Right now, I hate myself so much. I hate myself because I cannot be alone, and I cannot be with people. But after experience, I am better alone than with people. It is the lesser of two evils. I will never be sociable and people's guy, and this affects my life tremendously, but I cannot do anything about it, and I hate that. I know you heard this a million times, but today I mingled with some people and it was absolutely catastrophic and humiliating. When I am alone I can think and contemplate, but when around people I get nervous and my mind goes blank, which make me do and say stupid things.

[it'sgrowtime]

I want to reassure you, but I don't know what happened. if you're willing to say more, in sure everyone here can help. You don't have to hate yourself

[Leyla]

hi mr.stranger
have you sought help. you sound like you have social anxiety by saying you prefer to be alone than be around people.

sorry to say you hate yourself...surely you can list at least 3 things that you like about yourself.

I'm so sorry to read you had an unhappy experience.

Please try to give yourself compassion, it sounds like you were trying but things did not go as well as you hoped. The anxiety you have been feeling is something which is not your fault or your choosing so please do not hate yourself for this - it is not your fault.

This doesn't mean you can never be sociable in any situation - for some of us smaller groups are less threatening and we feel safer (therefore less anxious) for instance.

Who was it humiliating for? Who was it catastrophic for?

I tend to beat myself up...a lot. For lots of things. To be truthful, I have often wondered why I punish myself so much...it's almost like a need or a compulsion. I haven't thought past that though.

I am always shocked when people tell me (in honesty) what they think of me. I question it. I do not trust what they say or why they say it.

I have a warped sense of self.

How do we straighten out this warped sense of self that we have, Mr. Stranger?

Hey Mr. Stranger. I just wanted to share and say I have similar inner experiences. I went to a jewelry making class the other day, and I felt like I said some stupid things. I do now see it that I am harder on myself than I should be, and I wonder if this might be your case too. It sounds like there's a "gap" between who you are, and who you want to be, and you're really struggling with that. Maybe it's not that big a deal though. Maybe you're ok, just the way you are. Not everyone is a people person. There are different degrees and types of people, nothing wrong with any of them. You are most probably the only one being hard on yourself. One more thing: I tend to have a skewed vision of myself, and one time, a person I'd known for only a short time said to me (because I expressed concern about how i seem to others) "You seem fine. And when your nervous quirks come out, it's really quite charming." I was over the moon happy with this encouragement. I wonder, Mr. Stranger, how you might feel if someone said that to you. it's quite possible and probable that you are the only one beating yourself up. I hope someday you can accept yourself as you are, even if you decide you want to work on some things too.

I am best when I am alone in the sense I feel I am being myself. With even one person I become someone else. I lose my sense of self.

Of course it gets worse as the number of people increases. My issue when I am around people is that I don't know what to say, and I don't know what to do, and I am afraid to look at people. It is awkward when you find yourself like this. I am not sure if you completely understand what I am saying.

I guess people are trying to be polite, so of course no one would tell me I am being weird and awkward, but I can feel how that affects their view of me. I am not being taken seriously and and I am being marginalized. It's always been like this for me.

I do think I have a negative image of myself because of my low self esteem, which comes true when I try to come out of my shell. But I don't know how to break this cycle.

If someone complimented me, probably I wouldn't take it seriously. Instead I would probably take it as a gesture of politeness. I had many people complimented me, yet no one showed any real interest in me. Compliments in these cases mean very little, if anything.

More than one said I need to accept myself. What does this mean? To isolate myself completely, or it means something else? Because I feel myself the most when I am alone, but as I alluded, I am missing on things in life that I would like to experience. This is why I am in such pain. I feel comfortable alone, but I don't want to miss on life's experiences. I don't want to die as if I had never lived.

Self acceptance to me would mean that after an experience like this you do not harshly criticise yourself, you have compassion for yourself. As for whether you isolate or not that depends on what you want - do you want to be alone or is it more you would like to be in company of others if you felt more comfortable? It sounds like the latter to me.

This is such a big topic I can't go into too much detail in one go or it will just overwhelm you and I'm guessing you feel overwhelmed already.

Some people are just 'different'. There can be a variety of reasons why, genetic, neuro, cultural - loads more too no doubt. Often fitting in can be harder for 'different' people - social behaviours may not be as easy for them. The funny thing is it's often their 'difference' that can make them quirky as Starrysky describes, and in some peoples eyes that is charming.

From what you write here if you were sitting with me I can more or less say I'd find you quirky/charming - you remind me very much of a friend of mine who overcame SA. He still says awkward and unusual things but also says some interesting off-beat things too.

To be honest, I don't engage with people long enough to give them the chance to know me and me them. I terminate any interaction prematurely or keep silent while being and feeling awkward and weird.

I was hesitant to write this, but one important thing that I feel I am missing is the romantic life. Many guys in University were talking to girls and faking reasons to do so, while I didn't. I pretended to not be interested, but the reality is that I was too afraid. All my peers knew their spouses and had some sort of relationships with them before they got married. The closest I came to was trying to ask a girl I liked in a language course out (and I was in my early 30s), and I didn't do it because I was too afraid of being rejected. I can live without friends, but I think the intimate life is something I keep thinking about and what it looks like and how it feels to love and be loved. But of course, I am not fun, not interesting, and not confident in person (by the way what I write here is more me, but when you see me in person, I won't be this person. I live two separate lives and people create two different images of me based on how I present myself, it seems), and I don't have a social life (which is a big red flag to many people, especially for ladies) how could I ever talk to a lady and impress her? It may sound absurd to some of you, but it is a serious issue for me. I want to be able to talk to girls and find a good match for me someday. I feel I will have to settle because of my lack of social skills only, regardless of all my other traits. With ladies, it doesn't matter what and who you are, if you don't talk and impress, you won't get anywhere. This is the main reason why I don't like being alone.

The other thing is my professional life is way too low for my qualifications, and this is because of my lack of connections and socializing, but I can live with this as well.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm sorry you hate yourself.. just know that a lot of people here don't hate you.

Originally Posted by Mr. Stranger

.......Of course it gets worse as the number of people increases. My issue when I am around people is that I don't know what to say, and I don't know what to do, and I am afraid to look at people. It is awkward when you find yourself like this. I am not sure if you completely understand what I am saying.....

I don't know, perhaps I have given you this advice before...

Have you evaluated your behaviour in an effort to try and understand where the difficulty lies? What about your behaviour is making socializing difficult? As uncomfortable this makes me say, it must be addressed - what are you doing that puts off the people around you?

I believe I have suggested to you in the past that you need to observe other people's behaviour as a model for your own. What makes them socially successful? What is it they do and say? How do they go about doing it and most importantly how do they conduct themselves regarding non verbal communication?

What efforts have you made to do these things?

Only you can make the changes necessary. It will take work.

[Open Eyes]

Hi Stranger,

It is good that you are writing out the way you feel challenged. It takes courage to do that even when it comes to an anonymous site.

It does sound like you are struggling with some social anxiety and what that challenge means is "fear of socializing with others". There are all kinds of reasons people stress when it comes to interacting with others. And while a lot of people do interact, not everyone does it well. And because not everyone does it well, a lot of people struggle. In fact, this site is literally FULL of all kinds of situations people are struggling that pretty much narrows down to their exposure to parents/siblings/piers that were "poor" communicators. Early exposure to individuals who are terrible at communicating, can lead to how a person can struggle, and develop some kind of mental illness or phobia when it comes to interacting with others. So, what can develop in a lot of people is a degree of "shame". This is what you are saying in your title, "Hate Myself".

If one really spends time "observing" human beings, there are a lot of ways human beings communicate with each other that can vary in degrees where they are trying to hide their "fear and shame". Sometimes one can see their area of struggle, often that is expressed in their master of language. I was reminded of that yesterday when I was once again helping my husband "spell" words. I was teaching him how to create an email and send because believe it or not he only knew how to respond to emails, not create one of his own. Then he asked how to spell the word "really", and I went over to him to show him how to use spell check. The word he spelled out was "realy" and when I showed him how to click on the red to see another way of spelling, what came up was rely, relay and not "really". So, I had to once again spell it out for him. My husband cannot figure out how to spell words phonetically, his brain simply cannot do that because he has dyslexia. My husband has communication challenges and can get frustrated, and I have to admit there are lots of times he frustrates me. My husband also has ADHD so his ability to be patient suffers.

Because my husband struggles with learning disabilities, he does have "shame" issues. He can be impatient, he can talk over me, talk down to me and I have to say it has not been easy. There are all kinds of things about my husband that have been difficult and challenging to me. Because of his ADHD, and probably his dyslexia, his attention span when it comes to sitting and communicating with him doesn't last as long as I need it to last. So, I tend to have to "repeat" a lot.

Because my husband struggled with language and did not learn as well as others because of that challenge, he developed "shame" issues. So, my husband does have some of the symptoms described in narcissism. Yet, he is not at the level on the spectrum of NPD. My husband tends to exaggerate a lot and at times can be grandiose. He developed these habits in an effort to cover up or make up for the "shame" he felt because he did not "learn" as well as other students/piers. He is not easy to work with and sometimes even interact with in that one thing I had learned is if I think one way, he typically thinks the opposite way. YET, he is not "stupid" and if I was stuck out in the wild for some reason and had to survive, he would be able to step up and do a lot of things that would be needed to survive.

I have a daughter who has dyslexia too. I had to learn all about this challenge so I could be there for her as she was trying to learn. It was not easy when it came to how cruel her piers could be to her because she "learned differently". I am lucky that there were people that noticed this challenge and decided to study it and find out what is different and how to "help" these individuals learn and achieve in spite of struggling. Unfortunately, a lot of these individuals end up going down the wrong road in life, a lot of these people are in jail, and what is sad about that is that these individuals tend to actually be "gifted" and have the capacity to achieve and contribute significantly to society.

I am sharing this with you so that you can begin to see how humanity can create "social anxiety" issues out of "ignorance". The ignorance is the expectation to base value on language skills and how interactions can become toxic simply because of how quickly people make judgments and interact in ways that create "shame" issues. In that a lot of people struggle when it comes to "human interaction". You are really not alone in having some fears and inadequacies. The proof of that is all over this site. When you come and post and interact on this site, you are in a large group of people from all over that are sharing their genuine challenges and insecurities and frustrations that are not all that different from your own challenges of inadequacies.

When you talk about how well educated you are in that you qualify to work on a higher level, but that one of the things that is holding you back from working on that level is your social skills, you are not as alone as you think. Truth is, it's not easy to be involved with other human beings without facing "social challenges". The first step when it comes to stepping away from "self hate" is to recognize how very much you are not alone when it comes to finding a way to "engage". A lot of human beings find ways to keep them to task when it comes to communicating a message, they write speeches and now use teleprompters and some people if they are on a high level will insist on having the questions they will be asked in an interview in advance. There are individuals who have jobs in the "communications" area where they are the spokes person for someone important, or for a company or product. Ironically, that has been practiced all throughout human history. Even in a prison there are individuals who become the communicators of groups.

One thing to keep in mind is that people do like to talk about themselves. People respond well when someone "listens" and has a way of talking to them that "includes" them. I had to teach my daughter how to do this in high school. She had a boy that she liked and he would call her on the phone and one day she came to me and said, "Mom, I don't know what to do because this boy doesn't talk". So, I told her that because she knows that about him she will have to make up a list of questions to ask him. I taught her how to not only initiate the conversation, but to keep it going. Well, this one boy NEVER forgot that about her, she was the one person he "could" talk to and he NEVER forgets her birthday and he is always the first one to call her too. Often he will call her just after midnight so he can be the first one to wish her happy birthday. You know why? Because she was the first one to teach "him" how to have a conversation all those years ago. In fact, this guy would marry her if she encourage that. The other thing about her learning how to create a conversation was that she never forgot how she needed to do that with this one boy. And that was the beginning of her learning curve when it came to developing "her" social skills. And because of that she works in a position where she practices that same kind of interaction and she does really well. Social skills is "learned and practiced", it's a skill that has to be developed. YET, the "skill" includes learning how to interact on different levels where others may struggle and figuring out how to keep the conversation going in spite of.

Thanks all for the replies. I don't know why, but the practice principle doesn't work with me. First of all, I am too scared and weak to try, and second if I tried and failed, I would isolate myself, and stop trying. Right now I feel so depressed on my whole situation. I just cannot figure it out why I am like this.

I know my upbringing has something to do with it, but why I cannot overcome it!! What makes things worse is that I have developed depression, so now I don't have the vitality that gives me the spark of life. I am more a walking dead than a living human beings. Often when I want to socialize, I imagine how bad I am going to look, then I get depressed over that thought, which either prevents me from trying, or if I tried it would be very cold.

I guess all of this puts people off: anxiety, lack of confidence, awkwardness, lack of vitality, silence, ... etc. One woman I know superficially yesterday followed me after the gathering I went to to say hi and I said hi, and that was all. I couldn't say anything else, and I walked away. Probably now she thinks I am rude but the fact is that I didn't know what to say, and if I said something I was afraid it would sound stupid and impolite (I think I have some ASD traits because sometimes I don't know the distinction between what is acceptable and what is not. I made some people angry in the past for things I thought it was OK to say).

I know you may think I am creating excuses, but the fear inside me is very powerful, and the weakness and lifelessness is so crippling. I know I am losing a lot because of this while others progress in life, yet I cannot overcome it. Sometimes I do well in some interactions, but these occasional good situations are quick to be forgotten, and has no effect on my core for next times.

Professionally, I wasn't talking about high level positions, but rather to get a job in a good company in my field. From there I can progress to higher positions. Now, I don't even get interviews. I applied for about 400 jobs, and got 1 personal interview, and one phone interview. That is it. People keep telling me to connect with hiring managers, and I don't know how to do that and what to say ... etc.

I hate to admit this, but as much as I hate not living life, I feel I don't want to live it, and then I weep over the fact that I am not living it. I know this doesn't make sense, but this is how I feel. I feel I am locked in a loop. I need help, but I don't want professional help.

The question is how someone can get out of this situation? How to make someone overcome his/her fear? How to find vitality to live? I am yet to discover these answers, if ever. Right now, I have a conviction that I will never live my life. I will die as if I had never existed. I am in my mid 30s now, and if I haven't lived my life in my youth, will I ever live it? Doubtful. I cry sometimes over this fact about my life, but of course tears do nothing positive to me, it is just a temporary relief.

I know some people struggle in social settings, but I haven't seen someone like me in social situations and interacting with people. I mean, some people would say I am alone or not sociable, but then you discover they have one or more friends, and/or a boyfriend/girlfriend. I am a complete disaster socially, literally speaking. No one would like to do anything with me, I guarantee you that, because it happens with me all the time.

This was too long, but yes, these are my main issues and challenges. I know what I have to do, but I cannot do them and I don't have the motivation to do them. I don't know why nothing motivates me to change, although sometimes I cry and feel so much pain over the fact I am so alone and miserable and not experiencing what life has to offer!!

Open Eyes, I think your family is lucky to have someone like you who is open minded and understands the psychology of people well. Society doesn't understand these dynamics and differences. It measures people against the same measure, and he/she who doesn't measure up will be dropped without any consideration. That being said, I don't blame society. It is the way it is.

I suspect I have ADHD, because I cannot concentrate and my mind goes blank a lot when talking to people, which affects the quality of my tries above the aforementioned causes. But I don't focus on the labels.

[Open Eyes]

It's true that general society lacks the understanding when it comes to individuals who struggle. I see it all the time and have seen it all my life tbh.

If you have Aspergers, that is a challenge and a lot of individuals with Aspergers get help with learning how to understand cues.

If I were to design a program I would have children involved because they are easier to begin with when it comes to developing communication skills. They tend to me more accepting and non judgemental. And they tend to exaggeration their expressiveness which with help I think can do a lot when it learns to understanding human cues.

A lot of people get confused between ADHD and Aspergers as there are symptoms that are similar but there is a difference.

You are actually doing a great job interacting with me in this thread Stranger. I think you are probably better with this kind of interaction than you are with "in person" interactions. You write well too. You did well with responding to my lengthy post. I would like to see you improve on your very poor opinion of yourself. You are certainly not stupid.

The question is how someone can get out of this situation? How to make someone overcome his/her fear? How to find vitality to live? I am yet to discover these answers, if ever. Right now, I have a conviction that I will never live my life. I will die as if I had never existed. I am in my mid 30s now, and if I haven't lived my life in my youth, will I ever live it? Doubtful. I cry sometimes over this fact about my life, but of course tears do nothing positive to me, it is just a temporary relief.

My very painful solution is doing something where you are forced to be a public speaker and interact with people on a long term basis. I was shy and unable to speak with people until I got a job where I do a lot of public speaking and basically I command the room. At a certain point it just pushes you so far outside your comfort zone that you become comfortable and also, by interacting you get to see what other people do. You also gain confidence by seeing the way that others respond to you.

You mentioned you lose your sense of self but I have noticed by interacting with a lot of people I lose my sense of self too but sometimes literally pick up other people's personalities. This is a positive thing as you can use other people's good qualities for yourself.

In terms of particulars you need to memorize three bull topics to talk about when things get slow. Mine are
- weather
- an feature of the house / car etc
- and something that the person is wearing.

So yesterday when that person came out and said "hi" and you were stymied for something to say. You could say, "hi, wow surprised your hear with this weather?" it is just a jumping off point.

Actually I don't have issues with public speaking. A couple of months ago I did a presentation in an international conference, and I think I was one of the best presenters in my session. As long as I am prepared and the setting is well organized, I do well enough. In my last job I was doing my job alone in a closed office. I wasn't interacting with anyone, and no one was interacting with me. Occasionally, I was seeing my supervisor, but that is about it.

I have issue in informal settings, though, where things aren't predictable and not organized. These small talks aren't my thing (weather, cloths, ... etc). I cannot do them. I am horrible in them. Being spontaneous is something I lack. I must thing everything through before talking, otherwise things become disastrous. But in informal settings you cannot prepare. So, I either keep silent, and speak nonsensical and stupid things. I remember once I went out with a postdoc, and all I was talking about was politics, science, and religion. He was polite enough to respond, but I felt he didn't like it, and he never went out with me again. One thing I forgot to mention is that from anxiety my face becomes so weird (I don't know how to describe this), which makes my anxiety appears to others plainly.

I don't know, I just feel no one understands what I am talking about. Shyness is not the correct term for it. I fear connecting with people, but this fear is just a dimension in a multi-dimensional issue. I mean, if I overcome my anxiety to talk with others, I will have to face the problem of how to connect with others.

I think even if someone came to me to initiate a conversation and to know me, I wouldn't do well. Someone at the university alluded to me that when he first saw me, he thought I am fun, interesting and a conversationalist, but when he really talked to me, he knew I was nothing. I feel this is a pattern in my life. As long as I am silent people think I am someone worth talking to and knowing. The moment I open my mouth all they find is disappointment.

I think I am just too damaged and irreparable at this age. I feel I am painfully giving up. I am not a fatalist in the strict sense, but I believe the random experiences I have been through have set me the way I am. I don't believe things will work out for me, ever. I don't see a glimpse of hope in my dark reality to encourage me. I know I am so negative and pessimist, but that is how I feel right now after all these failed years of trying. I need some hope to start over, but right now that hope isn't there and I don't know how and where to find it.

Anyway, thanks all for the replies. I appreciate them all.

[Open Eyes]

I think if you can prepare for a speech and do well at it you can learn how to prepare for casual small talk too. It's about learning to talk in a loop that engages others. As far as that conversation you had that included politics and religion? The best thing to do is stay away from those topics as a lot of people get uncomfortable discussing those topics.

I think politics and religion are better suited to established friendships, once you know eachother well.

I like the suggestions of preparing subject areas you can talk about which are safe bets and yes most people really like to talk about themselves so often just a few prompt questions can start a convo like that.

Originally Posted by Mr. Stranger

Professionally, I wasn't talking about high level positions, but rather to get a job in a good company in my field. From there I can progress to higher positions. Now, I don't even get interviews. I applied for about 400 jobs, and got 1 personal interview, and one phone interview. That is it. People keep telling me to connect with hiring managers, and I don't know how to do that and what to say ... etc.

Mr. Stranger, I do not discount any of the things you have said but if you are out of work and looking for a job, this must be magnifying your feelings of inadequacy about social interactions. For many job openings out there, hundreds of people apply but only one gets the job so that leaves the hundreds that don't feeling like failures. It doesn't help that there are many companies that advertise positions yet may not "fill" the spot for a while or may already have someone in mind but have to "advertise" the position anyways! Being unemployed can get even the smoothest of operators down!
I do enjoy your conversations on here. You always have plenty of interesting things to say about lots of things....

How long have you been working with your therapist in treating your social anxiety?

We're here for you

Originally Posted by bohemiangirl85

How long have you been working with your therapist in treating your social anxiety?

We're here for you

I am actually not in therapy. I read some books, though, but I don't seem to be able to force myself to follow them through. I opened a new thread about this issue in the "Other Mental Health Discussions" forum. Thanks

Originally Posted by Mr. Stranger

I am actually not in therapy. I read some books, though, but I don't seem to be able to force myself to follow them through. I opened a new thread about this issue in the "Other Mental Health Discussions" forum. Thanks

With social anxiety it takes time and baby steps are key. I hope you consider seeing a therapist. Best of luck