[Michah]

Hi all the Borderline Beauties!!

On my soap box again......

During this painfull experience of writing my book, I have reflected alot on the nature of love with BPD......and the impact that the illness has on loving, and loving unconditionally.

Most of us have come from horrendous pasts and upbringings only to find that our identity has never formed and we do not have the necessary tools for love(amongst other things)......just my experience and reading.....no?

We spend much time seeking such severe approval from others.......that is the general thread that I seem to gain not just from this forum but from this whole community. And I for one, had this in spades......and the approval I so desperately sought was from my parents(even though my mother and I "divorced" for 10 years!). I could be an engineer for NASA and it still would not have been good enough. So along with terrible illness I studied science and worked full time and then had stints in my favourite psych hopsital.......what the?

I love science and will go back to my degree someday.......but it is because I want to, not because of some misplaced malignant loyalty to my parents.....

I see people struggle with the notion of love......or lets say, self-love......I hated everyone for years......yet so desperately needed to "feel" and I thought that I needed people to be whole......not so......

I needed ME to be whole........and while I was around other people, I was but a mirror of them, for my identity was gone and I refelcted them.....there is no truth in that.

So, on my journey to love, I found that being alone was the only way to be.......but this is where I struggle, for I am but a solitary creature by nature, which is why I could never understand why I so desperately needed to be with people.......until I realised the "reflection" angle. I needed people to tell me who I was.........blah!! get rid of that......

I ask all of you, why do you need to be loved when you are learning to love yourselves? Love can ONLY come from within........I am not saying that we should all live like hermits(oh that would be good!) and never seek the company of others, but why do we put OURSELVES down when others do not love US?

This is all introspection, mind you......for I am still seeking the answers......so forgive me if I think out loud.......but it deeply saddens me when I see people struggle with Love, like it needs to be harnessed and conquered and this general affliction of "But I am flawed how could anyone love me?"

Well, I will tell you.......you are all on this mission of inner truth and wisdom, you all have great insight even if you don't know it, you are on the journey of a life-time that NO ONE can compare with.....people will never be tested like you and SURVIVE.......YOU are WARRIORS!!!

There, I said it.......and you know? The love will come in time and when you are ready it will be magnificent and you will be warriors of the spirit.....for you shall love so much that it will overflow......thats where I am heading.

Anyone with me.......in all our various paths and journeys?

Much love to all of you......

Michah

[JayS]

Thank you Michah... I would like to reply to this but cannot, I really have no idea what I'm thinking, I don't know much anymore and can't concentrate. But right now, love has no meaning to me, I don't need it anyway.

[paddym22]

I am with you.........to me the search for unconditional love is a complicated matter as I do not know exactly what it means as I dont believe I ever experienced it as a child. It such a quagmire Michah, Yes I to would willingly live alone without contact with others but that is neither practical or realistic. So I have these relationships with people but they are only evolving as I evolve. There always seemed to be a trade off with love and loving someone in my past life, they wanted something from me or I could provide something for them, but as I am learning now my own needs were never met, so where was the unconditional love in that. Its a bitter pill we have had to swallow all these years, such a complicated life. But like you I will continue the fight and trust that there is something better at the end of this. It is through my own releasing of pain of the past and acknowledging my anger that will foster forgivness and set me free into a path of self love and then I will be able to love others more. My psychotherapist told me last week I needed to be more compassionate with myself, there seems to be something new every fortnight that I see him. So much to learn.....So much to do, but we will get there in the end, I just know it. I am rambling and not making sense, but you are not alone Dear Michah..................................

[ni33i]

This kind of helps me in my situation. My friend who has bpd, whom which we have more feelings than just friends for each other, has confused me to no end about us. Since he has been diagnosed with bpd I have researched it quite a bit and I keep reading that it's hard for people with bpd to have a loving relationship without turmoil. When we met he was going through a terrible break up and we got really close and I have stuck by his side for a year now helping him through all the hard times and it's definitely been a rough ride. It makes much more sense now that I know he has bpd, but I am so confused on what I should be doing for him. We both know that being in a relationship is out of the question because of his moods, but we both have agreed that too much has happened between us in an intimate way that we do not believe that we can just be friends. The past week has been the worst of all and I'm pretty sure it has come to an end, but I am still soooo worried about him. I do love him with all of my heart, but after a year of no commitment from him and me being there for him every step of the way is just not fair to me anymore. I don't want to give up on him and am scared to, but the fact that he has started hanging around other single girls is just too much and I feel I need to stop revolving my life around him and trying to help him and worry about myself and my daughter. Anyway, I'm sorry I'm sure I've bored everyone to death with that!

[Michah]

Originally Posted by JayS

Thank you Michah... I would like to reply to this but cannot, I really have no idea what I'm thinking, I don't know much anymore and can't concentrate. But right now, love has no meaning to me, I don't need it anyway.

Hello sweet! That is the good thing about love is that you do not need to feel it to know that it exists......

Like I said babe, no rush........one day it will come to you and you will love as much as you can and it will feel good. There is no constraint to love......for I have found that it does not burn out like rage, and is more sustainable in small doses.......

have no fear my friend.......for you are much loved.......and one day, you will love much....

I KNOW it

Take care and big hugs babe

Michah

[Michah]

Originally Posted by paddym22

I am with you.........to me the search for unconditional love is a complicated matter as I do not know exactly what it means as I dont believe I ever experienced it as a child. It such a quagmire Michah, Yes I to would willingly live alone without contact with others but that is neither practical or realistic. So I have these relationships with people but they are only evolving as I evolve. There always seemed to be a trade off with love and loving someone in my past life, they wanted something from me or I could provide something for them, but as I am learning now my own needs were never met, so where was the unconditional love in that. Its a bitter pill we have had to swallow all these years, such a complicated life. But like you I will continue the fight and trust that there is something better at the end of this. It is through my own releasing of pain of the past and acknowledging my anger that will foster forgivness and set me free into a path of self love and then I will be able to love others more. My psychotherapist told me last week I needed to be more compassionate with myself, there seems to be something new every fortnight that I see him. So much to learn.....So much to do, but we will get there in the end, I just know it. I am rambling and not making sense, but you are not alone Dear Michah..................................

Ah Paddy.......it is so good to know you better........and I see much warmth in you.......even if you struggle to bring the darkness in to the light.......for me, it is the expression of love that I find difficult now........for after much hard work, I felt the seeds of self love which then flowed on to others.......but expressing it? Weeelll that is a WHOLE other kettle of fish

So, I started to think one day......."Okay, so now I have a better understanding of love.......but how do I show it?". People that I have studied(sorry if that sounds clinical, but that is kind of how I am) seem to have a "connection", a nuance to their love that is barely visible but is there if you are quick!! I asked myself "Can I pick the people who love unconditionally from the people who love untruthfully?" and I tried it and it worked!

I found the people who loved unconditionally made more eye contact, were intimate without touching, felt still in each others presence with no pretense.......it just felt "enlightened".

So how do I apply that? I asked my partner "even though I do not hug much nor seek your company, how do you know that I love you?" and he said "I just DO....by the way you look at me and your total acceptance of my spiritual freedom".........aaahhhhh!!! Light bulb moment

So I have probably gone completely off the subject but it is all a journey is it not? And it is not the seeking of love(for love, like happiness, is a slippery thing) but it is being "ready and receptive" to love.......the good and the bad parts........and it takes time my good friend.......for all of us....

Keep the faith sweet........you are already practicing it!!

Big hugs, babe

Michah

PS("compassionate" is a great word........your T sounds like they are on the ball.........compassion for selves is a struggle to practice sometimes.....I get that......it is difficult, no doubt)

[iamtwilight]

kudos to you Michah for this post.

okay, i'm just going to write stream of consciousness so be aware that this might be triggering to some. i'm gonna go to the weak points here. :P this is also LONG... bear with me.

this is one of the most essential characteristics in BPD, i feel.

i read this theory a while ago and it hit home. i did not want it to hit home at all. it said that borderline people see people as objects, who have only instrumental value. "i need you because of the love you give me" - initially i thought, "isn't that what the name of the game is, anyway?" until the article said, "a normal person needs another person because he loves them, a bordeliner loves because he needs them."

that whole instrumental value thing hurt me but when i start putting it into other terms, it makes sense. i also need (see?) people to see who i am. it's crap. it hurts because i've gone for so long thinking i'm self-sufficient, independent and whatever... only to find out when i enter a commited relationship that i'm probably the worst co-dependent person there is who also thinks people only have instrumental value.

love translates to needing in our minds. the lack of love caused needing it, and now when we think we're loving, we're actually needing a lot without the sort of love that other people are used to. which is why some might run away from us, or do things that we think are rejection. i know i feel this way a lot, and i'm in a picture perfect relationship. i translate so many of his doings to rejection/hurt and that takes a toll on our communication, because i tend to start rejecting before i get rejected. "better adjust to this", is often heard in my head.

and it hurts so much because we go there with our 100% genuine feelings, dedication and devotion but these people who don't know about our soul lives think we just want to manipulate. i swear i never manipulate consciously. i mean, when i do things, i don't think "ha, i think i'll sulk in the corner so i'll get his attention!"

what can i say about my personal healing? i'm anxiously waiting to get working with people who can help me, and to develop some sort of personality, help me uncover the hidden horrors of my childhood and when that's all tolerable, i hope i will experience genuine "ordinary" (though to us, that's extraordinary) love and be a good, worthy partner for my other half.


twilight

[Michah]

Originally Posted by iamtwilight

kudos to you Michah for this post.

okay, i'm just going to write stream of consciousness so be aware that this might be triggering to some. i'm gonna go to the weak points here. :P this is also LONG... bear with me.No trigger sweets......it is good to see you!!

this is one of the most essential characteristics in BPD, i feel.

i read this theory a while ago and it hit home. i did not want it to hit home at all. it said that borderline people see people as objects, who have only instrumental value. "i need you because of the love you give me" - initially i thought, "isn't that what the name of the game is, anyway?" until the article said, "a normal person needs another person because he loves them, a bordeliner loves because he needs them." Unfortunately true......and no, we do not want to see it like that, for that is not US, that is the illness talking. And I have seen "normal" people behave less honourably than people with borderline, so.....a theory....see what you think....statistically, people with borderline have above average intelligence(IQ) which is both a blessing and a curse. For me and my survival, I have relied solely on my intellect to get me through....logic, analysis, introspection. And as much as this is skewed sometimes with extremes in emotion.....I desperately sought logic...for it was SAFE. I even do algebra to calm myself down sometimes! yep, I am a strange one. So, I knew what love was in its formation, but i did not believe in it. I knew it existed, but I could no sooner manifest unconditional love than fly to the moon. There is no LOGIC in true love.....it is all emotion based. So it did not fit and it DID NOT feel safe......if you know what I mean. It felt like the idea of love was so big that it would kill me.

that whole instrumental value thing hurt me but when i start putting it into other terms, it makes sense. i also need (see?) people to see who i am. it's crap. it hurts because i've gone for so long thinking i'm self-sufficient, independent and whatever... only to find out when i enter a commited relationship that i'm probably the worst co-dependent person there is who also thinks people only have instrumental value.Sweet, I hear you......and even to this day......I struggle with this, I have been with my partner for 5 years. But I guess this is where self talk comes in. I look at my family sometimes(My man and my son) and they look like complete strangers that I look after. And then others times I look at them and have these strange little tugging in my heart that make me feel sick......for I am unfamiliar with love and am learning all the ways it manifests......fascinating! I actually say to my partner now "You feel like strangers.....I love you more than life, but I cannot show love for I do not know you at the moment......but it will pass, and I will seek a big hug." For us, it helps......sometimes just saying it gets it out of your body and removes some of the potency.......in saying this, it cannot be that way with everybody......but if you have no expectations, it can work to help the other person understand. It also helps that I now have the skills to RECOGNISE it for what it is......that way, I can deal with it in a logical way......unlike the terror of it in the past.

love translates to needing in our minds. the lack of love caused needing it, and now when we think we're loving, we're actually needing a lot without the sort of love that other people are used to. which is why some might run away from us, or do things that we think are rejection. i know i feel this way a lot, and i'm in a picture perfect relationship. i translate so many of his doings to rejection/hurt and that takes a toll on our communication, because i tend to start rejecting before i get rejected. "better adjust to this", is often heard in my head.OOOhhhh yeah.......KNOW this one!! A very insightful comment......

and it hurts so much because we go there with our 100% genuine feelings, dedication and devotion but these people who don't know about our soul lives think we just want to manipulate. i swear i never manipulate consciously. i mean, when i do things, i don't think "ha, i think i'll sulk in the corner so i'll get his attention!"yessss! I get that too.......I could no sooner consciously manipulate than fly to the moon again......my exes used to say to me "You don't care!!! You are too laid back and you manipulate arguments just so you can get your own way!!!" Yeah......whatever

what can i say about my personal healing? i'm anxiously waiting to get working with people who can help me, and to develop some sort of personality, help me uncover the hidden horrors of my childhood and when that's all tolerable, i hope i will experience genuine "ordinary" (though to us, that's extraordinary) love and be a good, worthy partner for my other half.Babe, best, best of luck to you in your quest......know that you are not alone and be very, very kind to yourself. Are you waiting to see a therapist? If you are, keep pouring thoughts onto to paper or here in this forum.......we are here to support.......big hugs


twilight

[Abby]

This topic reminds me of something that happened a few yrs ago. I was very depressed and my sister brought me back a little gift from the shop of a cartoon man holding up a sign that said 'some people make the world more special just by being in it'. At the time although i appreciated that the gift was a lovely thought, i honestly could not understand what the phrase meant because for me there are always reasons why a person is special/well thought of/loved etc. I'm ashamed to say it actually angered me because all i could think was - 'no that isn't true, what a gimiky lie!' - and i wished she'd not bought it for me. (yes i'm a horrid person.)

But I cannot fathom how unconditional love works. I don't understand how someone can love a person just for who they are. What does that even mean? And does it actually hold any real weight? Is unconditional love better than conditional love, because isn't it a better feeling to have earnt love than to have it always there and it be so, just because?

I think it is very hard to self love if a person has never been shown that there is anything to love. I wonder if love is something that is innately in us from birth and something we all just need to 'find' again or is it something we are taught? Can unconditional love even be taught, or does believing it can be make it automatically conditional love?

I don't understand what is so bad about conditonal love. That is a love of choice. Surely that is better than unconditional love which i quite frankly don't understand because it has no basis/logic.

I know it is awful to say this because the people that tell me it really care and it sounds ungrateful especially as not many people do get the chance to hear it (perhaps i'm too indulged!) but i really don't like it when people say to me 'i love you' and when i ask why they just reply 'because you are you'. What does that mean? Who am i? I can't believe they truly love all of me, that'd be pure madness, and it leaves me thinking - do they even know who i am?

[Michah]

Originally Posted by Abby

This topic reminds me of something that happened a few yrs ago. I was very depressed and my sister brought me back a little gift from the shop of a cartoon man holding up a sign that said 'some people make the world more special just by being in it'. At the time although i appreciated that the gift was a lovely thought, i honestly could not understand what the phrase meant because for me there are always reasons why a person is special/well thought of/loved etc. I'm ashamed to say it actually angered me because all i could think was - 'no that isn't true, what a gimiky lie!' - and i wished she'd not bought it for me. (yes i'm a horrid person.)Hi Abby.......no, you are not a horrid person.......I can understand how contrite that must have sounded to you at the time......and maybe that saying still does......and if a comment or saying sounds flippant, I often react with instinctive anger. I have little tolerance for seemingly "stupid" people or things, even if it is given with good intentions.......I guess it has something to do with "receptivity".......some days are better than others.

But I cannot fathom how unconditional love works. I don't understand how someone can love a person just for who they are. What does that even mean? And does it actually hold any real weight? Is unconditional love better than conditional love, because isn't it a better feeling to have earnt love than to have it always there and it be so, just because?Unconditional love is not the same as passive love.......IMO, there are still core values in love. Your core values, morals, needs and so forth must be respected and met. It is the ACT of loving that is unconditional.......it is to love for lovings sake. Now, when I speak of love, it does not always involve people. I use the term "unconditional love" broadly. It is love that cannot be any other way. It is love that transcends the physical.......it is love of the spirit, I guess.......and love of the SELF. I sometimes look at trees(I am a mad conservationist, and yes, I do hug trees). I never thought of how much I love nature since I was a kid. Now, nature does not love me back, nor does it care if I have core values or morals etc......in fact, it does not care that I am alive.......So how can I be so deeply in love with something that does not care if I exist? It is because I cannot be any other way......I love nature unconditionally because it is my passion, it is my life......nature teaches me HUMILITY in its unassuming majesty. So, is it conditional because it gives something back, like its beauty? No, because it does not understand condition......it just IS. I love it because I CAN. It matters little what it can give to me. I know that I love unconditionally when I am prepared to die for it. If I am not prepared to die for it, then it is not love for me. That is why I do not tell people or things that I love them very often. I cannot love in halves. That is not logical to me. People do not teach me humility on a general scale, in fact I am a raving misanthropist.......but the select few that I have chosen to love, teach me great humility and I respect them. But I do want to learn to love humanity for all its fear and violence and basic stupidity......just because I can. That is unconditional love. This is just my opinion sweets.......it has taken me a while to get to this point mind you..... I am still learning

I think it is very hard to self love if a person has never been shown that there is anything to love. I wonder if love is something that is innately in us from birth and something we all just need to 'find' again or is it something we are taught? Can unconditional love even be taught, or does believing it can be make it automatically conditional love? No!.......we are not born with love.....it is impossible as we are only born with instincts.......my belief is that love is a skill, more than an instinct.......it is a skill to love oneself......and the reason i think this is because love is taught by our parents......now, if your parents where like mine, they SEVERELY fell down in that area. "If you do not get top marks you are not good enough to love, and I(my mother) shall ignore you for days until you learn your lesson".......THAT is conditional love. So, I was taught that i would not be loved unless I was perfect, and watch out for flying objects and flying fists from mother dearest!! I learnt that i was not good enough. So my skill was self- loathing, not self-love.

I don't understand what is so bad about conditonal love. That is a love of choice. Surely that is better than unconditional love which i quite frankly don't understand because it has no basis/logic.There is still choice in unconditional love sweets.......I guess it depends on your definitions and far be it for me to question yours. And unconditional love has no logic for it is not a physical entitiy, it is unquantifiable, endless, it does not understand space or time......it is FUNDAMENTAL. A priest said to me recently after I had a dream of epic proportions(I will not go in to it here, but if you are inetersted I will PM you), "That maybe the dream was to start thinking from the heart as well as the head".......yep, I hear that.....I was ready to hear it

I know it is awful to say this because the people that tell me it really care and it sounds ungrateful especially as not many people do get the chance to hear it (perhaps i'm too indulged!) but i really don't like it when people say to me 'i love you' and when i ask why they just reply 'because you are you'. What does that mean? Who am i? I can't believe they truly love all of me, that'd be pure madness, and it leaves me thinking - do they even know who i am?

Maybe they don't know you......but is that important for you to believe that you are loved? I ask this not to antagonise you, babe.......I say this with great softness and respect, for I know that you question. If you don't know who you are, then people saying that will make you feel bottomless, overwhelmed, confused and downright creeped out(well I used to anyway)........and you would be lucky to get an "I love you" out of my mouth more than every few months. i do not think of it.......I do not feel like I need to say it, and am often uncomfortable around people who are very liberal with the use of that phrase......

Abby, I feel this may make you angry, so I apologise in advance if it does, but I can no sooner hold back my truth than fly to the moon.......in saying that, I deeply respect your truth........as usual, it has been a joy to talk to you......

Take good care, babe

Michah

[Michah]

Abby,

I just read my reply to you.......and I feel I must apologise.......I did not mean that your sister was stupid in giving you that saying......I hope you did not take offence....

I am properly chastised

Michah

[Abby]

No you've not offended me, if anything you said exactly what i thought at the time. It felt as though despite all my attempts to explain how bad i felt i was again misunderstood. I have huge issues surrounding being misunderstood. To be honest you do sound a lot like me, I have zero tolerance for anything i think is 'stupid' and unfortunately will let ppl know how completely ridiculous they are. On this occasion though, it just left me feeling more alone. I have more understanding now that my sister had little comprehension at the time of what depression meant because she was still young too and was doing her best to help, and it means something that she cares enough to try.

I think where the problem may lie for me is that i have no idea what my core values, morals or needs are. I don't understand how people can love me for 'who i am' when i don't even know who i am, and what i do know i'm not 100% satisfied with. So their words just feel like a lie.

I don't get why you would love for the sake of loving. It all seems rather pointless and energy expending to me! I really don't understand what you mean when you say 'i love because i can'. I don't think i'm an unloving person, but i don't love willy nilly (haha i can't believe i just used the phrase willy nilly!). I have a terrifying paranoia of thinking specific thoughts just in case i have some power to make them become true (as if i'm that important...). So i do understand what you mean about it not being love unless you are prepared to die for it, i just try not to think that phrase...just in case. Ironically i'm not willing to test out my theory of unconditional love being a complete lie!

But I do want to learn to love humanity for all its fear and violence and basic stupidity......just because I can. That is unconditional love. This is just my opinion sweets.......it has taken me a while to get to this point mind you..... I am still learning

Why, why, why? Why on earth would you want to learn to love fear, violence and most significantly stupidity and ignorance? What would that accomplish? Isn't it better to fight it?

And unconditional love has no logic for it is not a physical entitiy, it is unquantifiable, endless, it does not understand space or time......it is FUNDAMENTAL. A priest said to me recently after I had a dream of epic proportions(I will not go in to it here, but if you are inetersted I will PM you), "That maybe the dream was to start thinking from the heart as well as the head".......yep, I hear that.....I was ready to hear it

Yeh i don't get that, if it isn't quantifiable how do you know it is real and not one big lie?....Although i guess maybe it comes under that whole if you feel it then it is true for you, even if it isn't universally true? I'd be interested in hearing about the dream.

Yes it is very important that people know who i am otherwise i don't believe they can love me. For a very long time i didn't believe in love at all because my rational was that someone could only love the parts of the other person that they saw (because everyone changes behaviours/opinions/demeanors based upon who they're with and where they are), so really the most that they could say is that they love the part of a person that they know, not the person in his/her entirety! I feel that people who love me now would stop loving me if i showed them the side of me that wants to collapse. They go on and on about my strength, i do wonder if i showed them all of it would they reject me?

No, what you have said doesn't make me angry, i respect your opinion although perhaps if this was a real life conversation i was having with you i'd probably be trying very hard to make you admit that you were wrong (i think you know what i mean when i say that!) Sorry i boycotted the thread.

[iamtwilight]

a counting crows quote that i think fits this topic perfectly:

"how much longer will it take to cure this?
just to cure it cause i can't ignore it
if it's love it makes me wanna turn around and face me
but i don't know nothing 'bout love..."

and Abby, imho i don't think you boycotted the thread, these discussions thrive on replies



twilight

[BrokenNBeautiful]

This is a great topic!

Professionals and laymen alike have told me, to my consternation, how difficult it will be to be in relationships cause of my bpd. As a result, I am more afraid than ever to reach out to others.

Michah, your words cheer me. They lift me up.

thank you.

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

And yes, i am learning to love myself---cause who else will?

And if love comes from within, then maybe it will come out and then back at me.

Billi

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by billi_leli

And if love comes from within, then maybe it will come out and then back at me.

Some things are maybes,,this one is not.

It simply will...



Lenny

Hi Michah,

When I saw you put up this thread I said to myself . Oh No .. and why does having Borderline personality make a person so special in the area of not being able to love...

Isn't this an across the board of the human race effort to understand and question oneself? Can you quantify ones abilty to love as if to strap one up to a detector.

In Eckart Tolle in his Book "The New Earth" Eckhart discuses every angel of the ego and love in relationships . things many of us already know but difficut to put into practice. Or evn the need to practice takes away for the act of loving.

We are Love period. everyone.

Theres no need to point out one special group as not being able to love.

Time and again threads are started on forums of those who separte them selves from those having the symptoms of Borderine personality disorder .
and they are always in the thread of

"Can a BPD love.?"

which is so very depersonalizing to refer to others as BPD .

A label ..separateness . The egos need to be right or better or more than."the others" .

Your so open and forthcomming . But I fear for those who are so honest and speack about themselves . That this will just feed those eyes that are hungering for thier righteous indignation.

I know your above that I am not. By now you know I cringe at labels always have have resentment of those who do use them .

comes from my being bullied .

but on to one of your many questions.. you sound a bit like me when I get typing goig from one thought to another rapid fire as you can see in this paragrah.

I ask all of you, why do you need to be loved when you are learning to love yourselves? Love can ONLY come from within........I am not saying that we should all live like hermits(oh that would be good!) and never seek the company of others, but why do we put OURSELVES down when others do not love US?

Well I think if we don't let ourselves be loved we will possiblt dry up so its okay to want and need love while loving ourselves .Im not learning to love myself . I really do love so many things about my heart. I've been blessed in that area I feel on equal footing with most individuals in the love department.

Its when I meet someone who judges me and makes me out to be non loving or falling short of the mark that I struggle .or fits me in a box .

Or I buy into thier beliefs . You ask the question why do we or others put ourselves down when others do not love us.

lie a battered wife when you live with someone who beats you up physically or emotionally its not difficult to belive it after awhile.

depends on what kind of putting down it is ..

here is an example of what I consider to be putting down of a person with BPD and could make it harder for those who think they are incappable.

its a story that says a person with BPD is like an old black crow .

I actualy saw a dead crow at the foot of my driveway last week and this troy came back to me I was haunted by it and hurt deep inside.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...highlight=crow

Its a well crafted story, I had always thought that but there was this nagging in the back of my mind long ago regarding it .

the part refering to people who have BPD are like this old crow who feeds on carion I find to be hurtful in its rendition. Thats what bothered me and took a while to see this.

Its this sort of wording that can undermine someone if read and help them to feel bad . And if you already put yourself down it doesn't take much to go down farther .

When this sort of thing happens when a person sets you up as being a person who cannot love .

You have to go back and review ones life and look for the 95% of the times you are loving in private when the other can not see you or see into your quiet heart..

Patricia