[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Why do I keep reaching out to a father that has kept drifting further n further from me emotionally for 29yrs? Am I really that dense or do I just like torturing myself that much? Even the simple things - telling him how much I love him n knowing he won't be able to say it back, writing him a letter n knowing I will never get a response, calling him on the phone and just hearing simple one word responses for 5min before he "has to go" or sending him a facebook message I know he will never read- bring me to tears n leave me feeling crushed - but yet, there are times I feel a need to - n so I do. He is the only parent I have left n technically I am his only blood related child - yet he has a better relationship with my half sister n my 2 step sisters. The only thing I ever did that I guess you could say "hurt" him was becoming pregnant at 17 n moving out right after I had my child at age 18 because my pregnancy too much turmoil. I am now 41 and I ended up having to give that child up for adoption because of things he did - so we both have reason to be hurt but I want to just be father n daughter again. Am I really such a bad person? Am I really just so ignorant I can't get it through my head? Why can't I turn off my love for him as he did for me? Why do I continue on this way?

[EnglishDave]

Why?

Because they leave an emptiness inside us that we feel can only be filled by the affirmation they have denied us for years.

I had the same non-relationship with my father right from childhood. Nothing I achieved was ever good enough and I was always compared to others. Later, the few strained phone calls between us were just as you describe.

The only cure, apparently, is Therapy. I never got that far. I am sorry I can offer nothing more, I spent the whole of my father's life seeking his approval and all I got was a genetic predisposition for Cancer.

Sorry.

Dave.

[Georgia Bridge]

I don't know for sure why, but I do know it has left me both empty and full of tears.
For me, in part I suppose, it is because i can't seem to replace the brief moments in time that I did feel loved with the truth.
I don't understand that kind of truth, but it does run deep and it does not change.
I am not a blood relation of his though, but he has been my 'dad' since I was very young.
I did eventually give up and remove myself from that relationship, but it has never stopped hurting. I've been in therapy for many years, but that particular pain has never changed.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

I have been in counseling on n off for many years - the answers they give me: "you will always hurt over that, nothing you can do - move on" or "that was a ling time ago - get over it"

Wounds like that are like open wounds that just fester waiting for the next thing to hit it...and remind you its still there.

I just don't understand it - I can remember how it felt to be loved by him, to feel his arms around me hugging me n know he would be there for me. I can remember playing as a kid with him n helping him do things - I can remember his laugh n smile. I remember the security when I heard him say "I love you." Yet, now - that's all gone - I don't get any of it, n I have no idea why ... it hurts, hurts bad

[Mountainbard]

You are definitely not a bad person. The answers you've gotten through counseling--- well I would have no respect for nor confidence in them. My older sister got pregnant at 17 and my dad never forgave her. He never forgave me for being born, either, and it took me a very long time to understand why. I finally came to understand that my dad's closed-off behavior was a result of his own experiences... and he never sought counseling or any kind of help. I'm not trying to make excuses for your dad. It may be though that he can't "get over" what happened so many years ago. My dad died decades ago, but if I had the chance, I would ask him "why do you treat me the way you do?" I don't know what kind of answer I would've gotten, but I would've loved the opportunity to ask the question.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

The thing is - I understand he closed off his heart because of the loss of my mom when I was 12 - what I don't understand is why he has a better relationship with the others than he does me - n always has... And thank you for saying I am not a bad person

[James2128]

First of all you're not a bad person in the slightest, you're one of the kindest people I've met, don't think that about yourself

Maybe he's distanced himself because the thought of you reminds him of your mother. It's quite a strange situation really, I don't have contact with my dad either however I'm glad because I dislike him after what he did to my mum.

From comparing our situations I'd say that with your mum passing its only natural to want a connection with your dad, if I was in the same position as you are I would desperately want to have a relationship with him. Having only one parent must be quite hard, especially when the one you do have is acting the way your dad is.

Whats you're current living situation like now? Do you have any kids? Despite hating my dad I still have an emptiness left inside of me, its hard to replace the hole that a parent leaves. Even though I don't have kids yet, I have a very good feeling about trying to be there for my kids if I do have some or just being there for people close to me in general.

I don't think you're ignorant or anything at all, you're reacting to this situation just how I and I imagine many people would

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Thank you for validating my feelings n saying I m not ignorant or bad.

My current living situation: I live with my ex-husband, we have no kids n will not. The only child I have ever had is the son I gave up for adoption 23yrs ago-I have recently found him on facebook but can't make contact no matter how hard I try. I have 3 dogs.

My sister only talks to me occasionally through facebook n my stepsisters won't talk to me at all or even friend me on facebook, my stepmom talks to me just long enough to hand my dad the phone - I told you how long my dad talks to me, he has me friended on facebook but refuses to talk to me or look at my messages.

[James2128]

Sure thing

Oh right I can see why you feel the way you do then. Did you grow up with your sister or step sisters for very long or were you a bit distant?

I would definitely say its not down to you, from what I've gathered you're a very friendly and good hearted person so I can't imagine them having many negative thoughts about you. Perhaps though there's a negative connotation they have linked to you, perhaps your mother for example?

Do you have many close friends in addition to your ex-husband and dogs? To me family isn't necessarily about blood. Dogs are great additions to the family because of their empathy, I have two dogs and they comfort me a lot. I often consider my best friend to be like my brother, if you have people close to you, you could see them filling family positions too. For example a friend being like a sibling to you. If I were you that's what I would do, try to really solidify any existing relationships with friends or if you don't have many, try and make new ones and act as you would with your family, with them.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

I grew up with mom, dad n my sister til i was 12. Then just me, my sister n dad from 12-13. Then just me and dad from 13-14. Then me dad, step mom n 2 step sister from 14-18. I have no real life friends n trust nobody here so prefer it that way. I have friends on facebook. As far as my step sisters they wete actually jealous that my mom died, said that was better because their mom n dad divorced (even tho they got to visit their dad) n their mom agreed with them.

Originally Posted by EnglishDave

Because they leave an emptiness inside us that we feel can only be filled by the affirmation they have denied us for years.

I had the same non-relationship with my father right from childhood. Nothing I achieved was ever good enough and I was always compared to others. Later, the few strained phone calls between us were just as you describe.

That sums up my relationship with my father.

We never "clicked". I tried many times, he never did.

It was like he felt ashamed of me, he wouldn't take me anywhere with him, and when he had to, it was very awkward for me because he kind of avoided introducing me as his son.

Ever since I started understanding words, he would constantly make comparissons between me and the sons of his friends, always pointing out how much more smarter they were, how I looked and acted lazy and never showed interest for anything, etc...

To be fair though, when I became a teenager he tried to establish a father-son relationship, but I suppose he might've got bored with that and gave up pretty quickly and besides, all the damage was done.

It's been nearly 9 years since I've left my home country, and I spoke to him on the phone maybe twice during this time. Not that he contacted me, though; it was me who called him. And I cannot remember when was the last time.

Today I understand he probably also struggled with his mental health, but still...

It hurts, but at this stage I know I'll have to live with it.

[EnglishDave]

I agree with Mountainbard that your Therapists have given terrible advice when they should have been helping you work through this. I would not trust that sort again. Length of time without resolution increases suffering, as you well know.

I think James may have a point, as much as anyone can analyse the actions of a stranger third-hand. Perhaps the withdrawal of love is tied to the memories you invoke of the loss of your mum. There really is NO excuse for this, no perceived disappointment should be strong enough for a parent to treat their offspring (of any age) with emotional detatchment when love was there at the start.

You are obviously the one making all the effort to connect as a family at every level. With what you say about your Steps, I wonder if they are worth any effort at all. To be jealous of a death and to have that re-inforced is odd, to be polite. I cannot say how you could reach your dad, other than asking bluntly - if you feel strong enough - why he is so distant. Perhaps a letter would be the last resort.

As for your son, I do hope you are one day able to connect with him, for both your sakes.

Dave.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

I have tried writing him twice - asking him outright a few times what I did and never got any responses. I remember my stepmom once sat me down when I was 16 n said "i know they sometimes don't treat you well but you have to understand, you are lucky - your mom died, their dad lives with another woman in another house." I said "they get to see their dad, I can't see my mom n my dad lives with another woman in another house too." She said "but at least your dad lives with you, theirs doesn't " and with that she got up n left.

I keep hoping my son n I will connect too but that really doesn't help me atm, it just hurts that we haven't.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

I grew up with mom, dad n my sister til i was 12. Then just me, my sister n dad from 12-13. Then just me and dad from 13-14. Then me dad, step mom n 2 step sister from 14-18. I have no real life friends n trust nobody here so prefer it that way. I have friends on facebook. As far as my step sisters they wete actually jealous that my mom died, said that was better because their mom n dad divorced (even tho they got to visit their dad) n their mom agreed with them.

I am very sorry for your pain. It is so difficult when we want love and a close relationship with family members and they do not reciprocate. It is such a deep, unresolved pain. The reasons why your father treats you the way he does could be something subconscious on his part. It would be nice if he were a little more enlightened, but obviously he is not. He doesn't seem to really have a clue. Parents are not supposed to have favorites but the truth is, they do. I was not my mother or my father's favorite. My mother treated my sisters-in-law more like daughters than she did me. I never found out why, exactly. It is something that haunts you. My parents are now both dead. It is up to me to undo the damage they caused by playing favorites. It is very destructive, even after they are gone as some siblings will get more inheritance, act superior etc. All I can say is you are not alone. The more people you talk to about this the more you will find other people who have had similar toxic situations. In truth, not many families are nurturing, and more than not they tend to be toxic. Love who deserves to be loved, and try to forgive those who can't love you whole-heartedly-- but really --- they aren't deserving -- because of causing you so much pain. Let go, (easier said than done) maybe a little bit at a time...and know you are worthy of all the love in the world.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I am very sorry for your pain. It is so difficult when we want love and a close relationship with family members and they do not reciprocate. It is such a deep, unresolved pain. The reasons why your father treats you the way he does could be something subconscious on his part. It would be nice if he were a little more enlightened, but obviously he is not. He doesn't seem to really have a clue. Parents are not supposed to have favorites but the truth is, they do. I was not my mother or my father's favorite. My mother treated my sisters-in-law more like daughters than she did me. I never found out why, exactly. It is something that haunts you. My parents are now both dead. It is up to me to undo the damage they caused by playing favorites. It is very destructive, even after they are gone as some siblings will get more inheritance, act superior etc. All I can say is you are not alone. The more people you talk to about this the more you will find other people who have had similar toxic situations. In truth, not many families are nurturing, and more than not they tend to be toxic. Love who deserves to be loved, and try to forgive those who can't love you whole-heartedly-- but really --- they aren't deserving -- because of causing you so much pain. Let go, (easier said than done) maybe a little bit at a time...and know you are worthy of all the love in the world.

Thank you for all you have said . I have been told many times to just let them go - even my sister (who is trying to rebuild a relationship with me) has told me to let my dad just do whatever it is he is going to do. I never considered he might have favorites - maybe that is what it is, I don't know. I know to many that explanation would seem painful n unfair - but to me, it would be better than thinking he simply doesn't love me cuz I took the love of his life away (I blamed myself for my mom's death n that was never worked on in counseling-I have since reasoned with myself I was not the cause but at times I still have that sense of blame n I always believe my dad believes that way n despises me for it).

[James2128]

Hmm if thats the case I would say try to find something that could help you keep your mind busy or find something/someone to care about. I'm sorry if I'm not helping an awful lot, we have very different lives so far and I'm only 19 so not the wisest person yet hope my support helps to some degree though

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by James2128

Hmm if thats the case I would say try to find something that could help you keep your mind busy or find something/someone to care about. I'm sorry if I'm not helping an awful lot, we have very different lives so far and I'm only 19 so not the wisest person yet hope my support helps to some degree though

Just the fact that you listen n care enough to try to help - helps - even if the advice does not help (which I am not saying it does not - just saying in the worst case scenario, if none of it ever helped) - you still help! I think you are giving very good advice, truth be told . I don't have a lot to keep my mind busy - but that is something I do try to do, I just messed up the other day when I tried to send a message to my dad on Veteran's Day.

[EnglishDave]

How could you possibly be to blame for the passing of your mum when you were but a child yourself? That your father may think that, even subconsciously, and treat you so harshly for that reason is beyond the pale. I can assure you that you were not to blame, just as children are never to blame for parent's divorce.

I can offer no solution as to how to try to modify your father's behaviour, I wrecked a relationship, sold everything and bought a business with mine after not talking for 8 years in a desperate attempt for approval. Outcome: a spell as an in-patient in a Psychiatric Unit because he drove me so far down. The business disintegrated, he walked away with everything, I was left with nothing, just more broken.

We can chase dreams of approval, but if the lines of communication are not open, we are unlikely to make headway.

I had little contact with my father after these events until his death. He has even made me feel guilty posthumously for leaving things unresolved.

I am terrible at taking my own advice, but try to set yourself an achievable target - say, a few days - where you will totally immerse yourself with your dogs and your life without attempting any contact whatsoever. Blank that part of your life out of your mind with distractions as much as you possibly can. Give yourself a break, be kind to yourself.

Dave

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by EnglishDave

How could you possibly be to blame for the passing of your mum when you were but a child yourself? That your father may think that, even subconsciously, and treat you so harshly for that reason is beyond the pale. I can assure you that you were not to blame, just as children are never to blame for parent's divorce.

I can offer no solution as to how to try to modify your father's behaviour, I wrecked a relationship, sold everything and bought a business with mine after not talking for 8 years in a desperate attempt for approval. Outcome: a spell as an in-patient in a Psychiatric Unit because he drove me so far down. The business disintegrated, he walked away with everything, I was left with nothing, just more broken.

We can chase dreams of approval, but if the lines of communication are not open, we are unlikely to make headway.

I had little contact with my father after these events until his death. He has even made me feel guilty posthumously for leaving things unresolved.

I am terrible at taking my own advice, but try to set yourself an achievable target - say, a few days - where you will totally immerse yourself with your dogs and your life without attempting any contact whatsoever. Blank that part of your life out of your mind with distractions as much as you possibly can. Give yourself a break, be kind to yourself.

Dave

The reasons for blame of my mother's death are because she was a heart patient the whole time I knew her (from my birth til her death) and wasn't supposed to eat spicy foods. She wanted to go out to eat that night and we went to Pizza Hut. They had a new pizza and were promoting it - nacho pizza. I begged for the pizza, she said no, I kept begging - it went on til she finally gave in - but she didn't have enough money to pay for two pizzas so she ate it too. Some of our neighbors showed up n joined us while we were eating which was a surprise - dad went up to pay for the pizza n we went out to go to the car. Mom started dragging her feet n the neighbors caught her (one was a nurse so started performing CPR on her) me n their son ran in to tell my dad what was going on and to call for an ambulance. Long story short - it took the ambulance an hour to get there and an hour to get to the hospital simply hc traffic wpuld not move out of the way (it should have only been a ten minute trip) and mom was DOA and unable to be resuscitated. So - because I begged for the spicy pizza and she ate it, and immediately died thereafter - that is the relation.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Thank you for all you have said . I have been told many times to just let them go - even my sister (who is trying to rebuild a relationship with me) has told me to let my dad just do whatever it is he is going to do. I never considered he might have favorites - maybe that is what it is, I don't know. I know to many that explanation would seem painful n unfair - but to me, it would be better than thinking he simply doesn't love me cuz I took the love of his life away (I blamed myself for my mom's death n that was never worked on in counseling-I have since reasoned with myself I was not the cause but at times I still have that sense of blame n I always believe my dad believes that way n despises me for it).

I have read that sometimes one child in a family system gets the job of holding onto family shame. It isn't their shame. This is difficult to consider because it isn't rational or logical. But your child-self was not rational but rather a feeling being. I actually think I am suggesting this because maybe I was given that job in my family. If you become the designated "shame-holder" then people are going to kind of detach from you. The point is...realizing that you were maybe given a role you didn't deserve, and you accepted it because you were just a feeling-child and without firm boundaries. Maybe try to let go of trying to find a rational explanation. There is definitely some kind of barrier that is holding back your father's affection. I would say feel the emotions but realize these are the emotions of a child. As an adult you can reframe and revitalize your life-story. As always, Crypts, you inspire me to do the same!

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I have read that sometimes one child in a family system gets the job of holding onto family shame. It isn't their shame. This is difficult to consider because it isn't rational or logical. But your child-self was not rational but rather a feeling being. I actually think I am suggesting this because maybe I was given that job in my family. If you become the designated "shame-holder" then people are going to kind of detach from you. The point is...realizing that you were maybe given a role you didn't deserve, and you accepted it because you were just a feeling-child and without firm boundaries. Maybe try to let go of trying to find a rational explanation. There is definitely some kind of barrier that is holding back your father's affection. I would say feel the emotions but realize these are the emotions of a child. As an adult you can reframe and revitalize your life-story. As always, Crypts, you inspire me to do the same!

You have no idea how much these words mean to me nor how much sense they make! The only problem is - I don't think it's ever going to be something I will be able to let go of - I remember too much.

I remember how it felt inside my heart to be loved by him.

I remember sitting on his shoulders when he would carry me out in the ocean just beyond the wave break so I could feel myself rise and fall as the waves passed by.

I remember playing outside with him.

I remember him teaching me how to ride bike.

I remember "helping" him fix the car.

I remember sitting on his knee when he would rock me.

I remember going to family picnics.

I remember his smile and his laugh.

I remember the love in his eyes when he looked at me.

I remember the security I felt just knowing he was there.

I remember how it felt being hugged by him.

I remember my dad...and I miss him, it's like a death and yet he's still alive.

[EnglishDave]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

The reasons for blame of my mother's death are because she was a heart patient the whole time I knew her (from my birth til her death) and wasn't supposed to eat spicy foods. She wanted to go out to eat that night and we went to Pizza Hut. They had a new pizza and were promoting it - nacho pizza. I begged for the pizza, she said no, I kept begging - it went on til she finally gave in - but she didn't have enough money to pay for two pizzas so she ate it too. Some of our neighbors showed up n joined us while we were eating which was a surprise - dad went up to pay for the pizza n we went out to go to the car. Mom started dragging her feet n the neighbors caught her (one was a nurse so started performing CPR on her) me n their son ran in to tell my dad what was going on and to call for an ambulance. Long story short - it took the ambulance an hour to get there and an hour to get to the hospital simply hc traffic wpuld not move out of the way (it should have only been a ten minute trip) and mom was DOA and unable to be resuscitated. So - because I begged for the spicy pizza and she ate it, and immediately died thereafter - that is the relation.

I am so sorry this happened to you and can understand how this could be mentally scarring, but let me offer you this…

In 2008 I had a heart attack which left me with Heart Failure, Coronary Ischaemia and Microvascular Disease. In '14 I almost died twice undergoing a routine Angiogram, then a drug induced Cardiac Stress Test. Both times I became Brady Hypotensive, where the heart rate crashes exceedingly low and needs medical intervention to bring it back.

I have discussed diet with my Cardiologist, GP and Nurses and they all agree that the one thing heart patients must cut down is salt. The only time spicy food has been mentioned was in relation to discomfort from gas and indigestion - along with pulses. I actually have Neurological issues which are aggravated by capsaicin, so I have to watch my intake for that reason.

There are studies that show that Cultures which eat spicy foods have a lower incidence of heart disease and stroke.

For your peace of mind, if you can ever learn to forgive yourself, I would suggest that the choice of an adult's overall diet (if that were even a factor), by including things like salt-laden pizza, would be more detrimental than a few slices of one particular topping. And the parents of a family are in ultimate charge of the family diet. Ignoring what your father may feel and project onto you, you must try to see this sad event as a co-incidence.

Again, I am sorry you had to witness such tragedy at such a young age.

Dave.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by EnglishDave

I am so sorry this happened to you and can understand how this could be mentally scarring, but let me offer you this…

In 2008 I had a heart attack which left me with Heart Failure, Coronary Ischaemia and Microvascular Disease. In '14 I almost died twice undergoing a routine Angiogram, then a drug induced Cardiac Stress Test. Both times I became Brady Hypotensive, where the heart rate crashes exceedingly low and needs medical intervention to bring it back.

I have discussed diet with my Cardiologist, GP and Nurses and they all agree that the one thing heart patients must cut down is salt. The only time spicy food has been mentioned was in relation to discomfort from gas and indigestion - along with pulses. I actually have Neurological issues which are aggravated by capsaicin, so I have to watch my intake for that reason.

There are studies that show that Cultures which eat spicy foods have a lower incidence of heart disease and stroke.

For your peace of mind, if you can ever learn to forgive yourself, I would suggest that the choice of an adult's overall diet (if that were even a factor), by including things like salt-laden pizza, would be more detrimental than a few slices of one particular topping. And the parents of a family are in ultimate charge of the family diet. Ignoring what your father may feel and project onto you, you must try to see this sad event as a co-incidence.

Again, I am sorry you had to witness such tragedy at such a young age.

Dave.

Thank you for your kind words - most of the CPR i did not witness because they rushed me to the side off the building out of site of everything-but after about 45min of being alone I could take it no more and ran by her side. Everybody else says this part did not happen but I swear it is true - when I knelt by her side she opened her eyes, and said "I'm sorry, I have to go now. I love you." and with that - she was gone.

So, yes I saw but I didn't too - depends on how you view it. My mom had had open heart surgery and had a replacement valve put in and told if she ever had another heart attack again - it would be her last. She should not have taken the chance and she knew it - but she did it for love of me.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

You have no idea how much these words mean to me nor how much sense they make! The only problem is - I don't think it's ever going to be something I will be able to let go of - I remember too much.

I remember how it felt inside my heart to be loved by him.

I remember sitting on his shoulders when he would carry me out in the ocean just beyond the wave break so I could feel myself rise and fall as the waves passed by.

I remember playing outside with him.

I remember him teaching me how to ride bike.

I remember "helping" him fix the car.

I remember sitting on his knee when he would rock me.

I remember going to family picnics.

I remember his smile and his laugh.

I remember the love in his eyes when he looked at me.

I remember the security I felt just knowing he was there.

I remember how it felt being hugged by him.

I remember my dad...and I miss him, it's like a death and yet he's still alive.

I wonder if it helped you to write this. It is a really beautiful kindness towards your childhood memories. Do you journal?

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Used to, but no - not anymore

And thank you for saying they were beautiful memories.