I just got in from therapy, and I'm feeling confused and shaken up.

I do know that I dissociate. I grew up in what felt like a situation I might not survive, and I probably started doing it at a young age. I'm aware of it when it happens, although I don't quite feel like I can control it. I just kind of "check out" and it's hard to get back to the present and get grounded. It used to happen ALL THE TIME in therapy, but lately, I've been able to stay present the whole time, and that's been really nice.

I've had two episodes in the past couple of months where I completely forget everything about my life. It happened in the evening both times. Once when I was really stressed and once when I was relaxed. The first time, I couldn't remember anything - places I had lived, the births of my kids, what I did that day. My mind was empty. I was aware of it and trying to remember something, anything at all, but I couldn't. My husband came in eventually and started talking to me about something and I was slowly able to come back to reality. It happened again last week - same thing - this feeling of emptiness in my mind. I laid down in bed to try to read and looked at my arm and it didn't look like my arm. At all. I stared at it for a while and then finally got up and tried (successfully) to ground myself.

Tonight, I was talking to T about how safe I've felt with him lately, and I told him that there's this piece of me that keeps saying to me "what the hell are you doing?!" - and he started grilling me - does that piece of me look like something, sound like something, how old is he/she? I felt really uncomfortable and that's when I just checked out. He said he could feel the change in me - that I pulled back. He said my breathing changed, and even the muscles in my face looked different. The whole thing was upsetting and I wanted nothing more than to get back to the grounded, safe place. We worked together and I think we kind of brought me back there, but not totally. I still feel kind of different.

Once I got grounded, I told him that the questions he was asking me were making me really uncomfortable. He was proud of me for being able to tell him right then, in session, and I guess that was good.

Really, I feel like there is this "young me" who feels really safe and playful with T. Who feels loved and okay. It was almost like she left today and "suspicious me" took her place.

I have no diagnosis, other than PTSD. But I feel really really weird right now. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I guess I'm looking for help figuring out what's going on with me.

[___Shadow___]

So sorry you feel so shaken up!
Thing is to know what is happening to you and why would be nice too. To just check out is scary less you know why you did, I mean less scary. It does feel weird to be kinda in middle of two personalities, feels really empty ( at least for me it does).
I also look at my arm and know if I'm all there or half me, or all gone cause my arm will look skinny/boney or very chubby.
I've been struggling all day to get grounded and finally when I went out for a drive with my kids we had a few laughs, got into cute trouble and I felt like ME, but before than I was lost, looked different, even my eye color changes, my skin tone, and of course behavior. My daughter tells me that if I'm stuck in a Mad Me, My eyes are grey.
I think it's so good if your younger self want to see T, mine just cries still. I think you should try to trust as much as you can, your T sounds perfect!
All the best to YOU.

Thanks, Shadow.

I guess what I'm wondering is, does this sound DID to anyone? Or is this just some sort of "inner child" thing? When people talk about their "inner child" do they mean it literally??

Here's a little more to explain some more of what's going on.

It's like there's this young part of me. She's more likable. It's okay to take care of her. It's okay for ME to take care of her. It's not her fault that things happened. She's fun to be with. She plays guitar hero and plays with the kids. She totally trusts T to take care of her. She's not afraid of him.

Then there's the rest of me. The part that isn't deserving of being loved. The part that has to be in charge. The part that doesn't believe T is for real. That part that's scared she's bothering T. The part that wants to binge and purge and drink. The ugly part.

That me is the me that I've been since I was really little. The grown up me. I don't like this me.

I like the Little Me that I found in therapy. It's like when I was a kid and I had to start being a grown up, that me got left behind and never grew up. I like spending time with that me, because she gets nurtured - by T and by me - and then I feel nurtured. She's the most vulnerable me. She can only come out if it's really safe. I wish she was there in session today, but maybe she couldn't be there because of what I was wearing (a dress, instead of jeans and T shirt like I usually wear)..

It doesn't sound like DID to me, however, I am no expert, not even close. It does sound like Psychogenic (Dissociative) Amnesia, though.

Situation-specific amnesia is a type of dissociative amnesia occurs as a result of a severely stressful event, as in post-traumatic stress disorder.

Psychogenic amnesia is a psychiatric disorder characterized by a sudden loss of memory covering a variable period of time, an absence of underlying brain disease and an awareness by the patient that a memory disturbance is present. LINK to more info

Also, have you done any reading on fragmented ego states? LINK to info from another thread

There's also DDNOS.
LINK to more info

Hope you can find some info that helps! It can be scary.

[wanttoheal]

((((((((((((((earthmama)))))))))))))

It does not sound like DID to me either, but the dissociation spectrum is continuous and one can be anywhere on the line. I think it's great that you trust T and feel safe enough with him that you are able to share a very vulnerable part of yourself.

Orange has some great links to check out. Hopefully they will help you figure out what's going on.

How wonderful that you are able to nurture yourself and that T is as well. It sounds like you are making some awesome progress. Good luck with everything.

the dissociation spectrum is continuous and one can be anywhere on the line.

Excellent point wantto. Here's what it looks like.

Thanks, orangeblossom and wanttoheal!

The dissociative spectrum is really interesting. I had no idea PTSD was on there. Looks like I have some reading to do

I really appreciate your help, a lot.

I wish they would hurry up and put Complex PTSD in the DSM. It would be a big help on, not only explaining it to the people who are suffering with it, but to those who treat them.

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdo...plex_ptsd.html

[___Shadow___]

Just wonderingg, could someone say why you wouldn't think earthmama id DID? Like often trying to help with explaining text is a great way to decribe what and the why, but if you where to be able to quote some of what she's says, say, and then say why this isn't DID i think that might help too, or no? just my mind dosn't work in the text way really and is hard to follow sorry.

Hi Shadow,

What stuck out to me in earthmama's post was that she is very aware of her "little one" as opposed to a therapist telling her that a "little one" (little ones, angry ones, different sex etc) stepped forward with a completely different appearance, and earthmomma having no idea that happened or that three days had gone by without her knowledge.

earthmama does dissociate and checks out so this is where it gets tricky.

Again, I just want to state that we are not experts/professionals so when we said we don't think it sounds like DID, that was just our opinion based on our own experiences and knowledge.

That said, in my own personal opinion, a younger ego state (which, to me, sounds like what earthmama was talking about) is different from an alter who steps in and takes complete control after being triggered by something that reminds her/him of the horrific trauma they endured as young children.

During those horrendous experiences the only way they could survive/deal with it was to "split" off the traumatic events and "hand over" the reins to "someone else."

Example, MaryJane might have created someone named Daisy during the times when the father was sexually abusing her at age four.

Daisy would be the one to endure it so MaryJane could survive. If Alice in Wonderland was on the TV in the background during it, chances are anything Alice in Wonderland related would trigger MaryJane and Daisy would step forth to spare MaryJane from experiencing the reality of what happened back then.

Daisy (alter) holds those despicable memories and steps forth when triggered as a completely different person/personality, not just a smaller version.

Argh! Someone help me out here, lol. I hope this answered your question.

Edited to add trigger icon.

I did want to add this quote from another post about fragmented ego states.

Her best defense may be to maintain two distinct ego systems, one of which deals as best she can with father the rapist, the other with everyday living. The defense of dissociation permits the child to avoid thinking about the abuse so she can have as normal a life as possible.

When this sort of childhood starts early and goes on a long time, the ego states may accumulate very different memories, emotions, and behaviors. They may even have different names for themselves: one name representing the angry, hurt, sexually aware part, and the other designating the innocent child in her public persona.

A child growing up in a very sick family system faces a large number of insoluble problems, and dissociation may become the preferred way to deal with virtually every conflict the child faces. Thus, a system of dissociated ego states may arise, one of which does well in school, another is very athletic, a third feels a great deal of rage, a fourth can function sexually, and the fifth goes to church and prays a lot - thus fully expressing all the family values in one person without having to resolve any of the conflicts that divide the family.

[___Shadow___]

ahhh, very cool orange blossom
i get it, thank you
i just think sometime it would be easier to see the why not, rather than the text saying what did is, you did a great job explaining!
Sometimes tho, we know wehave a little self, without T, in search of what wronge tho, but ya i understand.

Sometimes tho, we know wehave a little self, without T, in search of what wronge

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree.

Hey there

Thanks for asking for clarification, shadow. And thanks for clarifying, orange blossom

This is the first time I've been in therapy - I've been there 8 months now. I'm 38 and did have a very trauma-filled childhood....just sort of pushed it aside and moved on, until I couldn't keep going anymore without some help (8 months ago).

I forget MUCH of what happens in T. I know I go, but I can't remember the sessions quite often. So, sometimes, T and I will have a review at the next session, and he'll tell me how it went - and then, often, hearing it, I have this vague memory of "oh yeah, that's how it was" - sort of hazy and distant. The arm thing (feeling totally not in my own head and then looking at my arm and seeing an arm that wasn't mine) was weird. I didn't tell T, but it's not the first time it's happened. The first time I really remember it happening, I was probably 15 or so, away at a camp (away from my family!). It's only happened a few times that I can remember since then.

I often realize that I don't know what the date is - as in, I don't know what SEASON it is. I'll be standing in the shower, and I don't know if it's summer, spring, winter, fall. It's confusing. I've mentioned it to other people for years, because I figured it happened to everyone, and people just look at me like "?!?!". Honestly, I don't know what's normal and what's not - for real. Like, everything I've typed up to this point really MIGHT be completely run of the mill stuff that happens to other people, or it might not. I honestly have no idea!

So, I guess there's a little more info. I do know that when T started asking me details at our last session - kind of out of nowhere, it felt like, but I have no idea at all what we were discussing beforehand - it really freaked me out, and I just checked out and couldn't feel safe again during that session. Although we've e-mailed since then, and I feel better. I love T

So, anyhow, there's some more details. Honestly, it's a little scary to think about - to realize that everything I thought was normal, might not be. Or is it?

((( earthmama )))

It's scary, isn't it. I hope I didn't make you feel that you're not believed or anything like that. It was not my intent at all. It's just that a lot of people have a hard time understanding DD vs DID and my response was mainly based from that aspect.

The most common dx for childhood trauma survivors is PTSD-DDNOS. The DDNOS is thrown on there because there is dissociation going on but not enough criteria fits for a specific dx. Sometimes it's a bit of all the dissociative disorders all wrapped up in one big blob.

Maybe you can print this thread out and bring it to T and ask his opinion?

I'm sure someone else who knows more will stop in and help us out here.

And don't worry about the normal part. A favorite saying of mine is...

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Orange_Blossom said:

I hope I didn't make you feel that you're not believed or anything like that. It was not my intent at all.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

((((((((((((((((orange blossom)))))))))))))))))) No, I didn't feel like that at all. I appreciate you listening to me! I don't really think I'm DID - just started wondering what was "normal" and what wasn't.

((( earthmama )))

Do most people "check out" to the extent that we do? No. But checking out is a normal response from people like us who deal with dissociative disorders. So I declare that we are in fact, normal.

[Kiya]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
earthmama said:
Thanks, orangeblossom and wanttoheal!

The dissociative spectrum is really interesting. I had no idea PTSD was on there.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Earthmama - I didn't know that either! I've not seen a grid like that and makes me again wonder where I am on it.

I too have differences when i am not me - in my body - my height, eyes, face change. I have to adjust the seat and mirror in my car some days because I am shorter or taller. Likewise, with my mom, our heights change; somedays i am taller or shorter than her - sometimes the same height. Somedays (like today) I have times where my body parts look odd - like my mouth today is not real - i saw it floating in this flech colored blob, moving of it's on accord. I had to stop looking at it. Somtimes my arms appear different, my face.... my hands and toes do not appear real.

Sometimes i have take overs where different ages with different names control the body. The more i became aware of it the more it seemed to me it was happening (but it is hard to see if one does not pay attention to one's own self!).

So, i dunno any more. Keep working with t, wherever the journey leads you.... that's the important part.
Kiya

[Kiya]

Also , what about being DID but co-conscious? This has been confusing me and T's for several years. Some say I'm not. Some say I am DID, but co-conscious.
I explained it to t (in a really simple way) by the abstract painting she has on her wall.
I am going to include an example in here.


So - for example, if I am in the big dark pink square, I know nothing of the light blue square - it is too far away. Some days I may know of the little light pink square. If i then move into the orange square, i know all about orange, but not pink or blue. If i move in to the blue square, i know know the information in blude - but not orange or pink. Make any sense? Yet it is all a whole... one picture. But I move through the parts of it. Then when I know info is missing because someone asks, I have to move back to that square to pick it up - but then lose what ever i had in the other square. So then i have to make notes as i move through them and gain the info in the different parts. That to me is co-consciousness... it probably looks different for others. Now sometimes, certain parts will take over due to a trigger, and I am stuck (say in the little pink square) until i can get grounded enough to have more awareness (or more squares). When I am co-conscious, i may or may not have knoweldge of those other parts at the time.
Say, sometimes I am in that outer rim of grey that connects a lot of squares - then i have more info and can hear the needs of the others.
make any sense??
Kiya

[wanttoheal]

((((((((((((((Earthmama))))))))))))))) I'm so glad you can come here and ask questions. We're all learning here. Orange has such good information. I only know from the DID side and even then only what goes on for me. I'm learning through, through T, about dissociation in general and how it affects people. I'm learning here too, through what other people experience.

So much I thought was normal. It's a wild ride finding out that things aren't normal. For me, it rocked my whole world and my entire belief system (it still does as I learn more and become more aware). Once T was talking about her childhood and my first thought was wow, she had a weird childhood! Turns out, she had a pretty normal one lol.

Sometimes it's hard for me to know what people are talking about because my head uses different words and phrases for things. I've always had names for things that go on for me; I just didn't have the right names lol .

I agree with Orange. Checking out is a normal response for people like us, so we are in fact normal.

We're all experiencing so many different things. For me, the reason I didn't think DID was because of the barrier part. And again, that's only because of my experience and I can only go by that, so take what I say with a grain of salt and ask T too.

T said the barriers in my head are very thick. I like the picture Kiya has here. My brain has developed another way to separate (I mean the way I see it) but this really explains about the distance thing, which I have as well.

I'm amnesiac and so I never know when I've switched while I've done it. I'm getting stronger though and so sometimes I am able to feel myself leaving, but it's still far and few in between. I really long for the co-conscious thing and I'm really scared to death of it at the same time.

That said, a couple of times, things happened that I was kind of aware of, like what you said about having a vague feeling of having been there. And twice now, I sat in my dark theater and watched. I heard talking kind of like the teacher in Charlie Brown I guess, but I could not make out the words coming out of my mouth or the mouth of those around me. It only lasted probably a second or two and then the next thing I know, I was someplace else, but it was a start.

Sometimes I hear more chattering in my head than other times. Sometimes there is crying that drives me bonkers (like I'm not already bonkers lol). T said at those times, the barriers between parts are thinner.

My T explained something to me that helped me understand parts. I don't know if it will make sense to anyone else, but I'm willing to put it out there, in hopes it will help someone else.

T said everyone has parts of themselves. T said she has a playful part, a serious part, a T part, a mom part, etc. The difference is the barriers and they can be varying in their thickness. My T's barriers are pretty much nonexistent (everyone dissociates to some degree). She knows what she is doing most of the time and has control of whether or not she decides to be playful or serious, etc. My barriers are on the other extreme. I never know what's going on, on the other side of the barriers (outside of those couple times). When I get triggered, another part of the brain comes forward from behind the barrier and I go behind the barrier. But there are different thickness of that barrier, depending on how the brain reacted and dealt with experiences in the life of that person. When I hear the crying or the chanting of things, T has said those barriers are thinner at that time. Our goal is to make those barriers go away.

I think there's probably a one or two dot difference in a line between PTSD-DDNOS and DID if you look at the line Orange had of where everything is. There are a couple of dots in difference between DDNOS and PTSD. Of course in each category, there are levels as well. Such as some people with DID might have 4 or 5 parts and some might have upwards of 20+. I think it's the same with the other side of the scale.

It seems to me, from listening to my T and hearing experiences from other people and comparing them to my experiences, that everyone does have parts. Whereas Kiya might have co-conscious to a certain degree, Earthmama's barriers might be more or less than that, same with Orange.

I think we all hold a common bond here in that we all dissociate to some degree. We've all obviously gone through some yucky stuff to get to here. For that, I'm so sorry that any of us have that in common. I'm not so sure the name of what is going on for us matters as much as the understanding we have for what might be going on for us and others and the compassion to accept and believe that what people say is their truth.

I'm so glad we have each other here to glean information and understanding from.

This is probably my longest post (in the whole wide world ) so I'm going to shut up now.

I love that the DD forum is opening up and we are able to discuss more and more. I've stuck around, just waiting for this. Thanks guys

(((((((((((((((((((( orangeblossom)))))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((kiya )))))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((wanttoheal))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you ALL for sharing so much about how it is for you.

I never realized at all how much I "check out" until I started T. Sitting there in that room for that hour twice a week - it's a lot of time to sort of spend quietly with ME, you know?

I guess I'm not totally sure what's going on. So, I feel a little scared, but also okay, because it feels good to have some place to talk about this stuff. I'm so grateful to have people to talk to - can't imagine who could talk to me about this in real life!

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful replies. Gives me A LOT to think about.

[___Shadow___]

Kiya
so much what i feel like with the picture sept not so mant squares.
mine is a sideways picture maybe a 12 by 32 with a dark, lighter, and very soft splash of paint and inbetween is a combo of tho's different colors cause often feel like two people at once. But i'd have to add a Sharp Line somewhere with a little color and a @ shape towards the end in a corner cause sometimes I'm unknowing.
Ahhh k, I'll paint it one day and show you cause this isn't as vivid as Kiya's but sure got me thinking, wow, THank you
After reading your post I could understand, A picture works for me!!! ALWAYS
Yup, I paint for a living, heehee
Thank you Thank you all of you, BIG HUGS
Got to go cause in a really fun mood, have to play with KIDS and make supper, and have a way better night than last, YIPPY
* runs from screen~ to hug kids*( by the way I have 5 wonderful children)~~~oH NO, I CAN'T LEAVE I'm so greatful for this site and all of you.... I left dots cause there is so much more to say...
OMG , phew MAJOR mood change eh, oops

[Kiya]

"T said everyone has parts of themselves. T said she has a playful part, a serious part, a T part, a mom part, etc. The difference is the barriers and they can be varying in their thickness." - yeah W2H my t says the same often!!

Shadow - I am glad the picture worked for you. Funny - the picture is not mine. I've never painted my inner life in that manner. It was an example (but a really dang good one, I was thinking with the slash marks in it that if i had painted it, would have represented the SI for me), but not even the same picture in t's office. I had to find one with squares to make the reference about what I told t.

Honestly - often i wish i *were not* co-conscious because it would be easier to move between things i had to do if there were the work part, the driver, the cook, the student. Rather i float back and forth wondering why i can't get things done! Always greener on the other side....