forget what it looks like? No, are you sure? OK... so when that picture comes up, or really ANY TIME THIS TRAY RIGHT HERE IS EMPTY!!! - all you have to do is... "

What a pain. Maybe you need to get all business-y on them and tell your boss you want to "EMPOWER" people by making sure they all know how to refill the printer paper!

I wonder what these people do at home? Do they not ever use printers at home?

And, wow, that's crazy about the cardiologist. And, it sucks. I *hate* that it's an issue we even have to talk about or notice. It so should not be one, at all. Did I tell you my graduation story? My one really noticeable bad moment of being female in a male industry - my undergrad degree is in Computer Science, and I graduated with highest honors. That quarter, there were only 3 CS folks who had highest honors, 2 females and 1 male. The male didn't show up at graduation. As we were getting lined up, someone came by and reminded us to line up by honors first... so me and this other woman were first in line.

The professor responsible for keeping us lined up came by, looked at me and this other woman at the front, and said something like... "Oh, are they giving you pink diplomas too?"

I *wish* I would have had the guts back then to say something, but I was honestly really infuriated, and hurt. It was just such a tacky thing to say, and he really didn't put any thought into it at all. And people don't get that - I told a friend later, who was a grad student studying with this guy - and my friend said, "Oh, but he's not sexist at all". Ugh. Maybe not to you (another male!) but that was really not an OK thing to say - at graduation, no less!

re: Family stuff - OMG that's too funny, no, NONE of us are married or have kids of our own! My brother was briefly married, but had a violent outburst and ended up back on drugs, and was quickly divorced. (Really sad, his wife was an incredibly sweet, kind woman that would have been great for him.) My sis has a live-in boyfriend that she's been with for more than 10 years, but he doesn't work at all. He used to, he got laid off, and he just.... gave up, I guess. He's not really... all there either. He's very much into conspiracy theories, and used to smoke a lot of pot, and I think his brain is just not in good shape.

My mom desperately wanted grand-kids (I'm not sure why, since she ignored the kids she had for most of our childhood!) - and asked me once if she thought my sister and this guy were going to have kids! I said, "Wow! Do you really want him as the father of your grandkids?" Sigh. I hate being so judgy, and he's a nice enough person, but just... no.... Anyway, my sister isn't really into the idea of kids, so no worries.

And I haven't really dated since college and have zero interest in having kids. And am quickly approaching an age where that won't be a problem.

Yeah, when I look at that, I think "you know that your parents really screwed up when ALL of their children grow up and refuse to marry and have kids of their own." It just seems... not normal. But at least on our side, nothing in our family IS normal.

It's really funny to hear that you've got the same dynamic going on in your family too. (Sad too, sorry.) I sort of hate thinking about it, because I can totally see how if my family had been different, if my parents had actually been parents, how I might have grown up, fallen in love, settled down, and had kids... and maybe even liked it. But, it just hasn't been something I could even consider for so long.

Yeah, regarding the squishing 70 hours into 40. It doesn't work unfortunately! But it sounds like the pottery class is something you might be able to take a break from when you want to focus on other things, and then come back to periodically. Not an all-or-nothing thing?

Thanks for the thoughts on goals... I genuinely am not sure with therapy. It's like, "feeling better". Sure, there are ways one could quantify it - but sometimes there's not, sometimes it's just a feeling. Maybe like pottery or art? Some goals are clearly quantifiable ("I want to make a plate that does not have bubbles in it, is flat, and is of uniform thickness!") versus... looking at two plates that you've made, neither with any real quantifiable errors, but still finding you like one better than other, for no real reason, just aesthetics. I don't know, it's all fuzzy.

I think if we had a better flow to our conversations, it would help. But, that's not really something either of us can consciously control. And, I tried telling him that I didn't feel like our conversations "blossom" (you know, how when you're talking to someone, and as you talk, you both keeping adding information so that the conversation just sort of explodes in a really great, exciting way?). He said that he thought our conversations DID do that! I don't think I replied at that point, because I was a bit dumbfounded, and was trying to figure out - is it just me being crazy/dissociative and not remembering all these great conversations? Do we just have very different conversational expectations? Is he just nuts? *sigh*

The thing with bad jobs... isn't that kind of amazing and sad to realize. And frustrating. Because it means that if you're stuck in a bad job, not only is your 8-10 hours of work going to be miserable, it really is literally dragging down the rest of your free time too. Oh gosh, that is horrifying. I think I may go ahead and order that book on motivation from Amazon (the one that I told you about awhile ago, that looked at what motivates different people and how to use it to find work that you find fulfilling).

My priorities are pretty explicit. The pressure is not from my boss (my client contact?) but from some of the end users who expect instant responses to problems they've created which cannot be instantly fixed.

I do wonder how some of these people function at home. Not just with printers, but in general. I bet their food gets spit in frequently when they eat out (not kidding- they fit the profile). It turns out that I'm in the middle of a turf war that could make my life pretty difficult. This place has some remote offices that I really don't have any interest in driving to on a regular basis, but the people who have always taken care of things in those places are now refusing to, saying it is my job. I'm foreseeing stuff like spending four hours in the car to swap out a hard drive...

Last week was annoying enough that I decided not to respond to emails during my time off this weekend. I am going to stick with that as best as I can. And your idea about the out of office message is a good one - I hate those, but I'd rather to do that than have to reply to someone who forgot to cc: anyone else when they are dead in the water.

It sounds lucky that your sister isn't into kids! I know someone who sounds a lot like her boyfriend. He's actually a pretty good father and house husband, aside from the drinking. I've often wondered why his wife puts up with it- she doesn't really make enough money to cover all their bills.

It's funny that we are both part of a trio where everyone opted for no kids. My BF's family was also pretty bad, but with less chaos. His two siblings have kids, he doesn't. When we met, he said he wanted them, but he's since changed his mind. I am 95% on the 'no kids' side of things, so that is fine with me. I always got the feeling that he wanted kids just *because* he thought it was normal.

I could take a break from the pottery class and am still contemplating that option. I'm so torn. I like the social aspect of it. I like the things I am working on - having three hours a week scheduled to work on them would probably be good.

On the other hand, the idea of a day where I have nothing scheduled is really appealing to me - but why should I let being drained from a crappy job interfere with the rest of my life?! You are right, it is so annoying!

It does seem hard to make therapy goals... but I still think it's possible to at least have some. I mean, what does happy or content look like? Maybe it's having enough energy to do fun stuff. Feeling good enough to start work on a long dreamed about project. Making new friends?

If I were looking at two plates and liked one more than the other, with enough time and consideration, I could probably articulate the differences. And even if I couldn't do it that easily, I would expect someone with a degree and experience to have some good ideas about it. If my pottery teacher couldn't tell me why one plate was more appealing than another, I'd wonder just how much she really knew...

It's interesting that you both have such different opinions of your conversations. I don't see how you would 'forget' something like that, so either he is nuts or you guys have really different expectations. Have you gotten anything out of this engagement so far?

Wow, the people you're dealing with sound pretty awful. I'm glad that you and your boss are on the same page regarding your priorities. I think this might just be one of those situations where they can complain all they want, if it's not your job, and not your hours, you don't owe them anything. Spending four hours in the car to swap out a hard drive is just *ridiculous*, seriously. If they have that many problems, they need an on-site IT person handling those issues. Ugh, I'm sorry, that just sounds like such a mess. I'm not sure how you're dealing with those people, I'd give them a very polite, but clear, explanation of my job priorities and make sure they understand that I'm not there to support them. Nicely, of course.

It does sound like they're desperate for some IT support. Maybe your company should start hiring contractors, and you can oversee them and sell their labor to this company? Probably not the business you want to be in, but I always thought it must be nice to be the person providing contractors, since they apparently get nearly as much money as the contractors themselves!

Good for you for not responding to work emails last weekend! You deserve that, you negotiated times that work for you, you deserve to have your free time be truly free, so you can unwind and work on your many other pursuits!

It is funny that we're both in grandkid-free-families . My mom was really upset about it for awhile, but I guess she's given up. I never wanted kids, but as I get older, I am a little sad. It's not sadness about not having kids though (I think) but more sadness that the way I was raised screwed things up for me so badly, that not wanting kids seems inevitable. I think if my family had been different, if I had fallen in love, etc... I could have been someone with kids, and would have been a great mom. But that just wasn't my reality. Oh well.

Is your pottery class just one night a week, or is it 3 hours over a couple days? Do you not have any other days with nothing scheduled? That would be hard for me to take too... definitely need a little unstructured time to relax and not feel like there's someplace you have to be. It sounds like a tough decision (I hate those, when it's not so clear cut what would be best!) but take heart - it seems like one that's easy to change later (i.e. if you don't quit now, you can still quit later. If you quit now and miss it, you can pick it back up later.)

I don't know with therapy, it's weird. I just realized that I used to feel pretty good after talking to him (but I'd feel worse, more scared and anxious, as the week went on). But now, I feel lousy after talking to him (and feel a little better, maybe, as the week goes on.) I'm not sure if I'm getting much out of it right now, but I also feel like part of that is *me*, my defensiveness and inability to really *do* therapy. But, I really want my life to be better... I don't know. I've got an appointment in a few hours, so I'm trying to figure out what to talk about today. He told me once that if I keep talking about therapy (in therapy) instead of my "real life", it would be a bit too "meta" and not useful, so I wonder if I'm falling into that trap.

Ugh, I don't know... I'm not feeling very clear today. I've been sick feeling all weekend, then last night I was absolutely miserable. Really felt bad and was too dizzy to stand up. Not good, didn't get to sleep until after 3:30.. still light-headed today, took the day off as a sick day because my brain is just not functioning...

I hope you feel better!! Not being able to sleep because you feel like crap is horrible

The 'consulting' I'm doing is pretty bad. It's like I've gone back in time to my early-20s at an entry level job. These people want help desk. It's all responsive, not strategic. The sort of snide comments about my part-time status are getting pretty annoying, too. The CEO came up to me and said 'you're not in tomorrow, are you?'
'No, I'll be in the day after. Is there something you need?'
'Well, tomorrow would have been a good day to set up X.'
'X hasn't landed yet.'
'Yeah, well tomorrow would have been a good day.'

What am I supposed to make of that? You want me to set up something that's not here on a day I don't work? Am I missing something? I think I tend to read a lot of bad intentions in stuff like this, instead of just careless thinking.

Hiring contractors is a thought, but this is so not the business I want to be in. This particular company would not go for that, anyway. It figures, too, that they can go for eight years with no IT person at all, and having a part-time person for 3 months is just too annoying. Give me a break, really.

I'm also struggling with this on a personal level because in the past, I would burn myself out by working as long as I had to in order to get things done. When people nag me about whether or not something is done yet, I already feel bad about not having done it.

Sometimes I feel like my life is just one set of frustrating social encounters after another. It really has to be me. I am not sure if it's the way I interpret things or how I project or what, but it's like everyone annoys me. More volunteer project annoyances, more conflict with my BF.

Neither of my parents have mentioned grandkids. I think they were both happy that none of us had kids while we were still living at home. My mother actually said at one point that her life would have been much better if she had not met my father and had kids at a young age!

I'm not sure if this information would be useful for your situation, but you might be interested in reading some of the research into regret, specifically omission regret. As we get older, we tend to regret the things we didn't do, the opportunities we passed up, more than we regret the things we actually did. It makes sense in a lot of ways - as we are just getting started with choosing how to live our lives, the stack of things we didn't do isn't that big. There's always time to do it later. When we start to run out of time and we start to make this choice instead of that, that stack of missed opportunities just keeps on growing.

My class is just one afternoon a week. I did sign up again. I was so tempted not to, but it's actually one of the few social things I do where I want to get to know the people better. It's sort of like being a regular at a neighborhood bar. I also wonder why I would quit my class before I would quit some of the seriously aggravating volunteer projects or fooling around online. There's so many places I could trim some fat - why am I picking something that's actually a pretty good thing?

Your therapist has a good point that if you are spending your mental energy and time wondering whether or not therapy is right, it's not really going to be as helpful as it could be. I find myself doing that kind of thing frequently, where I spend a lot of time trying to decide whether or not I should do X, way more time than I would actually spend just *doing* X.

I've been sort of trying to stop myself from doing that by committing temporarily. I am not sure if the approach works or not, but I feel like I might get more done this way, by committing to do X for two months and then re-evaluating. Sometimes the re-evaluating doesn't actually happen, sometimes the right decision becomes very clear a month in. I just don't want to think about it, you know?

I also look for the exit. Like with the pottery - I can eat the money I paid for the class and quit if I want. If I don't want to work for these people, I can quit. You can quit your therapy anytime you want. Does reminding yourself of that help at all? It does for me, but I am not sure why.

Thanks, I'm getting better. I still have some weird things going on, but it's better... Ugh. Health, food, sleep, exercise... these things just seem so hard to juggle with all the normal life stuff. It shouldn't be so hard! (Sorry, I may be a little whiny at the moment!)

Oh wow. Geez, I wouldn't know what to say to the CEO either. Clearly, you're not going to be installing something on your day off, and certainly not something that's not even here. If he weren't the CEO, I'd be tempted to say something a little snarky, but that probably doesn't fly with a CEO. I'm sorry... ugh. Can you write it off as he's probably frustrated, and it's not really your fault? Maybe kind of like what you said about your mom... you need to ignore his unrealistic and hints about how things should be done, and just do what a normal person would do - which is wait for the equipment to come in, and install it on a day that you're scheduled to be working?

Once again, I'm glad you're not actually a full-time employee having to deal with this guy. *shudder*.

I really do relate to burning yourself out trying to make sure something gets done (and done well). It's hard to step away from the guilt... but I think you've already realized that you're only hurting yourself when you do that, and that's not really the norm for most people? It's *FANTASTIC* for your boss - because they get somebody willing to work 100-hour weeks and sacrifice any sort of life to get things done perfectly, but it's not good self-care, and it's not good for your happiness or sanity.

I guess the way I'd try to look at it is... they hired you as a part-time person. They agreed to that. That means they said, "yes, this is acceptable. We're 100% on-board with getting 24 hours of service from you each week." So, that's what they get. Sometimes people don't understand what can be realistically done in that time, so in that case, you have to educate them... "Oh, I'd love to get that done this week... but that task will take at least 80 hours. If it's a top priority, I can focus 100% on that and get it done in a month's time?" But, all you do by giving them lots of extra hours is sell yourself short by giving away your time/energy/efforts.

Just my opinion, anyway. I think it's one thing to do it from time to time, in an emergency, for example, to meet a deadline or help someone out. But if you do it all the time, how do you ever have anything left over for yourself, or your relationship? And, especially with a job like this (where the company is completely nuts and the work isn't particularly fulfilling) - you're giving away your life for something that's not really that important or wonderful.

It reminds me of something I read in a novel once. The character was talking about how... whatever we do with our time, that's essentially the thing that we "die for". And lamenting how many people die so that some corporation can make a few extra million dollars, rather than dying for a meaningful cause.

"...it's like everyone annoys me" - is it possible that you haven't met the right people yet? Also... do you think it has to do with IQ? I'm betting your on the higher end of the bell curve - could it be that you need other fairly intelligent people to get along well with, and the folks you're meeting are just not there?

And... OMG! I wonder if our moms are related too . That was an awful thing for your mom to say, about her life being better had she not met your dad... and I'm pretty sure my mom said almost the same thing to my sister at some point. Ah, I can feel the warm rays of love just prickling out from the both of them!

I'm glad you're signing up for your class again, I like your analogy of the neighborhood bar. And, it makes tons of sense that you should think about quitting one of the more annoying, less fun activities first if you want to make more time. Much better plan!

Thanks for the info on omission regret. And the ideas about therapy. I did go this week and actually tell him I want to try to start talking about my past and family, which I think may be helpful. We'll see. Oh, yup, it helps a lot to know I can quit if I want to!

Happy Friday. Another week done! Hope you get to enjoy the weekend!

I hear you on it being hard to fit in all the daily living type stuff when we are in the middle of living! The weather finally turned nice enough for me to spend a day in the garden. I got a great workout and a sunburn Life under florescent lights doesn't seem healthy at all...

Thank you for the reminders that I am contracted to work a limited amount of time. I think it feels weird because *I* was the one who insisted on part-time and maybe a bit under false pretenses. I do bill them for anything I do outside of those hours, although not for email read in five minute bursts. I really *have to* focus on my other stuff. This is a nice way to get pocket change, not what I want to do with my life.

With regard to everyone annoying me... maybe it's an introvert thing? I mentioned it to a friend who is even more introverted than I am and she seemed to be very familiar with the feeling, lol. I *like* a lot of the people I find annoying - I just find interacting with them incredibly frustrating at times.

Re: mothers. Did I tell you about my BF's mother's latest idea? She wants to rent a house for her wedding anniversary and have all the kids come and visit. One kid won't speak to either parent, another kid only speaks to the mother, one kid isn't speaking to another, all kids wish their parents were divorced, etc etc. But all the kids are going and all will stay in the same house in the middle of nowhere!!! Count me out!

Did your mother make her visit yet? I hope you don't have to look forward to it for too long. I'm looking at having to see my mother every single week this month and it's bumming me out.

I had some kind of weird epiphany when I woke up this morning about how I could start living my life in a more goal focused way... and completely lost the thread in the hour and a half I've been up.

The gardening sounds great! I wish I had space to try to grow something outside. I think I might try to grow some ginger in a pot... supposedly it doesn't need full sun, which is good, because my house is pretty dark and depressing.

Your BF's mom... oh wow. Just... no. I remember your other thread about spending the holidays with them (and your BF volunteering you to cook!). That house in the middle of nowhere sounds like such a recipe for disaster... or the makings of a new reality TV show!

My mom hasn't visited yet, she's off traveling at the moment. She's planning to be here in mid-July. So, I've got some time . Why are you going to be seeing your mom every week? That seems like A LOT. Are you helping her out with something? Either way, I'm sorry... that sounds stressful

Doesn't that just figure that you'd get a great idea first thing in the morning, and that it would slip away! I hate when that happens! Have you tried just sitting or laying down and relaxing, and sort of poking at the edges of the idea to see if anything comes up? You know, thinking about the things you do remember - even if it's just "how might I live a more goal-oriented life? What would that look like?" Maybe your unconscious will help you out with this one?

re: People being annoying... it could be an introvert thing. Or a depression thing (not sure if you're depressed, I think irritability can go up with mild depression?) Or a high-IQ thing. Or a bad match thing. Is it really *all* people? Are there any people that you talk to in real life that don't annoy you?

Or maybe, people are just by their nature annoying. I'm thinking of my favorite people, and even they can be mildly annoying on rare occasions. Maybe people who are extroverts spend so much more time dealing with people that they don't notice the little annoyances? I don't know...

I managed to get myself out to a board-games meetup last night. It was fun, but a bit too much socializing, I think, because I'm still worn out. Really tired. Though, I did actually win a game! I've been ~3 times, and it was the first time I've won...so I may have jumped up a little tiny bit and cheered!

Ooooh, I want to know how your ginger works out! Are you going to grow the Chinese one or the North American one? A lot of herbs in the mint family don't need full sun, if you are a tea drinker!

I'm seeing my mother constantly because there's some reason to celebrate or get together every single week. Birthdays, graduations, mother's day, family visiting.

I also did something dumb. Last year I went to a food conference and had a nice chat with some stranger at lunch. Afterwards, I walked by the bookstore and saw his picture all over a bunch of books - the guy is a celebrity in his field (not the tv show kind).

I had mentioned this in passing to my mother months ago, who started shrieking about how he was her favorite, etc etc. I saw that he was going to give the keynote at this year's event, so I forwarded her the email.

Why did I do that? Now she may register for this event and follow me around. I haven't told her that I am going and guess I won't. I felt like it would be wrong to withhold the information, but now I feel like I shot myself in the foot.
I never recaptured my idea about how to live a more goal oriented life, but I *did* read an article that is sort of helping. It was about the ten minute diet, with the idea that you spend ten minutes a day making choices that support losing weight. Before choosing something, ask yourself 'does this support my goal of X?' I've been playing with that, when I remember.

With people being annoying, it's like I feel like my day is made up of aggravating interactions. I think this is probably *why* I tend to keep to myself. I find other people frustrating to deal with. I suppose it's not really *all* my interactions, but it feels that way! It's not just them annoying me, either - I know that I annoy other people. I get irritated that it's so hard to communicate, I guess. I get hung up for a really long time on little things.

For instance, I have a volunteer issue going on in one of my groups. One woman keeps sending out these emails 'OMG, we have to get X done, let's meet.' 1. No one else wants to meet 2. The last time we met, we spent the meeting entirely redoing something we had already done and had approved - and the end result was that no one ever finished the rework and it was not approved.

Last week I designed some promotional materials, sent them out for feedback, and heard nothing. I had even tried calling this woman to talk about the stuff and she never called me back.

So when I saw her email about meeting this time, I was even more annoyed than usual. And it still took me 40 minutes to draft a one sentence response saying that I couldn't meet!

Interestingly, someone else replied with a long email about how there was no reason to meet and we should just break down what had to be done and do it. And I'm all in favor of that! But I spent another hour responding to that and never came up with something I could send! (I am worried about getting stuck with all the work and/or getting stuck in a situation where I can't move forward because someone else doesn't return calls/emails).

So sometimes it feels like my day is made up of stuff like this, situations where I feel stuck and annoyed and get myself tied up in knots about the best way to proceed.

Congrats on the board game win, btw. Jumping up and down a little is certainly in order

Oh wow, I didn't even look at different *types* of ginger. I was just going to grab some healthy looking ginger root from Whole Foods, plunk it in some dirt, and hope for the best . Did I mention, I don't do much gardening?

Thanks for the tip about mint! I love mint... that could be really fun to try too!

Sorry that you're having to see so much of your mom lately. That would drive me nuts. My mom is actually traveling, out of the country, so I'm getting by with just an email for M-day!

That would be hard for me too, having my mom show up an event. Didn't you go through something similar last year? I seem to remember something posted on the forums, maybe you invited your mom for an afternoon, but she wanted to stay for the whole weekend? I'm probably getting it confused with something else.

I think that it's a bit early to start worrying, you'll just cause yourself stress. You forwarded her the email... did she say anything? I think if she doesn't reply at all, you don't need to say anything else about it. The ball is sort of in her court, and if she doesn't reply, and she ends up finding out that you went, you can just honestly say, "Oh, I didn't think you were interested, you didn't reply when I sent the email."

Maybe she won't reply!

But I know, it's frustrating. I have those moments too, where I say something to someone, then realize that this is the last person I should have shared with. Sometimes I just get swept up in the conversation, and don't realize until later that I didn't want to share something (or commit to something!)

So... are the annoying interactions actually annoying while they're happening? Like, you're uncomfortable and annoyed when you're talking to people? Or is it just when you're trying to craft a reply? I sometimes spend too long on replies too... I just did that with something from my boss last week. He sent out a (frustrating) email asking for help with something that he had just emailed us about a couple months ago. Someone had tracked down the info for him then. And, I assume he deleted it and forgot about it, and is completely unable to actually use our intranet to search for anything himself . I had the old email, so I replied to everyone (to make sure no one else wasted time looking for it), but I wanted to give credit to the person who found it last time... but I did NOT want to sound like I was chastising my boss for not keeping it (though I'd like to!). So I got a little stuck trying to say, "here's what you asked for. This is what so-and-so sent out a few months ago." Bah.

I don't know, I guess for stuff like that I've come to realize that it's more important to ME than the person receiving it, usually. My boss really very rarely cares. I put a million times more thought into the words I use than he ever does when reading them (or replying, for that matter). So, when I catch myself doing that, I try to back up and just say what I need to, and not overwrite it.

Do you realize what's happening when you do it? Or do you just get into trying to get it right, and then realize you've wasted an hour and still haven't sent anything? Maybe realizing it in real time is a first step?

Although, I have to say, I would be SO incredibly annoyed at that woman you're dealing with, the one who didn't bother replying to you, but is now trying to schedule meetings. I'd be very tempted to resend the email, but cc the whole team! That's probably uncalled for though at this point. I'd probably email her again, and try to assume she didn't get the first one (either it got lost, or she meant to reply and it got buried). I'd still be upset though, it really sucks when you can't get your work done because somebody else can't be bothered to reply! That's just rude on her part!

Oh, and with the long email that came through about why you shouldn't actually meet... I've seen people reply to things like that with a simple "Agree." and that's it. Especially if it was all explained clearly, no need to be fancy and re-explain it all, it just lets everyone know where you stand and supports the original emailer.

It does sound stressful to deal with all that stuff. Did you ever get any kind of response to the promotional materials you designed?! And, is this the group you were going to try to step back and act non-committed, like everyone else on the board?

Thanks for the congrats, the board game group has been pretty fun. A little stressful to get everything done around the house before I go (it's Sunday evenings, 2x/month), but fun. I'm glad that it's only twice a month! Enough to meet regularly, but not feel like it's taking up every weekend!

And, ugh. It's so hot feeling here. Almost 90. I was out trying to do errands, and just feel totally drained. I need to move somewhere cooler! I'm really over living in the South!

Hope you got to do something fun this weekend!

Buying ginger from a store and sticking it in dirt should work! I bought some Jerusalem artichokes from a co-op and stuck them in the ground this year - and the seeds from dried chilies sometimes sprout as well. It's fun to go seed shopping at the grocery store.

I did have something similar with an event and my mother last year. I thought she'd go for one day and she went for the whole weekend - AND she followed me around in a weird kind of way. You're right, though, no sense in worrying about it now. I won't bring this event up again and hopefully she will just forget about it.

My annoying interactions are annoying when they're happening. And I feel like my reactions are overblown. I wish I was more 'meh' about stuff instead of getting wound up. What you described with the info from the intranet - that sounds like something I would do, too. In the hour I took drafting the email that someone else would have sent the solution in the meantime!

The volunteer stuff - I really need to figure out how to manage it better. I am starting to think that the woman-who-always-wants-to-meet doesn't like me on a personal level. That situation wound up getting even more annoying. I asked the CEO for clarification on what was expected of the committee and sent a note to the committee suggesting we wait to hear back from the CEO... which prompted someone else to send an email to a secretary at the organization telling her that we would be doing X or Y based on the secretary's preference. Huh???

And this isn't that other group! I am just going to quit that one - they wound up scheduling the event I was looking forward to at a time I couldn't make it. I'm stepping away from a few groups, actually. The aggravation is just not worth it. I had a final straw moment last weekend that made up my mind for me. I work with a few groups that make it easy and fun to work for them. Those are the ones I'll stick with.

Whatever happened with your boss and the note-taking?

I think the thing that gets me with stuff like the intranet email you describe and so many of the situations I find myself in is that most people probably just don't care. Your boss isn't going to notice if you are careful about wording something in a particular way. The only person who might is the one who initially provided the info. So why do people like us worry about these things that are more like minor details to other people?

Cool, re: growing seeds from store-bought veggies! I once grew some bell pepper plants on a balcony from seeds from an actual bell pepper too. It was really neat, but I felt so sad and guilty when I ended up having to toss the plants to move .

Do they actually sell dirt in anything smaller than those crazy huge bags? I don't need *that* much, and don't want to lug it all home if I don't need it!

So, your mom DID follow you around last time. I wasn't able to remember exactly how it turned out - sorry, that sucks. Hopefully she forgets. It's a real pain having to remember to self-edit stuff like this when talking to your mom.

re: The irritation, you say that you feel like your reactions are overblown. Do you think there could be a reason? I don't know what... I'm just guessing. Something you said before made me think about how, part of why I spend so much time being so careful when I respond is... I'm *sure* I've had crazy people in my life, and specifically in my family I'm guessing, over-react to minor stuff. I'm guessing that made me cautious. I'm thinking that as we're growing up, the people in our family act like representatives of humans in general, and we "learn" that that's how most people behave. Having someone who is crazy and jumps down your throat (or misunderstands stuff all the time) might teach you that it's really important to be extremely clear and cautious in communication, so that you reduce or eliminate the chances of misunderstanding. I don't know, just a weird thought... it feels right for me, but I can't really see who/when/how it all came about.

Another thought - do you think you could be depressed at all? I *think* irritability can be a sign of depression, though I'm not sure I'm remembering that correctly. Something to think about, anyway.

Oh my gosh - what the heck happened with the secretary? That sounds so confusing? How on earth did, "we need to wait to hear back from the CEO" turn in to, "Hey, secretary, we'll do whatever you want, just let us know!" ? Do you have any idea how that happened? Talk about crazy! Did you reply at all? I think I'd have to nip that in the bud with a mass email, including the committee, the CEO, and the secretary saying that there was a miscommunication, and that you're waiting to hear from the CEO before taking action. Stuff like that is definitely crazy-making though... yikes! They all sound sort of insane!

Yay! I'm glad to hear you're going to escape from some of these crazy, stressful, unfun groups! That's really good news!

The note-taking. Oy. Yup, we had the meetings. I attended via telephone. It wasn't great, as people insisted on having side conversations, and the phone system would pick that up and mute out the main conversation! And the did a "working lunch" at one point, and all I could hear was food wrappers by the microphones being crunched and rustled, drowning out any conversation.

But, I took tons of notes. And, I rolled the notes up into high-level power-points for our team. Not a great roll-up, because everything has been very rushed, as we've got 2 of these projects going in tandem. And, we've been meeting and brainstorming and putting together concepts.

Meh. It all feels kind of... I'm trying to think of a nicer way to say it, but half-a**ed. And, the graphic folks are really the stars here for putting together snazzy concept renderings. I feel like a secretary, or maybe a project manager, arranging meetings and reserving conference rooms and taking notes.

It sucks. Incredibly depressing, though I guess it's marginally better than doing nothing. But, so not fun. And, *this* is the direction our group is going, so I really do need to figure something out. And I'm just so slow to change. I really, really wish the other group had decided to bring me on (especially as my group now reports up into that groups VP, so we're actually more closely related than we were!). But, I never did hear anything else from them. It drives me crazy not knowing if they just hated my work samples, I keep going back to that!!!

And, it's been rough here this week anyway. I finally thought that, after nearly 11 months with this therapist, it's clearly not working (and super expensive), so I figured I should quit. So, I went in and told him... and we talked and talked and talked (and he was actually really good, no pressure to stay or anything). And, I nearly cried but shut down instead. It sucks, because I like him and am attached enough to feel bad, plus he knows more of my history than any other therapist, and has really tried to be helpful (lots of crappy therapy experiences in my past). In the end, I told him I think I want to try a little more, maybe, and maybe try every other week again to save some money rather than weekly. At least that takes some of the financial pressure off! But I don't know, I really feel like I've lost faith in therapy as a treatment modality, you know? I just don't know what WOULD help. I feel like my entire life consists of me banging my head repeatedly against a wall, and I just can't figure out where the door is!

Oh wow. And I'm just realizing, it's only Wednesday night. Which means all this stuff with my therapist was only yesterday! I have a really crappy sense of time, so stuff gets distorted, and it feels like it's much farther away. Ugh. Which means trying to go 2 weeks between sessions is going to feel *crazy long*. I think I should have just kept my big mouth shut. Why can't it be easy (or easier, at least)?

LOL, my biggest gardening problem is that I find it very difficult to kill anything, to the extent that deadheading is hard for me! I *had* to do it at a public garden I was taking care of. Seeing the difference was eye opening. Sometimes a little killing is in order

You can find dirt in pretty small bag. Any Walmart or Walmart like store would have it. You may be able to talk a garden shop into selling you just enough to fill a pot or two, especially if you buy your pots from them.

Your insight that growing up having to closely self-monitor in order to avoid triggering bad reactions in other people is pretty interesting. I sometimes feel like I hyper-interpret or analyze other people's actions and behaviors. I can see that this was probably an important part of dealing with my parents as a kid.

I've observed that my mother has a sometimes crazy way of interpreting her interactions with people. If she is displeased with an outcome, she takes it very personally, even though it is not personal at all. It's a sort of paranoid world view. I worry that I have aspects of that, too. And, yeah, maybe I'm depressed. I think I'm just permanently that way, sometimes a bit worse than others.

The CEO nipped the secretary communication in the bud! And yesterday I officially resigned from that other board, the one with the extremely rude person who took over my project. No response at all from the president, so I made the right choice.

Ugh, your work situation ... I guess it is better than it was since you have something to do, but taking notes during conference calls, booking conference rooms, and making power points sounds extremely tedious. I don't think your samples had anything to do with you not getting brought on board by that other team, btw - all those people going out on leave at the same time has to be the reason. That team doesn't sound 100% functional either, recruiting you and then dropping the ball like that.

If it *was* the work sample, they have no reason not to just flat out *tell* you.

I think if you have put 11 months into weekly therapy and you haven't seen the results you wanted, it's a great idea to take a step back. For what you pay in therapy for three months, you could probably take a pretty nice trip! Or sign up for a class - it's enough money to do something nice that might actually improve your life more than therapy does, even if the improvement is just some extra sparkles for a few weeks or hours...

Ooh, good to hear that they do sell smaller bags of dirt, thanks for the tip. I should have gone out and looked this weekend, but I also need a pot, and the ginger, and to read up online and make sure ginger doesn't need anything special from me. And... you know... I have no energy these days, so that sounds like a whole lot of work to me, sadly!

But it is super cool to watch things grow, and having a little ginger plant in my office might bring some cheerfulness (and cleaner air!). So I should really do it.

The way your mom personalizes things sounds almost a bit narcissistic, maybe? Maybe it's the idea that people are making decisions specifically to hurt her, as opposed to not really basing their lives around her, which is more likely

That's funny (and good) that the CEO stepped in and took care of the issue with the secretary. Good for him/her! And, good for you, for dumping some of the more stressful and un-fun boards! I kind of think that life's just too short for stuff like that, where you aren't enjoying it and aren't feeling appreciated at all. Not worth it.

Hmmm interesting thought that they would have just told me. Do you really think that? I thought they might be reluctant to say anything, since I was being referred by a friend, and maybe they didn't want to offend her, or me? But maybe you're right, it would have been pretty easy to say, "Oh, we looked at her work... it wasn't really what we were expecting. It seems like her skills aren't going to be a good match for us." Maybe it is just disorganization.

Yeah, the stuff I'm doing now is pretty tedious. It's really frustrating to get praised for doing a great PowerPoint presentation when I know I can actually do real work.

You're absolutely right about therapy, the costs, and doing something fun. But, after I told him I wanted to take a break - I spent days crying and ended up emailing him to go back next week. Ugh. It makes me feel more crazy.

Speaking of boards... we're actually having our once a year condo meeting this week on Tuesday! I didn't think I was going to be able to make it, but a bunch of stuff has shifted in my schedule, so I will make it. They're raising our fees *again* this year. I really want to push them on this, it feels like the board doesn't care at all about the HOA fee. It just goes up and up and up. It's now over $300/m (!!!) - (I don't remember exactly, but when I moved in 7 years ago it was ~$240 or so, I think.)

It just seems ridiculous, and like it's going to bring down the values of our properties even more (harder to sell when there's a high monthly fee attached forever.) I'm really disappointed in them but I'm not sure how to bring it up in a way that will be *effective*?

Hope you enjoyed the weekend! I tried to use spray foam for the first time! I hope that some of it actually stuck to the wall/pipe... because a lot of it just fell right down to the floor. Ick! It was strangely harder than I expected!

I think my mother has some narcissistic tendencies, but I never tied in the weird paranoia she gets with that. You might be right. I really am not even sure what to call what she does. It's just strange. Something will happen, like a new rule she doesn't like goes into effect, and she starts to passionately hate the person who is implementing the rule.

And half the time, if she just kept her mouth shut, she could keep doing whatever it was she was doing in the first place, but she makes this big, dramatic stink like it's some sort of civil rights fight - and then she has to talk about it *all the time* for *years and years.* This is really very minor stuff, too! I am DONE trying to help her with these problems. It has taken me years to figure out that they are not really problems except in her head!

I really do think that the other group would have told you if your skills were not a good fit. It makes no sense to me that they would want to save your feelings by not saying anything to you - silence is just as hurtful. If they cared about hurting your feelings, they would have said that your skills were great but not what they needed right now. Your company sounds pretty poorly run, so it's not a great leap to make the assumption that this group was just too disorganized to figure out how to hire you.

Your decision to go back to therapy after quitting reminds me of that coin toss decision making trick, where you toss a coin and see what you think of the outcome. You tossed the coin and it turns out you wanted it to land on heads and not tails Sometimes it's easier to figure out what we want by actually moving forward, so I am glad you did! Do you think you will commit to a certain amount of time before you reconsider?

Were you as disappointed with spray foam as I was???? It seemed really useless to me - it over expanded like crazy and oozed all over the place. I wound up tossing the can and returning the second one I had bought.

Good luck with the condo board meeting if you decide to go! Have you ever read condo-line in the Miami Herald? I love reading that one and the NYT real estate advice column

Wow, I really don't want to go into the office today.

I hope your day is going better than mine. Way too much stress here, which is causing me to eat too much sugar, and to avoid getting actual work done. Ugh.

I hate to say this, but I think I might be guilty of what your mom does! The thing where you hate people who institute rules that you don't like. I'm having trouble thinking of a good example, but I know that it doesn't take much for me to become passionately hateful at people, sometimes. I hate saying it, but... ack. I don't know where it comes from for me. Maybe a general sense of powerlessness in the world and my life already being pretty crappy?

Thanks for the reassurance about the other job. That's really helpful to know, and makes sense. Maybe that means that at some unexpected moment in the future my name will pop back up for them, though I obviously can't count on that.

I need to figure out something. I was miserable today. Trying to take notes during the "brainstorm", unable to get heard, being constantly talked over and forgotten ("you're next Guilloche.." then forgetting and moving on to someone else), and people having side conversations and not paying attention. Then I had to meet with a bunch of folks afterwards to try to start dividing up work, and I just do not have my head around what we're doing with this, and it was another free-for-all. Such a stressful mess.

And, I get home and already have 2 messages from my brother. He's nice enough about it, but it's the middle of the workday, and I just don't have time to deal with this... he just got out of jail, so this is like the 3rd time he's wanted to talk in about a week. He wants to know what day I sent his stuff to him... Wednesday or Thursday. I'm not sure what the difference is, why that warrants *2* calls in the middle of the work day.

And I've got to go back and face the therapist today. You're absolutely right that it was just like tossing a coin and seeing how you react! Except... my analytical brain is so convinced that I'm just not getting anything out of it. But clearly my emotional brain is attached enough to throw a fit when I try to leave. And it's so expensive. It feels like a crummy place to be, and honestly, I wish I hadn't opened this can of worms. My life was better before therapy, but I can't just rewind and go back to that spot. Ugh. So no clue how today is going to go.

Oh gosh, and yes, the spray foam was incredibly disappointing. Everyone talks about how great it is... but what a pain. I did read the instructions and saw that you're only supposed to fill cracks 50% because it expands, but good luck doing that, especially when you can't see what you're doing since it's way in the back of the cabinet.

And now there's a heap of spray foam back there on the floor, because I never did go and wipe it up! Blah!

I hope your day isn't awful! Have you been able to avoid the crazy CEO much? Did you ever get the stuff installed (that he was telling you "tomorrow, the day you're not here and won't have the equipment, would be perfect!" )

Ugh, your day sounds pretty crappy! Work BS, family BS, and therapy all in one day??? Are you actually in the room or on the phone for this? I can't even imagine trying to do something like that remotely.

I also worry that I am like my mother re: taking things personally when they aren't, but I seriously doubt either of us are doing what she does. I mean, I know I do it to a slight degree, but she's on another level with this stuff.

It would be like if some maintenance guy at your condo told you that you couldn't prop the fire door open anymore because code enforcement had done an inspection and marked this as a hazard. If you were my mother, you would talk about that rotten janitor for the rest of your life - even though all he is doing is passing along a message that's actually pretty reasonable. You would tell your story at every other social function for the next five years, even though there's not really any story to tell.

It's one thing to be annoyed that you can't prop open the fire door anymore, but something else entirely to have a permanent hatred for the janitor because he told you so. I even wonder what this is called - I have not run into anyone who does this *except* my mother.

I can't believe your brother is calling to ask what day you sent stuff. I guess if it isn't there, it will get there when it gets there! OMG.

You aren't the only one who needs to figure something else out. It's awful, dealing with these jobs is so draining that it's really hard to find the energy to work on the back up plan. My situation is NOT good for me and NOT something I want to do for the long term. I've also had some discussions with my friend - there is some writing on the wall that we both see, but no one else seems to.

I guess I should use the situation to practice new skills, like not caring so much... I'm really struggling with confidence issues. I've been dealing with an awful, awful sales rep, so bad that I had to bring in their manager, who is also not very good. I mean, the things they are messing up are *so basic* and there's just *so many things* that they are messing up, like shipping our stuff to the wrong address, not shipping stuff at all, placing orders for the wrong stuff.

So I am seriously annoyed with the rep, but I also worry that I've contributed to the problem by somehow being confusing. I don't *think* that's the case. I don't have this problem with anyone else. I want to switch vendors entirely, but the company refuses to!

The crazy CEO is just a bit crazy. That was definitely an instance where I was taking something personally when I shouldn't have

Yeah, it was a crazy day. It was all in-person stuff for work (ugh). Which should have actually made the brainstorming easier, but it didn't. It was just so hard to focus with people having side conversations (loudly!) and it really pushes a button for me when I feel completely ignored and invisible . So uncomfortable.

Now I have work I'm supposed to be doing, and really just feel like I'm spinning my wheels on. I feel like my brain has turned to mush at this job... so not fun!

Oh, and we just got a message from the new director guy 3 levels up, that we're all expected to be at the "townhall" in person (for someone higher than him) tomorrow. I have no interest in going to this thing. It's always boring, corporate stuff that doesn't mean anything to me, it's like 90 minutes long, and I'd rather just be home. I may have some sort of physical problem tomorrow that prevents me from driving in.

I see what you mean about your mom. That's kind of sad, in a way. I do think that I sometimes can be a tiny bit like that, but maybe not to that extreme. The example of not being able to prop open the fire door does seem like a really minor inconvenience, not something I'd hold on to like that. I guess it sounds sad to me because, for myself, when I've got a lot going on in my life it makes it much easier to let go of the minor stuff. I only really get stuck on minor stuff like that when my life has *nothing* else going on. (The busier you are, the more minor stuff seems not worth worrying about, because there's just not time/space to worry about everything!)

Yeah, my brother. It did get there yesterday, so that's good. I think he's just trying to find himself... he's sober for the first time in a long time, finally out of jail, trying to find a job and get his life together. I don't mind talking to him, but yesterday was just such a stressful day already, and he's called a couple times during the week, usually in the middle of the workday, and it's just a bit too much for me right now. I probably need to proactively call him sometime in the next couple of days to make sure he's doing OK and let him know that me being a little snippy wasn't personal.

I'm so sorry that your job situation sucks too. It really is awful. I hate that jobs *can* provide so many positive things, but when they're bad, they just suck the life out of you and make it harder to do anything fun. Maybe not everybody reacts like this, but to me it feels like being in an abusive relationship - it sort of knocks down your self-esteem, thus making it harder to leave.

Oh gosh! And I was just reading something yesterday about how being in a bad job can be worse for you, psychologically, then being unemployed! I'm not sure I buy that... but it was an interesting thought.

I think using the job that you don't care about (and that has a known end date, right?) to practice skills is a GREAT idea. Especially if you can come up with specific things you want to react differently too, and a concrete plan for what you'll do.

That's absolutely ridiculous that the company won't let switch vendors. Wow. I wonder if they're getting some kind of kickback from using them? That sales rep sounds so completely incompetent, how frustrating. I think it's easy to do what you do - worry that you're somehow contributing (I do this too, a lot!) but it doesn't sound like you are. It sounds like you're fine here, it's just the incompetent sales people. How crazy frustrating! Was the sales guy's boss really no help at all? They can't at least give you a different, hopefully competent, sales guy?

I hope your day got better and that you found some focus. It really *is* hard. How long have you been without enough work to do?

I also wonder how much a company's lack of focus has to do with our inability to focus. Probably not much, really... but I am noticing that my company has the same horrible tendency I have to start a big project and then just drop the ball. Your company also sounds like a disorganized CF sometimes (one day notice for a mandatory meeting???). Working in those conditions is demoralizing.

I would be very tempted to get the date wrong for that awful townhall thing. I hate those, too. On the other hand, maybe it's a chance to run into some people, maybe those people from the other team? I am not sure if you've had the same experience, but I felt like I forgot all my social skills by staying at home and not participating in a lot of structured activities that put me in contact with the same people on a regular basis, or groups of strangers.

The level of dislike I had for any sort of group event grew to levels that became problematic. Maybe it's not so much forgetting social skills, but being really sensitive... anyway, I started going to stuff I wasn't that gung ho about to sort of desensitize myself. Is it possible that the problems you're having with the meetings right now could be in part because you are just out of practice? I *really* noticed that.

That's great that your brother is sober, out of jail, and has his stuff Calling proactively sounds like a good idea. I can't imagine how hard it must be to get sober in jail and then get out and be in the middle of all the temptation again. I imagine it must be isolating. You're not surrounded by people 24/7 anymore and you can't call up your old friends from before.

I don't have a known end date for this job, no. That would actually be better, because uncertainty drives me nuts. That's one skill I am working on - not caring and not worrying about the future of this job! Really, why should I? I don't even like it, so what do I care if something happens to it?

The 'writing on the wall' is not anything like the company going under, more like the parent company starting to strangle the child. This is the first year that the parent 100% owns the child. They've been making changes that work better for the parent than the child, but the CEO is sort of ... uninterested in the details since it's not his company any more.

No one seems to see that the days of freespending without getting approval from the parent are coming to an end. The child has been working with this Wild West mentality where every employee buys whatever they want without supervisory approval, where you create a job for someone's friend and then worry about what they'll do, where you keep people on payroll for six months without work because you like them. It hasn't mattered because there was money to pay. Now the parent takes all the money.

So this dynamic of the parent cracking down and the CEO who doesn't care... it's going to turn into a very different kind of place.

Oh geez. I may have to strangle someone around here.

So, first. The first project with the external client. We presented to the group, but they seem more interested in the logistics of a partnership opportunity than the design work that we're selling (my group does design work, we're not involved in things like business partnerships at all.) So, yesterday after the meeting, my boss calls me up and tells me not to worry, that they're clearly more interested in the partnership stuff and the logistics (costs, timeframe) of the project, and that's not really what we do, so he's going to let them know and our group will be pulled off of this. Great.

Today, we have a touchbase with the business manager (internal to my company) but with people from another company too (not the client, another partner). There was no reminder on the meeting invite, so I emailed my boss... and thought that he said he was coming. I misread the email. He didn't come. So, I'm stuck on the phone with the manager reviewing changes that the potential-client wants us to make the presentation! And he keeps asking for me feedback, and I keep being vague and sounding un-engaged, because all I can think is, what do I say? I don't think I can tell him what my boss told me (about us disengaging), especially not with a handful of other people on the call, some external to the company. ARGH!

So frustrating.

Afterwards, I email my boss to give him the update, and let him know that I'm unsure of how he wants to handle this. No response yet, of course.

In a separate email (because I KNOW if I add it to the first email, he will not see it - he doesn't read past a certain point in emails!!!) I tell him that I can't make it to the townhall in person, because I'm under the weather. Which is basically true, I feel like crap, I'm tired and exhausted and just yucky feeling. Plus, I've got this other project I need to get stuff done for, and am going to take a few days off for Memorial Day, so really need to get this wrapped up.

He sends an email to the whole team asking us to please try to be there, so he doesn't look bad. I'm thinking, "WTF?" This is one of those HUGE meetings where nobody is going to be taking attendance. Personally, I think he should be happy I'm working to get stuff done, and not taking a sick day just before my vacation, and blowing off this other (stressful, chaotic, internal project that he just decided needs to be done faster than I expected.)

Just, what the heck? You know. I'm not even going to reply to that, because I figure I've already let him know. I don't think that skipping an in-person townhall is a fireable offense. I don't think it's even worth a warning, though if my boss or his boss wanted to talk to me about it, I'd tell them that I was sick... would have taken a sick day but had too much work to do.

Ughhhhh. This would probably be a good opportunity to practice breathing, and not letting stuff get to me, right? It's just... the level of stupidity... makes my brain want to explode.

On top of that, my boss forwarded us a note from his boss' assistant from a week ago (!) with information he needs from each of us TODAY. He knew about this a week ago, and ignored it until today. *Hand banging on desk.*

How long have I not had enough to do? Years, with some brief interludes of busy-ness. I've had a couple of really good projects in the last couple years (hmm, I can think of 2). But beyond that, it's literally been years. We used to have a ton of work to do, and we partnered with a lot of groups internally. Then, several years ago, we got re-organized and the guy who was my boss' boss was an evil jerk who hated our group (no, really, he did). That's when the type of work that I had been previously doing just sort of disappeared. My boss kept saying not to worry, he was working on getting us more work, etc... but nothing materialized. I should have left back then! Then, that guy left and we got this new one (maybe a year and a half ago or so?). Things were supposed to be better. Things ARE better for the graphics team, and for my boss, who LOVES the work we're doing now.

It's so frustrating. And, I really hate myself for staying. And, I hate trying to figure out how to get out of this situation. And I hate that I want to stay for the vacation, and the 401k, and the bonus, and the work from home (despite that being a fairly awful thing for my mental health, apparently).

Sorry. Just... wow. And I'm looking at my emails coming in. The request from my boss was for us to send our 2015 accomplishments so far. What we've done this year. I sent these (three... 2 of which are currently in progress!!!) to him privately. Two people though have replied to the entire group, and only sent what they're currently working on, not what they've done for the whole year. Do they just not read? Do they really not understand that he's not asking for a status of what they're currently working on, but accomplishments for the whole year? I feel like it's completely nuts.

And, I still just don't know if it's any better anywhere else!?

Anyway, thanks for listening. And, thanks for the advice about groups. I do understand what you're saying. But this... these townhalls are just SO incredibly awful and boring. I don't get anything out of them, they feel like a huge waste of time. I don't mind calling in to them, so I can half listen while I work and pay attention if anything important comes up, but nothing important ever does. Maybe it's a bad attitude on my part, but the person talking is... I don't know, at least 4-5 levels above me in the company, there's nothing that she can say that's really meaningful to me, you know?

OK, I need to stop, because I'm making my brain spin more... and I really do feel sick and head-achey today, and don't need to run down the road of how awful everything in the world is, which just leads to more hopelessness and despair!

I'm surprised you don't have an end date for the job! For some reason, I thought most contracting or consulting jobs had that built into the contract? That would make me really nervous too, and might make it feel more like a "job" and less like a "consultation"?

I really do like the idea of not worrying about what happens to the job. Just sort of catching yourself when you worry, taking a breath, and letting it go. That might feel really good, to consciously realize you have no need to worry or stress about this, and to just let it go!

That place sounds pretty nuts... it makes sense that the parent company would be trying to get it under control. Wow! No supervisory approval for purchases? Creating jobs for your friends? Yikes!

You know the worst thing about taking a couple days off? Knowing that it doesn't matter. All this stupid irritating stuff will still be there when I come back! It sort of kills the happy feelings!!!