nevermind

So, I really do need to talk/vent a little. Sorry if this comes off a little whiny, but I'm in the middle of a panic attack.

I have a job I really like. I do the things I like to do and I'm good at. I'm the most senior person on the team behind the 2 managers. One of the managers is retiring at year end and I applied. I think I'm the obvious choice and I can give myself a laundry list of the things I do and do well and the various people across the company, including my management, asking specifically for my help and kudos I've received. Even today.

I interviewed last Monday and was told by the AVP that it would be 2-3 weeks. But every fiber of my being is thinking that I'm not going to get it. Now I know that life happens and there is no guarantee. I talked with the AVP this afternoon and got the impression that I'll be there for a while. But I don't think it will be in the manager roll.

So, I'm sitting here pondering giving up a job I like, I do well at and that people seem to think I do a good job at, because I don't want to face the rejection of not getting it. Quitting before hearing anything with no job lined up and leaving a job and people I like.

I just don't understand how my thinking has gotten so out of whack. Even if I don't get the job I have no reason to expect that they will also fire me. But I just cannot get that out of my head.

Honestly, I probably would have been better off not applying at all, but it's what I want to do. The AVP even made it seem months ago that she knew the manager was going to leave soon and that she wanted me to begin picking up some of the stuff that would be assigned to her.

Anyway, anxiety sucks.

[Yzen]

The threat of rejection causes me great anxiety - especially when it is something I want. You could try to 'put on the shelf' any thought about your future career until you hear from the AVP in 2-3 weeks. Tell yourself you will not entertain any career thoughts or decisions until that day. The perceived threat might make you want to act now, but it seems you should wait until you know the outcome. It is hard to predict....people are difficult to read. I hope you get the position!

Thank you Yzen! I'm going to take your advice and let things play out. I don't think I'm actually as worried about losing the promotion as I am in losing how I feel about doing the job. I really like helping my team and managers, and I was assuming that losing the promotion was like saying I wasn't good at helping or that they didn't really need the help.

I think I'll be OK, I just really like this job.

So, thanks again. I really appreciate that you responded and understand.

I had a good long talk with the manager who's retiring this morning. I told her I was thinking about leaving. That I wanted the manager job and knew I could do it, but feeling very much out of the loop about everything going on in the department. Not sure it would get better.

She said I was still very much in consideration and that I should really just wait. That I had an advocate that I wouldn't expect. Which is great. I'm not particularly politically savvy, so it feels good to know at least one person is in my court. She too said she thinks the department/company needs me, so maybe 2 people.

But as I sat pondering all we talked about, I began to have doubts again. Not about my ability or desire for the job, but that maybe I'm too needed in my current roll to be able to be promoted. There is literally no one else in the department that knows a fraction of what I know. I'd like to think that plays in my favor. Promote me or lose me. But I don't think they know what I do, just that I do it. Sight unseen. Magic just happens and they're none the wiser.

I guess I need to toot my own horn a bit.

Any way, had doubts and the negative voice became loud and clear. Decided to work from home to get away from the office for a bit. So, at home with some quiet and able to work to keep my mind off of things. Just got invited to a thank you lunch with another department. See that only one other person from my department was invited. That's something. Right?

[seesaw]

Xando, try and be patient and wait and see what happens with the promotion. However, in my opinion, what I would do, if I didn't get the promotion, I would start looking for another job, and once said job is lined up, I would leave. Here's why: you can't just be applying for a promotion because a position is open. You must feel like you deserve it, like you qualify for it, and that you'd do it well. Why would you stay somewhere that doesn't value you enough to promote from within to keep good employees. They should know, from a business perspective, that if they don't promote from within, that they risk losing good employees.

Just my perspective.

Seesaw

Thank you seesaw! I appreciate that you responded. And I am trying to wait. It's just so hard though. And having anxiety does not help keep my mind clear when stuff like this is going on. My heart tells me things are going to be OK and my brain says everyone hates me and I'll be fired. Neither is true, but they're fighting it out with me in between. I have to listen to both as if they were the absolute truth. Makes everything I say and do feel passive aggressive.

I'm waiting but keeping options open. Quitting is on the list, but today is not the top option.

Thanks again!

For fun and to just see how it fit, I decided today that I would act like I was the manager. I had the same meetings, but spoke with more authority and in turn was treated with a bit more respect. Even by other AVPs. That might be placebo though.

I told my AVP what we were going to do, rather than ask. It seemed to work. And it felt good.

Now I REALLY want this job.

--------------------------------------

[hvert]

When are they going to tell you their decision?? Your conversation with the retiring manager sounds *very* interesting. Having an advocate is huge. I hope you find out who it is. Even if you don't get this position, that advocate may be able to help you get another.

Do you think you will like managing more than what you do now?

They're finalizing their decision next week and presenting it to the VP the next. So, by the 18th I'll know. We're a small department and during my interview we talked about the need to reorganize. So all the decisions and getting the OK from the VP sounds plausible. But the retiring manager leaves at year end. Time is running out to turn things over before she goes.

I used to work for the VP, so it's either her or the AVP who are the advocate. That's my guess. For this decision they'd be the one's that matter anyway.

I had a good talk with the AVP yesterday. She said I was important to the department and the big project we're working on. Is worried I wouldn't be happy in management. I was a manager before and quit that because I couldn't be a good manager and a good developer. It wasn't because I didn't like being a manager, in fact I did like it. I just couldn't do both well. That was a bad decision I'll likely regret the rest of my life.

Now that's being held against me. But I wouldn't have applied for the position if I weren't certain it's what I want. It's not like I don't have experience doing it.

To your question about whether I would like it more... I don't know. It will be different and will come with it's own challenges. I feel up to those challenges and I'm doing more things now that allow me to do my daily work and be a manager and be good at both. I do feel like if this doesn't happen now, my hopes of ever doing it in the future are over.

The few people I've talked to about it seem to think I'm the obvious. Some saying they want me to get it. But I'm actually less certain now than just after the interview. I'm more certain that they need me, as the AVP told me that yesterday. She doesn't want me to leave and I'm important to the department. She said I've got more clout in the company than I think I do. And the last couple of days of meetings that seems to be true. They're still involving me in lots of important stuff and inviting me to higher level meetings.

At this point I'm resigned to not getting the job. Now I need to decide about staying or going. I like my department and the people and I want to help them succeed. I'm just having doubts about whether that matters to the decision makers.

I was ready to quit a week or so back, even without knowing, but I'm going to wait it out. I don't want them to reject me as I'd have a really hard time with that, but I need them to say it so I know for certain. I don't want to leave with doubts.

I had a good day today. Doing things I'm good at and helping people. I felt like I mattered and that's all I really want. To go home at the end of the day feeling like anything I do has meaning. I know most of the time it does, I just struggle to accept it.

Thanks hvert! I appreciate you responding.

[hvert]

I bet both the AVP and the VP are advocating for you. I don't think the AVP would have phrased the bit about the advocate the way she did if she was talking about herself...

Do you think you are being invited to these meetings for an opportunity to demo your ability to handle the new role? TBH, everything you are saying makes me think you are going to get this promotion. I hope they hire someone to take over your current workload so you don't have to do two jobs. I'm sorry you have to wait so long to find out... but it's kind of awesome to directly hear how valuable you are.

The retiring manager told me about there being an advocate for me getting the promotion not the AVP. Which is why it has to be one or both of them.

I do think being invited is an opportunity and is a more likely possibility. I'm being invited to meetings with the business and with larger parts of the company. I'm starting to pick up some of the work of the retiring manager, including leading her people. I have also been asked to do some presentations to some important people about our new project. And the VP said she would like her and the AVP to be invited to those. Why, I don't know, but to see how I'm doing is much more likely than anything bad.

I wouldn't think if I were doing a poor job or even just my everyday job, that they would care much about those presentations, nor invite me to the bigger company meetings. That probably is a good sign. I just sometimes feel like there are some political machinations going on and that this is some big plot to make me look stupid to the company so I can fail. But then I can't understand why they would go to that much effort. Why when I ask how I'm doing do they say I'm doing great and I'm important, if they really don't like me or want me to fail. My brain is messed up.

I just have a hard time internalizing the good things, because I focus so much on the negative. And honestly right now, there isn't really any negative. Stress from the project maybe.

I know in the grand scheme, this promotion is not that important. The people I work with have family and friends, we have several holidays coming up and we're in the middle of a very major project. Lots of things to be on people's minds and keeping them busy. But this promotion is EVERYTHING, to me. I wish I could let it go until the decision is made, because right now I'm really struggling with it.

Thanks again hvert! I do appreciate your insight.

[Xando2]

I want to apologize. I had my original account deleted because I was feeling very hurt with the world and life. I had really just given up. But you've all been so very, very kind. This is really the only place I've found any support and I forgot that. I'm sorry.

I heard some gossip today that the AVP had already chosen someone else before the notice about the retiring manager leaving was even posted. Before the job was posted. I was never really a serious candidate. What's worse is that the person she choose got the link to the job posting from me. Not smart enough to find the job themselves, but smart enough for the job.

I also heard that the VP was not happy about that and wanted everything to be open and fair. So pretty sure she didn't want me either, just didn't want to get in trouble with HR. I'm pretty devastated.

Retiring manager still insists I'm in the running. Said the gossip was wrong and to keep hanging in there. Now I feel like everyone is lying to me. But I've given up hope that anything will happen in my favor.

This evening I'm feeling like my world is over. Finally, after a few years of thinking like this, I told my brother this afternoon that when I say quit I don't mean just my job. Quit quit.

I don't know why this is so important, but I really just don't feel like going on. I unfortunately put all of my career eggs in the basket that is my department. And now not only am I not going to get the promotion, I'm probably not going to be around much longer.

And sure I can leave, but these people are like family. If I'm not good enough for family who would I be good enough for.

Anyway, I felt I owed it to those of you reading to hear the end of my story. Please, don't let your work be your life.

Be well.
Brian

[hvert]

Oh no, that gossip is unpleasant. It's possible that the VP really *does* want things to be open and fair... and that the VP wants *you* in the role, just like the retiring manager does.

You are right, though, we shouldn't let our work be our life. It's not healthy or good. The companies we work for are, from what I have seen, often incredibly dysfunctional. It amazes me sometimes that we get anything accomplished, that anything works. The world is a much bigger place than your organization. Maybe your view of the world has been limited to your job, but it doesn't have to stay that way.

You sound like you are in a dark place right now or that you were when you posted that. I'm glad you can be honest with your brother. Do you have someone you can talk to if you keep having those feelings, like this is it? Of all the options you have, quit quitting doesn't sound like the best or even in the top ten. You might get this promotion. You might not. The person who does get it might not be able to do it. You might get an even better promotion. You might get recruited by another company if you put your name out there. Maybe your retiring manager will pick up a consulting gig and find the perfect spot for you. You could take the next six months to save money and quit or take a leave of absence to do some traveling or something you've always wanted to do...

I have trouble keeping stuff like this in perspective, probably because I am depressed and can tend to be paranoid/think the worst. In August I was positive that I would lose my contract gig by the end of October. A friend of mine pointed out that I have those kinds of thoughts on a pretty regular basis and they don't actually come to pass. Do you think you might do something similar?

Even with this update, I still think you stand a good chance of getting this. I am picturing AVP deciding she wants so and so in the role before she posts the job, and then her jaw dropping when she realizes that it isn't going to happen now that you've applied.

I mistakenly thought the AVP and retiring manager were the same person earlier, sorry about that.

[Xando2]

Thanks again hvert! I do appreciate your thoughts.

I'm feeling a lot less like quit quitting. At this point I'm doing everything I can to keep busy and not think about all of that stuff. Thinking about it isn't changing anything and only really hurting me.

I hear you about keeping this in perspective and thinking the worst. I've struggled with that in other areas as well. My ability to predict the future is pretty terrible. So, I'll let this process do what it needs.

I work in a professional office setting, but being in IT I normally just dress business casual. Yesterday I wore a sport coat. That caught a bit of attention. If I get the position I want and need to feel more professional and authoritative for my department and the business we support. If I don't get it, I still need to feel that, but additionally for other groups in the company and other companies. It felt good yesterday, so going to keep doing that.

So, by stopping thinking about the promotion and focusing on the only thing I do control, me, I've been feeling better and things are working in my favor to be more visible across the company. No matter what happens with the promotion I should be OK. I will be disappointed that the "American dream" of hard work leading to advancement, doesn't actually work that way. But they are leaning on me for help which is an awesome feeling.

Thanks hvert!

[hvert]

I'm happy you are in a better place with it. Not thinking about it is good. I hope you can keep that detachment up until you come back to tell me you got the promotion

Recognizing the catastrophic thinking/worry/whatever it is is really good. I feel like I need to write it down somewhere and remind myself to read it when I start to think a certain way.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so proud of you! I'm glad you feel better now You're strong

[Xando2]

Just got an invite from HR to interview with the VP next week. Happy and anxious. Had all but given up that anything would change for me. Still not going to worry about it. Well, maybe a little.

[Xando2]

I knew I was going to think and worry. Damn it, I was almost completely over things and moving on.

I'm leaning toward meeting with the VP but telling her I'm no longer interested in the position. If I'm not the AVP's first choice, how can I work with her if I do get a job reporting to her. Knowing she wanted someone else. Knowing that she didn't even want to interview anyone else, including me. I only know bits and pieces, so not the whole truth, but this just seems ****** to me. I think I'm actually more angry than anxious.

And I understand that if I do that, my expiration clock starts ticking and it's only a matter of time before we all part ways. And then I'm back to where I was before thinking about quit quitting.

Damn it, I was hoping for a peaceful weekend.

Edit: Now all I can think about is quit quitting.

[Xando2]

Talked to my grandmother tonight. That helped a lot. My brother barely responds to my venting anymore. This weekend on here was very lonely as well. I just really don't have anyone to talk to, so it's been hard.

I'm feeling a bit better. Almost back to where I was last week. Accepting not getting the promotion and being OK with it.

This is going to be a hell of a week. But it will be over soon enough.

[Xando2]

Interview with VP tomorrow. She was emailing me this morning about some things at work. The last email was thanking me for helping and included her fellow VP from the business side. Talked to the AVP a couple of times today as well. Got to meet with one of the company lawyers because the VP wanted me to work with them. AVP wants me to be part of interviews for openings on retiring managers team.

Part of me wants to believe those are good signs. Part of me has to remember that I'm not getting the job no matter what is happening around me.

I think if I can just focus on work until March, I should be set to quit and move on. I still hope I get the promotion, but I'm really tired of the process so far. No wonder employees are so disengaged at work. I'm like 90% engaged and loving my job right now, but this promotion and interview process is so freaking slow. Or seems slow. I find that my anxiety tends to make it feel like the world is moving at half speed.

[hvert]

Three more days... unless the VP tells you something during your meeting with her today??? There are a lot of mixed signals at your company. I get the impression that they want to do right by you, whether it's this promotion or something else they will give you instead. Do you get that sense?

I wonder if they would hire someone external to avoid insulting you, the AVP, or the other internal candidate?

I am in the category of people who would rather have bad news immediately than wait for good news. Not theoretically, but in practice. I hate waiting. Suspense drives me crazy and I start to ruminate. Is that anxiety? I always thought some people were just that way.

I am reminding you of something you said earlier:

"I hear you about keeping this in perspective and thinking the worst. I've struggled with that in other areas as well. My ability to predict the future is pretty terrible. So, I'll let this process do what it needs."

[Xando2]

Thanks hvert!

I am going to let the process play out, but I know deep in myself that I'm not going to get it and I'm mostly OK with that now. But this kind of opportunity won't come up again any time soon and so I've already started making plans to move in March.

I think what they're doing is trying to convince me to stay after they give the promotion to someone else. Giving me more responsibilities and greater visibility in hope that it's enough to keep me. And except for the better job title, those are all great things. Who wouldn't want that.

But if I don't get the promotion, I'm gone in March. My brother and some friends are telling me that I should be happy to have a good job and to just ride it out. And I have 20 more years of work ahead so there could be other promotions. But I can't wait like a dog at the back door for another chance. I have to make things happen. Now.

It hurts to think about because I really love my job, like my team and company. And generally I think they like and respect and need me. Just not enough to promote me.

[Xando2]

HR posted my current job. Not sure what to make of that.