[seesaw]

I worked on this with my therapist, but I've recently moved and don't have a new therapist yet, and feeling really crummy about this topic, so was looking for some support and validation.

A few times in my life, I have joined a group or a gotten a new job or visited a place and over some time realized how much it was not for me or how much I just flat out didn't like it. But because, in the background of my ongoing childhood abuse, I wasn't allowed to have my feelings or opinions on things, and I never realized this until recently, but I subconsciously assume that it must be ME, there is something wrong with ME, and that I should stay and change myself so that I like the place.

I think it would be pretty obvious why that doesn't work. So then conflict arises, because not only am I trying to convince myself that this social group or work environment is actually really positive and good, and I should like it, or the members of the group make it out that I'm a bad person for having trouble fitting into the group or job or whatever. It ends up taking me through this incredible emotional turmoil and occasionally some actual conflict, because I simply cannot say "I do not like this place. I am leaving." I hope you can understand this: to me it's like I am a bad person because I do not like that place and cannot make myself like it.

I'm quite upset right now because recently I actually took a proactive step and left a group that I finally decided, after 6 months of BS, that the group was not for me. Then people from the group started privately contacting me in what seemed, to me, like attempts to assure themselves that I am wrong for not liking that group environment. Obviously I'm not going into details; I am just sharing what is relevant to the coping issue I'm having and what's affecting me.

(And frankly, I hate having to give a disclaimer that I'm only discussing the relevant details, because it's possible there are members of that group here who would wish to argue with me, rather than allow me to seek support for the things I am dealing with, and making my needs about them. If this is you, then just pass my post over, thank you. You can have your opinion of things elsewhere, and I can have mine here.) Ug, I can't even believe that I feel I have to say that to protect myself.

Back to the coping with emotions part: I am trying to build a space where it's okay for me to feel what I feel or have my opinion. My feelings or opinions do not have to agree with anyone else's. And I certainly don't want to be in any groups where their intent is to FORCE me to change how I feel or what I think. And I am trying to work on leaving relationships, social groups, situations, environments that are bad for me or not conducive to my health and happiness immediately when I start to get that uncomfortable feeling versus after they've been allowed to traumatize me further (might be a little dramatic with that phrasing but I'm not quite sure how to put their impact differently - the impact is quite bad on me).

Does anyone else struggle with leaving situations, jobs, environments, relationships that are just not good for them or a good fit for them? I don't even mean outright domestic abuse, but just like, things that are psychologically distressing or even so simple as not your preference and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I just need to know: it's okay for me to not like something and say I don't like it and not want to participate in it. And I don't have to apologize for that.

seesaw

[unaluna]

"It's not for me." I think that yes, we ARE allowed to say that. Like people in my apartment complex were having these tiny dinners where they seemed to invite only crazy people. You know, all the lonely single ladies over 60. Then i realized i may be alone, but im not lonely? And that the others are much busier socially than i am, so who is entertaining whom? And that i didnt want to listen to any of their egotistical stuff. Plus it was very hard on me to prepare my part of the potluck, and to break up my week to take the time to attend. So i stopped going.

Now, lately, as i have rid myself of such obligations, and my t, i am surprising myself with my newfound health and energy as i follow MY schedule inclinations. No more static-y demands in my head. If only i could have had this my whole life.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by unaluna

"It's not for me." I think that yes, we ARE allowed to say that. Like people in my apartment complex were having these tiny dinners where they seemed to invite only crazy people. You know, all the lonely single ladies over 60. Then i realized i may be alone, but im not lonely? And that the others are much busier socially than i am, so who is entertaining whom? And that i didnt want to listen to any of their egotistical stuff. Plus it was very hard on me to prepare my part of the potluck, and to break up my week to take the time to attend. So i stopped going.

Now, lately, as i have rid myself of such obligations, and my t, i am surprising myself with my newfound health and energy as i follow MY schedule inclinations. No more static-y demands in my head. If only i could have had this my whole life.

Allowing yourself to finally say that is so empowering, right? But I would go one step farther. I actually want to say "I don't like/enjoy this." Even saying "it's not for me" feels like I'm tiptoeing around someone else's fragile ego. If someone isn't mature enough to handle that I don't like their group environment or whatever that it's about my likes/dislikes, and it's perfectly fine for them to like it.

[unaluna]

Yeahbut, saying "its not for me" carries an implied "but i see why an ahole like YOU would like it!" So not so tiptoey as one might think! And it ends the conversation, which would be a goal for me.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeahbut, saying "its not for me" carries an implied "but i see why an ahole like YOU would like it!" So not so tiptoey as one might think! And it ends the conversation, which would be a goal for me.

OMG! That's hilarious. I never read the sort of condescension in that before. Hmmm...I may actually use it now.

Honestly though, for me, I really do need to use the words that I don't like it. At least for now while I regain my voice in these matters. And if that means I have to say to the person "it's okay for you to like it and me to dislike it" and it's also okay for me to dislike a person and for a person to dislike me...to quote the FB meme I just saw "You can't please everyone. You aren't chocolate."

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, seesaw! I agree with what unaluna has already wisely said better than I ever could! I'd suggest to listen to her if you can and want! She always gives such great advice to everyone! I do believe you have EVERY RIGHT to express your opinion and that you simply don't like being around some people and that you have every right to talk to them about all of this! I understand why it'd be hard for you to do all of this, but I'm really happy that you're taking all of these little steps to stand up for yourself and simply get out of an unpleasent group, situation, work environment or simply unpleasent people! It IS empowering and we DO need to take GREAT care of yourself! I'm really happy that you're taking all of these little giant steps! I can ensure you that you'll feel MUCH, MUCH better because of all of these little giant step that you're taking! Please keep fighting as much as you can and keep trying your best in life! That's all we humans can do after all and it's ALWAYS more than enough! I'm really happy that you're working on yourself and I'm SURE that you'll be able to see the benefits soon! Life is too precious and too short! We don't need toxic people in our lives! We need to surround ourselves only with people who will love us and respect us for who we truly are! Good on you for working on yourself and your boundaries! I'm struggling a lot with getting out of unpleasent environments or situations as well so I understand what you mean! I have much to learn from you! Keep fighting as much as you can! You're AWESOME! You're STRONG! You're A WARRIOR! I believe in you! We all believe in you! We're all rooting for you! We're all cheering you on! Believe in yourself! I hope you'll be able to believe in yourself the same way we all believe in you because YOU'RE AWESOME and YOU KNOW IT! We ALL know that! I'm sure you know that as well even if it's deep down! PLEASE REMEMBER THAT! Remember that we're here for you if you need it! Feel free to PM me anytime! Let me know if I can do something to help you! Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes! I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this, seesaw! :.sadhug:

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, seesaw! I agree with what unaluna has already wisely said better than I ever could! I'd suggest to listen to her if you can and want! She always gives such great advice to everyone! I do believe you have EVERY RIGHT to express your opinion and that you simply don't like being around some people and that you have every right to talk to them about all of this! I understand why it'd be hard for you to do all of this, but I'm really happy that you're taking all of these little steps to stand up for yourself and simply get out of an unpleasent group, situation, work environment or simply unpleasent people! It IS empowering and we DO need to take GREAT care of yourself! I'm really happy that you're taking all of these little giant steps! I can ensure you that you'll feel MUCH, MUCH better because of all of these little giant step that you're taking! Please keep fighting as much as you can and keep trying your best in life! That's all we humans can do after all and it's ALWAYS more than enough! I'm really happy that you're working on yourself and I'm SURE that you'll be able to see the benefits soon! Life is too precious and too short! We don't need toxic people in our lives! We need to surround ourselves only with people who will love us and respect us for who we truly are! Good on you for working on yourself and your boundaries! I'm struggling a lot with getting out of unpleasent environments or situations as well so I understand what you mean! I have much to learn from you! Keep fighting as much as you can! You're AWESOME! You're STRONG! You're A WARRIOR! I believe in you! We all believe in you! We're all rooting for you! We're all cheering you on! Believe in yourself! I hope you'll be able to believe in yourself the same way we all believe in you because YOU'RE AWESOME and YOU KNOW IT! We ALL know that! I'm sure you know that as well even if it's deep down! PLEASE REMEMBER THAT! Remember that we're here for you if you need it! Feel free to PM me anytime! Let me know if I can do something to help you! Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes! I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this, seesaw! :.sadhug:

Of course I listen to @unaluna!

And your message nearly made me cry. Thank you so much for that pep talk and believing in me. You're such a great supporter and validator. I appreciate you so much!

[seesaw]

I just keep struggling with this incident right now. I think because of the sort of gas-lighting (from my perspective it's gaslighting) and twisting my words and not listening or trying to understand at all what I was saying, it was basically a mind-f***. So I think I'm just processing the whole time I was there, including my decision to exit, and trying to validate myself that it's okay and I'm okay. Yeah, so this small group of people has a negative perception of me; well I have a pretty negative perception of them, that was reinforced multiple times even though I tried to give them a chance to be perceived differently. I need to stop giving people so many chances to hurt me. And I'm not trying to play a victim here. I know my role in it. But that doesn't change how I feel now and what I need to do to heal now.

And I'm sure they are all hurting too, either because of the situation or just because they are clearly hurting and therefore doing hurtful things to others, but fixing their hurt is not my responsibility.

Sorry, just trying to cope with this anger that's coming up again as I subconsciously try to deny my feelings.

[Open Eyes]

You have a right to experience your own feelings and have your own opinions about things, likes and dislikes seesaw.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

You have a right to experience your own feelings and have your own opinions about things, likes and dislikes seesaw.

Thank you. I can tell how badly this is affecting me right now because every time someone simply validates me by saying that, I want to cry. I am so used to just stuffing what I feel and pretending to feel something different and let people hurt me so that there won't be conflict. I'm tired of it. I'm too old for it. I feel how I feel. Don't like it? F*** off. (Not saying that to anyone here, just like, in general, that needs to be my attitude.)

I'm so tired of tiptoeing around every damn person in the world, being afraid of upsetting them.

[nicoleflynn]

ALL of your feelings and thoughts are valid. No one can stop you from having a thought or opinion.

[eskielover]

Does anyone else struggle with leaving situations, jobs, environments, relationships that are just not good for them or a good fit for them? I don't even mean outright domestic abuse, but just like, things that are psychologically distressing or even so simple as not your preference and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I just need to know: it's okay for me to not like something and say I don't like it and not want to participate in it. And I don't have to apologize for that.

Yea.....I stayed in my marriage for 33 years. There were things that really bothered me from the beginning but then I didn't have the words to express my feelings (like I have gained since then) I wasn't silent with my opinions & feelings BUT my learned way of reacting was striking out & fighting......so I always thought I was the "bad guy" since I was the one striking out. That was usually is situations where I felt I had no escape. Other situations I remember just disappearing from with no explanation because I had no idea how to put my feelings into words & I don't think I was even really aware of my feelings other than just my GUT FEELING....just sensed an uncomfortable feeling & one sure can't express something as nebulous as that.

It wasn't until finally having good therapy to identify my feelings & find words for them but also the DBT section on interpersonal effectiveness has helped me put those words together to better communicate in a way that gets across MY feelings & needs while being (somewhat) sensitive to the others. I still blow it at times

[seesaw]

It's a hard habit to break, eating your feelings to ease others, when your formative years were spent doing that to survive. When you had to stay high in someone's good opinion just to get food or not get hit or not be the one raged at. I'm not saying it's impossible, I have certainly come a long way in not people pleasing but I also seriously struggle anytime someone disagrees with me in allowing my own feelings and opinions to continue to have weight, and not just rolling over because I want to get along. And then being okay if the ends that relationship because we cannot agree.

[eskielover]

Sometimes it comes down to picking one's battles. Sometimes a confrontation is appropriate.....sometimes retreat. Depends on the situation & the people. Either way it usually ends the getting along.....but then are those people really who you want to get along with? (Of course work environment is different)

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Sometimes it comes down to picking one's battles. Sometimes a confrontation is appropriate.....sometimes retreat. Depends on the situation & the people. Either way it usually ends the getting along.....but then are those people really who you want to get along with? (Of course work environment is different)

Well, it's not about a confrontation. That's not what this whole thing is about at all. It has nothing to do with picking battles at all. This is not about verbalizing one's opinion; it's about not feeling bad or made to feel bad that my opinion or feelings are what they are.

And no, work environments or other environments where getting along is a requirement for my livelihood, no, those aren't people I want to get along with nor spend time with. That is the whole point. I force myself to stay in these relationships or environments thinking the whole time that there is something wrong with me and allowing them to make me feel like there is something wrong with me because I feel differently or have a different perspective on things and see things differently than they do. It makes me feel like I'm some kind of evil person because I do not agree with them or see things differently. The whole point is making it okay for myself to either speak up or walk away, regardless of the outcome of either, and stand by my conviction of what I feel or my perspective and if that means I walk away or end the relationship, then that's fine, because I am not bad for disagreeing.

[eskielover]

This is not about verbalizing one's opinion; it's about not feeling bad or made to feel bad that my opinion or feelings are what they are.

Hmmmm how can you be MADE to feel your feelings or opinions are bad if you haven't verbalized them.?

If it is internal then YOU are the one not allowing it not them?

How do you know THEY don't allow it or would have a problem with someone who has different feelings or opinions if you are not verbalizing it?

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Hmmmm how can you be MADE to feel your feelings or opinions are bad if you haven't verbalized them.?

If it is internal then YOU are the one not allowing it not them?

How do you know THEY don't allow it or would have a problem with someone who has different feelings or opinions if you are not verbalizing it?

Excellent questions/points. It's both going on. On the one hand it is absolutely MYSELF being afraid to dissent outloud and be okay with walking away when my dissent is taken poorly or not accepted/tolerated. And then, yes, there are situations in which it is verbalized and then I am attacked and harassed (easiest way to describe it) until I either do say that I changed it or back away.

So what I am wanting is to not make myself a bad person (yes, ME making myself a bad person - because this is what happened in my abuse) for feeling, believing, seeing, acting in a way that others disagree with. ME making it okay for ME to disagree and to either decide I want to "confront" which could be as simple as discussion or as heated as argument, or to just walk away.

Yes, this has come about because there are specific things that have happened where I verbalized a dissenting opinion or spoke up about how I felt about something and was made to feel that I was wrong and believe I was bad for feeling/believing what I did. But what I'm struggling with is basically now I'm so afraid to disagree or say what I feel and not only that, I actually feel I am a bad person when I feel or think differently than others, even if I think they are really wrong and it's justified. Yes, it is me that is making me not allowed to have my opinion or feelings. It's reinforced by certain events and situations, but it continues and pervades my life because it was a survival coping skill and now it is metaphorically strangling me.

Does that make sense at all?

[eskielover]

Sure does make sense

When our growing up years (adding abuse) have created environments where voicing one feelings or opinions created problems it is much harder to overcome.

I wasn't made to feel bad BUT I was afraid to voice my thoughts about anything because I observed my Dad doing this & hearing how uninformed he was (he never read or learned anything...no papers or magazinges in our house when I was growing up). The people he would once in awhile engage with were very tolerant of him.....but it embarrassed ME to the point I was afraid to voice my opinions because in my own mind I was afraid I would sound STUPID (not bad)

Different cause but similar result...not allowing ourselves to speak out & when I did get up enough nerve I had a hard time finding the words & I never had opinions that others agreed with making it even harder.

I think each person has a different way to get to that point. For me after I built up confidence & knowledge as a foundation for my opinions & understanding of my feelings it seemed easier to handle differences in most environments (though those feelings of STUPID still creep in at times even now). Not sure we ever escape the past we just learn how to handle those haunting voices inside ourselves with time & practice.

Time & practice seem to help in feeling secure with that it is OK to think & feel the way we do. Sometimes when I have been the most afraid when I finally did speak out I found out that there were others who have thought & felt the same way even in a crowd that disagreed.

[saidso]

I think there is usually a status quo - even here on PC there is a status quo - and because humans are primed to be social in groups they tend to emphasise and defend the status quo. There is good in that because human beings are primed to be social but it can also be oppressive.

It's great to see you emerging Seesaw, and articulating how you feel! I can feel how difficult it is for you. Perhaps have confidence that the more you speak out internally and in "safe" places, the more strengthened those connections will become, until people enjoy your differences rather than feeling uncomfortable with them.

???

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by saidso

I think there is usually a status quo - even here on PC there is a status quo - and because humans are primed to be social in groups they tend to emphasise and defend the status quo. There is good in that because human beings are primed to be social but it can also be oppressive.

It's great to see you emerging Seesaw, and articulating how you feel! I can feel how difficult it is for you. Perhaps have confidence that the more you speak out internally and in "safe" places, the more strengthened those connections will become, until people enjoy your differences rather than feeling uncomfortable with them.

???

Thank you, @saidso! I have been still struggling with this but also went a found sagee spaces for myself.

I wanted to post more here but was kind of torn between trying to grow and move on and legitimately needing more encouragement and validation that my feelings are okay. So I appreciate your support at this moment!

Hi Seesaw, your feelings are perfectly legit and OK. It's great to see you identifying your true needs and empowering yourself. It is not easy when you've been conditioned differently because of emotional survival needs, I know. I have been a people pleaser and went along with things, even if I disagreed, so as not to create conflict or criticism. But, it's the most empowering experience to say "no" "I don't like this" "I don't want to be a part of this anymore" or "I disagree with this" and to walk away from something that does not suit you well. For me, it's also a matter of not caring so much about what others say or think of me, which was also hard for me to accomplish (for years). You can say "no" and not be a bad person for doing so, even if it results in negative responses from others. I think the key thing I had to learn was to rise above the negativity I received. People will often criticize and put down those who show strength, independence and who do not go along with the crowd. As my best friend always tells me "the weak like to take down the strong". That always stuck with me. Many people go along with the crowd out of fear of being different, of being criticized and of being apart from the others and left out. Anyways, the point is, I am proud of you. It may take some practice, but it's best to be true to yourself and your own inner voice, as I've always believed. Keep listening to that inner voice and allowing it to be heard and acceptable to you, most importantly.