[flipchart]

Hi all,

Yesterday I had an outburst of rage at my mother's and stepfather's home. My throat is still aching as I have yelled at my stepfather for quite a time at the top of my voice. My ears started ringing, that's how loud I was.

I am still surprised, because usually I am rather self-controlled or derisive, when feeling angry.

I cannot say what the trigger was, probably a personal offense, because I remember that I darted out of my chair shouting at him, how dare he talking to me like this. I noticed that he was shocked when confronted with my rage, and then he accused me of being crazy.

My mother started crying, as usual, and lowering the blinds at the window, complaining to her husband about the "best Christmas" she ever had and that she sometimes feels like killing herself.

After the outburst I felt surprisingly calm in an empty way, like standing in a cold desert. The way you feel after vomiting. I felt and feel dispassionate about the scene, only a whiff of guilt. In a subsequent talk with my stepfather, which didn't lead anywhere, no reconciliation, he accused my of heartlessness because I didn't show any emotions.

Anyway, last year I finished a three-year therapy. Depression and fear of being critisized. Now I wonder whether this outburst of rage is a positive sign or if something is completely going wrong here. Would a normal person feel bad about it??

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by flipchart

Hi all,

Yesterday I had an outburst of rage at my mother's and stepfather's home. My throat is still aching as I have yelled at my stepfather for quite a time at the top of my voice. My ears started ringing, that's how loud I was.

I am still surprised, because usually I am rather self-controlled or derisive, when feeling angry.

I cannot say what the trigger was, probably a personal offense, because I remember that I darted out of my chair shouting at him, how dare he talking to me like this. I noticed that he was shocked when confronted with my rage, and then he accused me of being crazy.

My mother started crying, as usual, and lowering the blinds at the window, complaining to her husband about the "best Christmas" she ever had and that she sometimes feels like killing herself.

After the outburst I felt surprisingly calm in an empty way, like standing in a cold desert. The way you feel after vomiting. I felt and feel dispassionate about the scene, only a whiff of guilt. In a subsequent talk with my stepfather, which didn't lead anywhere, no reconciliation, he accused my of heartlessness because I didn't show any emotions.

Anyway, last year I finished a three-year therapy. Depression and fear of being critisized. Now I wonder whether this outburst of rage is a positive sign or if something is completely going wrong here. Would a normal person feel bad about it??

I hope I can help you connect the dots on this, because that seems to be what is necessary here. I'm not surprised that you feel "dispassionate" about the episode. For one thing you have vomited up all your stored rage at your stepfather and mother, and for another your minimized feelings now help protect you from owning what you did. I see a lot of posts on PC about people raging or feeling no emotions, or being on a roller coaster or not being able to control their emotions, on and on and on. ALL of that is worthy of being taken to a medical professional; first to rule out physical causes (like a brain tumor, for example) then to a counselor to help you sort out and get in touch with your feelings, thoughts, and emotions without storing them up like so many poisonous nuts to be blasted out at someone.

I don't see 'outbursts of rage' as a positive sign. I think people have been sold a bill of goods thinking that it is somehow an acceptable way to 'get in touch with one's feelings' but I think an even more valuable way would be through meditation and a daily acknowledgement, even a moment-to-moment acknowledgement of one's thoughts and feelings. For example, I find it troubling that you use the term "derisive" since that is not a good way to approach anyone.

You can apologize for shouting even if you think the content of your message was fair or just or the truth. Considering your stepfather said you were crazy, though it sounds like the content of your message was incomprehensible to him.

I work with someone who has a whole host of poor accommodations to the turmoil inside her. They don't work because they are poor accommodations; and in fact drive her life along the same miserable path it has been on for over 30 years.

I'm no medical professional but my goal in offering advice to people is for them to have a happier, more well-adjusted life. This is the spirit in which I have offered my comments. I hope this has helped.

[0w6c379]

Well I'm not normal, but I think I would wonder, like you, if the outburst of full blown rage means there is more going on here than just standing up for oneself. Did you ever come to terms with your feelings for your stepfather? Were you upset by your mother's reaction to the whole incident? Do you think this is worthy of further discussion with your old T?

Hope you can salvage some part of your visit.

[flipchart]

@Michelle25:

Did you ever come to terms with your feelings for your stepfather?

Not really. Not even now. After "our scene" he told me that for him it's over with, that we seemingly don't like each other, and that's it. This was the first time that I thought he was authentic with me, and it left a frosty shudder on my back. When arguing he quickly becomes disrespectful in a patronizing way, and I don't like that. I used to swallow his remarks in previous years. He can also be affable...sometimes.

Were you upset by your mother's reaction to the whole incident?

She was also accusing him, so I didn't feel upset (and I did not shout at her). I was slightly irritated because I wondered why she suddenly had to draw the attention on HER suffering.

Do you think this is worthy of further discussion with your old T?

Sure (eventually I have a reason to see him again...yeah ;-) ), because I was not able to control myself and never before in my life had I reached the limits of my vocal powers. Actually, while yelling, I was disappointed that I couldn't put more force into it.
Two years ago, also Christmas, I had my first eruption at the breakfast table when my stepfather had accused me of being unable to deal with stress in the family because of my being a single woman without a partnership. When I told my T about my reaction (two seconds burst of anger that silenced my stepfather) and that it had felt like a little geysir erupting inside myself, I was "rewarded" with a friendly smile.

if the outburst of full blown rage means there is more going on here than just standing up for oneself.

My stepfather thinks he is the victim of my crazy ill temper. He thinks I have a nut loose due to my childhood experiences.

[yellowted]

I have blown like that before a few times, how you are feeling is exactly how i felt, the lack of emotion is probably down to the fact you were not actually listened to, by blaming you for the outburst instead of acknowledging their mistakes and disrespecting you yet again your parents are trying to trivialise what is really important to you instead of growing a back bone and helping you work through your anger.
these outbursts usually do not just happen, there is always a cause and often many causes over a period of time... the last straw ... also they are usually directed at the deserved person, so personally i would not feel guilty about it.
mum crying and talking about killing herself is a tactic mine used, it is done to divert the attention back to herself because she knows what you are yelling is right but she does not want to acknowledge it for whatever irrational fear.
it is extremely difficult to show or feel emotion for someone when you are not being supported by them emotionally especially when as parents it is their job to support you unconditionally.

some people are detrimental to our health, i realised this after my last outburst with my parents, since then i have severed all ties and had no more outbursts since. it may be that no matter what you do or say they will never have the ability to understand or empathise with you, not all people are born model parents. it is your choice if you want to stick with them and let bygones be just that or if some time apart will bring you more happiness. a chat with your T may well be a good idea to talk this through as i am just talking from experience

good luck in whatever you decide

[here today]

Rage is a response shared by all mammals to a perceived threat to our survival – it’s fight or flight.

A recent link on PC about the importance of social relationships in the hunter-gatherer stage of our development helped me to understand rage as a response to a perceived threat to our esteem and/or value in a social (especially family) group. Centuries ago, we needed our families in order to survive.

It would be great if we never felt pushed into a corner psychologically, and great if we didn’t have injuries to our sense of self, deriving from our childhoods and parents who probably had problems themselves. Viewing that situation as having a “nut loose” is . . . well, I don’t think I like the guy either.

My suggestion – don’t beat yourself up about the outburst. It might mean that some stuff deeper than what you dealt with earlier is now closer to the surface. Like you said, a reason now to go see the T again. Good luck.

[blur]

getting in touch with your anger can be a good thing especially if you've spent a lifetime repressing it. dumping it all over others on arguably the biggest holiday of the year that is about peace and goodwill, not so much. learning how to control your anger and to communicate and express your emotions in a healthier fashion is a good goal now. you may have very good reasons for being angry at your stepdad but there are much better ways to deal with it. i do get it though and if you were taught zilcho communication skills it will likely take time and hard work to learn how to communicate effectively. it will be worth it though.

a good way to think about if you should have acted in a certain manner or not is to turn it around: how would you have felt if your stepfather, or someone else, unloaded just like this at you on xmas? what sort of action or acknowledgment would you want from them now that they did that to you? maybe begin to think about writing a letter of apology to both your parents for how you communicated even if you feel what you said was needed.

[flipchart]

@yellowted:

your parents are trying to trivialise what is really important to you instead of growing a back bone and helping you work through your anger.

Exactly, thank you for reminding me of what parents are actually there for. They complained that I wouldn't talk about my private life, that I am too secretive and have always been withdrawn and inapproachable. Probably just the reaction of someone who fears being judged rather than understood.

when as parents it is their job to support you unconditionally.

That's what I told him too. He said he never wanted to or could be stepfather because my mother never let him "teach" us, for example telling me that I should wear decent clothes or comb my hair. I now see that he (and also my mother) is unable to be an understanding parent. According to him, the younger person needs someone to tell him/her what is right and then simply follows the rules. That's what he thinks parents are there for. My mother tries to understand but cannot as she hasn't grown up yet and always refused to take over responsibility. That's why she is crying instead of clearly positioning herself in a conflict.

if you want to stick with them and let bygones be just that or if some time apart will bring you more happiness

At the moment I absolutely do not want to play the "harmony game" any longer. I have to rediscover my feelings and then remain faithful to them.

Thank you for your support! :-)

[flipchart]

@here today:

My suggestion – don’t beat yourself up about the outburst. It might mean that some stuff deeper than what you dealt with earlier is now closer to the surface.

Thank you! This helps me to stay true to myself.

[Thunder Bow]

The outburst to me, is a very Positive Sign that you are now aware of your Anger towards him and maybe some other family members. Awareness is the 1st step towards working through angery feelings. Maybe he was the easiest family member to be agery with and the safest one. No, you are not "Crazy".

[hiddeng3nius]

You're story sounds similar to an incident I had with my dad. It wasn't during the holidays but we were trying to have a family discussion and I was basically listing my grievances towards him. His unapologetic nature of who he was and not willing to change and now feeling like it's too late to change angered me. He said something to me that triggered my anger and I started flipping chairs and yelling at him. He even called me names that I felt like were out of place for a man to call his daughter but I paid no heed to that.

I'm sure the way I handled that situation wasn't ideal but to be honest, I felt completely justified in it. I refuse to internalize his faults as my flaws. He thinks everything is water under the bridge now even though I still hold that grudge against him. I know I should let it go but I feel like everyone has been telling me that I'm not allowed to feel that hurt and so now I don't want to give him the satisfaction that things are resolved. Nor do I care for it to be at this point: his mistakes are now my cross to bear.

I'm probably spewing the wrong message here but I'm just trying to show that I hear you. I completely get feeling a bit justified in your actions.

[flipchart]

@hiddeng3nius:

I am pleased that my post helped you to feel a bit justified about what you experienced with your own dad.

I refuse to internalize his faults as my flaws.

That insight really helps and explains my still ambiguous feelings. I've never thought that I had a close relationship with that man, but now I see that his unapologetic nature influenced me more than I prefer and probably not to the best.

I told my mother that when arguing with him I felt like biting on granite, no chance of getting my grievances across, he even turned the tables and tried to find my fault in everything I said. Also he pulled every button to make me feel bad like comparing me with my brother, accusing me of troubling my mother, etc.

I don't like him, and I don't have to like him. He never put much effort into integrating my brother and me into his new relationship with my mother after marrying her.

I haven't worked through my anger yet. But now I know that there is no longer a bridge under which there could flow some water.

[hiddeng3nius]

Trust me, there are still plenty of things that I still need to get over but seeing how unapologetic he is makes me realize there's no point. It's literally a waste of time. The only thing I can take out of this is to be at least content that he knows that we aren't good and why we aren't on good terms. The part that killed me the most was him thinking that things were fine with me. Now that he knows, I find resolve in that. Sure I'd like him to own up to his negative contribution to my issues but he's too oblivious to see that.

My dad also knows how to talk his way out of things and flip the script. But he also knows that I see through his b.s. I sometimes think he's intimidated by me because I'm the only one who can challenge him on his intellect. Everyone else follows like sheep.

Maybe I will be able to "be the bigger person" but I just want to be allowed to feel what I'm feeling without it taking too much control of my life. It's like "screw him for messing things up for me but at the end of the day, I have to clean it up. Not my mess but someone has to clean it and he made it clear that it isn't him."

[yellowted]

Originally Posted by hiddeng3nius

I'd like him to own up to his negative contribution to my issues but he's too oblivious to see that. ]

people like him never own up to their wrong doings, they believe they are better than that. little do they know it only makes them lonely old people as those who should be helping them in their old age want nothing to do with them because of it!

My dad also knows how to talk his way out of things and flip the script. But he also knows that I see through his b.s. I sometimes think he's intimidated by me because I'm the only one who can challenge him on his intellect. Everyone else follows like sheep.

a little power in this situation makes a big difference as you can treat him with the contempt he deserves and not feel guilty about it.

Maybe I will be able to "be the bigger person" but I just want to be allowed to feel what I'm feeling without it taking too much control of my life. It's like "screw him for messing things up for me but at the end of the day, I have to clean it up. Not my mess but someone has to clean it and he made it clear that it isn't him."

you will never be able to clean up all his mess, concentrate on cleaning up the mess he dumped on you, for your own well being, and let him stew in the rest! there is no point trying to change someone who can not even acknowledge he needs to change, it will not work, spare yourself the energy for ridding yourself of his mess.

[flipchart]

@hiddeng3nius:

The part that killed me the most was him thinking that things were fine with me.

pure self-deception on his side.

I'm pretty sure that these kind of emotionally inflexible guys experience friends, family or colleagues withdrawing from them often. Our outspoken reaction is probably just the tip of the iceberg. As long as some sheep are following they can maintain their self-deception and don't see the need to change. How is your mother dealing with that?

[Open Eyes]

(((flipchart))),

I had an uncontrolable rage myself, and it surprised everyone, including myself. I have been battling PTSD that stems back to my childhood, but when I had that rage I had a lot of storred anger that I was surpressing and I had been dealing with a trama and I didn't really understand PTSD.

Rage is strange, it just fills the body and takes over. I didn't understand why I did that and "lost control" tbh. After a few months of therapy I realized that not only was it part of PTSD, but what was happening is the people around me were invading my boundaries and it had finally pushed me over the edge.

It is important that you address this as I agree with the others who are saying that somethings might be surfacing and you need to learn what they mean to you.

As far as dealing with other people that "react poorly" towards you, I have to say that what that mostly boils down to is "they don't know any better". We all think our parents "should be" this or that, but if we really take the time to look at "who they are", we can see their ignorance. Not only that but we can often see that they didn't give/provide because they honestly didn't know "how to".

Your mother's reaction of "self blaming" is typical of someone who most likely was also a victim and only knew "victim mentality" herself.

When you take time to work on yourself, you will get to a point where you will see these people in a "different light" and it is going to be "sad". I have gotten there myself and while I see how my parent's ignorance hurt me growing up, I can also see where they got that ignorance and how they just really didn't know any better.

Open Eyes

[hiddeng3nius]

@yellowted I'm not even bothering with trying to change him. He seems content in himself. Like you said, I'll just let him stew in the rest.

@flipchart This whole family discussion came as a result of a fallout my parents had. My dad was playing pretend boyfriend with other women and ultimately an affair. My mom packed her bags and was willing to start new. I guess she got tired of fighting for herself, went to her Christian roots with forgiveness, and went back to him. It's sad because she went from being Ms. Trying to prove him wrong and be independent do being the dutiful wife she has been playing up her whole marriage. Part of the problem here is her dependency on people. She is completely helpless without someone else doing everything for her.

Communication has never been my family's strong point. The scariest thing for them is to have a conversation with their kids. God forbid they do any of that.

[flipchart]

@OpenEyes:
I find it interesting that you bring up PTSD. This sheds some new light on my hysterical outburst. My T, though, never agreed with me when I mentioned my suspicion of having been traumatised. He talked of "mini-traumas" instead but never ascribed much importance to them. So I wonder whether he is the right person to talk to about my experience.

@hiddengenius:

It's sad because she went from being Ms. Trying to prove him wrong and be independent do being the dutiful wife she has been playing up her whole marriage.

Sorry that watching your mum makes you sad. She seems to be someone trying to fulfill other's expectations and now is caught inbetween the stools.

[layla11]

Hi Flipchart, dont feel bad about getting angry, you didn't do anything that is so bad. When I started getting angry my therapist told me it was good and I was getting better.

[Doxie mom]

I am sorry for what you are going through. I have ruined more than one holiday with my rage full outbursts. I am 39 and was diagnosed a year ago. Even though there is an explanation for my behavior it does not make me feel any better.

[here today]

Originally Posted by flipchart

@OpenEyes:
. . . My T, though, never agreed with me when I mentioned my suspicion of having been traumatised. He talked of "mini-traumas" instead but never ascribed much importance to them. So I wonder whether he is the right person to talk to about my experience.

I had kind of wondered about the T, too . . . how come you had finished therapy with him and he hadn't "probed" or something.

[hiddeng3nius]

@flipchart. Oh no, she isn't stuck. She will side with her husband almost always. But I don't want to see it as she picked him over my sister and I. Maybe she did technically but I refuse to be mad at her too much for it.

[RunningEagleRuns]

for me when i hold my anger in for a long time i eventually flip out in the open

good luck

[flipchart]

@here today: how does a patient notice that he is probed?

[here today]

I can only speak from my own experience: My T said that she was going to push a little and it certainly felt like that. Maybe she was talking about resistance, I’m not sure. But it felt to me like she was pushing. Would I have noticed if she hadn’t said that? I’m not sure. But that’s what I meant when I said “probe”.

That’s what I had thought after reading your first post. However, since you wrote later that your T had not actively pursued your concerns about trauma, that seems the major data point in your case, and I just wanted to support your thought that maybe he was not the person to talk to about it. My current T is a specialist in trauma but I’ve had lots of therapeutic failures with people who did not understand trauma and rage. So . . . I just wanted to support your thought that you might need another T. I wouldn’t have gotten to my current T if a friend hadn’t recognized a problem I was having with a former T and recommended the current one. I don’t know, but I wish you the best of luck!!