[SophiaG]

For example, every time I mention I am depressed and explain why I feel my pain is minimized by the other party. So i just say I am depressed and don't say why, if i mention it at all.

The other day I told a friend online tht i remembered something sexual my grandfather did to me and the person told me "well, at least he didn't touch you. (as in fondling)"

Uhm.

Thanks...

[lizardlady]

Sophia, I don't think it's just you. In my experience most people don't know how to respond to other people's pain. Because they don't know how to respond they ten to pat you on the head and say "there, there." I'm sorry someone minimized what happened to you. When it comes to abuse there's no "worse" or "better" abuse. It all hurts.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

For example, every time I mention I am depressed and explain why I feel my pain is minimized by the other party. So i just say I am depressed and don't say why, if i mention it at all.

The other day I told a friend online tht i remembered something sexual my grandfather did to me and the person told me "well, at least he didn't touch you. (as in fondling)"

Uhm.

Thanks...

For me it depends on the person and the setting. Along with that, is the way the emotional pain is expressed, which isn't necessarily (frequently it is not) expressed directly. I am struggling to deal with someone five days a week who is in quite a bit of emotional pain but her denial and poor coping skills are so great any conversation with her is like trying to carry a horse on my back. Do I minimize her pain by acting as though I don't know what is wrong with her? I ask myself if it would help her to point out the oh-so-obvious. And I also ask if it would help me. Maybe to the first, definitely no to the second. What did you think your friend could do with the information you shared? I think there is significant benefit in sharing our troubles with those qualified and interested in helping us. But I think it is counter-productive to share with those who can't handle the information, would use it against you, or make light of it. I'll close with saying that recently I attempted to ask for help with something that is giving me significant distress and received a smirking reply that made fun of my situation. Not everyone online is interested in helping others. I hope what I have shared helps; and I am sympathetic to your depression since I also suffer deeply from depression.

[Perna]

I think most people are listening and interpreting for themselves so what we say, they apply it to their own lives and come up with a response that they would give themselves if they were in that situation. Someone not comfortable with crying, for example, is likely to be the one that says, "Don't cry! There's nothing to cry about" because they are uncomfortable; we all tend to make things about us I think. We don't know what to say because we don't want the other person's difficulty/tragedy so "push away" from it.

[Open Eyes]

(((Sophia)))),

I agree with the other posters. I have found that many people just don't understand mental illness and they can get uncomfortable addressing it. People tend to get unconfortable anyway with anyone who is different somehow, not just with mental illness. And if you try to get understanding and advice from someone who is healthy and truely doesn't experience any kind of mental illness the can think that you may be simply just using it for an excuse or to gain attention.

Unfortunately the average person just has no education about what depression means, that it is real and can sometimes cause a lot of difficult in the ability to just manage the day. I think that is sad because there are ways to simply recognize the person struggling, validate them and help them calm down and work on focusing again.

Open Eyes

[Shanzy]

What would, in your opinion, be a better response?

[touchingsaturn]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((Sophia)))),

I agree with the other posters. I have found that many people just don't understand mental illness and they can get uncomfortable addressing it...

Unfortunately the average person just has no education about what depression means, that it is real and can sometimes cause a lot of difficult in the ability to just manage the day. I think that is sad because there are ways to simply recognize the person struggling, validate them and help them calm down and work on focusing again.

Open Eyes

i realized a long time ago (much to my dismay at the time) that while my friends did truly and deeply care for me... they were ill-equipped to process or respond effecctively when i expressed the inner turmoil i was experiencing... it took me a long time to figure out that it really wasn't their fault... and that it wasn't an indication that they loved me any less just because they couldn't produce a comforting/reassuring/whatever i needed at the time response to my pain and suffering...

i completely agree with what open eyes wrote - most people are not well educated on the subject, and even those who are educated may not have personal experience that would prove relative to your situation... while it is disheartening to reach out to a friend & basically get a pat on the back & a "it'll get better" or "don't give up"... the truth is (for the people who truly care most for you), they're doing the best they can with what they've got... which is, at best, a limited understanding of your pain...

of course, you also have to realize that there are some people in this world who are simply unable to process and adequately respond to anything that they are not currently experiencing themselves... that's just the way it is with some folks...

i sincerely hope that you are able to find outlets for your emotions (including, but not limited to, these forums), where you will be accepted & can have your feelings validated while also receiving the encouragement you desire & need to live the healthiest life you can...

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

I think that we live in a culture that doesn't value sensitivity to people's emotional pain, or loss. We have trite responses, but don't encourage real support around these issues. I share your feelings.

[Open Eyes]

Actually Shanzy has a good question. Can you answer that question? Because as I struggle myself and did complain and even appologize, at first I didn't quite know what others could do to respond to me that was helpful/supportive. So I have to consider Shanzy's question and at least talk to my husband who is around me the most "how" to respond to me in a way that was helpful.

If you think about it, we go to therapists who are knowledgeable about whatever we struggle with and they are trained to respond to us in ways that allow us to be kind to ourselves and work on healing/overcoming/working through our struggles with MI.
But the average person? Well, they don't truely know or are trained to understand the different MI's and disorders. And people naturally consider anything that is weak or different about others to be something to try to avoid somehow. And unless a person is familiar with struggling with MI/disorders that often have a component of depression to them, they are truely not going to be able to effectively connect to it in a sympathetic way.

One of the reasons PC is a fairly gentle supportive atmosphere, is because most of the members can relate to the struggle with some kind of MI/disorder and in that respond with respect, caring and support.

If we consider that pretty much all human beings are raised to pay attention, behave, stop whining, get of your butt and pitch in, punch in the time clock do your job and punch out, here is what you are supposed to know so go do it. And lets face it as we all grow up and decide we may not want to do something I am sure most children, fake a tummy ache, head ache to try to escape a school day, test, and get attention somehow. So the average person is programed to basically "get over it and deal". And often because we all know there are lots of ways of faking illness to escape from having to do something, that is one thing many think of first about someone who is needy in some way. And the flip side is that if someone truely IS needy, they do know that others can and often do not often consider that they are REALLY struggling.

I know myself that when I truely began to struggle my family was actually pretty mean to me with a "get over it sentiment". And the more I struggled and began to learn about the reasons why I struggled, I truely felt that other people would not truely understand the depths of how I was genuinely struggling. And yes, I have depression in the disorder that ails me as well. And the truth is that most people who are genuinely suffering do feel like they are alone and will not be understood and can even feel guilty because of that, I know I do.

So, it is a mixed bag when it comes to wanting other people to respond to us in a soothing supportive manner Sophia. The truth is that unless we talk to someone else that can relate or knows the struggle like a therapist, we are going to be disappointed by the responses we get from other people.

So Shanzy does have a good question. If we don't know how we would like others to respond to us, then we don't even have the ability to try to educate the ones that DO want to respond better.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

[shezbut]

Open Eyes made some very thoughtful remarks about how we need to learn what exactly we do need from others in support.

I think that some people are naturally more in tune with other people's pain ~ people like these do listen to our troubles and offer a hug, friendship and caring, etc. Lots of nurses and some doctors fall into this category. I also believe that "regular people", like many people also fighting MI are in this category as well.

Becoming in tune with the pain of others can also be learned. Many people are open to learning the skill, others aren't. For instance, some doctors don't feel very sympathetic. They may treat our illnesses, but they aren't always real caring and understanding.

There is also a portion of society that really doesn't give a hoot about others. While they are a minority, it still exists. And that's hard to accept ~ especially when you're one who has always cared for others.

That's my opinion anyway.

[SophiaG]

How would i like people to be supportive?

- Believe in me, don't get angry at me, hate me and then give up on me. You're just reflecting how I treat myself when you do this.

- Don't tell me how I should change and that I need to change or else. I am already my biggest critic and it makes it worse when others echo my negative sentiments to myself, doubling my sense of low-self esteem.

- Don't tell me i'm oversenstive, need to grow up, am emotional pollution or need to suck it up. These things make me feel like you don't care about how I feel, and make me feel all alone.

[Open Eyes]

(((Sophia)))),

Oh yes I hear you. But here is the problem. Most people do NOT know how to reach out they way you want them too. And the other side of the scale, is most people that need help, don't know how to ask for it either. It is a sad state we are in all around.
About the only person who can even give you what you need? Well that is another person who can hear you, has been there and can sympathize. Well, guess what, have you noticed me dance around posting here? Gee, one would think I am much stronger than I am right? Or even that I know more somehow too, or maybe I am a know it all. Well, what they cant see is that I DO KNOW PAIN and I ALSO KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE INVALIDATED FOR IT. And yes I suffer too, and I reach out and offer anything I can that I have found that can help me get by.

Well, I do give a lot and what I have noticed is that often that CAN teach others to be good takers. And then when I can't give and fall down, wow, do you think that other people jump up to the plate for me? No, they want me to get better so I can go back to giving to them. Oh, gosh, sometimes one is damed if they do and damed if they don't. But there have been moments in my life when someone did give and it was then that I truely realized how important it is. Not everyone learns that and often what you are experiencing is other people who don't have much more self esteem than you do.

And yet the other thing that can happen is that a person got all they needed growing up and does have a lot of self esteem, but they lack the empathy to be able to validate your pain as well.

We sure have a mixed bag going on in this world Sophia sorry to say. Those that have enough heart to reach out like the way you need are few and far between and they often sit across from you in therapy, and sometimes they are good at it and sometimes they are not.

Somehow Sophia you have to find your way to stop picking on yourself as you say and give yourself permission to learn how to build your self esteem and that you CAN do that if you work at it. And I am not invalidating you at all by reaching out to you with this message. I believe you struggle and I believe you need support too and that you actually deserve it. But it has to start with YOU doing it for YOU. I am working on that as well Sophia, it takes time.

(((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Sophia,
I just wanted to add something I may not have covered as well. When it comes to interacting with other people, in this area as well as other areas, people do what they KNOW. So when someone uses those poor responses, that is often what is dealt to them to when they struggle. It is a sad fact but unless someone experiences the right kind of nurturing when they are growing up, they just don't know how to nurture themselves. And they can even get testy about it too without realizing it.

Talk about self esteem, some people when asked to give out attention and understanding can be down right nasty too. And that is because it can touch a raw fact about their own lack of self esteem in doing it right or effectively. And many people dont reach out in fear that if they are asked to give more than just regonigiton itself, they honestly don't know what to do.

When it comes to self esteem, it can get very complicated and there are a lot of people who have problems with it and yet just glide along by the skin on their chiny, chin, chin.

Something to think about Sophia

Open Eyes

[touchingsaturn]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

How would i like people to be supportive?

- Believe in me, don't get angry at me, hate me and then give up on me. You're just reflecting how I treat myself when you do this.

- Don't tell me how I should change and that I need to change or else. I am already my biggest critic and it makes it worse when others echo my negative sentiments to myself, doubling my sense of low-self esteem.

- Don't tell me i'm oversenstive, need to grow up, am emotional pollution or need to suck it up. These things make me feel like you don't care about how I feel, and make me feel all alone.

just out of curiousity.. have you ever talked to those closest to you (the ones you need true support from the most) about what you really need from them?? i know sometimes people aren't open to the conversation.. but it's worth a shot.. it took me years to "train" my mom that sometimes i just need to talk... and she doesn't need to try to fix everything... but just listen...

i think most of us reading this specific post of yours would agree that the type of support you are looking for is what we all are universally hoping to find in one another... sometimes we are inevitably quite sorely disappointed with what we find in humanity.. and other times, we reach out & are left standing completely in awe of true compassion and empathy most eloquently expressed..

while it SUCKS, we should expect and prepare ourselves for disappointment more often than awe... after all we all are imperfect, incredibly human, and totally fallible.. and so are the people we are reaching out to in our times of greatest need...

[BrokenNBeautiful]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((Sophia)))),

I agree with the other posters. I have found that many people just don't understand mental illness and they can get uncomfortable addressing it. People tend to get unconfortable anyway with anyone who is different somehow, not just with mental illness. And if you try to get understanding and advice from someone who is healthy and truely doesn't experience any kind of mental illness the can think that you may be simply just using it for an excuse or to gain attention.

Open Eyes

I agree too.

Many people don't even like any kind of emotional issue. They do seem to think that we are deliberately trying to annoy them by being upset.

I now have difficulty even crying when it's appropriate, esp. after my aunt died because I was so afraid ppl thought I was just "being dramatic" and not "manning up" to my grief (or woman-ing).

thanks,

Billi

[dub_phantom]

I know personally I have a lot of problems with comforting and helping people and it really bothers me... I rarely ever seem to know the right thing to say. People will tell me something horrible that happened to them and I never know what to say besides "That really sucks! I'm so sorry!" or some other stupid response like that. I actually really beat myself up for it because I am very keen to others' emotions and want to help people that are down so badly, I just don't know how. I'm sure a lot of other people have a similar problem like a lot of posters have said - what do they do? And everyone is different. For example, when I'm really down about something specific I stop talking altogether and avoid people because I really honestly don't know how to talk to anyone about my emotions or personal problems. So oddly enough for me, I've found it actually helps when people keep digging to try to get it out of me where as I think most people would get irritated and angry.

[SophiaG]

Originally Posted by dub_phantom

I know personally I have a lot of problems with comforting and helping people and it really bothers me... I rarely ever seem to know the right thing to say. People will tell me something horrible that happened to them and I never know what to say besides "That really sucks! I'm so sorry!" or some other stupid response like that. I actually really beat myself up for it because I am very keen to others' emotions and want to help people that are down so badly, I just don't know how. I'm sure a lot of other people have a similar problem like a lot of posters have said - what do they do? And everyone is different. For example, when I'm really down about something specific I stop talking altogether and avoid people because I really honestly don't know how to talk to anyone about my emotions or personal problems. So oddly enough for me, I've found it actually helps when people keep digging to try to get it out of me where as I think most people would get irritated and angry.

I think you are wonderful for just caring. You don't need words to care.

[Scubado86]

After giving up everything to move half way across the world to support my boyfriend's career, I told him I was a bit depressed (no job, home all day) Which was something I knew would happen. After a few tearful conversations, he finally told me he doesn't see eye to eye with people who have depressing feelings (this is a very generalized sum of what he said). It hurt so much worse then the pain I was initially having that it actually shook me out of the depression and into "I am going to Kick some @ss in life with or without him" It actually made me love him less......So with that said I found hope in this quote:

Every moment that you spend upset, in despair, in anguish, angry or hurt because of the behavior of anybody else in your life is a moment in which you have given up control of your own life. - Dr. Wayne Dyer

[SophiaG]

Originally Posted by Scubado86

After giving up everything to move half way across the world to support my boyfriend's career, I told him I was a bit depressed (no job, home all day) Which was something I knew would happen. After a few tearful conversations, he finally told me he doesn't see eye to eye with people who have depressing feelings (this is a very generalized sum of what he said). It hurt so much worse then the pain I was initially having that it actually shook me out of the depression and into "I am going to Kick some @ss in life with or without him" It actually made me love him less......So with that said I found hope in this quote:

Every moment that you spend upset, in despair, in anguish, angry or hurt because of the behavior of anybody else in your life is a moment in which you have given up control of your own life. - Dr. Wayne Dyer

Oh man scuba i hate it when people are like that!

It makes me feel like they don't accept who I am.

[Wants2Fly]

People do not know how to give support; see research of Brant Burleson and his grad students.

Many of the things that we commonly say minimize and trivialize -- and not just for people coping with emotional issues. For example, "You shouldn't feel that way."

Everyone has a right to his or her feelings. We don't have a right to act out on them by injuring others.

People set time limits on how long it takes to recover from a loss -- or depression. "Snap out of it. C'mon, let's go shoot some pool."

Sometimes, we get hit by someone else's emotional issues when we are on the run. Ask the person if you can get together; follow up. Don't rely on the person calling you; hurting people don't.

The kindest support can be just to listen and ask people describe their feelings -- not ramble on about the situation that evoked them. Listening is a way of affirming that the feelings are real and it's okay to feel them.

I do my best to cover some of these points in my interpersonal communication units.

Terrific question.

[SophiaG]

Originally Posted by Wants2Fly

People do not know how to give support; see research of Brant Burleson and his grad students.

I looked brant up. Seems as though he's written interesting communication books that're really expensive!

[f.reliant]

Sometimes I force myself to stop being critical, mad and so forth and I ask myself the question "what was their intention?". Sometimes their intentions are good but their execution just sucks. For the most part I find peoples intentions are good. With that being said, if the same people make you feel hurt or less confident about yourself over and over again, consider having them as an aquaintance and not a friend.

[Dreamy01]

I think unfortunately it's that many people don't know how to cope with emotional pain in THEMSELVES so this gets transferred onto others. People are afraid of pain and things they don't understand or know how to cope with. I have a disability and I notice people behaving badly towards me sometimes. They don't actually know me but they see my crutches and judge me because they are afraid of the unknown. Sadly I think the same is true for emotional pain that relates to abuse. People can't reach into themselves for a compassionate response because they can't always deal with the reality of abuse.