[sugahorse1]

I hope I can discuss this topic with people that are knowledgable and strong enough.

I've come to realise that this is a part of the Bipolar Depressive Episode that a lot of us battle with.

I'm not talking about being an immediate danger yet, but just needing some support and understanding.

I am battling to find someone in my life that I can talk to. People either haven't got any experience and don't know what to say/how to handle the situation, or they have the experience, but the topic is too triggering for them.

Am I the only one that gets to a place where I feel I need to talk about these urges, to get an objective overview and some support? I just need someone to walk next to me until these urges go away - and they usually do after a few hours.

Or do you have some really good self-help tips up your sleeve that you can fall back on without becoming a burden on others?

[Trippin2.0]

I used to be able to pray the urges away, mostly urges of od'ing... these days as the BP progressed, I find myself unable to do so. I used to speak to my X about them (as he was also my BFF), and he would keep me grounded, these days I speak to my brother, he then sits and prays FOR me, holds me, confiscates my meds and then proceeds to distract me with some comedy, no matter how NOT in the mood I am... that's our current plan, and it seems to be working for me. ( on a side note, me and my X are on speaking terms again, but I refuse to make him my BP crutch again.

I hope you feel better soon, giving the monster in your head a voice is not considered weak!

[Omers]

Hey Suga,
Couple of things...
I don't trigger and am around a lot, often in and out as the day allows. Always feel free to PM me and I will get back to you as soon as I can when I get back on. This weekend I won't be on much as I am going out of town but I will still be checking in.
If your T returns phone calls I have called my T and asked her a question just to have her call me back. When she calls I let it go to voicemail or the answering machine. That way when I just need to hear a caring voice it is saved on my phone. It also helps to tide me over until she returns a call if I need to talk to her.
I have also had a T that did a session with me all on self care and she recorded it and gave me the tape... in the era of CD's and MP3's this is a bit harder but can still be done.
If you do a search there are both hotlines you can call and web pages with live support. I have never tried them, but they are out there.
I am still half asleep from my sleep meds but will post more as I wake up and they come to me.

[sugahorse1]

Thanks both Omers and Trippin.

I'm not sure I could call a help-line... but i guess if I needed to I could.

I wish my T could leave me a message to listen to. She did once, when I was upset with her and refused to talk to her, and it felt so good to have a voicemail to go back to.

[Ryask]

I actually recommend two things, one this forum, i mean as long as you use the trigger icon...it should be fine, alot of us can be here to support..or just to listen without talks of suicide triggering or even affecting us.The second is actually one of the hotline numbers, one you dont have to give your name, two they don't judge, they just listen and they are trained to help people through those situations right? I mean whatever you decide, i think you should give a help line a fair shot.

[lynn P.]

Since the topic of suicide seems to be taboo for some people, it continues to be shrouded in secrecy but I don't agree with this concept. I think people who are feeling the urges or thoughts should be able to discuss their feelings and maybe this would make them feel better.

I lost my brother almost 3 yrs ago to suicide and I talk about it, hoping to spare others from going the same route. I also had another brother who was bipolar who would go through stages where he had the urges.

I don't mind helping or talking about it with people. I don't get triggered by it, even though I've been closely affected. I think the best advice is to be prepared and have safety measures handy - this could be your therapist, understanding friend/family member, crisis line, emergency services etc. The next important thing to remember is - be 'patient', 'wait' and have 'faith' those feelings will most definately pass. I believe if we take it out of the closet and learn how to respond, people wouldn't suffer alone and scared. I usually give this very compassionate weblink:

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

[bpd2]

(((sugahorse)))
As you noted the suicidal ideation is very often a part of a bi-polar trough. The forum is always here, and people will be thinking of you and caring, but remember that a post doesn't always get a rapid reply...so don't let all your hope for companionship through this rest with that. I agree about call ing a hotline, whenever you need it. For me, this level of depression is something I depend upon the regularity of therapy to help me through. Part of the reason I do stick with my therapist through thick and thin is because of the recurrence of just this thing. We work on strategies, new and old, that help me with it to get me through the hours/days/weeks until I rise again. Just as what goes up must come down, in our case, what goes down will come up. The strategies we use include a hotline when I am get frantic--because there is no other contact that is reliable at just that moment: he may be uninterruptible, my husband needs to stay connected to his lessons (and I need him to be able to compartmentalize, so that when he is home with me, he is mine), a forum can be hot on something else at the time, or even in an ebb (there's a sort of group-energy sometimes)...and so on. So: the hotline, us in a general and sometimes specific way, and a strategic attack on the attack with your therapist....that's my recipe.

The danger for me in asking others for their strategies when I am really strung out is that I get frustrated if they don't work and I get mad and then I get sad. Because...what I really, really want, after all, is for--as you say--someone to walk with me through it....that's why I think it's wisest, at least for me, to stick with the "recipe."

[sugahorse1]

thanks Lynn and BPD2- i think it's this taboo approach that leaves me so confused and feeling i have no strategy. Started talking about this with my T today, and she's adopted a long-winded approach. We are going to tap into my strengths-they are already there, just gotta pinpoint them and work on them. They are what have got me thro this in the past. Then i have a week to do homework-highlight times when i've been down and managed to get thro them. Try work out what strengths i emplyed to get thro it. Then bring it to T.
A bit worried about my relationship with T:i told her today how much i craved an emotional connection, but understood it wasnt going to come from her. So it's a very cold and professional relationship. Great if you are in a frame of mind to do some heavy work, but not so much when you're lonely and depressed. I also kind of hope she's have a bit more of an 'out'/solution for those times when i have those thoughts. Oh well-seems like I'm going to have to get a lot stronger, a lot quicker.. Hope this doesnt trigger me

[ladyjrnlist]

When I have those thoughts, for me it is easier to acknowledge them rather than try to ignore or bury them. Then I say, well, I can think that but I won't act on it.
Fighting the thoughts just makes the depression worse for me.
Also, I am another one you can talk to if you need to. I don't trigger easily.
Don't let the thoughts ashame you or scare you, it magnifies them then. Try to just roll with it and tell yourself they are only thoughts and they cannot hurt you.
Unless you develop intent, you are OK, even with those thoughts.

[Skully]

I am always here for anyone who needs support! I am on pretty much all the time and if you PM me I will respond if I am on. I will never leave anyone stranded and will even give out my phone numbers to anyone who wants them. I am a trained crisis counselor and have a lot of experience with it.

[sugahorse1]

wow-there's a lot of support here. Thanks for being honest and open xx

[Omers]

I get REALLY scared when I get sui and having someone to talk to who isn't going to send the cops to my house because I am not thinking right is a big help. Thats what happened the last time I went inpatient... the nurse just hit the panic button. She got so triggered(?) by my scared that she sent the cops to my house, I was put in hand cuffs, the police transport van with some fellon and brought to the hosp. I was in lock down, isolation with all alarms blaring when I got there. I could hear the nurses out side my door talking about how they had been ordered to restrain me either physically or with meds! Finally (with two very intimidating security guards on either side of the door) a nurse ventured in. She told me that I had come in with EVERY "red flag" checked but she thought that maybe I was just scared. Thank God she trusted her instincts over her orders! After my history I don't know if I would have come back out had they restrained me. Had the first nurse just taken the time to figure out I was scared and sui thinking but did not have a plan or means I didn't really need to go. I just wanted an apointment with my pdoc!
But you're right, it is SO hard to find those people who can listen and talk you through it. People who don't panic but will still keep you safe.

[BlackPup]

I struggled with sui thoughts for years, I guess I felt ashamed of them so didn't tell my friends and family what was really going on, seeing the pain in their faces of not being able to help was horrible...
There were a few people I did tell, my minister and sometimes my best friend and husband, they knew that all I needed from them was for them to be with me for a bit.
When I got a good T and pdoc - I told them everything and then I didn't need to burden my friends with this pain as much...
Then as meds and life improved I have not heard those voices or had those thoughts for a long time...

[Omers]

One day at a time,if that's too hard, take one hour at a time, if that's too hard take one minute at a time...

...when that's too hard - eat chocolate

Does Hershey's do overnight delivery to private residences?
Just in case

Just to let you know, I may not always be on the forums (BF thinks I am, but really, I'm not! Lol). But whether here literally, or not, whether words fail, or not, all I can see and feel is holding the person with complete empathy. I know how taboo it feels. Talking about these things does not trigger me, though it is as real (if not more real) to me than "real" life. That probably doesn't make any sense, but there you have it.

Soooo, long and short, talking about sui does not trigger me. Wish it could be talked about more freely, though because it is so triggering for others, understand the limitations.

(Also, thank you for bringing this up suga, it's given me one of those moments of complete revelation... Wow. )

[Omers]

OK, strange question...
Might it be possible to get a sui forum like the eating disorders or self injury ones? Where we wouldn't be able to share ways to sabotage our work but where people would know the trigger risk when coming into that section? Would that help lift some of the "taboo" as long as there were rules to keep it healthy?

[Ryask]

Originally Posted by Omers

OK, strange question...
Might it be possible to get a sui forum like the eating disorders or self injury ones? Where we wouldn't be able to share ways to sabotage our work but where people would know the trigger risk when coming into that section? Would that help lift some of the "taboo" as long as there were rules to keep it healthy?

I think that would be wonderful, but also a slippery sloap.I think it takes 20 people to make a group with their own forums..kinda invite only....i mean...i bet 20 people here who would be willing to be a part of that forum or group...although i don't think it should be called Suicidal thoughts...or anything...maybe we could think of a better name for it like...suicide support?...or something... I mean we could sticky the suicide hot line numbers at the top of the forum... or maybe it could just be a sub forum in this section, then that way people could go there to either, get it out, or support, and they could also choose not to go in there if they know it triggers them.

[Omers]

yep, that's where I was heading. I just don't know how those things work around here.

[Ryask]

I'll talk to a friend of mine on site who has formed a group, with it's own fourms..actually she formed two i'll find out from her what it takes to get started, if everyone is interested in this?What do you think?

[sugahorse1]

@ Blackpup - It's good to hear you've come so far!
@ Innerzone - I also wish I could also just hold a person in that position. That's all they really need, someone to support and sit with you until the urges go away. To say some positive things, to show they care. I have craved that myself on numerous ocassions too

I'm in - happy to look after it too. I will try work it out - how to form a group - but if anyone has some experience, pls PM me.

I hope Doc wont be upset, but I think it's a very real part of psychological issues. I'm not sure if it's possible to block access to the whole forum for non-members; I'd just hate for someone to stumble across it, not knowing its purpose, and being triggered.
What are your thoughts on making it an open group, by invite only, or to be cleared by a moderator?

I have suggested a similar forum before (Check under community and technical help) and there were mixed feelings.

We need to be very careful that we don't take the burden of someone onto our own shoulders. And (Apart from maybe Skully) we need to remember we are mostly sufferes with empathy, but by no means professionals. And at some stage, professional intervention is the only answer.

[Ryask]

Well i'll PM you some info after i get it suga, and i think your right about it not being able to be stumbles apon...i mean if it's invite only then if you do see someone you think might be interested you could invite them, and they can choose as to weather they want to be there or not right?The invite only groups are not seen by others i'm in such a group right now people can't see it on the index as it is only accessible by those who have been invited.As for taking burden thats why i suddgested posting some crisis help line information at the top, i think if we can't deal with it really, we can refure to the hot lines for professional help.

[sugahorse1]

Definitely need the links to helplines!

I'd hate for it to be stumbled upon by someone unsuspecting. Invite only does make it a bit difficult to ensure that all people that could benefit from it are also made aware of it?!?

[Ryask]

Well thats probably where you would come in, i mean since it's your idea i would assume you would have invite powers to join the group. You view other forums i know, so i mean there is no harm in asking someone, if they want to join in a PM or something, alternately you could make a posting about it in a few forums, and just let people know it exists and what it's TRUE function is, i mean i dont think you want it to degrade into just a pity party forum, as long as thier is rules..like..no encouraging anyone to suicide, no discussing when, i mean i personally would not want to see..plans like that..like how and when and with what..i mean it's tough to know whats appropriate...but like for instance what are the rules for people in the SI forum, like i am sure they can't say anything they want about it.

[sugahorse1]

Thanks for your input Ryask

If anyone else has something to add, please do...

[Ryask]

Hi folks,

I'm often a little wary or concerned when asked to create this forum, because I'm afraid that it will feed the self injury behavior rather than be a support or help to its members.

Having said that, I did create the room and hope that all of you make supportive, helpful, and as positive as possible use of it. I hope you find it helpful to talk to one another to find a way to reduce the self injury behavior, rather than just sharing it with one another.

Please take care of yourself and each other.

Best,
John

PS - Please use the trigger icon for your post if it has triggering material in it. This is new as of August, 2003. Thank you and take care.

So this is what he said about the SI forum. I think you address him in a "this is sportive environment, not a forum designed to encourage people to do it" he might be more open to it.