[*Defeated*]

Please, please bear with me … and feel free to quit reading whenever you feel it necessary. I’m not writing for anyone’s entertainment or enjoyment, but for my own release. I often wonder why it is that I embrace this emptiness, why I push away relationships – romantic, friendship, family – hell, even coworkers. Is it that I actively retreat or is that those in my life become so frustrated with my empty promises, flat affect, sarcasm and emotional distance that they just want to be done with me and my issues? If that is so, believe me, I completely understand – I wouldn’t want to be near me, in a friendship with, a romantic relationship with or blood relative of myself. Those who think it’s possible are doomed for disappointment. Do I still long for intimacy, the closeness that allows comforting humility and that someone who can look at me and “just know.” Absolutely!! True intimacy is the one thing that I crave from deep within my soul yet is also the one thing can’t seem to accomplish or grab a hold of. I lack the ability in that area and it is almost unbearable to me. I don’t expect any responses from anyone, though if you have even a glimpse into what I feel right now, I ask you to please respond.

[my3sns]

Just want you to know your not alone. I was only diagnosed with BPD recently although i have suspected it for a long time. Its still a hard pill to swallow. However in finally hearing the dx , so much made sense to me finally. I wonder if it is possible for you to get some good info on your dx and share it with some of the people in your life that mean a lot to you and you feel you can trust. It may help them understand you a little better.... as far as the who i am thing .........im clueless too , but hopeful!

[*Defeated*]

Thanks for your reply. You ideas are good; however, I have been a silent sufferer for years and do a great job acting "normal." I'm able to put on a fake happy face and so most of the people in my life have no idea of any of my struggles. I function well in society yet hide this boiling mass of frustration and torment within myself. I don't want sympathy, attention, people who care hurting for me and all that. No sense in anyone else having to endure the suffering or watch me as I do. I just want to feel better.

Though I'm not happy about my recent BPD diagnosis, it also put things in perspective for me and answered many questions. I guess it linked many aspects of my life together that individually had been tormenting me. So, the insight there makes me feel better. I know I need to reach out and accept help and support of those who care about me, I'm just afraid that it would annoy me and I would push them away even more.

Of course, I say all of this now yet in a few hours or the next day my mood will be completely different and I'll either want full embrace or to live in a cave. Just not sure that anyone else needs to experience the roller coaster that is my life.

Defeated Oh, what you said resonated deep within my gut. In fact that is where I felt your pain. It's a familiar feeling, believe me. That yearning for intimacy and yet............ knowing that it gets pushed away, by you and others.

You can read and read and read to understand this, which is a great start then after that......... what's next? I took it upon myself to learn Dialectal Behavior Therapy, it's specifically designed for these symptoms. It's symptom management through learning skills. This is one suggestion for you that has worked for me, not all the time, mind-you, but some of the time.

I used to say to myself......... what's the use, it will all end badly........... now I say............. I'll try and use my skills. For me, it's all about feeling intense emotions, immediately loosing my perspective and doing something impulsively which has it's consequences and usually it's a negative consequence.

There is another book that I wanted to recommend "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. It taught me that it's okay to protect yourself from people that you feel are unsafe. So, I turned it around, it's okay to protect myself if I don't feel safe. This book has helped me with boundaries, so I can distance myself when I am not feeling I can control my intense emotions.

You are an excellent writer Defeated !! And thank you for your help with my kitty too

[agma]

I completely understand how you feel. I was lucky enough to find and marry a very supportive guy. We have been married for 4 years. I still struggle a lot with friends, relatives, and coworkers, but I will admit, it has been very helpful to me to have someone who is so supportive and that understands. Julst know that you are not alone.

[my3sns]

Just thought i should add ... no one in my real life even had a clue about my struggles either, i function in society quite well, and keep the mass of feelings deep inside.... but i have only very recently showed a small part of the real me .. but honestly i am normally whatever or whoever i am expected/needed to be at that very moment

[*Defeated*]

Originally Posted by my3sns

Just thought i should add ... no one in my real life even had a clue about my struggles either, i function in society quite well, and keep the mass of feelings deep inside.... but i have only very recently showed a small part of the real me .. but honestly i am normally whatever or whoever i am expected/needed to be at that very moment

OMG, it's ironic that you say you are whoever you're expected to be. I was just telling my therapist the same thing. It's almost like I have different costumes to wear for different people/events. I can easily mold myself into the "appropriate" person to keep myself hidden. And obviously, this is a huge contributing factor to my feeling fake and like people are going to realize that I'm awful and not who I say I am. Well, hell - I don't even know who I am ...

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by *Defeated*

I often wonder why it is that I embrace this emptiness, why I push away relationships – romantic, friendship, family – hell, even coworkers.

Could it be that you are afraid of getting swallowed up by them if they get too close? Something like that would be the case for me. You have a right to define how close people get.

[*Defeated*]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Could it be that you are afraid of getting swallowed up by them if they get too close? Something like that would be the case for me. You have a right to define how close people get.

I honestly don't know. My mind has a way of playing tricks but I feel like my avoidance of my family is because I don't want them to know my struggles or want their support. I think support from them would make me uncomfortable and I'm not sure why. Do I care so much about them that I don't want them to hurt for me or do I really just not want them involved. I believe the latter but my family is close (parents still together, 2 siblings) so I'm not sure why I "think" I feel that way. I can't really trust anything in my head because I can't decipher what is actually true in regards to my feelings. I've spent years suppressing and pushing feeling away so I guess I'm a little blunted in that area. Who knows, may I'll figure it out?!

Thanks for your insight.

Interesting concept, once again !! This thread rocks. Maybe that is why I am a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Could explain why people avoid me, they see I'm... different, not like .... them.... maybe not safe? It seems, over the years, people find a card to send to me that says I walk to the tune of a different drummer. I never thought of changing to disguise. Then there is the dissociative factor that I battle with, that takes away any element of fitting in.

I used to be defined by my career, that was who I was for 30+ years. When I became disabled, then I lost my sense of self and went afloat in a sea of uncertainty. So, I get your comment that you have no clue who you are.

Question for you............ what would happen to you if you didn't wear the different costumes for different people and events and would you be able to select your own costume that defines who you truly are?

Originally Posted by *Defeated*

OMG, it's ironic that you say you are whoever you're expected to be. I was just telling my therapist the same thing. It's almost like I have different costumes to wear for different people/events. I can easily mold myself into the "appropriate" person to keep myself hidden. And obviously, this is a huge contributing factor to my feeling fake and like people are going to realize that I'm awful and not who I say I am. Well, hell - I don't even know who I am ...

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by June_Bug

what would happen to you if you didn't wear the different costumes for different people and events and would you be able to select your own costume that defines who you truly are?

How about finding an invisibility cloak -- or be like The Shadow in old radio programs, where nobody could see you, even though you would be the genuine article still? I mean, you are not obliged to turn over everything about you to everyone...

[Perna]

I think it was easy, for me, because I was so self-involved (in my struggles) to think I hid well from others; when, if you think about it, this dx is not a shy/blushing violet sort of dx? How did you get the dx if some outside person didn't give it to you? Might not have taken them very long to give it, either

Embracing the struggle and struggling with it openly was a better way for me to cope and come to some understanding of how it was with me and how others saw me, etc. We think we look out of our eyes and see how things are, clearly, but one of the biggest problems I have is "reality checking", checking to make sure what I see meshes well with what others see. All of that is done through communication, me telling another what I think/feel and the other responding, both to what I think feel and sharing themselves and what they think feel. One cannot "fix" anything alone, without an honest interchange; just looking at something or reading a book, thinking one understands, that's all happening in our heads, not in the "real" world. I have found for me, one has to engage in the real world where the other people are doing the same, in order to have a real, full, "complete" life.

Yes, but Perna, reality in our minds is "our" reality and without it where would we begin? I have had people challenge my perception of my reality and all it did to me was set up in a state of confusion....... who's right. To base your reality on other's opinions is not an accurate picture of who you are. It's their opinion. It's a judgment, not a true fact. There are no emphiracle studies being conducted at the moment you ask to prove they are 100% correct. Take for example, the old saying.... three people see an auto accident and all three see it happening in a different way.

I'm not disputing your definition of a "reality check". It's always a good thing to ask and check things out to see how the other person is feeling. What I am getting at is that to base your own reality upon how others feel about you will only create a false sense of self. It can also set one up for feelings of being minimized, muted, erased, crazy making, etc.

I'm glad this has worked for you Perna, I really am. For me, my perception of reality was soo challenged growing up that I became dependent upon how others saw me. What was mirrored back to me was that I was not "okay".

I guess we all have to pick and choose just who's reality we trust and want to validate. Ultimately, we are responsible and in doing so we have to accept the consequences, if any.

Originally Posted by Perna

I think it was easy, for me, because I was so self-involved (in my struggles) to think I hid well from others; when, if you think about it, this dx is not a shy/blushing violet sort of dx? How did you get the dx if some outside person didn't give it to you? Might not have taken them very long to give it, either

Embracing the struggle and struggling with it openly was a better way for me to cope and come to some understanding of how it was with me and how others saw me, etc. We think we look out of our eyes and see how things are, clearly, but one of the biggest problems I have is "reality checking", checking to make sure what I see meshes well with what others see. All of that is done through communication, me telling another what I think/feel and the other responding, both to what I think feel and sharing themselves and what they think feel. One cannot "fix" anything alone, without an honest interchange; just looking at something or reading a book, thinking one understands, that's all happening in our heads, not in the "real" world. I have found for me, one has to engage in the real world where the other people are doing the same, in order to have a real, full, "complete" life.

[*Defeated*]

Let me see if I can ummm ... explain myself a little more. (Note: this could end up a jumbled mess of words, I'll try my best). So, I'm asked how things would be if I discarded my masks and let people see me for who I am. Well, this is a loaded question. To start, I cannot show anyone the "real" me because I have never met her. Up until this point in my life (31 years), everything that I thought I was, my personality, values - everything has influenced or has been influenced by dysfunctionality. So with or without the dysfunctional mechanism, I don't know. Sad, yes I know. It wasn't until recently that I was given the BPD diagnosis and I had SO many dysfunctional aspects of my life funnel down into basically one diagnosis. So, at this point, if someone asked me who I am ... my only answer is Borderline. I don't have anything else. So, do I take down the shield and let people see a whacked out nut-job that NO-ONE in my life will recognize?! Hmm, I say no.

Additionally, to clarify what I mean when I say I morph into whatever person a given situation, relationship, employee, even grocery shopper ..... "should be." I am aware and cognizant of what my role "should be" at any given time. Other than with myself (and my dogs), I play the role of "normal." A "normal" that fits in quite well wherever I am. If I want to and/or choose to, I am easy to talk to, funny, sarcastic, thoughtful, appropriate, considerate .... you know, the basics. I know what my role is "supposed" to be. But I fake "myself" in every aspect of my life. If BPD is what I will ultimately be defined as, then I'll let her free; however, I hold out hope that there is something true beyond that part of me that I don't want tarnished by initially being BPD in other's minds.

I hope all that makes sense, and I apologize for all the quotation marks around so many words!

Hi Defeated I do soo understand what you are saying. Everything was influenced through the eyes of my dysfunctional family of origin too.

I keep hearing from different sources that "you are not your diagnosis" and yet........ I can understand where you are coming from.

Originally Posted by *Defeated*

Let me see if I can ummm ... explain myself a little more. (Note: this could end up a jumbled mess of words, I'll try my best). So, I'm asked how things would be if I discarded my masks and let people see me for who I am. Well, this is a loaded question. To start, I cannot show anyone the "real" me because I have never met her. Up until this point in my life (31 years), everything that I thought I was, my personality, values - everything has influenced or has been influenced by dysfunctionality. So with or without the dysfunctional mechanism, I don't know. Sad, yes I know. It wasn't until recently that I was given the BPD diagnosis and I had SO many dysfunctional aspects of my life funnel down into basically one diagnosis. So, at this point, if someone asked me who I am ... my only answer is Borderline. I don't have anything else. So, do I take down the shield and let people see a whacked out nut-job that NO-ONE in my life will recognize?! Hmm, I say no.

Additionally, to clarify what I mean when I say I morph into whatever person a given situation, relationship, employee, even grocery shopper ..... "should be." I am aware and cognizant of what my role "should be" at any given time. Other than with myself (and my dogs), I play the role of "normal." A "normal" that fits in quite well wherever I am. If I want to and/or choose to, I am easy to talk to, funny, sarcastic, thoughtful, appropriate, considerate .... you know, the basics. I know what my role is "supposed" to be. But I fake "myself" in every aspect of my life. If BPD is what I will ultimately be defined as, then I'll let her free; however, I hold out hope that there is something true beyond that part of me that I don't want tarnished by initially being BPD in other's minds.

I hope all that makes sense, and I apologize for all the quotation marks around so many words!

[Perna]

Originally Posted by June_Bug

Yes, but Perna, reality in our minds is "our" reality and without it where would we begin? I have had people challenge my perception of my reality and all it did to me was set up in a state of confusion....... who's right. To base your reality on other's opinions is not an accurate picture of who you are. It's their opinion. It's a judgment, not a true fact.

Yes, we have our reality and others have their reality but to get along in the world, it helps if we go with the consensus. You can see the sun as purple if you want and argue with everyone that the sun is purple or you can accept the sun is yellow but that you see it as purple. You then have to learn if you understand "purple" and "yellow" as others do or are literally seeing purple when others are seeing yellow. For me, I usually come to understand that I was not seeing "correctly" and what I thought and called purple was actually what everyone else sees and calls yellow. But just insisting that the sun is purple won't help you get along with others or "in the world"?

Life is about experiencing and learning. Often we take what we have learned, only at home in our youth, out into the wider world only to find that our parents were warped in their teachings? My stepmother was an anxious woman so very controlling and I was an anxious child and learned to be controlling from her but do I want to be controlling? All behavior is learned! There isn't anything you do or way you think that you didn't have to first learn somewhere.

I left home at 22 because my stepmother called me "stupid" one time too many. Fortunately, I "knew" in my own reality that I was not stupid but I could not "prove" it because I only had my stepmother's lists of proofs I'd learned! People who did what I had done were "stupid" (or they wouldn't have done it)! The problem was, there was no room in my stepmother's world view for "mistakes". One was not allowed to make mistakes. Making mistakes was equated to "stupid". So, I had to go out into the greater world and into 30 years of therapy to learn about mistakes and how they are not stupid, nor am I (and I can prove it :-)

Find someone (my first someone was my therapist(s)) you trust and work with them hammering out what you "think" is true against what they say/think. I was anxious and thought the "sky was falling" until I realized that my T was a very calm, quiet person (like I wanted to be like) and my logic told me if she acted that way than either the sky was not falling or she was crazy/deluded to be so calm! I decided to throw my thinking/faith in the sky-is-not-falling category and from then on, I could use that Real, personal experience to judge other scary experiences in my life and see that I could make my way through them and not have the sky fall on me :-)

[mala]

Im guessing its to do with the bpd. Ive always liked to have lots of friends and to be honest I do like people, but I shut off from them. I think its because of sensitvity and not to be hurt. It has meant being terribly lonely, a chronic emptiness, and it difficult for people to meet that. I mean Im very sensitive person, then people can be a bit afraid of neediness - not sure if that is bpd but I think so.

[protector1973]

identity is a core issue with bdp sufferers, we are defined by different things, some people identify themselves with there jobs, some people there hobbies, guess are true indentys are constantly being renewed by our actions and thoughts all the time, gandi said when we do what we say and how feel is the same thats when we,ve got harmony. something like that.

[*Defeated*]

June-Bug and Perna,

You both pose very valid points; however, from slightly different angles. When the object/idea/belief is subjective in nature (everyone should go to college), it is absolutely okay to have your own view of things/the world, etc.

If the object/idea/belief is objective (the sun is yellow), I do think it warrants to investigate how the rest of the world sees these things. Obviously and without doubt, there is a continuum here with vast amounts of grey areas so this is the best I can do for now

[Forgive77]

Originally Posted by *Defeated*

Let me see if I can ummm ... explain myself a little more. (Note: this could end up a jumbled mess of words, I'll try my best). So, I'm asked how things would be if I discarded my masks and let people see me for who I am. Well, this is a loaded question. To start, I cannot show anyone the "real" me because I have never met her. Up until this point in my life (31 years), everything that I thought I was, my personality, values - everything has influenced or has been influenced by dysfunctionality. So with or without the dysfunctional mechanism, I don't know. Sad, yes I know. It wasn't until recently that I was given the BPD diagnosis and I had SO many dysfunctional aspects of my life funnel down into basically one diagnosis. So, at this point, if someone asked me who I am ... my only answer is Borderline. I don't have anything else. So, do I take down the shield and let people see a whacked out nut-job that NO-ONE in my life will recognize?! Hmm, I say no.

Additionally, to clarify what I mean when I say I morph into whatever person a given situation, relationship, employee, even grocery shopper ..... "should be." I am aware and cognizant of what my role "should be" at any given time. Other than with myself (and my dogs), I play the role of "normal." A "normal" that fits in quite well wherever I am. If I want to and/or choose to, I am easy to talk to, funny, sarcastic, thoughtful, appropriate, considerate .... you know, the basics. I know what my role is "supposed" to be. But I fake "myself" in every aspect of my life. If BPD is what I will ultimately be defined as, then I'll let her free; however, I hold out hope that there is something true beyond that part of me that I don't want tarnished by initially being BPD in other's minds.

I hope all that makes sense, and I apologize for all the quotation marks around so many words!

It makes a lot of sense to me.

This is my first time posting in the BPD forum...I've put it off...sigh...I should have come here too right away, same as the BP site.

I ask who am I? and what am I going to do? every day. I'm not really even sure what I like some days. After reading this...I think I have in the past, put on different faces or costumes for people. For a while I was in an I don't give a care what people say, and I'm going to say what I think phase...that got me into trouble. I'm not a grandma yet...so I apparently can't pull that one off at 33 year old. I thought having triplets kinda gave me some leeway...but not. How do you find out who you are? How do you make a self? That's what I want to know.

[*Defeated*]

Originally Posted by Forgive77

How do you find out who you are? How do you make a self? That's what I want to know.

I'll let you know if I ever find out.

[Forgive77]

I'll be waiting.