[thereisnospoon]

First of all I'm not native english so please don't judge me by my bad narrating skills. Unfortunately I could not find any decent local community where I could write to.

So without further ado my post is about seeking advice on how to give up on women and the reason for this I will try to explain further on.

All my life I've been raised to believe how not to give up when "going on a journey" fueled by the all known holliwoodian cliches on how "not to give up", "keep going" and all of that. I do understand that this is necessarily into infusing confidence to youngsters but after a certain age this no more is for encouragement but is simply delusional. I'm 27 years old and throughout my life I've had the privilege of being alongside some very smart people that guided and encouraged me throughout my school and college providing support in rough times. As with very hard work and sacrifice I've managed to finish my engineering studies with a rather good grade and get a job in what I always wanted. Throughout my study years I did not think or felt the need to socialize much and all I wanted was to become the best at what I did. As time progressed I realized more and more that what I was hoping for to become was simply not achievable with my body or rather mind. No matter how much time/work and how much help I would get it was simply for me impossible to master what I wanted as I saw some people around do without that much effort. So after some truly dedicated years I finally decided to lower the learning a bit because it clearly did not lead to where I was hoping to arrive. That's one of the things in life, you don't know a path is a dead end until you've reached there, especially when everyone teaches you to not believe discouragements, hence not giving up. So now, contempt with my slightly above mediocre academical achievements, with more time on my hands, I decided and also felt the need to get a girlfriend although this thought has been in my primal subconscious somewhere, hence my drive to regularly train my physical body for most of my life. So I've decided to pay more attention to signs received from the opposite sex for hooking up and having a relationship. What I found was then something even more frustrating then my previous disclosure with learning, which is the most baffling paradox I've ever discovered. Not only that if I tried hard I was getting slow results, I was getting the opposite, negative results. Apparently showing that you genuine like someone generates disgust, indignation and suprisement like it is some kind of alien thing to be doing. So after having bashed in my childish beliefs, I started "engineeringly" assessing the situation so I can improve upon. I started researching fashion trends and learn from people how to dress "appropriately" according to my style and environment. I began doing different diets and train much harder than before to get in the best shape of my life. I started watching, listening, taking notes and test best attraction, PUA, seduction training videos that fitted my style. So after applying all this for 6 months I realized that my rate of success was still super low (1/25) and this was not even getting laid but just kiss/dance and maybe have a phone number. So I've suddenly realized all of this insane work, waaay over the usual Joes, going though hell with all of these rejections and for what? Just to cripple my already shredded ego I had left from all my study failures ?
So I've finally decided to give up on women as being the most productive thing to do for my life. Also although my purpose is not to incite female flamers, but rather express my disgust to the way life is, I feel to say that you women are more cruel, self-important, disrespectful, honor less creatures than any man will ever be. Of course you might say in your low-pitch voice "but we are not all the same". Well I think that deep down you all are and if somewhere along your life someone put a bit of sense into you, that will eventually fade away with age.
So my humble request is, if some of you guys have some advice on how to wipe off this nature's sick implemented need in the man's head for women, please do share. I without doubt now believe is not worth the work put since not-even-close-to-even work is given back from the opposite, since women are not born that way. (interesting to find out about Briffault Law as a support on my reasoning)
Please share some techniques if some of you feel the same and experienced this. I've already deleted all my exaggerated porn clips from my PC and all female figures that could draw me into "wishful thinking" ever again. It's all meant to deceive like the donkey with the carrot on the stick in front of him. If the secret of getting women is to deceive, lie, "be witty" and practically hide your feelings than the pleasure you receive from after being successful, I found it to be directly proportional to the sacrifice, work and self-disgust of achieving this success, which yields 0 in the end, thereby resulting only in a loss of time.
Anyway thanks for reading this, I surely appreciate these kinds of forums and people behind it who have the patience listening to random strangers like me. Cheers!

Hello thereisnospoon: Welcome to PsychCentral. PC is a great place to gain support, learn strategies for handling mental health concerns, & to make internet friends. There are many wonderfully supportive members here on PsychCentral.

I'm sorry you have come to such sad conclusions with regard to women. Unfortunately, since I'm old, & married, I can't be of much help to you in terms of how to attract women nowadays, or how to forget about them either, for that matter. Hopefully some younger men may see your post & reply. I will mention that if you do not receive many other replies, one reason may be the length of your post. My experience has been that longer posts tend to attract fewer replies. So you may want to consider posting one or more new Threads containing your primary concerns. One additional forum you may want to take a look at would be:

Relationships & Communication - Forums at Psych Central

All new members' first 5 posts are reviewed before they become available for viewing by the community. So there may be a delay between the time that you submit your first 5 posts & the point at which they become available for viewing. However, once these initial posts have been reviewed & approved, your posts will become available for viewing as soon as you click the submit button.

There are quite a few forums in which you will be able to post. If you have not already done so, be sure to look through the listing in the Forum Index:

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Me too, man - I gave up on women years ago. I'm sorry you've had to do the same thing.

I'm sorry to say ... for some of us, it is the right choice.

This world has zero tolerance or acceptance for people who differ from the norm ... people like us. It's kind of sad.

You can forget about women and move on ... initially, it will be depressing and frustrating, but eventually, you'll just be numb like me. You just have to really convince yourself that you're never going to get with a woman. That's what I successfully did.

One thing that helped me a lot is to distract myself ... I'm a fitness addict. Like you, I train very hard. It keeps me healthy and distracted from evil thoughts like being with a woman. Also, like you, I wish I could just get rid of the irrational desire for women. Look up "asexual people".

Of course, I hope you're wrong about yourself and that you do find someone But if not, know that giving up completely is possible, and that there is nothing wrong with it ... for some, it really is the right choice.

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, unfortunately there will still be that little voice somewhere far away saying "you can still do it, don't give up" which I'm now trying to shove in permanently. And then there is the family that stresses me ever more often to find someone, which makes me nuts. Already punched a concrete column and cracked open my metacarpian in 2 some time ago and I do fear for my well-being to not happen again.
As for fitness well, I did do train as complementary to my learning before, only got more serious in latest period to just get more ripped for the purpose of becoming more attractive for women. Nowadays I just can't find the power to learn or train anymore, just returned to introducing bread and soda to my diet, which by the way, puts fat on me like it never did before, 2 kg in 2 days...
Thanks for the replies again, hopefully I'll balance myself in a few days as the brain usually does overnight. Although every time the bad feelings linger for more days than before, and the good days last so much less, lack of hope tends to do this unfortunately.

[Webgoji]

It sounds like there's a ton more going on here than just some shallow women you've met. Which you have.

By your own admission, you work hard, struggle and training. You're pushing and will get pushed back. Then you develop resentment and that resentment shows causing a further rift.

I think "giving up" right now really is the best idea. You need to take a step back, quit trying so hard and see women for who they are; each an individual with their own flaws and quips. No different than any of us.

Let the bitterness and anger and resentment go. Take time to breathe and then instead of trying hard with this method or researching that trend. Be you, learn to be comfortable with yourself and then get to know women before using a shotgun approach. The best partners are good friends so I would start there and let relationships grow from that friendship.

[Ford Puma]

I do not see myself giving up on women myself. Sure they can be hard to work out sometimes but thats part of who woman are. I cant offer any useful words for the OP. The only thing been people would be very surprised by what can happen tomorrow.
Just this year for maybe the first time ever I cough 2 different women on different days miles apart checking me out when i walked down the street. That at my age 38 I never experienced before. The were coy about it but i noticed. That gave my ego a timely boost.

[thereisnospoon]

Today started eating fast-food heavy again, I don't care, hopefully I'll get better until I go back to work, otherwise I can't do nothing. I feel like just giving all up and become a garbage man... Feeling nausea, like throwing up... Can't even watch movies that have one happy scene in them, only thing I can listen to is classical music, everything else is just about sex, money, love or loathing. I hate it now.

[ptangptang]

I empathise mate. Seeing couples holding hands, in relationships ,laughing and kissing makes me feel bad too. Why can't i have that. It's not womens fault. It's just that society has told them what a man is and they are programmed to reject any man that doesn't match up to the " tall, dark, handsome" stereotype
. Don't give up on them though. After they've found out that a lot of these stereotypical males aren't actually nice people they look again at us non sterotypical males and give us a chance.
Ps... a tip. Please use paragraphs or break up the text if you want peoiple to read your posts. Just makes it easier. Good luck

[Mike_J]

Hmmm... giving up on women, seems rather extreme.

Women can be good friends, are often coworkers, or even your boss. I'm all about giving up on this person or that person for various reasons regardless of gender.

Giving up on trying to find a relationship well that is also an OK thing to do if you feel it's best for you (not that I would ever recommend anyone giving up on that part of their life).

A female friend is rather unlikely to become a "girlfriend" but can still be a good friend, and just speaking for myself I can use all the friends I can get.

And if you really want to "give up on women" I guess that is your own choice, but I do hope that you never give up on yourself.

Originally Posted by Mike_J

And if you really want to "give up on women" I guess that is your own choice, but I do hope that you never give up on yourself.

Amen, brother !!!

[thereisnospoon]

The thing I hate the most is that, when it comes to men vs women in dating I found that the man has to deal with all the trash-talk and rejections, the woman not having to do anything.

I prepare physically and prepare what to say and how to say it, I do research, just in the end so she can say a blunt "No". Then I review what I did wrong and try to improve, stress if I'm ugly or if I was too rude (which I'm not, I'm quite the opposite), hell is like a job.

I fell like a buffoon trying to please the almighty queen, which then she can throw to the dogs at her every whim.

Why can't it be like men are? Hell if some girl came to me and she was cute, even a 5, from my perspective I'll jump write in just for the experience of open conversation and sex. This is where the feeling of non-equality comes to me. It's like they are at a faar higher bargaining point then we are.

We're seen like we are the horny gruesome apes with no brains and obsessed with sex and they are those higher entities rising above our primitive plain of existence, unscathed, pure and all that crap.

The things I see many of my friends of mine do just fawning over women, is just discussing. Where is the pride of being equal ? Hell if you are the more beautiful sex you don't have to be a ***** about it, is just how men are born, uglier, and I'm not saying I'm ugly, I'm quite good looking and that's what drives me nuts. I have potential, but I'm not the way they expect men to be, vulgar, pushy, demanding, alpha-like, head-on without thinking. I usually hate these guys because I feel so mad that being respectful, humble of oneself, non-intrusive is seen as weakness, non-attractiveness, but hell that's the way I am, tried to change but can't, that's how was raised-built.

Let the women come to me for a change. I don't care to go and get my ego bashed to smithereens. Why do I have to prove that I'm better than I am? I believe in equality more than anything else (hence the energy conservation law). Let them make the first step, I don't care to go clown around like some stupid bird trying to impress the female. We are past that, but they seem not to be evolved that much from the reptilian brain it seems...

Originally Posted by thereisnospoon

First of all I'm not native english so please don't judge me by my bad narrating skills. Unfortunately I could not find any decent local community where I could write to.

So without further ado my post is about seeking advice on how to give up on women and the reason for this I will try to explain further on.

All my life I've been raised to believe how not to give up when "going on a journey" fueled by the all known holliwoodian cliches on how "not to give up", "keep going" and all of that. I do understand that this is necessarily into infusing confidence to youngsters but after a certain age this no more is for encouragement but is simply delusional. I'm 27 years old and throughout my life I've had the privilege of being alongside some very smart people that guided and encouraged me throughout my school and college providing support in rough times. As with very hard work and sacrifice I've managed to finish my engineering studies with a rather good grade and get a job in what I always wanted. Throughout my study years I did not think or felt the need to socialize much and all I wanted was to become the best at what I did. As time progressed I realized more and more that what I was hoping for to become was simply not achievable with my body or rather mind. No matter how much time/work and how much help I would get it was simply for me impossible to master what I wanted as I saw some people around do without that much effort. So after some truly dedicated years I finally decided to lower the learning a bit because it clearly did not lead to where I was hoping to arrive. That's one of the things in life, you don't know a path is a dead end until you've reached there, especially when everyone teaches you to not believe discouragements, hence not giving up. So now, contempt with my slightly above mediocre academical achievements, with more time on my hands, I decided and also felt the need to get a girlfriend although this thought has been in my primal subconscious somewhere, hence my drive to regularly train my physical body for most of my life. So I've decided to pay more attention to signs received from the opposite sex for hooking up and having a relationship. What I found was then something even more frustrating then my previous disclosure with learning, which is the most baffling paradox I've ever discovered. Not only that if I tried hard I was getting slow results, I was getting the opposite, negative results. Apparently showing that you genuine like someone generates disgust, indignation and suprisement like it is some kind of alien thing to be doing. So after having bashed in my childish beliefs, I started "engineeringly" assessing the situation so I can improve upon. I started researching fashion trends and learn from people how to dress "appropriately" according to my style and environment. I began doing different diets and train much harder than before to get in the best shape of my life. I started watching, listening, taking notes and test best attraction, PUA, seduction training videos that fitted my style. So after applying all this for 6 months I realized that my rate of success was still super low (1/25) and this was not even getting laid but just kiss/dance and maybe have a phone number. So I've suddenly realized all of this insane work, waaay over the usual Joes, going though hell with all of these rejections and for what? Just to cripple my already shredded ego I had left from all my study failures ?
So I've finally decided to give up on women as being the most productive thing to do for my life. Also although my purpose is not to incite female flamers, but rather express my disgust to the way life is, I feel to say that you women are more cruel, self-important, disrespectful, honor less creatures than any man will ever be. Of course you might say in your low-pitch voice "but we are not all the same". Well I think that deep down you all are and if somewhere along your life someone put a bit of sense into you, that will eventually fade away with age.
So my humble request is, if some of you guys have some advice on how to wipe off this nature's sick implemented need in the man's head for women, please do share. I without doubt now believe is not worth the work put since not-even-close-to-even work is given back from the opposite, since women are not born that way. (interesting to find out about Briffault Law as a support on my reasoning)
Please share some techniques if some of you feel the same and experienced this. I've already deleted all my exaggerated porn clips from my PC and all female figures that could draw me into "wishful thinking" ever again. It's all meant to deceive like the donkey with the carrot on the stick in front of him. If the secret of getting women is to deceive, lie, "be witty" and practically hide your feelings than the pleasure you receive from after being successful, I found it to be directly proportional to the sacrifice, work and self-disgust of achieving this success, which yields 0 in the end, thereby resulting only in a loss of time.
Anyway thanks for reading this, I surely appreciate these kinds of forums and people behind it who have the patience listening to random strangers like me. Cheers!

I don't know what to say really, I don't know of any other way of giving up on the need for women other than removing the testes I guess, as I suppose they are providing the hormones driving the need. But, I love mine and I can't imagine doing that.

You say that you are quite smart, you worked out (I assume you have a great body) and you did/do work so you have reasonable money. Those are normally quite attractive qualities to women in general, so the only thing I can think of then, is that maybe you have some problem like mine.

You are an engineer (technical person) so you might have been suffering from autism or Asperger's or something like I do. It takes away all your natural social skills (that other men have) so that it becomes extremely hard to relate to other human beings. I have also not had a girlfriend my whole life and truth be told I don't know what to say to women even or even how to chat with them, and about what? Also I am fat and a student, so little money. They don't like that.

Women may not only go for rich guys and Hollywood looking guys, but they do expect any man to have a stable job and a good body I found. I have been fat my whole life. I've been addicted to sodas since I can remember, and anything with sugar in it. Also, even though I'm doing a PhD, I'm still just a student, with no stable job.

I'm sorry brother, I wish I didn't have to tell you this, but all women are basically materialistic to some degree. That's the only way to "measure" a person in general, as it is the most effective method. Usually, someone with a good job and a good body are seen as "normal" because it happens the most. I'm sure you know statistics, being an engineer, and it is just like the concept of a 95th percentile or a 75th percentile where most points fall in a range of accepted values/parameters.

The "norms" define our society (it's sad but true), and if you are an "outlier" you don't get chosen.

You have to make a giant leap of faith in your life if you're ever going to be happy with yourself. I know how miserable this makes a person, but you have to accept yourself, find out as much as you can about yourself, and then the hardest part - accept that there is nothing wrong with you! People (women) don't choose you because of their belief system. Same with me.

All we can do is do the things we do, like only we can do. I truly believe you are also a unique, gifted person, not normal like everyone else. People aren't going to understand you the first time. I did the same thing you did. I declared my deepest love for a girl I loved so very much, and she ignored me and rejected me. They just don't get it.

But, that is why I still dream to do something big, revolutionary, globally recognized. I don't do it for anyone else anymore either, I want to do it for me. And, I figure it like this - if a girl wants to join me on my voyage, she is more than welcome, if not - her loss.

[MrMisdiagnosis]

I think you are externalizing your problems. Giving up on women implies the problem is with women which is a common misconception. Rather you should work on yourself and values, perhaps you are attracted to the wrong type of women...

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

It is dangerous to expect too much of women - they are only people after all, and I think live their lives by slightly different emotional rules.

[berthegel]

I think some women have the same problem as some men , deep down for me personally , I just want someone to talk an have a laugh with, I'm pretty innocent , but I wouldn't go around trying to seduce women , seduction is for sex , and if start trying to learn seduction techniques , youll come across as false, maybe I'm nieve

[OR82]

This biggest problem most men I know run into, including myself, are that we are not the alpha jerk type of person. This is the problem with women. I meant I can dead lift 485 and back squat 405...that doesn't mean I'm going to act like a meat head but apparently that is what women want...which makez zero sense. Then they gripe to the good guy who listens about the jerk...HELLO!

Originally Posted by OR82

Proverbs 17:28 (NLT) - Even fools are thought wise when they keep silent; with their mouths shut, they seem intelligent.

That's how it's done basically, LOL. How do you think I've been faking intelligence all these years?

The weirdest thing for me is always, I can't understand how when a guy is a bit awkward or weird (like me for example) it is always glaringly obvious, and the women can pick up on it immediately.

With the ladies though, many of them have hidden mental issues and stuff and you would never tell, they look dead normal, just like the hottest girls. I sometimes wonder if most of these hot girls don't have narcissistic personality disorder or something. Sometimes I'm sitting in a mall or something and you just look at them walking past. Look hard, look past all the beauty and stuff, and then you see it - the fear. The need to conform to what "beauty" should look like. Even the fat girls, they don't miss out either, they also spend just as long on doing themselves up. Why do they dress up the way they do? Have you noticed how they all wear the same hairstyles? Or wear the same kind of clothes? Yeah sure, they all look different on first impressions, but are they really? In terms of style, they are essentially all wearing the same thing, and that thing is what has appeared in the latest People magazine or whatever the rubbish is called.

It's sad. Everyone looks up to people in Hollywood. Why would any person model themselves after those assholes? They are all classic NPD. They constantly break up, they chase fame and fortune, and they die at 34 from a drug OD.

At first it all seems rather innocent, doesn't it? I mean, so what, let the stars do what they want, it doesn't affect me. But, what I've come to realize is, other people who don't think like me cherish the ground these people walk on. These are the rolemodels. People with NPD are the rolemodels of society! And what happens? Narcissists breed narcissists. A narcissist feeds on others, in this case, the whole world basically. Is it then not possible that all the normal people who read and watch this crap are becoming the mirror narcissists?

Look at the ordinary people walking in the mall next time. Look at the women especially. Blur your eyes to eliminate their faces. Go to one of these magazines. Blur your eyes again. $50 says you see the exact same image staring back at you.

You ever wanted to know how Lucifer would look and act walking on earth? Look no further than Hollywood. Ironic, isn't it? Los Angeles - "city of angels".

Originally Posted by OR82

This biggest problem most men I know run into, including myself, are that we are not the alpha jerk type of person. This is the problem with women. I meant I can dead lift 485 and back squat 405...that doesn't mean I'm going to act like a meat head but apparently that is what women want...which makez zero sense. Then they gripe to the good guy who listens about the jerk...HELLO!

Are you well-built? So, even having a great body doesn't help, it's the personality?

It's seems the extroverted loud guys always get the most girls. It's kind of animal when you really think about it. It's like the lionesses going for the strongest lion in the pride, the alpha-male. One would think with humans it would be more complex than that, obviously not. Some things never go out with evolution it seems. Why are men still being judged on their capacity to be hunter-gatherers? LOL

[OR82]

Originally Posted by StbGuy

Are you well-built? So, even having a great body doesn't help, it's the personality?

It's seems the extroverted loud guys always get the most girls. It's kind of animal when you really think about it. It's like the lionesses going for the strongest lion in the pride, the alpha-male. One would think with humans it would be more complex than that, obviously not. Some things never go out with evolution it seems. Why are men still being judged on their capacity to be hunter-gatherers? LOL

Again, that is the problem isn't it? Judging based on some illusion. Extroversion has zero impact the character of a person...it just means they are loud and obnoxious.

Originally Posted by thereisnospoon

The thing I hate the most is that, when it comes to men vs women in dating I found that the man has to deal with all the trash-talk and rejections, the woman not having to do anything.

I know. The thing is, could you imagine how powerful and attractive you would be if you could somehow handle that with a smile, as if it never affected you? If you can "handle your business/problems" like a boss, I've heard that is a huge turn-on.