[AzulOscuro]

In an idillic world, at least 33 times, to say a number but in real world and the experience you get through years I don’t have a number, I only have my “ health thermometer” to tell me that once I can’t take it more because my own health is at risk ( physical or mental) I don’t have any problem to get rid of that person.
And I respect the people who also do the same with me. I’m not an easy going person. I mean, sometimes I can be a big great pain right in the @ss.
I’m fine with keeping healthy boundaries, to be honest. It makes you feel better and proud.

What do you think about it all?

[SprinkL3]

That's a good question. It could be a philosophical one.

Some would say that "unconditional love" is forgiving indefinitely.

Others would say that repentance is required in order to forgive, and therefore the answer to your question would be once.

Still, others, would say that the answer lies with how many degrees of forgiveness there are. For example, some may only begin to "forgive" by not wishing revenge on a person per se, but rather accountability and justice, including restorative justice - a sort of hopeful prayer that the person who did the wrong will be the one to instigate restorative justice. Then the next level of forgiveness would be to hear the person who did the wrong out, and then to sit with their answers and their asking for forgiveness a while - that is, until you are ready, or until you know that what they said was genuine. Sometimes retribution is required beforehand as well. Then the next level - regardless of whether or not the person is remorseful or not - is to forgive one small area at a time, first by reasoning with a higher power or some other philosophy about releasing the wrongs done to you to the wind, a fire, the ocean, or the earth - by some ritual that you allow to let go of the pain one small area at a time, without negating the lessons learned from that experience, and without negating that forgiveness does not mean that you're a continued doormat or that you are obligated to restore any relationships.

Forgiveness is how you define it. It's not a religious act per se, unless you want it to be.

And in some cases, some people are just not capable or ready to forgive in this lifetime. Perhaps they have cognitive delays, or perhaps they are too harmed to be able to forgive. In other cases, people may choose to never forgive, and so the answer in these instances would be zero.

Forgiveness is a great topic to address here. Some therapists will use that in therapy, but others will not. It depends on how "forgiveness" is defined.

I think it depends on the situation.

my mother, for instance,

Possible trigger:

I can never forgive her for trying to kill me and for all the abuse she caused me, and the childhood she made me miss out on.

I guess with everything else, it's maybe once or twice- more likely once

[Discombobulated]

I am lucky in that in my life the forgiveness I’ve given and been given has been for minor transgressions.

In my case I’ve always tried to understand and to stand in the persons shoes, I would hope others would do the same for me. I honestly haven’t had a time when I haven’t forgiven, although there have been times when I haven’t forgotten either (very few thankfully) but as I say I’ve been lucky.

I do think some things can be unforgivable and I don’t think anyone should feel pressured to forgive.

I do think using your own health and well-being as a guide is a good one.

[Mountaindewed]

I often forgive very easily. I sometimes don’t forget though and I get wary and am unsure of certain people while still am able to communicate and be around them.

[RoxanneToto]

Forgiveness is easier the less major a transgression is, and isn’t something that ‘offenders’ of any level are automatically entitled to if they do apologise. It’s a privilege, not a right

[Deilla]

I'm working on forgiving everyone. Forgiveness is for me. Not for them. It takes me out of the victim role and helps me let go of the past.

[sarahsweets]

IMO forgiveness is always about the forgiver. Yes the subject or cause of the pain is related to someones words or actions but to forgive is giving yourself permission to heal and move forward. Its cathartic. Its freeing. I only have this view point because of my own experiences getting sober and dealing/accepting/healing from my past trauma. I think its sort of inaccurate to look at forgiveness as the hurt, injured or traumatized person being responsible to do the "forgiving" for all the horrible mistakes, hurtful actions and abuse . I do not believe that is the job of the forgiver. The forgiver always has a choice-To allow the past abuses to rule the present and impact your quality of life and relationships; and additionally bear the burden of righting that wrong by bestowing forgiveness and understanding.
F*** that sh**. Seriously. The forgiver can forgive to help THEMSELVES heal. It is not meant to clear the conscience of a abuser or to absolve them of past wrongs.

[Deilla]

I'm faced with forgiving my brother and I can't do it. I know it would be so much better for me. Maybe I can forgive him yet still refuse to see him. I could do that. Just because you forgive someone, doesn't mean you have to be around them. You're just moving on from a past hurt, which I think I'm ready to do. I wish him well. I hope he enjoys visiting my mom.

[SprinkL3]

Two helpful spiritual books on forgiveness, "cheap forgiveness" (Coulter), etc.

CHRISTIANITY-BASED: Dr. Leah Coulter - Rediscovering the Power of Repentance and Forgiveness & Pastoral Theology of Rescue & Relationship for the Sinned-Against

#1

There is something deep within the heart of every man and woman that longs to see justice prevail. But what about when injustices are committed against us? How do we move forward? Can we really just “forgive and forget”?

Through a thorough examination of biblical teaching on forgiveness within the context of ancient Jewish culture, Dr. Leah Coulter dispels the notion that forgiveness is a one-way street. She explains the true depth of forgiveness and the freedom that results in a genuine heart of repentance. With personal stories and other examples, she gives readers a pathway to repentance and forgiveness, as well as showing them how to find healing and justice when they have been wronged by someone who has not repented.

Leah Coulter helps us rediscover the power of repentance and forgiveness. She opens oblivious eyes to see the obvious. Like all enduring contributions, she is recovering a vital perspective we have lost, and making discoveries we desperately need. She recovers a two-dimensional theological world view in addressing the dynamics of forgiveness; she uncovers things that most writers hint at in footnotes or suggest in tentative conclusions.

This is a book that must be read, meditated upon, and tested in practice by counselors, pastors, lay leaders and every Christian seeking to go beyond platitude to discover the power of Jesus teachings on the good news of reconciling our tortured relationships.

--David W. Augsburger
Professor of Pastoral Care and Counseling, Fuller Theological Seminary

#2

Childhood sexual abuse is a devastating crime and a sin against its victim. Leah's dissertation addresses the spiritual repercussions of childhood sexual abuse and offers hope to Christian women struggling to find God and healing in the midst of their pain.

JEWISH-BASED: Simon Wiesenthal - The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness

While imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp, Wiesenthal was taken one day from his work detail to the bedside of a dying SS man. Haunted by the crimes in which he'd participated, the soldier wanted to confess to--& obtain absolution from--a Jew. Faced with the choice between compassion & justice, silence & truth, Wiesenthal said nothing. But even years after the war had ended, he wondered: Had he done the right thing? What would you have done in his place?

In this important book, 53 distinguished men & women respond to Wiesenthal's questions. They are theologians, political leaders, writers, jurists, psychiatrists, human rights activists, Holocaust survivors & victims of attempted genocides in Bosnia, Cambodia, China & Tibet. Their responses, as varied as their experiences of the world, remind us that Wiesenthal's questions are not limited to events of the past. Often surprising, always thought provoking, The Sunflower will challenge you to define your beliefs about justice, compassion & responsibility.

[AzulOscuro]

Thank you a lot of you for the participation in the thread.
I know to forgive is healing. Pretty much all Religions put the stress on it. It’s a way to help the person who has been harm to look forward.
It’s kind of relief. I’ve experienced it. But, it’s needed time to go through this progress, at least, for me. I’m always talking from what I’m experiencing, ok?
I want to give myself time.

And I do agree with you @SprinkL3, it’s different to forget and to forgive. The fact that you are able to forgive someone doesn’t mean that you go on near this person. Sometimes, it’s meaningless and unhealthy.

I need time. I know that the best is to forgive but I can’t do it now.

[sarcgeo]

Azul,

My mother had a tremendous impact on my life. I lost her over 11 years ago. While she was in a coma, I whispered in her ear that I forgave her for all the damage she did to me. Yet, to this day, I cannot say if I forgot the pain. I do not know how to forgive and for me my anger has melted many friendships I have had. My anger even caused my divorce.

I have yet to understand why I cannot trust people and why I still suffer, after whispering the forgiveness in mother's ear.

--Sarc

[AzulOscuro]

Guess you have empathy and that’s why you felt concerned about your mother’s situation in a state of coma. But, it’s not easy to forgive. You want it, for her and your own but sometimes it’s not easy at all.

I see forgiveness as a supreme state of acceptation and understanding. Somehow, you passed the page and go ahead. When a person is able to overcome and accept a deep damage without any intervention on the part of the offender? I guess it has to do a lot with the state you are yourself in. How emotionally strong you feel.

I find meaningful the phrase: I forgive but I don’t forget. Because when you don’t have a retribution or any repair from the offender, all you have is to forgive. Only for your own well-being. Nothing else is.

[sanityThruLight]

I don't forgive or forget.

My wife told me that "resentment is like drinking poison hoping it will kill the other person".

But I don't have resentment. I just cut people out of my life. Little things I can forgive, like if someone said something off-hand that offended me, but a deliberate act to harm me in anyway, physically, mentally or emotionally deserve no room in this short life. There are only so many people I can care about and I am very selective about who those people are.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

Guess you have empathy and that’s why you felt concerned about your mother’s situation in a state of coma. But, it’s not easy to forgive. You want it, for her and your own but sometimes it’s not easy at all.

I see forgiveness as a supreme state of acceptation and understanding. Somehow, you passed the page and go ahead. When a person is able to overcome and accept a deep damage without any intervention on the part of the offender? I guess it has to do a lot with the state you are yourself in. How emotionally strong you feel.

I find meaningful the phrase: I forgive but I don’t forget. Because when you don’t have a retribution or any repair from the offender, all you have is to forgive. Only for your own well-being. Nothing else is.

[Pjblueeyes]

Originally Posted by SprinkL3

That's a good question. It could be a philosophical one.

Some would say that "unconditional love" is forgiving indefinitely.

Others would say that repentance is required in order to forgive, and therefore the answer to your question would be once.

Still, others, would say that the answer lies with how many degrees of forgiveness there are. For example, some may only begin to "forgive" by not wishing revenge on a person per se, but rather accountability and justice, including restorative justice - a sort of hopeful prayer that the person who did the wrong will be the one to instigate restorative justice. Then the next level of forgiveness would be to hear the person who did the wrong out, and then to sit with their answers and their asking for forgiveness a while - that is, until you are ready, or until you know that what they said was genuine. Sometimes retribution is required beforehand as well. Then the next level - regardless of whether or not the person is remorseful or not - is to forgive one small area at a time, first by reasoning with a higher power or some other philosophy about releasing the wrongs done to you to the wind, a fire, the ocean, or the earth - by some ritual that you allow to let go of the pain one small area at a time, without negating the lessons learned from that experience, and without negating that forgiveness does not mean that you're a continued doormat or that you are obligated to restore any relationships.

Forgiveness is how you define it. It's not a religious act per se, unless you want it to be.

And in some cases, some people are just not capable or ready to forgive in this lifetime. Perhaps they have cognitive delays, or perhaps they are too harmed to be able to forgive. In other cases, people may choose to never forgive, and so the answer in these instances would be zero.

Forgiveness is a great topic to address here. Some therapists will use that in therapy, but others will not. It depends on how "forgiveness" is defined.

I used to think in my relationship, When is it enough.....I always thought or answered never: until I just caught my wife cheating after 21 years. Not in any place to speculate on forgiveness .

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by Pjblueeyes

I used to think in my relationship, When is it enough.....I always thought or answered never: until I just caught my wife cheating after 21 years. Not in any place to speculate on forgiveness .

@Pjblueeyes - I'm so sorry your wife cheated on you! That's betrayal trauma! Most marriages don't even last that long, but that's such a long time to be involved with someone who then cheats on you. There's no excuse for that, IMHO. But then again, I've never been married. I have always thought that it is best to express when things aren't working and to see if it is worth salvaging the relationship. It's also traumatic to go through a breakup without any infidelity, but when cheating is involved, it turns into a form of betrayal.

I can understand your struggle with forgiveness.

[eightlttlkitties]

I wish I had an answer to this! Seems I keep forgiving my husband’s infidelity. So he never really suffers the consequence of his actions.

[Mendingmysoul]

I may forgive my abuser,if she comes clean agrees she did what she did.I do not even need an apology from her.All it takes for her is to just validate my experiences and my suffering. A couple of times I tried that in a subtle way.Not those incidents for which there are no witnesses( She was smart enough to abuse in sneaky ways while no one else was watching).There are some incidents where others were present and they know something happened but they know it differently. So I tried to get her to acknowledge those.She blatantly denied and said my memory is playing tricks on me.So she will never give me a closure....can't forgive her.There was a lot of anger and resentment seething in me.I have processed and calmed down a bit.There is a constant sadness and grief now.It may take a lifetime to heal.I will not be able to forgive or forget .

[sarahsweets]

I will forgive as many times as it takes me
To heal. Imo forgiveness is for the forgiver not the abuser or perpetrator.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eskielover]

I forgive, but forgiving is for me, not them. Seriously if I have to continually forgive someone, I distance myself from them because I don't want to be around people I continually have to forgive

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I forgive, but forgiving is for me, not them. Seriously if I have to continually forgive someone, I distance myself from them because I don't want to be around people I continually have to forgive

I can’t say any other thing than Amen! 😀

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

I may forgive my abuser,if she comes clean agrees she did what she did.I do not even need an apology from her.All it takes for her is to just validate my experiences and my suffering. A couple of times I tried that in a subtle way.Not those incidents for which there are no witnesses( She was smart enough to abuse in sneaky ways while no one else was watching).There are some incidents where others were present and they know something happened but they know it differently. So I tried to get her to acknowledge those.She blatantly denied and said my memory is playing tricks on me.So she will never give me a closure....can't forgive her.There was a lot of anger and resentment seething in me.I have processed and calmed down a bit.There is a constant sadness and grief now.It may take a lifetime to heal.I will not be able to forgive or forget .

The fact that the person has empathy enough to accept (s)he hurt you and apologise helps a lot to grieve and overcome the situation, always the offender offer a genuine apology. It some kind show the person is ready to rectify and we can begin to build from that.
I know it’s said forgiveness is more for ourselves and I agree it’s sane for us but I don’t find easy at all. I think it requires a long process of first, accepting the situation and secondly, try to understand why the other person behaved in the way (s)he did it.

[eskielover]

I think it requires a long process of first, accepting the situation and secondly, try to understand why the other person behaved in the way (s)he did it.

Accepting the situation doesn't mean you have to agree with or even think it was ok.....sometimes "accepting" just means you acknowledge to yourself that something happened exactly as you experienced it. Honestly some evil people we will NEVER understand why the other person behaved in the way they did. Most times when people like that tell you something it is either an excuse or a lie & just creates more confusion. Each situation has to be analyzed for what it is.

I have lots of situations in the first half of my life I will never REALLY know why the people behaved the way they did. Some of that just takes "radical acceptance" that it was what it was. Many of those people are no longer alive. The one who is keeps doing stupid things that effect my life from 2100 miles away. I forgive but still take action to protect myself against the stupid financial crap he causes. Some just gets put in the hands of lawyers because nothing I can actually do.

There is no "one size fits all" answer to this or "one size fits all" solution for dealing with it.

My daughter experienced some tough stuff in our bad marriage. I was finally able to let her know I was sorry & understood after getting out of the bad marriage & analyzing it. She was also able to see & understand both sides & still be ok with both of us. His family hated me for walking out on him but my daughter now understands why I had to do what I did with that....but many times that opportunity doesn't happen to learn the "why"

[Mendingmysoul]

I understand forgiveness is for the forgiver. In my opinion it is not a decision to make ,it has to come naturally.It all depends on the duration and intensity of the hurt.It also depends on how close the perp is to the victim.One cannot just wake up from sleep one fine morning and forgive someone.After accepting that the experiences are real and it was abuse,the painful process of trying to heal begins.Its like layers of an onion.I just scratched the skin.More to peel .Maybe one day forgiveness comes naturally to me.I tried to know why...why the abuse happened? I couldn't find any reason. It's a mystery. What has happened with me, I will never be able to wrap my head around it all